Heresy Thread

[Metamorph]

Yep, Reinhold Niebuhr was a Calvinist and that's all I needed to know, he was just the friendliest face of Calvinism. Martin Luther King Jr. used him as his theology, which is probably how Martin Luther King Jr. ended up getting assassinated. Nothing good ever comes from Calvinism, even Calvinism with the friendliest and most liberal face it can pull off. Calvinism is always worse than the Taliban even if it's not obvious. We all know Gandhi, the Dalai Lama, and Mother Teresa are terrible people, so it's really no surprise Martin Luther King Jr. probably was too.

[Metamorph]

The one major good thing about 16t is that it's the one place you can talk about Calvinism without Calvinists swarming you. Soviet psychological occultism? Yeah, Calvinists aren't coming here. Literally anywhere else, if you want to say something about Christianity, the Calvinists will probably swarm you and try to replace it with Calvinism because almost all of the really cerebral types of pastors etc. are Calvinists and they also actively pretend not to be Calvinists to try to infiltrate as many churches and other Christian communities as possible and preach Calvinism. This is basically what turned me off from Christianity for the longest time. I tend to think it was a good thing I was basically just a Nietzschean (though not a Satanist or even benignly a Muslim like End accused me of) because I've read some people think that Calvinism is basically the sin against the Holy Spirit, because in the Bible the sin against the Holy Spirit was officially attributing God's good to the Devil when the Pharisees knew better, and the Calvinists attribute Satan's evil to God. Just being some kind of pagan or actual heretic (not HERETIC!) is nowhere near as much of a problem based on my observations.

Lots of pagan and secular philosophies including Nietzscheanism have useful aspects and more harmless interpretations anyway, so I don't have a huge gripe with them. I mostly attribute all my major problems in life to listening to someone who I know is a Calvinist too much, since that's when they really happened, and not because of this forum or anything, even though I do think this forum is kind of low-quality and I hope the quality here either improves or everyone leaves. Being a tankie is bad and the foundational idea of socionics appears to be wrong. To all the people who think duality and ITR aren't foundational to socionics, Aushra Augustinavichiute's book was literally titled The Dual Nature of Man, the ITR is very foundational and you're not getting around that just because you got some other value out of socionics. To save socionics you either need to defend duality etc. from my criticism and others' criticisms of it, or come up with some coherent idea of socionics that doesn't involve it, which seems impossible due to the fact it's so foundational and once you take that out you're basically just left with Jung plus cybernetics which isn't really sufficient to give you the entire theory of socionics in anything resembling the form it exists.

[Metamorph]

Regarding Christianity, just read the Bible. I have largely come to the conclusion that it's basically incomprehensible other than from a narrative standpoint, and the narrative standpoint very much vindicates most of the more chill interpretations. There are some theologian types who seem OK and not all that harmful, but like 99% of theologian types are Calvinists so I'd recommend not starting with that. Most of theology just seems like people's opinions to be honest, unlike science and other kinds of fields. A lot of opinions that don't seem all that harmful aren't eternally-binding truths either, and even if they're not harmful in themselves, taking them as eternally-binding truths can be since it turns people off from the real thing in my opinion. They're also usually pretty boring.

[Metamorph]

But yeah. You might be thinking "Calvinism? Isn't that something from history class?" But Calvinism is alive and well and it's worse than the Taliban. Calvinism is like hypocrisy incarnate, and I think it's a priori impossible to have an ideology that's more hypocritical than Calvinism. Being on this site is making me think of the relationship between Calvinism and communism though, because both had a lot to do with the British Empire. It's not like all non-Calvinists are nice people who go to Heaven or anything, but Calvinism seems to shut the doors while you're alive and that isn't even true of Satanism, though I've heard of Calvinists hypothetically managing to change their minds, seemingly mostly because they didn't really understand what they were saying. The Catholic Church has to complain about modernism as if they had a problem with modern art or something even though that's just a homonym with a different origin, probably because complaining about Calvinism makes Protestantism seem way more valid, even though Calvinism is basically what Catholics think of as modernism ironically. Want to see people who think Christianity is just a political movement and deny the divinity of Jesus or that anything in the Bible actually literally happened? Look at even the most polite Calvinists like Niebuhr, never mind R. L. Sproul etc.

Someone like Billy Graham is also vaguely influenced by these people but also very explicitly not a Calvinist, he just seems to have liked their speeches like some people weirdly like Hı̇tler's speeches for the rhetoric even though they're against Nazism. This is probably the only place on the Internet you're going to hear the naked truth about Calvinism, because all the religious sites have Calvinists come in to lie about Calvinism and the only way you can have an accurate picture of it is if you have a really strong a priori grasp on logic and where they contradict themselves, or if you can basically just read their minds and get them to admit their beliefs by pretending to be one yourself or feigning ignorance, or you're good at logic and knowing their thoughts. This is way worse than what some people think taqiyyah stereotypically is in Islam, because there's literally no endpoint to it with how Calvinism is structured, while taqiyyah at least is mostly centered on self-preservation and might also try to get people to join Islam but they don't lie about literally everything all the time out of some absolutist belief in absolutism for the sake of absolutism.

Muslims just want to go to Jannah and have wine and virgins plus Muslims who have other interests like intellectualism or living in an anime or whatever assume that's also in Jannah and it's basically just hedonism even if it can be fairly sophisticated for many people and some degree of hedonism is fine anyway, but Calvinists don't even care if they go to Heaven because they think that going to Hell glorifies God more. It is the most absurd ideology anyone has ever come up with. Even Satanists at least just think Hell is like a seedy part of Las Vegas but with more fire and brimstone and the Devil will be their friend and give them some kind of title and magic powers in Hell for worshipping him, Calvinists believe in evil for the sake of evil basically because they think that's the only way God can truly be omnipotent. Calvinists, just like a lot of extremist Muslims and others, don't really believe they know they're going to Heaven anyway and keep showing all sorts of doubts despite the fact many people think it's possible to believe whatever you want without restrictions and that what you can and can't believe isn't limited by the structure of the act of believing, but Calvinists are way worse. So don't for one moment think Calvinism is just some grouchy old ideology you heard about in history class.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Someone like Billy Graham is also vaguely influenced by these people but also very explicitly not a Calvinist, he just seems to have liked their speeches like some people weirdly like Hı̇tler's speeches for the rhetoric even though they're against Nazism.

He grew up Presbyterian; speaking of which:

You might be thinking "Calvinism? Isn't that something from history class?"

Presbyterianism is the biggest branch of Calvinism, and it's still alive and well in our country.

[Metamorph]

He grew up Presbyterian; speaking of which:



Presbyterianism is the biggest branch of Calvinism, and it's still alive and well in our country.

Yeah, that might be relevant even if he disavowed Calvinism later. I think he spreads it inadvertently a lot, but I never looked into how he grew up and just tended to think he was spreading it accidentally by using R. L. Sproul etc. I do think it's possible to escape a Calvinist upbringing, but it largely seems like he didn't and that's a very bad thing. And yes, Presbyterianism is very alive and well, but still mostly seems like a tiny subset of all Calvinists, like they basically just see themselves as and act as the Brahmins of Calvinists and everyone else is the lower castes of Calvinists. The most absurd thing though is when they try to infiltrate the Methodists, which is what I suspect is really behind all the controversies in the Methodist church. Like oh yeah, let's try to change the one church that's really explicitly doctrinally Arminian to Calvinism just because most people don't know anything about John Wesley, Arminius, Calvinism, etc. or that Calvinism is basically the Taliban but worse.

This reminds me I do want to read the Handmaid's Tale but also try to avoid giving money to Margaret Atwood, whose hobby seems to be running around calling Trump supporters Nazis and other similar things. While that lends a little credence to the idea maybe Trump is helping out Nazism and also "Christian nationalism" (read: Calvinism) too much just with his narcissistic ego games, calling Trump and everyone who voted for him far-right when they don't think of themselves that way even if there might be a point is just going to alienate people, basically The North Wind and the Sun where they clutch their cloaks tighter but their cloak is Trump, not fix anything.

Even if Calvinism is very alive and well, most people probably don't really associate it with Presbyterians or anything else that's currently going on so much as they associate it with that time they read about the Church of England's internal politics and the Puritans settling America from their history classes. Of course luckily Arminianism spread outward since it eventually ended up dominating the Anglican church but most of the British colonies seem to have had conflicts involving Calvinism, and this seems to be a very neglected aspect of the history of the British Empire. Calvinism is even harder to properly research than all the John Dee occultist stuff, probably because occultists have things they want while Calvinists think everything is just an arbitrary action for the glory of God, basically the same kind of evaluation I made of Islam vs. Calvinism. I think Calvinists alone actually think there are no signs of salvation at all. Some Muslims think that the signs of salvation are actually being persecuted, same as many Christians and Jews, and pagans can have similar beliefs like saying you have to die in a war to go to Valhalla, but Calvinists just say there aren't any period which also seems pretty unique.

[Metamorph]

Satanists: We're going to worship Satan because Satan was the original rebel! Satan is a tragic hero who won his own kingdom! Hail Satan the goth icon and champion of the oppressed!
Satan: I want to exalt my throne above the Most High. Please stop calling me a tragic hero and an oppressed failure and convert to my one true religion, Calvinism, the way I intended, then maybe we can still all usurp God together!
Calvinists: What, we don't worship you, Satan!
Black Sabbath: Satan laughing spreads his wings!

[Metamorph]

@Tearsofaclown If you ever come back would you like to hear about how much of a Calvinist Martin Luther King Jr. was? And of course continue posting about William James and rap and kung fu everywhere.

Everyone else: Read that Chrysalids book I referenced in the first post on this thread if you want to understand a lot more things about the world even if my reasoning won't seem all that obvious to you until you do. I still can't believe that's the book 40k got "HERESY!" from, but people are all up in Dune's business, Elric Saga, and even A Canticle for Leibowitz, but they haven't even heard of The Chrysalids. The religious bigotry in it is also pretty Handmaid's Tale-esque even though I haven't read that book yet and probably pretty implicitly Calvinist since I'm under the impression Canada is nearly the same as the US in that regard as a former British colony.




Also makes the frequency with which all the D&D pickup games I used to occasionally play in having a bunch of telepaths seem way less weird. I never thought that was all that weird, that occurs in fantasy, but just having the telepath party running away from the BBEG is... very much accidentally recreating that book even if that's basically the one of those old highly-influential science fiction books that people haven't read unlike all the other ones I mentioned. Of course, out of all those books, besides being the most heavily relevant on just having psi and mutants (rather than spice which people consume to get abilities etc.) it's also basically explicitly anti-Calvinist in a way that should put it with The Handmaid's Tale, and a lot of the 40k players etc. seem to be pretty pro-Calvinist and completely missing the point of the media they like. Also kind of the anti-X-Men since the mutant military comes in and kills off the squad of norms that tries to keep them from emigrating and that's presented as a really good thing, though unbeknownst to Elon Musk, X-Men has actually changed on that over the years and decided to side with Magneto, which he doesn't know because he doesn't actually read it. All the better that the Calvinists don't know about our super secret special sci-fi book and even if they did they wouldn't understand it because of their conceptual blinders.

[Metamorph]

For all the lazy people of the world, human and otherwise since I'm not a bigot like Elon Musk: The chrysalids : Wyndham, John, 1903-1969 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

[Metamorph]

OK, having my one safe space where I can talk openly about the plague of Calvinism and we can all agree we don't like it and there isn't a single Calvinist here to come in and lie about Calvinism has been very helpful, I'm no longer all that irritated with 16t, despite the fact most of my recent time of not seeing the point of the site hasn't resulted in me wanting to end it anymore either. the16types.info: a legendary treasure for future generations since it was the one place people could talk openly about Calvinism without one or more Calvinists coming in to lie about Calvinism, rather than anything to do with its intended purpose.

Also, might as well link the Calvinist thread I made thanks to the earlier discussion with @Creep on this thread: Calvinism (the16types.info)

...It's only fitting that the Heresy Thread actually turned to talking about actual heresy (Calvinism, the real mother of all heresies, not "modernism" as if the problem were Picasso and the international style of architecture) instead of just me calling my opinions "HERESY!"

[Metamorph]

That being said, Pablo Picasso was definitely not an asshole just like love is definitely a bougie bourgeois construct.

[Metamorph]

Speaking of communism and Christianity:

Orwell’s debt to Christianity - Catholic Herald
George Orwell: Closet Anglican? – Covenant (livingchurch.org)

[Metamorph]

I am Birdbrain, nemesis of Elongated Muskrat! I know we have lots of artsy people around here, if anyone wants to make some kind of comic or cartoon or even just a story or image of Birdbrain vs. Elongated Muskrat, the worst superhero/villain fight ever, please do.

[Metamorph]

Meh, this site is just boring.

[Metamorph]

Photonic crystal - Wikipedia

Photonic crystals. 16t really doesn't like the Wikipedia video format.

[Metamorph]

Sodalite group minerals
Sodalite - Wikipedia



Sodalite Na8(Al6Si6O24)Cl2




Sodalite var. hackmanite dodecahedron from the Koksha Valley, Afghanistan






Afghanite (Na,K)₂₂Ca₁₀[Si₂₄Al₂₄O₉₆](SO₄)₆Cl₆




Lazurite (Na,Ca)8[(S,Cl,SO4,OH)2|(Al6Si6O24)] Ladjuar Medam (Lajur Madan; Lapis-lazuli Mine), Sar-e-Sang District, Koksha Valley (Kokscha; Kokcha), Badakhshan (Badakshan; Badahsan) Province, Afghanistan


The Taliban are sitting on $1 trillion worth of minerals the world desperately needs | CNN Business (It's mostly lithium and other rare earth elements, not big blue crystals, as much as I like looking at the sodalite group minerals from Afghanistan)

[Metamorph]

Sunstone (medieval) - Wikipedia

The sunstone (Icelandic: sólarsteinn) is a type of mineral attested in several 13th–14th-century written sources in Iceland, one of which describes its use to locate the Sun in a completely overcast sky. Sunstones are also mentioned in the inventories of several churches and one monastery in 14th–15th-century Iceland and Germany.
A theory exists that the sunstone had polarizing attributes and was used as a navigational instrument by seafarers in the Viking Age.^[1] A stone found in 2002 off Alderney, in the wreck of a 16th-century warship, may lend evidence of the existence of sunstones as navigational devices.^[2]

Two of the original medieval texts on the sunstone are allegorical. Hrafns saga Sveinbjarnarsonar contains a burst of purely allegorical material associated with Hrafn’s slaying. This involves a celestial vision with three highly cosmological knights, recalling the horsemen of the Apocalypse.^[6] It has been suggested^[10] that the horsemen of Hrafns saga contain allegorical allusions to the winter solstice and the four elements as an omen of Hrafn's death, where the sunstone also appears."Rauðúlfs þáttr", a tale of Saint Olav, and the only medieval source mentioning how the sunstone was used, is a thoroughly allegorical work.^[11] A round and rotating house visited by Olav has been interpreted as a model of the cosmos and the human soul,^[12] as well as a prefiguration of the Church.^[13] The intention of the author was to achieve an apotheosis of St. Olav, through placing him in the symbolic seat of Christ.^[11] The house belongs to the genre of "abodes of the sun," which seemed widespread in medieval literature.^[4] St. Olav used the sunstone to confirm the time reckoning skill of his host right after leaving this allegorical house. He held the sunstone up against the snowy and completely overcast sky and noted where light was emitted from it (the Icelandic words used do not make it clear whether the light was reflected by the stone, emitted by it or transmitted through it). It has been suggested^[10][14] that in "Rauðúlfs þáttr" the sunstone was used as a symbol of the Virgin, following a widespread tradition in which the virgin birth of Christ is compared with glass letting a ray of the sun through.^[15]
The allegories of the above-mentioned texts exploit the symbolic value of the sunstone, but the church and monastic inventories, however, show that something called sunstones did exist as physical objects in Iceland.^[16] The presence of the sunstone in "Rauðúlfs þáttr" may be entirely symbolic^[17] but its use is described in sufficient detail to show that the idea of using a stone to find the sun's position in overcast conditions was commonplace.^[10]

Birefringence - Wikipedia





Doubly refracted image as seen through a calcite crystal, seen through a rotating polarizing filter illustrating the opposite polarization states of the two images.



Comparison of positive and negative birefringence : In positive birefringence (figure 1), the ordinary ray (p-polarisation in this case w.r.t. magenta-coloured plane of incidence), perpendicular to optic axis A is the fast ray (F) while the extraordinary ray (s-polarisation in this case and parallel to optic axis A) is the slow ray (S). In negative birefringence (figure 2), it is the reverse.

[Metamorph]

Quantum entanglement visualized for the first time ever - Advanced Science News

[Metamorph]

I don't think you want to read about Hilbert spaces so I'm not going to be posting about that. I really wish people would actually read some of the things I've posted here but I get the impression people just can't understand it at all so I don't try to make them. I hope people can understand them someday in the future though.

[qaz00]

I don't think you want to read about Hilbert spaces so I'm not going to be posting about that. I really wish people would actually read some of the things I've posted here but I get the impression people just can't understand it at all so I don't try to make them. I hope people can understand them someday in the future though.

It's not about understanding, at least for me, it's about usability. You tend to post about things I don't have any interest in because I can't find any practical usage for them or even use them to support my analysis. Almost everything you post is too abstract, disconnected, random, cut off from applications, irrelevant or trivia-style spam. You're either an intellectually lazy ILE who fails to do anything creative with their interests as this requires focus and chooses to shitpost instead, or a nerd-wannabe SEI, who's interested in all these fancy theories and science, but lacks the kind of intellect required to understand what all those things are really about.

[Metamorph]

It's not about understanding, at least for me, it's about usability. You tend to post about things I don't have any interest in because I can't find any practical usage for them or even use them to support my analysis. Almost everything you post is too abstract, disconnected, random, cut off from applications, irrelevant or trivia-style spam. You're either an intellectually lazy ILE who fails to do anything creative with their interests as this requires focus and chooses to shitpost instead, or a nerd-wannabe SEI, who's interested in all these fancy theories and science, but lacks the kind of intellect required to understand what all those things are really about.

If you don't think bifringence is useful then that's on you. If you can't appreciate bifringence then you don't want to hear a biophysical description of psi either, even though this is 16t and people here are doing things like that all the time. You have to appreciate the little things before you can appreciate the big things.

[Metamorph]

None of you have done anything to earn my ideas except some of the people who've DMed me. This isn't some kind of publishing press. If you want my ideas get a life and go to work, then maybe you can encounter them there. This site isn't even a good source for socionics, which I don't think is a valid theory anyway even though it has some interesting ideas.

[Metamorph]

You are just not interested in my ideas period here for the most part. You are only interested in socionics, gossip, and posting random songs. I don't post my good ones here but if you can't be interested in bifringence you can't be interested in my good ideas either. You also didn't think the posthumanism thing is good which shows a lack of taste on your part. Plus this is just not the place to post good ideas. You are mostly just people who are wasting your lives.

[Metamorph]

Yesterday I learned that I don't have to be paranoid of sharing ideas because even most of the information for building nuclear bombs is out in the open, mine are probably harder to implement than that. Now that I've slept and rewired my brain, I realize I just don't really want to share my ideas with you people. There are a few people here who I'm willing to give a chance. You know who you are. But this site as a whole is a terrible place to do anything but gossip and insult people, and maybe shitpost, but it's not optimized for shitposting either.

[Ikite iru]

Just shut-up already geez

[Metamorph]

Just shut-up already geez

The more you tell me to shut up, the less I'll want to.

[Metamorph]

Another positive benefit of learning that anyone with enough motivation could build a nuke since the information is public is the consequent that people like Elon Musk are actually really stupid or they would've done all the things they wanted to by now. He might be a danger to the people who idolize and follow him, but he's not a danger to the public at large, much like all the hype about ChatGPT etc. when these LLMs are actually kind of stupid. (I do think a dangerous AI could be made, but I don't think it has been.)

[Metamorph]

6-June.pdf (beneficeorwell.co.uk)

Me: Hey God.
God: Hello.
Me: I'm falling apart.
Can you put me back
together?
God: I would rather not.
Me: Why?
God: Because you aren't
a puzzle.
Me: What about all of the pieces of my life that are falling down onto the ground?
God: Let them stay there for a while. They fell off for a reason. Take some time and
decide if you need any of those pieces back.
Me: You don't understand! I'm breaking down!
God: No - you don't understand. You are breaking through. What you are feeling are
just growing pains. You are shedding the things and the people in your life that are
holding you back. You aren't falling apart. You are falling into place. Relax. Take
some deep breaths and allow those things you don't need anymore to fall off of you.
Quit holding onto the pieces that don't fit you anymore. Let them fall off. Let them
go.
Me: Once I start doing that, what will be left of me?
God: Only the very best pieces of you.
Me: I'm scared of changing.
God: I keep telling you - YOU AREN'T CHANGING!! YOU ARE BECOMING!
Me: Becoming who?
God: Becoming who I created you to be! A person of light and love and charity and
hope and courage and joy and mercy and grace and compassion. I made you for
more than the shallow pieces you have decided to adorn yourself with that you cling
to with such greed and fear. Let those things fall off of you. I love you! Don't change!
... Become! Become! Become who I made you to be. I'm going to keep telling you
this until you remember it.
Me: There goes another piece.
God: Yep. Let it be.
Me: So ... I'm not broken?
God: Of course not! - but you are breaking like the dawn. It's a new day.
Become!!!
Author: Hey God. Hey John. // John Roedel




I was Pseudomorph, but now I am Metamorph. This advice could be heeded by the people here, who are all about to take their place among the fossils of our time. People aren't going to pay attention to what I have to say, because they don't get it. I am somewhat withholding my best ideas not to waste them on this audience, but people should at least be able to appreciate some of what I did post a little more, which they can't, because of their hardened minds and hardened hearts. Of course they have hardened minds and hardened hearts, they're wasting their lives on a website for a fake theory instead of just reading Jung and Kępiński. Of course they can't do that, that would take work, which is horrible.

When I first thought this site was terrible, I named my account Pseudomorph to declare it a fossil, but I was the fossil. Now I'm alive and I'm free, unlike the user Alive, who ironically took that username, and is now named on a peaceful hiatus, despite being anything but.

Heresy PSA: You Don't Have to Believe in Socionics (the16types.info)

[Ikite iru]

The more you tell me to shut up, the less I'll want to.

I agree with qaz00. You flood the website with stuff that is almost completely unrelated to socionics. No one comes here to discuss the topics you talk about and it honestly borders on spam. I mean feel free to discuss what you want I don't care, but what you are doing is nonsense. You write 5 messages with 3 of them being about completely different things and then you insult others for not being bright enough while praising yourself. Brilliant. At least RaptorWizard is more innocent about his opinion and mostly posts in his own thread