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Thread: Do I sound more IEI or EII?

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    Cool Do I sound more IEI or EII?

    Thanks if anyone takes the time to read.



    I've always been deathly shy/easily drained and in tune to "things going on behind the scenes," that weren't readily apparent on the surface. Ever since I was a small child, I've always been good at reading people's emotions, and having insights into people's psyche based on little information (Intuitive ethical type?).



    Due to this ability, I was always able to get along with people with different backgrounds (and often had sympathy for the underdog), or be more diplomatic to things I knew were "sensitive topics" where as other children were more blunt as that sort of people-reading ability/empathy was learned over time for them, and I could present myself in an appropriate manner.



    Despite this, I alienated myself from others by being an obnoxious 4w5, I think, haha, and around the age of 10, I grew into being a deeply individualistic/go against the grain/question the rules/don't blindly follow them (Fi?) type of person, and would get into conflict with others due to a stubbornness in refusing to conform (I cringe typing that, but it is true). I am very feisty.



    I despise generalizations about anything, as I think they're limiting/Occam's razor-like (Ji?)



    I'm deeply analytical, and obsessively logically scrutinize things to figure out if they're clean of bias, and tend to annoy others with this sort of nitpicky quality of picking things apart.



    I'm out of tune with my surroundings and completely oblivious/neglecting of health, and it annoys me when others try to make me aware of it.



    Si egos bore the ever living hell out of me, and I tend to see them as stagnant/limiting people who are not adventurous enough about life (too comfort oriented (devalue Si???)



    I'm very disorganized, and I procrastinate everything.



    I'm completely detached from the physical world, but I do like to engage with it much more than the Si egos I am surrounded by (aka traveling, doing outdoorsy nature stuff, etc), but I always feel detached, and have difficulty coming outside of my own head.



    I strongly dislike high Fe users, and often see them as disingenuous or vapid (4 or Fi?).



    Apart from the cringy 4 stuff, what type do I seem like? Could I be either? People always VI me as IEI, but due to how much conflict I have with high Fe users, I'm not sure.




    I'm much, much, much less interested in the "group harmony" than IEIs are painted to be, and I'm more focused on individuals. I am also not very accommodating. I told my SEI friend I was "empathetic" and she laughed at me. LOL.

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    At first I thought you could be IEI, and then thought you could be an Ni-dom, but if you are extremely analytical, and especially if you dislike Fe-users, then that points to ILI.

    Certainly, your user name is more ILI than IEI.

    However, my overall impression is that you are most likely IEI-Ni.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    You can be both judgmental and empathetic

    I want to to know what things do you find right/wrong? Human rights issues where are your positions and why
    Outwardly... do you find people interrupting and in bad behavior when speaking in a debate rude or do you think it’s fair to do it?
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Android View Post
    Thanks if anyone takes the time to read.



    I've always been deathly shy/easily drained and in tune to "things going on behind the scenes," that weren't readily apparent on the surface. Ever since I was a small child, I've always been good at reading people's emotions, and having insights into people's psyche based on little information (Intuitive ethical type?).



    Due to this ability, I was always able to get along with people with different backgrounds (and often had sympathy for the underdog), or be more diplomatic to things I knew were "sensitive topics" where as other children were more blunt as that sort of people-reading ability/empathy was learned over time for them, and I could present myself in an appropriate manner.



    Despite this, I alienated myself from others by being an obnoxious 4w5, I think, haha, and around the age of 10, I grew into being a deeply individualistic/go against the grain/question the rules/don't blindly follow them (Fi?) type of person, and would get into conflict with others due to a stubbornness in refusing to conform (I cringe typing that, but it is true). I am very feisty.



    I despise generalizations about anything, as I think they're limiting/Occam's razor-like (Ji?)



    I'm deeply analytical, and obsessively logically scrutinize things to figure out if they're clean of bias, and tend to annoy others with this sort of nitpicky quality of picking things apart.



    I'm out of tune with my surroundings and completely oblivious/neglecting of health, and it annoys me when others try to make me aware of it.



    Si egos bore the ever living hell out of me, and I tend to see them as stagnant/limiting people who are not adventurous enough about life (too comfort oriented (devalue Si???)



    I'm very disorganized, and I procrastinate everything.



    I'm completely detached from the physical world, but I do like to engage with it much more than the Si egos I am surrounded by (aka traveling, doing outdoorsy nature stuff, etc), but I always feel detached, and have difficulty coming outside of my own head.



    I strongly dislike high Fe users, and often see them as disingenuous or vapid (4 or Fi?).



    Apart from the cringy 4 stuff, what type do I seem like? Could I be either? People always VI me as IEI, but due to how much conflict I have with high Fe users, I'm not sure.




    I'm much, much, much less interested in the "group harmony" than IEIs are painted to be, and I'm more focused on individuals. I am also not very accommodating. I told my SEI friend I was "empathetic" and she laughed at me. LOL.
    it makes it easier to distinguish your type when you can peer into how the info elements are experienced by each type

    this is really helpful, Android. Go to the Green box and click on the blue hyperlinks. It gives really incisive descriptions about how you feel about every information element (Si, Te, Ne, etc). http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...le=IM_elements
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    In a war or conflict do you believe it is important to take a side or remain neutral?
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    it's doubtful to decide about your sound by your text
    a video would help
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Too little info imho. You could be even ILI at this point.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Here’s how Fe and Fi works

    Fi looks to identify with other people’s morals in terms of whether what they say makes them a good or bad person (focusing on character and intentions)in terms of what the Fi type associates as good morals
    Fe types looks to others and sees if they have morals that align with their own (focusing on us or them and motivations)

    For instance if someone else votes for Biden they are likely “good” people who mean well by others
    If someone votes for Biden their morals align with the Fe user’s own morals
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    @Android Based on how you write I don't think IEI cuz your writing is pretty serious and muted in tone.

    i'm IEI-Ni 4w5 but even when writing seriously, i have a hard time pushing down my silly inner voice that wants to make things more casual and lighten the mood up. whereas even when you make some little jokes, your tone remains quite formal and it's almost a little disjointed. EII is more formal than IEI, but based on what you wrote, EII is a bit of a stretch.

    yeah, on rereading you seem soo Ni-Te. excepting the 4w5 bent to your thoughts, you think in the same way as my ILI dad. he has android keychains too Also, he would totally put that sunglasses emoji tag next to the title, if he were to post here.
    please consider ILI-Ni!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    @Android Based on how you write I don't think IEI cuz your writing is pretty serious and muted in tone.

    i'm IEI-Ni 4w5 but even when writing seriously, i have a hard time pushing down my silly inner voice that wants to make things more casual and lighten the mood up. whereas even when you make some little jokes, your tone remains quite formal and it's almost a little disjointed. EII is more formal than IEI, but based on what you wrote, EII is a bit of a stretch.

    yeah, on rereading you seem soo Ni-Te. excepting the 4w5 bent to your thoughts, you think in the same way as my ILI dad. he has android keychains too Also, he would totally put that sunglasses emoji tag next to the title, if he were to post here.
    please consider ILI-Ni!

    I'm definitely rather formal/dry, and there is a possibility that I'm 5w4 rather than 4w5. Haha. I have an Android theme going on throughout all of my usernames. I'll definitely consider it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Android View Post
    I'm definitely rather formal/dry, and there is a possibility that I'm 5w4 rather than 4w5. Haha. I have an Android theme going on throughout all of my usernames. I'll definitely consider it
    From my experience, I would say Ni doms can severely 'overestimate' themselves on xyz, giving away to 'fantasy' than to 'reality' - and this happens to both ILIs and IEIs (in different flavors). I also saw EIEs doing it, and maybe one of LIEs I know (who are possibly the most 'grounded' in Te-reality here).

    Your 'SEI' friend laughing may be akin to my EII friend laughing at me talking, when… This. If you are ILI indeed, I also doubt your friend is SEI, they might be different type (like EII or IEE, who are often… Very aware of things ILIs and LIEs seem to 'miss' about themselves).


    (There was a time when I would claim that I'm very good with people/Fe or that I can be such, lol)

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    OK Mr Nitpicker alien..ator ... Android... just go for ILI. I see that Fe consumes you. Just by doing some intersectional set theoretical approach based on statements I think only ILI survives out of 16. Also they seem to fit well with many ILI's.
    Uncertified public verbal executioner of ESI. Tickets will be available soon.
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    So here's an mbti and socioncis accurate INFP and INFJ relationship

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dd8mt_hNAU

    being concerned for the "disruption in harmony" is Fe rather than Fi. So I feel like MBTI got the functions wrong. INFJ are Fi and INFP are Fe for that reason. And the reason why something bother's the INFJ so deeply is because it disrupts their moral compass internally aka "It's wrong to do that to someone."
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-01-2020 at 07:38 AM.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psych View Post
    Always approach MBTI and socionics as separate system @OP, I have been at this for a while and I highly recommend not conflating the two. I wanted to mix-and-match at the beginning too, because why not, but the arguments are absolutely pointless imho. So approach them separately... a socionics type is not equivalent to a single other MBTI type.

    I personally don’t really care about MBTI as much anymore..
    no they are not. It's just that MBTI made an error in understanding what the functions were and how they were assigned to the introverts.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    INFJ aka EII more in depth

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHNdf6moliU
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psych View Post
    “Disruption in harmony” does not necessarily point to Fe and the MBTI descriptions, because they are vague enough to be interpreted million different ways, are prone to confirmation bias. Gulenko himself claims that looking the description of INFJ and INFP, “it’s like they have parts of EII and IEI mixed up and you can’t tell which one is which.” As I said earlier, at the very least, EII can be either INFJ or INFP. It’s not as simple a matter as “MBTI mixed up J/P.” The system is what it is. And EII-Nes might legitimately test as a P on MBTI, for example, etc. There are shades of gray and nuances.
    You can go ahead and make whatever assumption at me or you can watch the videos i post. Thanks
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psych View Post
    “Disruption in harmony” does not necessarily point to Fe and the MBTI descriptions, because they are vague enough to be interpreted million different ways, are prone to confirmation bias. Gulenko himself claims that looking the description of INFJ and INFP, “it’s like they have parts of EII and IEI mixed up and you can’t tell which one is which.” As I said earlier, at the very least, EII can be either INFJ or INFP. It’s not as simple a matter as “MBTI mixed up J/P.” The system is what it is. And EII-Nes might legitimately test as a P on MBTI, for example, etc. There are shades of gray and nuances.
    That's because they really have them mixed up. It should be clear to everybody now that Socionics/Jung has discovered the real types. What mbti is talking about is broken. Converting types is meaningless, but the only thing that makes sense is J=rational, P=irrational. Or just stick with the Socionics/Jung terminology.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psych View Post
    I’m a rational type by socionics but MBTI irrational description fits me better than the rational one.
    Which is why I don’t like this “INFJ is Fi and INFP is Fe.”
    mbti Ni means fi, because they signed it to take on J qualities
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psych View Post
    They assign J/P by the auxiliary function for the introverts so I disagree that they assigned “J qualities” to Ni.

    these are the top two google results for (MBTI) Ni and I think they are both talking about Ni proper:
    https://www.careerplanner.com/8Cogni...-Intuiting.cfm
    https://personalityjunkie.com/10/int...-intuition-ni/
    why are you derailing this thread. Stick to the topic. Or open a new discussion. We have way too many threads that went to the graveyard this way. By attributing some of the J qualities to Ni...mbti is able to explain why INFJ is J and why their dominant auxiliary function (Fe) does the bulk of J ness.

    Let's look at your fist link

    "You are used to having insights and hunches that frequently turn out to be correct. These "aha" moments are introverted intuiting at work."
    BOTH INFJ and INFP have epiphanies. the difference is INFP epiphanies are attributed to Ne rather than Ni and the sudden demonstrative visions of events that happen to INFJ is attributed to Ni. In fact I would surprise you in saying that ESTJ too have strong epiphanies. How is that possible being led by Te and Si? IDK you as the ESTJ Facebook group and find out. This is mbti's definition of "Ni" or Intuition.

    Epiphany: Epiphany is defined as a sudden and profound understanding of something. An example of epiphany is when someone has been looking for their lost keys and suddenly has an idea of where they are.

    "What happens is this. You feed your mind with information and data. You let your unconscious mind process the data. Then, perhaps when you are in the shower, or jogging, the answer just pops into your mind." Fine however INFJ are more in the Fi moment rather than Ni and INFP are more in the Ni moment than Fi



    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    That's because they really have them mixed up. It should be clear to everybody now that Socionics/Jung has discovered the real types. What mbti is talking about is broken. Converting types is meaningless, but the only thing that makes sense is J=rational, P=irrational. Or just stick with the Socionics/Jung terminology.

    MBTI wants Fi to be attributed to INFP because as they say INFP "feels" it's like a state to them however they misunderstood Fi which is to JUDGE
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-01-2020 at 04:02 PM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Let's look at your fist link
    Fist links are always problematic.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psych View Post
    I am sorry, I ignored this first one:


    ...but you are not above me in any hierarchical sense so I don't understand why you are taking that tone with me. Or why you expect me to follow through on them, especially stated that way.

    The OP is trying to distinguish between EII and IEI and since you claimed that INFP IS IEI and EII, INFJ, I think this is on topic. However, if the OP wanted, I can move it.

    I have never heard of this. Can you link a source for this? (not confrontational; curious) As far as I am aware, the sort of intuition talked about in those articles is almost exclusively assigned to Ni rather than Ne.


    Like I said, I disagree.


    Sure, I understand what Fi is, but how is contradictory to "INFP feeling state"?
    Dude I’m not your boss or the boss of this place. I’ve been here for a long time and I have seen all the struggles with derailed threads
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
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    I think you are probably IEI based on how much you say you dislike Si. The Hidden Agenda is often pretty strongly valued, and for EIIs that would be Si.

    Disliking high Fe people is not a point against Fe valuing. One of the main reasons that supervision ITR occurs for instance is that the supervisee’s lead function dominance is perceived as TOO high by the supervisor. Furthermore, IEIs are Ti HA, so it makes sense that you would seek more Ti environments than Fe ones, generally speaking. Again, because HA is highly valued; and again, Fe info would be the “opposite” in a sense of Ti HA.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    MBTI wants Fi to be attributed to INFP because as they say INFP "feels" it's like a state to them however they misunderstood Fi which is to JUDGE
    Yes, they have the functional analysis messed up. When I use the four letters such as "INFJ" I simply refer to EII (FiNe). Even Jung uses "judging types" synonymously with rational types, so I just prefer to totally ignore the flawded mbti functional profiles. But the four letters are for some reason nice to use sometimes, I guess I just got used to them when I got into typology.

    But mbti is not a separate system or has any essence of its own.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I think you are probably IEI based on how much you say you dislike Si. The Hidden Agenda is often pretty strongly valued, and for EIIs that would be Si.

    Disliking high Fe people is not a point against Fe valuing. One of the main reasons that supervision ITR occurs for instance is that the supervisee’s lead function dominance is perceived as TOO high by the supervisor. Furthermore, IEIs are Ti HA, so it makes sense that you would seek more Ti environments than Fe ones, generally speaking. Again, because HA is highly valued; and again, Fe info would be the “opposite” in a sense of Ti HA.
    IEI create a lot of Si themselves “no one can relax a person quite like Yesinin”
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Yes, they have the functional analysis messed up. When I use the four letters such as "INFJ" I simply refer to EII (FiNe). Even Jung uses "judging types" synonymously with rational types, so I just prefer to totally ignore the flawded mbti functional profiles. But the four letters are for some reason nice to use sometimes, I guess I just got used to them when I got into typology.

    But mbti is not a separate system or has any essence of its own.
    It’s so nice to feel understood xD
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psych View Post
    I’m a rational type by socionics but MBTI irrational description fits me better than the rational one.
    Which is why I don’t like this “INFJ is Fi and INFP is Fe.”
    What matters is to have experienced rationality/irrationality as the real psychic phenomenon it is. Descriptions are always more or less cryptic unless one is connected to the psychological reality behind them.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psych View Post
    This is what I’m basing it on and I don’t believe it’s “cryptic”: https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-...perceiving.htm

    i know the essence you speak of but my point is MBTI is not Jung directly, it’s someone’s interpretation of Jung, and so is socionics. One is not, for example, “mistyping” themselves should they see P type on MBTI based on that description but turn out to be J type on Socionics. Socionics subtypes might contribute to this some.
    so no, “INFJ is not EII” or whatever. They are a separate system in that they have a (at least slightly) different thinking, history and interpretation of Jung behind them.
    Mbti is Jung because “Gift Differing” by Isabel Myers references to Jung’s work it’s just that she misunderstood the introvert functions. She thought the INFJ is the introvert form of ENFJ and flipped the functions. She thought the introvert could be better explained by having extrovert Fe as a rational function of how they conduct the external world. She thought all rational types must have Fe or Te in order to be rational

    I have the book right in front of me
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  28. #28
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psych View Post
    This is what I’m basing it on and I don’t believe it’s “cryptic”: https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-...perceiving.htm

    i know the essence you speak of but my point is MBTI is not Jung directly, it’s someone’s interpretation of Jung, and so is socionics. One is not, for example, “mistyping” themselves should they see P type on MBTI based on that description but turn out to be J type on Socionics. Socionics subtypes might contribute to this some.
    so no, “INFJ is not EII” or whatever. They are a separate system in that they have a (at least slightly) different thinking, history and interpretation of Jung behind them.
    Isabel took this paragraph from Jung’s work on the Subconscious attitude meaning the P types and turned it into the validation for why INFJ must contain Fe

    “In a general way, the compensating attitude of the unconscious finds expression in the process of psychic equilibrium. A normal extraverted attitude does not, of course, mean that the individual behaves invariably in accordance with the extraverted schema. Even in the same individual many psychological happenings may be observed, in which the mechanism of introversion is concerned. A habitus can be called extraverted only when the mechanism of extraversion predominates. In such a case the most highly differentiated function has a constantly extraverted application, while the inferior functions are found in the service of introversion, i.e. the more valued function, because the more conscious, is more completely subordinated to conscious control and purpose, whilst the less conscious, in other words, the partly unconscious inferior functions are subjected to conscious free choice in a much smaller degree.”

    It’s in her book
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Page 20 “Gift Differing” “The conclusion that the auxiliary process takes care of the extroversion of the introvert and the introversion of the extrovert is confirmed by observation.”

    So that was very stupid and convenient at the same time lol

    Goes on to say ISTJ prefer thinking to feeling

    No shit sherlock lol
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    IXIs can vary greatly in their usage of role function - Si: from 'can they be SXI' to pretty much Si-PoLRish state. If you buy into subtypes (as a concept), it depends on that pretty much. Or, on experiences, variety and so on. On the other hand, EIIs like/don't mind/use Si pretty uniformly, more or less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Android View Post
    Thanks if anyone takes the time to read.



    I've always been deathly shy/easily drained and in tune to "things going on behind the scenes," that weren't readily apparent on the surface. Ever since I was a small child, I've always been good at reading people's emotions, and having insights into people's psyche based on little information (Intuitive ethical type?).



    Due to this ability, I was always able to get along with people with different backgrounds (and often had sympathy for the underdog), or be more diplomatic to things I knew were "sensitive topics" where as other children were more blunt as that sort of people-reading ability/empathy was learned over time for them, and I could present myself in an appropriate manner.



    Despite this, I alienated myself from others by being an obnoxious 4w5, I think, haha, and around the age of 10, I grew into being a deeply individualistic/go against the grain/question the rules/don't blindly follow them (Fi?) type of person, and would get into conflict with others due to a stubbornness in refusing to conform (I cringe typing that, but it is true). I am very feisty.



    I despise generalizations about anything, as I think they're limiting/Occam's razor-like (Ji?)



    I'm deeply analytical, and obsessively logically scrutinize things to figure out if they're clean of bias, and tend to annoy others with this sort of nitpicky quality of picking things apart.



    I'm out of tune with my surroundings and completely oblivious/neglecting of health, and it annoys me when others try to make me aware of it.



    Si egos bore the ever living hell out of me, and I tend to see them as stagnant/limiting people who are not adventurous enough about life (too comfort oriented (devalue Si???)



    I'm very disorganized, and I procrastinate everything.



    I'm completely detached from the physical world, but I do like to engage with it much more than the Si egos I am surrounded by (aka traveling, doing outdoorsy nature stuff, etc), but I always feel detached, and have difficulty coming outside of my own head.



    I strongly dislike high Fe users, and often see them as disingenuous or vapid (4 or Fi?).



    Apart from the cringy 4 stuff, what type do I seem like? Could I be either? People always VI me as IEI, but due to how much conflict I have with high Fe users, I'm not sure.




    I'm much, much, much less interested in the "group harmony" than IEIs are painted to be, and I'm more focused on individuals. I am also not very accommodating. I told my SEI friend I was "empathetic" and she laughed at me. LOL.

    I'm late in adding my two cents but the OP sounds unsure in the theory of Socionics. You have a lot of questions that are related to what the information are and what they are not. You do not sound like either type from the description, but I dont know you. VI wont work because its an absurd theory. You don't sound like you value Fe but that all I can really gather from the post. You sound like a loner, and not in a pejorative sense. You sound like you like watch people and try to figure them out. The question I would like to know is what is the origin of this shyness and disconnect with the outside world, is this social anxiety or depression or do you think these are actual traits in your personality?

    If you want a guess you sound like someone who values Fi but isn't great at it. You sound like an introvert and you admit to not paying attention to the outside world as much as others. So my best guess from the information would be ILI.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    IXIs can vary greatly in their usage of role function - Si: from 'can they be SXI' to pretty much Si-PoLRish state. If you buy into subtypes (as a concept), it depends on that pretty much. Or, on experiences, variety and so on. On the other hand, EIIs like/don't mind/use Si pretty uniformly, more or less.
    My Si is up and down
    I can not relax easily
    I can relax other
    I feel pressed for time
    I don’t see things for what they are but the impression they make it me and it’s warped
    I feel restless on the inside probably due to too much coffee and too calm on the outside
    I feel out of place everywhere other than in someone else’s home
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    On the usefulness of MBTI that can be applied here:

    4w5 aligns with INFJ INFP therefore we can expect for this person NOT to be something like LSE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Android View Post
    Thanks if anyone takes the time to read.

    I've always been deathly shy/easily drained and in tune to "things going on behind the scenes," that weren't readily apparent on the surface.
    Ever since I was a small child, I've always been good at reading people's emotions
    (F type, Fe > Fi)

    and having insights into people's psyche based on little information
    (Introverted intuiton or Ni)

    Due to this ability, I was always able to get along with people with different backgrounds (and often had sympathy for the underdog), or be more diplomatic to things I knew were "sensitive topics" where as
    (Fe)

    other children were more blunt as that sort of people-reading ability/empathy was learned over time for them, and I could present myself in an appropriate manner.
    (Fe)

    Despite this, I alienated myself from others by being an obnoxious 4w5
    (INFP / INFJ in MBTI probably IEI EII or ILI)

    I think, haha, and around the age of 10, I grew into being a deeply individualistic/go against the grain/question the rules/don't blindly follow them (Fi?) type of person
    (Could be Ti or Fi, both can be used for rebellion)

    and would get into conflict with others due to a stubbornness in refusing to conform (I cringe typing that, but it is true). I am very feisty.
    (Could be weak but valued Se)
    I despise generalizations about anything, as I think they're limiting/Occam's razor-like (Ji?)
    (Te)

    I'm deeply analytical, and obsessively logically scrutinize things to figure out if they're clean of bias, and tend to annoy others with this sort of nitpicky quality of picking things apart.
    (Aka Finding structure, holding the highest which has no exceptions…Could be weak + valued Ti)

    I'm out of tune with my surroundings and completely oblivious/neglecting of health, and it annoys me when others try to make me aware of it.
    (Devalued Si, Weak Se)
    Si egos bore the ever living hell out of me, and I tend to see them as stagnant/limiting people who are not adventurous enough about life (too comfort oriented (devalue Si???)
    (Devalued Si)

    I'm very disorganized, and I procrastinate everything.
    (IP temperament)
    I'm completely detached from the physical world, but I do like to engage with it much more than the Si egos I am surrounded by (aka traveling, doing outdoorsy nature stuff, etc), but I always feel detached, and have difficulty coming outside of my own head.
    (Ni)

    I strongly dislike high Fe users, and often see them as disingenuous or vapid (4 or Fi?).
    (depends on what your understanding of high Fe is and what your reason for strongly disliking it is)

    Apart from the cringy 4 stuff, what type do I seem like? Could I be either? People always VI me as IEI, but due to how much conflict I have with high Fe users, I'm not sure.
    If I had to choose between IEI vs EII I’d pick IEI
    Last edited by peteronfireee; 10-02-2020 at 10:54 AM.

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    I didn't read the rest of the posts after OP but I thought ILI

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psych View Post
    This is what I’m basing it on and I don’t believe it’s “cryptic”: https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-...perceiving.htm

    i know the essence you speak of but my point is MBTI is not Jung directly, it’s someone’s interpretation of Jung, and so is socionics. One is not, for example, “mistyping” themselves should they see P type on MBTI based on that description but turn out to be J type on Socionics. Socionics subtypes might contribute to this some.
    so no, “INFJ is not EII” or whatever. They are a separate system in that they have a (at least slightly) different thinking, history and interpretation of Jung behind them.
    I get what you're saying. Your view could be true in theory. But this is not an abstract game. Imo you seem disconnected from the actual reality, the phenomenon. The Socionics / Jung types are such a fundamental discovery when you actually experience it. Saying that mbti has a "different interpretation" just seems like an excuse when they obviously got some things wrong. And why wouldn't they? Reading Jung is not easy. But Socionics managed somehow to get it right.

    I really don't care much about this relativism. You can't invent a typology from thin air. The things you talk about have to be real and typical. Socionics with the intertype relationships gives us the tools we need to check things for ourselves.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


    My Pinterest

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImOutThere View Post
    the OP sounds unsure in the theory of Socionics.
    Yes; I am. I am coming from MBTI, and as someone pointed out, I should see them as separate systems. Excuse my ignorance.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImOutThere View Post
    You sound like a loner, and not in a pejorative sense. You sound like you like watch people and try to figure them out. The question I would like to know is what is the origin of this shyness and disconnect with the outside world, is this social anxiety or depression or do you think these are actual traits in your personality?
    All of the above. Social anxiety, being a detached observer, and an inherent disconnection from the outside world.

    I get ILI on the official test, but I still take the time to ask because people say that I seem IEI, though I'm not sure how much of that is gender bias because I'm a female. It seems absurd to me to see myself as a Fe-creative type, but people have told me that Beta Fe is much different than my impression of stereotypical MBTI, placating Fe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Android View Post
    It seems absurd to me to see myself as a Fe-creative type, but people have told me that Beta Fe is much different than my impression of stereotypical MBTI, placating Fe.
    Fe can vary from anything very placating (stereotypical ESE) to vulgar, dramatic, demeaning (stereotypical bad EIE).

    What you can say about Fe is that it's dynamic, 'changeable', extroverted. Fi is static, internal, not so easily changeable; both refer to ethics though (and things like 'morality' can be both Fe/Ti and Fi/Te based - and it's important to view them as whole 'pairs' of Fx/Tx when looking at them). Fe is collectivistic, Fi more individualistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    Fe can vary from anything very placating (stereotypical ESE) to vulgar, dramatic, demeaning (stereotypical bad EIE).

    What you can say about Fe is that it's dynamic, 'changeable', extroverted. Fi is static, internal, not so easily changeable; both refer to ethics though (and things like 'morality' can be both Fe/Ti and Fi/Te based - and it's important to view them as whole 'pairs' of Fx/Tx when looking at them). Fe is collectivistic, Fi more individualistic.
    Hm. I need to learn the difference between Alpha Fe, and Beta Fe. I have so much conflict with ESE and SEI; I can not be in the same room as one without fighting with them.

    My mother (SEI-Si 9w8 spsx) and I bicker daily, and we always say we are the antithesis of each other.
    Especially when I'm showing her a study or external statistic, and she ignores it in favor of anecdote. I don't know if that's Te PolR or not.

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    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
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    Sep 2018
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    EII typed by Gulenko
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    Quote Originally Posted by Android View Post
    I get ILI on the official test, but I still take the time to ask because people say that I seem IEI, though I'm not sure how much of that is gender bias because I'm a female. It seems absurd to me to see myself as a Fe-creative type
    I agree that people are generally speaking with stereotypes in mind. I’d just look into the two types (ILI and IEI) then. I like Beskova’s descriptions personally:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...NTp-by-Beskova
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...NFp-by-Beskova

    These are still biased within the context of Eastern European society from a few decades ago but they’re otherwise a pretty good attempt to be gender-specific IMO.

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