PoLR vs Role vs Hidden Agenda

[Mea]

ok, someone tell me if this would be someone hitting my PoLR... It happened a few years ago...

I'm at work. I'm the area coordinator and pretty much let people know what needs to be done. I don't usually order people around but in this case the guy I was talking to was a very lazy bastard and I confronted him on it.
So I told him, dude, you need to start working on the same level with the rest of us, way too much of your weight is being carried by everyone else.
his response was, who the fuck are you to give me orders, to which I replied, I'm the AC and it's on me if shit doesn't get done.
Then he looks at me and tells me that I don't mean anything and that I'm on the same level with him and I can't tell him what HE needs to do. He said, You ain't shit here, even if you think you are... and then a few insults etc before I slammed him up against a wall... (at work, this type of outburst had never happened before and won't ever happen again, if it were anyone else I would have been fired)
I'd never ever been as pissed as I was when he pretty much said that I really didn't mean anything to my area like I thought I did...
Just wondering if this was a case of someone hitting my PoLR? if not, I really do want someone to give me an example...lol I swear I won't kill or hit anyone... not even an E-Pimpslap online...

Well, maybe you were hitting HIS PoLR . But seriously, those words he said, would've pissed me off too. He sounded rude. Not hitting your PoLR IMO, but I'm not sure.

I was just thinking of something that made me really really mad from my past...lol So, what would be someone hitting my PoLR?

Well, I'm not sure what an Ni PoLR hit is like.
But is it possible he was hitting your Fe role?

[Joy]

To me it sounds like a guy who just generally hates his job and was saying whatever he could to get you to lose your temper (and it worked lol) and you'd be doing him a favor by getting him fired.

[cracka]

To me it sounds like a guy who just generally hates his job and was saying whatever he could to get you to lose your temper (and it worked lol) and you'd be doing him a favor by getting him fired.

I've never got anyone fired, I usually just get people to do their job... I could've easily been fired for slamming him up against the wall as I did but luckily all the people involved were cool about it and nobody said anything. A few weeks later that guy moved to a different area anyway. We were still decent friends when I moved away from AZ, mainly because I didn't work with him anymore.

[Expat]

I was just thinking of something that made me really really mad from my past...lol So, what would be someone hitting my PoLR?

cracka, you should be able to have an image of what hitting your PoLR would be like. But you are not. You can't even begin to imagine what is like, because you keep focusing on specific details and miss the big picture. We have to explain it to you because you can't see it yourself. Oh and you waste so much time going through details one step at a time that you never know how long you need to do anything.

[Expat]

So, did it work?

[cracka]

So, did it work?

ah, I think I get it. I figure, if someone said that in real life with the right tone it may easily get under my skin. That's what i was looking for...

[Mea]

So, did it work?

So, I'm curious. What would be a Ti PoLR hit? Or as Se role hit?

[Joy]

oh, I didn't mention this when I posted this... cracka, this was an example of me dealing with an ESFj's PoLR, which is the same as yours. My experience with ESTjs is that while they are aware that it's a good idea to invest, they end up working over time instead of taking the time or effort to learn to do so. If they're criticized for this, they can become hostile. They're more focused on present and near future physical needs and desires than Ni types. They can get cranky if you criticize their lack of long term foresight and have trouble seeing the big picture when it comes to actually setting and achieving long term goals. They just have a general idea of what they want and do not like it when people pressure them to think bigger or give them a hard time about whether or not their short term goals are consistent with their long term goals.

A couple days ago I was talking to my boss about real estate investing, and he was talking about how prices are going to drop in our area... I didn't disagree, and told him that I had some other areas in mind... I started mentioning a few of them, and for every single area he had some warning, a reason not to invest there (generally something sorta silly, from my perspective). Then he started talking about how you have to be careful with "funny" financing, because if you don't have equity in the property you can find yourself upside down and in a lot of trouble... and I reminded him that I'm watching market cycles and investing based on that, and besides, there will be equity in the properties. He said something about having the capital... to which I replied that I didn't need the capital because I had a partner who would be coming up with the 20% down payment, then he was like, "You know what you gotta watch for with partners? They'll want you to take all of the liability and be personally responsible for the debt..." and on and on and on... and I answered each of his concerns on every point and was about to say, "There's no such thing as the perfect investment. You just have to manage risk by doing your homework.... " and so on, when I remembered why I ever stopped talking to him about investments in the first place.

Silly ESFjs.

[Joy]

So, did it work?

So, I'm curious. What would be a Ti PoLR hit? Or as Se role hit?

Ni

[Mea]

So, did it work?

So, I'm curious. What would be a Ti PoLR hit? Or as Se role hit?

Ni

Umm, no. I'm asking what would make and ENFp tick. What would someone say or do to attack my Ti PoLR or Se role?

[Expat]

So, did it work?

So, I'm curious. What would be a Ti PoLR hit? Or as Se role hit?

Ti PoLR: "wait a moment, what you said right now totally contradicts what you said five minutes ago. You never make any sense, you go into all directions and then back in a totally chaotic way".

Se PoLR: "you're too nice, you can't say no to anyone, you let everyone trample all over you. That's why nobody takes you seriously at your job and nobody pays any attention to what you're saying".

[Mea]

So, did it work?

So, I'm curious. What would be a Ti PoLR hit? Or as Se role hit?

Ti PoLR: "wait a moment, what you said right now totally contradicts what you said five minutes ago. You never make any sense, you go into all directions and then back in a totally chaotic way".

Ooo. Okay. I get it now. That would make me uncomfortable.
Hmm, Thanks.

[Joy]

lol sorry Mea, I misread

[Joy]

Ti PoLR: "wait a moment, what you said right now totally contradicts what you said five minutes ago. You never make any sense, you go into all directions and then back in a totally chaotic way".

People irl don't say this to me. People here say that to me, but it doesn't bother me. If anything I'm just irritated that they're missing the point entirely and I have to take time to explain it to them if I want them to understand. I'm also irritated because when they say this and I do try to explain the point, they get even further away from it.

[Mea]

lol sorry Mea, I misread

Don't sweat it.

O. And, would someone give an example of an attack on a Te PoLR?

[Expat]

lol sorry Mea, I misread

Don't sweat it.

O. And, would someone give an example of an attack on a Te PoLR?

"You studied that subject at college for 4 years, and you still can't do anything right with it. You have learned nothing. What you did with regard to that subject yesterday -- well, it was so wrong, it's clear that you don't have a clue about it. It made no sense and it was useless".

[Joy]

What's are you trying to accomplish here? Seriously, do you even know? Your attempts at explaining it are making it sound like you have no idea what you're doing. What you're trying to do is not working at all and I can't believe that you can't see that. Never mind, there's no reason to even try to explain this to you because you just keep missing the point. Just go back to your useless activity and forget I mentioned anything.

[FDG]

What's are you trying to accomplish here? Seriously, do you even know? Your attempts at explaining it are making it sound like you have no idea what you're doing. What you're trying to do is not working at all and I can't believe that you can't see that. Never mind, there's no reason to even try to explain this to you because you just keep missing the point. Just go back to your useless activity and forget I mentioned anything.

My god, this is very mean. I would rip apart anybody who said this to somebody I liked.

[Joy]

What's are you trying to accomplish here? Seriously, do you even know? Your attempts at explaining it are making it sound like you have no idea what you're doing. What you're trying to do is not working at all and I can't believe that you can't see that. Never mind, there's no reason to even try to explain this to you because you just keep missing the point. Just go back to your useless activity and forget I mentioned anything.

My god, this is very mean. I would rip apart anybody who said this to somebody I liked.

I accidentally got this guy in a bar really upset one time. It was a Young Professionals of Milwaukee social event and I was there, of course, for business. I asked him what he does, and he he told me this long, rambling story about some project he was working on. In the end what he was pretty much saying is, "I can't tell you what I do because it's confidential while the contract is being negotiated." I couldn't figure out why he was there or his reason for telling me the long, rambling story. I thought I could help him out by finding out what the point of all of it was and suggesting a better way to go about it.... the conversation ended when I said, "I'm sorry, I guess I just don't understand the point of what you're trying to accomplish here." He became visibly distraught and just turned and walked away from me. I tried to call him back to apologize... or something... but he was gone too fast.

[XoX]

So far the smilex's Fe-hit and Expat's Ni-hit have had the biggest effect on me I mean if someone said "You studied 4 years at college and you still don't know shit" I would be like "Then obviously they don't teach anything worth a shit there, eh? Not my fault". Joy's hit (on Te too?) was a bit more annoying but mostly because it was so hostile. Still it was something I would just shrug off like "Hey, I'm really not interested in your point of view in this matter...If you don't like what I'm doing then too bad...doesn't bother me really".

The Ni and Fe hits were way more bad because the Fe hit just made sense i.e. I felt like "Well he is right...I'm behaving badly...shit I didn't understand it could seem like that to others...I just thought it is fun etc etc" and the Ni hit just made me totally confused like "What is he talking about? Is that true? Am I missing the big picture? Is he just messing with me? wtf is going on here!??". Perhaps I'm just sympathizing with people like cracka and pezzo which is why I feel those hits

[Smilingeyes]

Just as a general reminder, having your PoLR touched well and good generally does not make you angry as much as docile. It's something that takes the wind from your sails.

As for getting my PoLR hit a bull's eye would be roughly as follows:

Your efforts are all in vain. No matter how much you strive you get old, weak, sick and then you die. You'll be a rotting corpse in a moldy pit with worms crawling out of your eyes. If you try enough you can already feel them under your skin.

The feeling I get from a Role function hit is generally one of disgust.

[Joy]

Just as a general reminder, having your PoLR touched well and good generally does not make you angry as much as docile. It's something that takes the wind from your sails.

The feeling I get from a Role function hit is generally one of disgust.

That sounds very accurate of Fe and Si hits for me.

[Jonathan]

As for getting my PoLR hit a bull's eye would be roughly as follows:

Your efforts are all in vain. No matter how much you strive you get old, weak, sick and then you die. You'll be a rotting corpse in a moldy pit with worms crawling out of your eyes. If you try enough you can already feel them under your skin.

Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all....

...For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Was Solomon Ni then?

[Exodus]

Remind me again what a Ti hit would be like? Someone explained it last time you asked this question, but I forgot what they said.

Can't you figure it out yourself? You're always relying on other people's judgment. Think for yourself for once.

My response: "what? how'd he get that impression? I do not! What'd I say to make him think that? *rereads own question* ohhhhh. hahaha!" <-- so minus the realizing what he was doing there at the end, that's how I respond to a role hit.

Glad to be of service.

[Jonathan]

So, did it work?

So, I'm curious. What would be a Ti PoLR hit? Or as Se role hit?

Ti PoLR: "wait a moment, what you said right now totally contradicts what you said five minutes ago. You never make any sense, you go into all directions and then back in a totally chaotic way".

Se PoLR: "you're too nice, you can't say no to anyone, you let everyone trample all over you. That's why nobody takes you seriously at your job and nobody pays any attention to what you're saying".

The Ti one makes sense, although the other person's Ti one about figuring stuff out by oneself seemed truer to observation.

The Se seems to me possibly too T-biased. I can't imagine an SF Gamma saying that....especially ESIs.

However, I do know someone who used to say something very much like this. I assumed this person was a Beta NF, although sometimes I think SLE. Beta NF would fit, though, because such a person is seeking a Beta ST, and therefore would react against people who don't act like Beta STs. (Actually, the more I think of it, the more I think that everyone who's ever said something like that to me was a Beta NF annoyed that I wasn't a Beta ST.)

Anyhow, I do think we need an Ne one.

Here's a try at Ne, based on observations: "That excites you? What's so interesting about that? Are you only interested in boring and insignificant things?"

[Joy]

What's are you trying to accomplish here? Seriously, do you even know? Your attempts at explaining it are making it sound like you have no idea what you're doing. What you're trying to do is not working at all and I can't believe that you can't see that. Never mind, there's no reason to even try to explain this to you because you just keep missing the point. Just go back to your useless activity and forget I mentioned anything.

Just wanted to add a note here... after I posted this I realized that true PoLR hits aren't aggressive... if someone says something in an aggressive manner, it doesn't have the same power against one's PoLR as something stated more objectively. But FDG had already quoted it, and I'm a fan of leaving what you've posted, even if it's wrong. You can come back and say you were incorrect later, but changing your post in a way that makes other people's posts not make sense just seems wrong to me.

[FDG]

It's not a problem for me to change the post, really.

[Joy]

It's okay, I don't mind looking like an ass.

Seriously though, to me it's better to make an error and point it out than to make an error and reverse it because, for example, in this thread the point has now been made that PoLR hits aren't generally aggressive.

We learn through making mistakes. And whatnot.

[FDG]

What about a Fi polr hit

[implied]

So, did it work?

So, I'm curious. What would be a Ti PoLR hit? Or as Se role hit?

Ti PoLR: "wait a moment, what you said right now totally contradicts what you said five minutes ago. You never make any sense, you go into all directions and then back in a totally chaotic way".

Se PoLR: "you're too nice, you can't say no to anyone, you let everyone trample all over you. That's why nobody takes you seriously at your job and nobody pays any attention to what you're saying".

!!!

the one is perfect!

[Joy]

So, did it work?

So, I'm curious. What would be a Ti PoLR hit? Or as Se role hit?

Ti PoLR: "wait a moment, what you said right now totally contradicts what you said five minutes ago. You never make any sense, you go into all directions and then back in a totally chaotic way".

Se PoLR: "you're too nice, you can't say no to anyone, you let everyone trample all over you. That's why nobody takes you seriously at your job and nobody pays any attention to what you're saying".

!!!

the one is perfect!

Yeah, the INTj I was with would say that to my ESFp friend.

I said stuff similar to the Se PoLR to him. I'd tell him that he needs to tell his boss that he won't work so many nights a week and that he needs to stand up to his boss and just tell him say no when his boss tells him that he needs to work on a night he's not supposed to work. He had the hardest time with this because his boss would just keep telling him (instead of asking him or telling him once and then backing off when he says no). It was very frustrating.

[Joy]

Hmmmm... with this particular ESFp friend, I thought of her as being very suggestible because she could say that she thinks something is some way, and all you'd have to say is that it's a different way and then she'd start saying it's the way you told her it is. It seemed like she didn't "know" anything on her own. All she knew what what she liked and disliked... everything else depended on what the person she was talking to said was true.

I understand that this is an extreme case... I've had other ESFp friends who weren't so obviously suggestible like that. Maybe it's a subtype thing? Or an intelligence thing?

[Slacker]

As far as an Ne PoLR goes, when I say something like the following, I see my ISFj brother get (quietly) agitated and so I leave him alone for a bit.

"Why do you think that's going to happen? Lots of things could happen! This could happen, or this other thing, and maybe this, and maybe this too! You shouldn't assume it's going to happen like you think. It might be completely different!"

[tcaudilllg]

So, did it work?

ah, I think I get it. I figure, if someone said that in real life with the right tone it may easily get under my skin. That's what i was looking for...

Ahem...

Why the hell are you wasting time on this forum? Socionics is a complete waste of your time and yet you can't see that because you can't get your priorities straight worth hell. All it's ever about is you, you, you. What about what other people want? You don't care about anybody but yourself.

[pezzonovante]

We need to start ambushing each other with random PoLR hits all over the forum .

[Joy]

lol I sorta already do with certain people... I'm not really willing to admit to more than that though.

[aestrivex]

We need to start ambushing each other with random PoLR hits all over the forum .

let me take care of you for a while.



ok, bad. like i know what an Si hit is supposed to be.

[Joy]

One of the hardest Si hits I've experienced... this one really upset me...

At one point I went on a massive cleaning spree and cleaned the whole house. It stayed spotless for about two weeks and was pretty happy with myself, at which point in time my ex mother in law came over to visit and brought a candle for me. My ex husband told me that night that she said she bought the candle for me because she was so proud that I'd kept the house clean that whole time.

[Exodus]

Ti PoLR: "wait a moment, what you said right now totally contradicts what you said five minutes ago. You never make any sense, you go into all directions and then back in a totally chaotic way".

That's pretty accurate. However, it seems more directed towards irrational types.

[Joy]

One of the hardest Si hits I've experienced... this one really upset me...

At one point I went on a massive cleaning spree and cleaned the whole house. It stayed spotless for about two weeks and was pretty happy with myself, at which point in time my ex mother in law came over to visit and brought a candle for me. My ex husband told me that night that she said she bought the candle for me because she was so proud that I'd kept the house clean that whole time.

Actually, this particular area of sensitivity for me is a combination of the Role and PoLR. A woman is expected to keep her home attractive. If someone walks into a house and it's hideous, they automatically think, "How on earth could she let it get like this!"