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Thread: How do you cope with your PoLR? Reactions and compensation.

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    There are definitely some Fi-PoLR types that value honour, values, religion, morality, altruism, tradition, etc. not that those things are intrinsically Fi-related... I'm sure a lot of Fi-devaluing/Fi-PoLR types value those things. Fyodor Dostoyevsky was probably my favourite Delta/EII, so if you agree that he was EII and/or want to get a glimpse of the (Delta) world through the eyes of one of the best Delta/EII writers ever, then read his work... The Brothers Karamazov, The Idiot, etc.

    Regarading my PoLR, it's unfortunate that it is the most useful function:

    'Extraverted Logic or Extraverted Thinking (which is the leading function of “The Directive ESTj” and “The Rational ENTj”, and the creative function of the ISTp and INTp types) is also called Processual, Practical, or Algorithmic Logic (and is a rational, extraverted, and dynamic information element which is valued by the Delta and Gamma quadras). It evaluates things relative to efficiency, and estimates things in terms of methods as opposed to systems or theories. Extraverted Logic concerns itself with the “external activity of objects”; the what, how, and where of events, etc.; activity; behaviour; and algorithms [“a set of rules for solving a problem in a finite number of steps, as for finding the greatest common divisor” or "a systematic procedure for solving a mathematical problem in a finite number of steps, often using a computer; broadly a step-by-step procedure for solving a problem or accomplishing some end"]. Extraverted Logic is about being productive, knowing how to separate fact from fiction, and knowing how to gather useful information and knowledge. This information element pursues worthy causes, and desires to express spirituality or earn approval by teaming up together and working hard in order to create a peaceful, rational world. Factual accuracy and worthy service or efficiency are all keywords of Extraverted Logic. Although they often have strong ideas about improving methods and may become scientists or visionaries, more often than not they decide on a business career. Despite their [quondam or occasional] sensitivity, emotionality, and sentimentality [especially for Te-dominants in particular], they are often perceived as being “cold-hearted” or austere. Nevertheless, Extraverted Logic is the most authentically constructive and genuinely truthful information element.'


    I know Te-PoLR is not (always) an excuse for lacking common-sense, not being practical and efficient, etc. . . . I'm also poor at time-management, etc. especially when I worked at places like grocery stores, Tim Hortons, etc. I make mistakes, I'm too slow, people criticize me, I'm not good at multi-tasking, sometimes I'm perfectionist and/or take too long to do different things, I get overwhelmed (but usually don't show it), etc. I'm sure some people know how to make the best of the type they were dealt, but I feel like I generally made a mess of things.
    Last edited by HERO; 10-10-2012 at 12:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agape View Post

    I know Te-PoLR is not (always) an excuse for lacking common-sense, not being practical and efficient, etc. . . . I'm also poor at time-management, etc. especially when I worked at places like grocery stores, Tim Hortons, etc. I make mistakes, I'm too slow, people criticize me, I'm not good at multi-tasking, sometimes I'm perfectionist and/or take too long to do different things, I get overwhelmed (but usually don't show it), etc. I'm sure some people know how to make the best of the type they were dealt, but I feel like I generally made a mess of things.
    So true...

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    although Fi is pretty useless in a practical sense. It just makes you think everyone feels the same as you when they don't. It also makes up abstract things to argue over like "honor." Useless.
    Ah man, that's PoLR in action. You obviously don't understand what's Fi about. Otherwise, you couldn't say it's about "honor".
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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    I've always found Se to be simply boring.
    In my experience even IEI's don't like Se in certain settings. While perhaps I may be an atypical IEI in that I tend to be a lot worse at normal jobs (for example grocery stores) than the normal IEI... but in my experience (and also based on somethings I've read by Filatova) an IEI with an SLE who is like superior to them at work, inspecting them, etc. is not always the best combination. Sometimes the SLE (at a grocery for example) might already have an IEI or two that they like, but they never liked me for some reason (probably because I tended to be the worst/new at the job, and they tended to boss me around, and I often resented being criticized so much when I was earnestly trying to do the tasks I was assigned the best I could... sometimes I was more thorough at certain things than others... at other times I was just too slow or I was criticized for making mistakes, taking things to the wrong place, etc.)

    Anyway, LSE's in this kind of work environment can also be critical, but they also seem nicer about it. LSE may be my conflictor, but I've had experiences with this type that weren't too bad. But I think an IEI working alongside a critical/bossy SLE (or under that person's supervision) in a job the IEI doesn't really like or isn't good/proficient at is more often than not a bad thing.

    In general though, IEI's like me probably like SLE's in music more. Like Courtney Love, Amy Winehouse, Madonna, Brody Dalle, Henry Rollins... I definitely like some of their music. While I can't really appreciate Ernest Hemingway much... Music-wise I definitely like a lot of Betas... and in terms of writers I like some, but I often tend to prefer identicals more and/or Serious/Fi-valuing types in literature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    But where will you give me room to explain myself when you're already busy doing it poorly on my behalf?

    The incomprehensible Ti nutballs I mentioned are those who lack the meta-cognitive ability to understand their own judgments and biases as they formulate them or draw more elaborate conclusions upon them. This ability is what I refer to as one possible example of "another system" that keeps any normal functioning human being in check.

    I also find myself more prone to avoiding talking about the IEs as separate entities, instead favoring to remark on people who exhibit said IE and how they manifest depending on the individual. Most of the INTjs I've known in person haven't consistently offended me because in our interactions we're both intelligent enough to express our own ideas rationally and thoughtfully while keeping in mind the limits of our understanding. It's only when this meta-cognitive process breaks down that I get particularly annoyed, not just towards INTjs but anybody.
    Hehe, I did not think you guilty of anything, Galen. Your post was just perfect to snip out of the context of your thought process and explain why IEs cannot be spoken of directly without projecting them into different types. I agree with your earlier methodology and understand what you meant because I know your sound reasoning here was considered in its creation

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    I'm not Se-PoLR, but I wanted to comment on it anyway.
    It seems Se-PoLRs get confused when someone tries to start a fight with them. Something like this:
    "He seems upset. Maybe something's not working right. Now he's pointing at me. Does he want me to fix it? Oh, he's leaving. Must not need my help after all. Oh-he's coming back with a baseball bat. Does he want me to fix his baseball bat? What-OW! Stop! Why are you hitting me?!"

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    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    Ah man, that's PoLR in action. You obviously don't understand what's Fi about. Otherwise, you couldn't say it's about "honor".
    As long he makes to that Top 5 people on this forum posts I read and laugh out loud while doing so, he can damn well be from Japanese J Fi rational samurai society or something like that.

  8. #248
    you can go to where your heart is Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlast View Post
    Hehe, I did not think you guilty of anything, Galen. Your post was just perfect to snip out of the context of your thought process and explain why IEs cannot be spoken of directly without projecting them into different types. I agree with your earlier methodology and understand what you meant because I know your sound reasoning here was considered in its creation
    aw shucks you guys~

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    you can go to where your heart is Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    although Fi is pretty useless in a practical sense. It just makes you think everyone feels the same as you when they don't. It also makes up abstract things to argue over like "honor." Useless.
    wtf no it doesn't

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    It also makes up abstract things to argue over like "honor." Useless.
    The first thing that comes to my mind when I think about people concerned with "honor" is some macho SLE.
    Last edited by willekeurig; 10-01-2012 at 07:18 PM.
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    Honor; "honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions"

    Guessing that this was the meaning of the word used above, it probably has greatest archetypal relation to and , but even then that would be taking into account the difference in practice and methodologies. So if you want to clarify DJ, you may want to distinguish how honor typically expresses itself in the type and how that causes you to take offense.

  12. #252
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    *shrugs* I don't really hate itself. I wouldn't say I'm all that great at it, mostly because I'm so paranoid about disapproval that I'm often afraid to push or confront, and because I'm usually too stuck within my own mind and experiences to get out there and just live. I can be pushy on occasion, though. I find myself remembering times in high school where I would sit on an offense until I got royally pissed off and then a) told off the people involved, and sometimes b) threatened to walk away from the friendship. (Of the couple of times I can remember, I actually did, save for with one girl who I'd have to see in Acting and with whom it made sense to be on good terms.) I also wouldn't consider myself to be the "move forward and damn the consequences" sort that I envision base types to be. I think I'd want to throttle someone like that. Like the friend who jacked up a school billboard message because he was bitter about being put into campus community service due to a less-than-merciful RA - he was like, "What, did they expect anything else from me???" when he got in trouble. I remember thinking, "Sure, it's funny, but of course you'd get in trouble for that."

    I'm not very good at enforcing territory unless I'm really comfortable with people, yet my definition of "mine" is a bit too loose and usually extends to whatever (or whomever) I am currently attached. Also, it may sound weird, but I'm far more willing to push the envelope and take risks in video games than in the real world, probably because crashing and burning in the former has far fewer consequences. And to be fair, I can be highly confrontational around the right people. My stepfather gets it the most. I also tend to want to smite "weak" people and tell them to toughen up. I think that comes from listening to my mother complain about my stepfather's lack of spine when I was a teenager.

    I guess that doesn't really answer how I feel toward it, though. Most often, I think, "Yeah, I really need to do that," but it never actually gets done. Maybe it just takes less work to remain stagnant and mediocre, and as my default state, it is comfortable and familiar. And there are other reasons, but I'm not going into them here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    The thing that comes to my mind when I think about people concerned with "honor" is some macho SLE.




    (To be fair, though, I think he radiates testosterone, badassery, and blatant idiocy more than anything else. And I haven't gotten too far into the series,)
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  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    wtf no it doesn't
    Time to open your eyes and smell the roses bud. Fi only understands Fi users.
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    now we know how dj arendee feels about his polr.

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    yeah I'm not very pleased with my Fi polr. I'll be frank.
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    Ti - PoLR in a nutshell:

    "God dammit! Why are people outsmarting me all of the time?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by HandiAce View Post
    Ti - PoLR in a nutshell:

    "God dammit! Why are people outsmarting me all of the time?"
    Eh, I find it just irritates them. I'm really really honestly trying to understand what's going on in their head when a Ti user says "the world is round because: reason 1, reason 2, reason 3" and they flip out. I genuinely honestly want to know wtf emotion they're feeling. Are they frustrated because they feel stupid? Are they frustrated because someone is making them think? Are they jealous? Am I shatting their delusion? Is it an irrational frustration that simply makes no sense? Me and the mbti ISTP's of perC never understood what the problem was. We just know they're unreasonable by our standards when "debating" with us. I don't know how to communicate to them over the internet. Impossible. And in person, they still get upset for reasons I don't understand.

    I was once hanging around an ISFp and an ESFp. I said to the ISFp, "I wonder if there is something in the water that is giving me a sore throat. I've been having problems for the last few days." ESFp says, angrily, "OR, YOU COULD JUST HAVE A FUCKING COLD." We just glare at him somewhat baffled by his response. Just an example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I was once hanging around an ISFp and an ESFp. I said to the ISFp, "I wonder if there is something in the water that is giving me a sore throat. I've been having problems for the last few days." ESFp says, angrily, "OR, YOU COULD JUST HAVE A FUCKING COLD." We just glare at him somewhat baffled by his response. Just an example.
    ahahahahaha

  19. #259
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    Fe is fine as long as I'm not supposed to respond to it directly. Prolonged and constant exposure to Fe tires me and makes me feel uncomfortable.

    Some examples:

    - I hate it when people try to infer my emotional states (and predispositions) through my body language, and use this information to influence my actions.

    - I find things like crowd cheering and cheerleading pointless.

    - I don't display overt joy and merriment unless it comes to me naturally. I dislike being expected to display emotions in general. It makes me uncomfortable.

    - I hate it when I can't concentrate on carrying out my plans because someone gets in my way with their emotions, or redirects my attention to other aspects related to Fe but irrelevant to my goal and making progress. Fe can be a waste of time, energy, and a decline in productivity.

    Fe can be a powerful source of innovation and creativity, which can manifest in art, music, etc. This is the aspect of Fe I admire and think of as the most valuable.

    I also see Fe as a powerful and even scary manipulation tool, which depending on the way it is being used can produce a lot of different consequences.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

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    Ne is annoying. I get paralyzed by large numbers of possibilities and I spend (waste) time evaluating each one. Why can't someone just get to the point?

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    I try not to 'feel' towards my PoLR; but I do 'think' about my PoLR. I recommend that 'What is your view on your polr function' would have been a more neutral title that would invite a more diverse range of opinions because it doesn't predispose the nature of the response.

    Fe is a magical tool that allows people to form cliques. It's not a skill I've ever had, but one can clearly review how past crimes are often a function of Fe behaviour taken to the extreme and it is almost always up to Fi motivations to solve them. As soon as we start rolling up our emotions/ethics into a combined bundle they become a very dangerous force by using the logic that 51% of people can kill 49% of people if it is in their interest.

    What I have always found is that I have better relations with those who have Fe first egos (ESFJ/ENFJ) because they understand the nature of Fi thinking as well as Fe, but particularly bad relations and a personal dislike for those who have Fe in their super-id and think that 'mob rule' is a subsitute for personal responsibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Fe is a magical tool that allows people to form cliques.
    This particular line rings a bell. Don't look farther than this forum...

    Ahem.

    Oh, didn't you mean aristocracy by any stretch?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    This particular line rings a bell. Don't look farther than this forum...

    Ahem.

    Oh, didn't you mean aristocracy by any stretch?
    No, there are a few different flavours of aristocratic types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    No, there are a few different flavours of aristocratic types.
    Same meat different gravy?

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    Quotes on Se, my PoLR:

    outward traits of objects: form, shape, strength, power, readiness, willpower, mobilization, the location of objects in space
    Perceives information about what might be called objects' "kinetic energy" — for example, information about how organized/mobilized a person is, his physical energy and power, and his ability to make use of his willpower or position and exercise his will in opposition to others'. This perception implies the ability to tell what reserves of "kinetic energy" people have and how useful they can be in getting things done. It defines the individual's ability or inability to exercise his willpower and energy in opposition to the will and energy of other people.
    authority, influence, desire, political interest/personal investment, competition/struggle, willpower, impact, force, appearance, readiness, tactics, territory
    a mobilized state full of vitality and energy or implied strength; the desire to make strong, bold, and powerful movements

    These quotes reflect fairly well how my PoLR manifests:

    It should be noted that her reactions might not correspond with the circumstances: she can be both unjustifiably strong and too weak[...]

    [...]Frequently she works haplessly at tasks under the force of an underdeveloped business logic. If forced to make or do something she interprets this as the underestimation of her zeal and may simply discontinue work, while simultaneously an appeal to her feeling of duty can for long periods hold her in the state of business stress.

    The tendency towards the ideal, constant work on herself, from one side, and the difficulty of emotional distress, from the other, lead to the fact that often she gets tired of herself. This often lends to a disorder in the EII’s nervous system. Contact with nature greatly assists her in her struggle to relax; instinctively they aim for the healthy mode of life.

    The EII’s orientation towards household problems tends to be inefficient. Something qualitative to buy, to adequately suture a piece of clothing, laundry… these problems, amongst others, are necessary to deal with. Yet the EII never ceases in spending too much time and energy on each task. She must maintain her sense of cleanliness for living in disorder threatens to weigh heavily upon her; also she considers it shameful to allow others to witness disorder in her living space. The periodic absence of money greatly suppresses her. She feels problems in her household very heavily and thus always attempts to save money “just in case.” Weakness, in the EII’s sense of sensation, is also developed in the fact that she finds it difficult to decide whether something will be needed in the future or not. Therefore she’s inclined to keep things for years, which most other people would have forsaken long ago[...]

    [...]Relates poorly to anything involving violence. While on one hand they resist external pressures, on the other they’re prone to tyrannize themselves internally. Find it difficult to efficiently complete household tasks, organize their budget, and purchase necessary things.
    EIIs are typically negligent of their surroundings and have difficulty keeping track of objects or constantly monitoring things and people around them. They can be passive and self-absorbed, often preferring to wait for things to happen rather than make them happen. As such, they tend to have quite a number of lost opportunities. To a certain extent, EIIs can be oblivious to hints from someone who is romantically interested in them. Therefore, this gives the other party the wrong impression that they are not interested in them.
    Outsiders often think the EII is oblivious to reality because they will often neglect basic needs. Although it is by no means necessary, this may also manifest itself as a general rejection or aversion to violence or force as a means or way of life.
    The individual tends to overreact to aggressive or confrontational behavior, taking it as a personal threat when it may only be a knee-jerk reaction or the result of a bad mood.

    He tends to avoid intruding on others' space or engaging in behavior that may be perceived as coercive, and tries hard to handle his needs by being disciplined and well-prepared himself - rather than relying on others to do things for him. If these strategies fail, his efforts at dealing with the resulting conflict make him look actively pushy in a way that appears awkward and unnatural to others. This opens him up to painful criticism and feelings of weakness and helplessness.

    He is able to moralize and instruct others about what they should do and why, but he is not prepared for others' active resistance or refusal to do as he says. In his mind, this would require him to put aside reason and good feelings and simply make the other person do what is necessary. This is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for him to do.

    Regarding feelings toward PoLRs:

    The element in this function creates a feeling of frustration and inadequacy. A person does not understand the importance of this element entirely, and it can easily lead to painful consequences if not adequately considered.

    However, to directly engage this function creates feelings of insecurity and distress.
    Each type tends to believe that his own Super-Ego functions are meant to be used only for the purposes established by the Ego functions; that is, their application is limited to serving the Ego block's interests. When a person's own interests are not sufficiently developed and people around him pressure him to be more competent with his Super-Ego functions, distress and disappointment result. The psyche is not able to channel energy through the Super-Ego functions long enough to achieve lasting results, which leads to disappointment, guilt, and even neuroses if the individual believes that the development of these functions is the measure of his worth as a person.

    The Super-Ego functions are the source of much self-consciousness. When among strangers or critical onlookers, people tend to suddenly become aware of the possible inadequacy of their Super-Ego functions and often respond in one of two ways:
    • demonstratively act through these functions to create an illusion of confidence
    • demonstratively state their complete incompetency or rejection of these areas

    So:
    - Frustration
    - Inadequacy
    - Insecurity
    - Distress


    Yes, that about sums it up.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  26. #266
    Darn Socks DirectorAbbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    - I find things like crowd cheering and cheerleading pointless.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    - I don't display overt joy and merriment unless it comes to me naturally. I dislike being expected to display emotions in general. It makes me uncomfortable.
    Let's see a fake smile!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  27. #267
    Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozz View Post
    Ne is annoying. I get paralyzed by large numbers of possibilities and I spend (waste) time evaluating each one. Why can't someone just get to the point?
    What does getting to the point have to do with evaluating a large number of possibilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I agree.
    You agree that I find those things pointless? As a Te-ego/base you should invest more effort in expressing your thoughts accurately and with clarity.
    Last edited by Park; 10-03-2012 at 06:00 PM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  28. #268
    Darn Socks DirectorAbbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    You agree that I find those things pointless? As a Te-ego/base you should invest more effort in expressing your thoughts accurately and with clarity.
    I agree that cheering crowds and cheer-leading are pointless.

    In high school, I sat through those annoying pep rallies until I realized they were optional. Then I did something better with my time: playing computer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  29. #269
    Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I agree that cheering crowds and cheer-leading are pointless.
    But I didn't say they are pointless, I said I find them pointless. You agreed with the latter. (Do you see the difference?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    In high school, I sat through those annoying pep rallies until I realized they were optional. Then I did something better with my time: playing computer.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  30. #270
    you can go to where your heart is Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    In high school, I sat through those annoying pep rallies until I realized they were optional. Then I did something better with my time: playing computer.
    Is this like the 21st century equivalent to playing house? Is this what children do nowadays?

  31. #271
    Darn Socks DirectorAbbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    But I didn't say they are pointless, I said I find them pointless. You agreed with the latter. (Do you see the difference?)
    I agree with your findings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  32. #272
    "Information without energy is useless" Nowisthetime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I might agree with you on that, LOL

    although Fi is pretty useless in a practical sense. It just makes you think everyone feels the same as you when they don't. It also makes up abstract things to argue over like "honor." Useless.
    Well, remember that the polr function is especially sensitive. Fi polrs are sensitive to things like dishonor, disrespect, lack of decency. It's a conscious function. You brought these things up in your videos yourself, I remember.

    It might sound paradoxical but my biggest source of conscious Fi is from ILEs I know, because they are acutely aware of Fi. They often bring it up and complain.

  33. #273
    Feel God's Thunder Azure Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nowisthetime View Post
    Well, remember that the polr function is especially sensitive. Fi polrs are sensitive to things like dishonor, disrespect, lack of decency. It's a conscious function. You brought these things up in your videos yourself, I remember.

    It might sound paradoxical but my biggest source of conscious Fi is from ILEs I know, because they are acutely aware of Fi. They often bring it up and complain.
    I'm sensitive to them but don't fully realize what's happening unless I think about it. But at this point I'm so used to what Fi looks like I can point it out from a ways away.
    Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings



    Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja

  34. #274
    Feel God's Thunder Azure Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Fe is fine as long as I'm not supposed to respond to it directly. Prolonged and constant exposure to Fe tires me and makes me feel uncomfortable.

    Some examples:

    - I hate it when people try to infer my emotional states (and predispositions) through my body language, and use this information to influence my actions.

    - I find things like crowd cheering and cheerleading pointless.

    - I don't display overt joy and merriment unless it comes to me naturally. I dislike being expected to display emotions in general. It makes me uncomfortable.

    - I hate it when I can't concentrate on carrying out my plans because someone gets in my way with their emotions, or redirects my attention to other aspects related to Fe but irrelevant to my goal and making progress. Fe can be a waste of time, energy, and a decline in productivity.

    Fe can be a powerful source of innovation and creativity, which can manifest in art, music, etc. This is the aspect of Fe I admire and think of as the most valuable.

    I also see Fe as a powerful and even scary manipulation tool, which depending on the way it is being used can produce a lot of different consequences.
    Interesting. I have no problem faking emotions, but I can't stand when people want me to legitimately FEEL enthusiastic for something I have absolutely none for. That'll make me go crazy right quick.
    Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings



    Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja

  35. #275
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Eh, I find it just irritates them. I'm really really honestly trying to understand what's going on in their head when a Ti user says "the world is round because: reason 1, reason 2, reason 3" and they flip out. I genuinely honestly want to know wtf emotion they're feeling. Are they frustrated because they feel stupid? Are they frustrated because someone is making them think? Are they jealous? Am I shatting their delusion? Is it an irrational frustration that simply makes no sense? Me and the mbti ISTP's of perC never understood what the problem was. We just know they're unreasonable by our standards when "debating" with us. I don't know how to communicate to them over the internet. Impossible. And in person, they still get upset for reasons I don't understand.

    I was once hanging around an ISFp and an ESFp. I said to the ISFp, "I wonder if there is something in the water that is giving me a sore throat. I've been having problems for the last few days." ESFp says, angrily, "OR, YOU COULD JUST HAVE A FUCKING COLD." We just glare at him somewhat baffled by his response. Just an example.


    And yeah, I'll blow my stack if I see someone thinking, as if the world were to remain perfectly still for them to jack their brains off. It's like they think they're in some hermetically-sealed sanctuary or some shit. Everything's magically paused while their eyes go blank, they cock their heads up a bit, and waste everyone's time by doing nothing. At work, I make sure to go as fast as I can and I want to be physically stronger so I can roar through everything and there's no opportunity for anything to get derailed by that crap.

    Another thing that pisses me the hell off is if someone tells me to do something one way, and then someone else tells me to do something a completely different way. I'll want to rip the second person's head right off. Because they said what they said, now someone's conditions are gonna get let down and likely so are they. The first person provided clarity. The second person destroyed all of that. If it gets bad enough, I'll have to round up everyone and make sure a solid and clear decision on how to do stuff gets made.
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  36. #276
    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post

    Another thing that pisses me the hell off is if someone tells me to do something one way, and then someone else tells me to do something a completely different way. I'll want to rip the second person's head right off. Because they said what they said, now someone's conditions are gonna get let down and likely so are they. The first person provided clarity. The second person destroyed all of that. If it gets bad enough, I'll have to round up everyone and make sure a solid and clear decision on how to do stuff gets made.
    That bothers me too...when there is contradictory information presented to me. I then find myself doubting everything and asking everyone I can for input of what is the right way...which usually leads nowhere. So then I go bonkers.
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


  37. #277
    Feel God's Thunder Azure Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post


    And yeah, I'll blow my stack if I see someone thinking, as if the world were to remain perfectly still for them to jack their brains off. It's like they think they're in some hermetically-sealed sanctuary or some shit. Everything's magically paused while their eyes go blank, they cock their heads up a bit, and waste everyone's time by doing nothing. At work, I make sure to go as fast as I can and I want to be physically stronger so I can roar through everything and there's no opportunity for anything to get derailed by that crap.

    Another thing that pisses me the hell off is if someone tells me to do something one way, and then someone else tells me to do something a completely different way. I'll want to rip the second person's head right off. Because they said what they said, now someone's conditions are gonna get let down and likely so are they. The first person provided clarity. The second person destroyed all of that. If it gets bad enough, I'll have to round up everyone and make sure a solid and clear decision on how to do stuff gets made.
    That was a nice passionate response. Would you venture to say we have a sense of entitlement because we do this? That we think everyone should just sit around and wait for us? I find a lot of Te doms tell me I have a sense of entitlement. I never have any idea what they're talking about, I wonder if this is part of it? For me especially, I'll zone out into a sort of meditation while still taking in subliminal information from around me. Its really odd how it works, Idunno if that's just an SLE-Ti thing or all Ti's though. I'm often aware of everything going on immediately around me on a subliminal level.

    I once told a kid on an expedition, "hey, you should have eaten all those noodles that fell on the ground." He said, "... I JUST said that... like literally 5 seconds ago." I said, "oh... that must have been where I got the idea."

    Regardless of your response, yes. Our body freezes in place when we go into Ti mode. But the thing is, the world disappears as well, like all noises and people and emotions cease to exist unless they're loud, sharp and sudden and trigger our reflexes. I find I got incredibly frustrated with Te dominants in the military because they tried to kick that habit out of me, like it was a bad thing, but its uncontrollable. I have no way of stopping it, and if someone stops it from happening, my brain actually starts to get very cluttered and I'll start getting really indecisive, pacing back and forth etc because every task needs to be accomplished at once and every task is a priority. agh! frustrating. Although the LSE's usually stopped bothering me after I told them, "Listen, I'll let you be hard charging, why don't you let me be slow and methodical. We have different methods, both work just as well as the other." They seem to be thinking, "omg he's different than me? that's amazing!" and seem to respect my boundaries more after that.

    Although I don't understand what conflicting commands have to do with Ti, that's just lazy communication across all personalities.
    Last edited by Azure Flame; 10-05-2012 at 01:44 PM.
    Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings



    Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja

  38. #278
    c esi-se 6w7 spsx ashlesha's Avatar
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    I can understand the esfp snapping about it but I'm not sure how to explain why. like, people get colds all the time but when you get one you're so special and different that it's ~ something in the water~ idk I'm just reflexively annoyed about it for some reason.

  39. #279
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I know how I feel towards my own dual's PoLR function; I am highly annoyed by their poor judge of timing. But, I don't take additional measures to point it out to them; I feel the same way about my own; I'm highly annoyed by it but don't want someone to constantly emphasize it.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  40. #280
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    Truck ran me over today and I died in hospital, so I tell my friend, must be something I ate.

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