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Thread: How do you cope with your PoLR? Reactions and compensation.

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    Default How do you cope with your PoLR? Reactions and compensation.

    could we have some examples here? Let me know if there is already a thread.

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    In terms of my having to communicate something, I attempt to focus on defining the actions and/or circumstances involved, allowing the other person to get a gist of how those things are related. Sometimes it works, most times an INxp or IxTj get aggravated with me because I'm not pointing directly at the actual relationships I'm noticing.

    In terms of receiving communications, I'd rather see the relationships set up as a diagram of some sort so that I can just look at where the concepts are located in relation to each other and get the gist of what's being described. It also makes it easy for me if it's simple enough that i can take a mental photograph of the diagram so that i can refer to it whenever I need to work with that info....thus allowing me to build up whatever information I need from it at the time that I need it instead of having to memorize a bunch of seemingly random words/connections.

    The first is attempting to Te my Fi information.
    The second is preferring to have Ti information already Si'd so that I can Fi it easily.
    Probably the most aggravating thing is when I have to Si someone's Ti information myself. These usually leads to weeks of work and massive headaches and restless sleep attempts all to figure out one little page of information....which I later usually discover to have been worthless info to begin with....
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    The best way for an INTj (and perhaps INFj) to cope with his PoLR is to use self-control in confrontations, making the other party seem petulant and foolish.

    SFVB said something about it here:

    http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...hlight=#192482

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    Default How do you cope with your PoLR? Reactions, fears, improvement and protection.

    POLR is like a special poison. You can only handle limited amounts at a time, and it is your lowest tolerance. But the muscle built there can be strong, because the foundation, unlike anything else, is one you build completely by your own doing.

    The way I see it, POLR is the aspect of reality you try to avoid most. And yet, for me, just because it is uncomfortable that does not mean it is any less real or true than what you are comfortable with.

    I wonder if it is related to your ability to understand the truth of things in general. Just like how an infant is incompetent in taking care of itself, and yet grows to be an adult.



    Any thoughts?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Thanks for mentioning this. I agree with you that one's POLr can in fact become stronger, because it has the most room for growth and improvement. If someone consciously focuses on it and becomes aware that it's weak, they can take steps to combat this weakness, instead of just wallowing helplessly. Also, by acknowledging and facing your POLr, you realize that you actually CAN deal with it. I, for one, can be really good at keeping track of money, being organized, and being assertive when I apply myself. It just doesn't come naturally.
    Sorry I couldn't be more insightful. This was more of a "moral support" type response, haha.
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    *steps in front of the infp....blocking him out of the limelight :wink: *

    okok fine
    *steps to the side to allow half of him to show through*



    udp..
    i agree.
    i've been spending some time recently trying to learn how to program using Python. I'm using a book that is pretty good at guiding through it step by step, making mini games as i go along (the book tells me what it wants me to create). I'm in the fourth chapter, last challenge, second time through to the fourth chapter, last challenge. And I'm kicking and screaming the whole way through on this one. It's requiring far more mental planning and ensuring the system works than anything i've ever done. I can't just slip through it like i usually do with things. i have to focus on details. and i hate hate hate details. well, these kind. relationship details between people...i like that stuff.

    but i feel so...great...when i finish even the simplest programs. Like..it's a major accomplishment.


    (and even on the forum a while back, i always relished in the "good jobs" given me by entps and intjs and intps too...hehehe)
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    Quote Originally Posted by uninspired
    Thanks for mentioning this.
    ....
    Sorry I couldn't be more insightful. This was more of a "moral support" type response, haha.
    You are welcome, and, your response is appreciated. So is Ann's, to be fair :wink: .
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Aw, thanks UDP.

    Also, I have something interesting to share about developing INTj's PoLR, or what seems to be related to PoLR.

    One of my philosophy professors, who was INTj (and one of the awesomest people I've ever met), focused a good deal of his studies and his classes on confronting his [s:1063137c96]POLr[/s:1063137c96].

    His focus was East Asian Philosophy, specifically Taoist and Chan (or Zen) Buddhist philosophy. The running theme in our Intro class was living in the moment - learning to free yourself from all of your internal thoughts and preconceived notions and just addressing what's right in front of you, as if you had nothing else at your disposal. He really focused on moment-to-moment living, not just in the context of Asian philosophy, but Western philosophy as well (he really loved Nietzsche's doctrine of Eternal Recurrence).

    He also was an avid meditator and Tai Chi practitioner, and played the banjo .

    EDIT: After reading labcoat's post, I've reconsidered. It seems that he was focusing on his hidden agenda instead of his PoLR. I got confused when I equated with being in the moment, when can represent that as well.
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    Dealing with your PoLR function is self-defeating, as any energy you award to that function substracts from what you can give to your creative function, essentially meaning you'll be forcing yourself into quadra progression. Reinforce your hidden agenda instead for some real effects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    Dealing with your PoLR function is self-defeating, as any energy you award to that function substracts from what you can give to your creative function, essentially meaning you'll be forcing yourself into quadra progression. Reinforce your hidden agenda instead for some real effects.
    This is absolutely true in theory, as the super-ego block is supposed to be what you don't value (by definition).
    But in reality, I agree with UDP that we must go beyond Socionics and see that every function is valuable. However, you don't necessarily deal each function head on or in the same way.

    It is also true that sometimes when people think they're reinforcing PoLR, it really is HA. For example an LII professor stressing "being in the moment" is probably stressing Si, not Se.

    As to PoLR being defined as "what you want to avoid most"...I'm not sure if that's true in practice. It's often said, though.

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    To me "facing your porl" can be thought of as another way of expanding your leading function. Instead of running away from an aspect of life or reality that you do not like, you find ways to accept it and live with it - such as through HA.

    I refuse to avoid any part of the truth. You have to rationalize your existence as it is somewhat, but that does not mean you have to avoid exploring, or seeking to understand.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    Dealing with your PoLR function is self-defeating, as any energy you award to that function substracts from what you can give to your creative function, essentially meaning you'll be forcing yourself into quadra progression. Reinforce your hidden agenda instead for some real effects.
    Absolutely. Unless you're a masochist, don't force yourself to deal with the PoLR. I have been heavily in Se mode lately, and it's made me depressed and unable to properly develop my quadra functions (now that you mention it, especially Ne).

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    Dealing with your PoLR function is self-defeating, as any energy you award to that function substracts from what you can give to your creative function, essentially meaning you'll be forcing yourself into quadra progression. Reinforce your hidden agenda instead for some real effects.
    Absolutely. Unless you're a masochist, don't force yourself to deal with the PoLR. I have been heavily in Se mode lately, and it's made me depressed and unable to properly develop my quadra functions (now that you mention it, especially Ne).
    You seem to have not understood what I said in the first post of this thread.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    Dealing with your PoLR function is self-defeating, as any energy you award to that function substracts from what you can give to your creative function, essentially meaning you'll be forcing yourself into quadra progression. Reinforce your hidden agenda instead for some real effects.
    Absolutely. Unless you're a masochist, don't force yourself to deal with the PoLR. I have been heavily in Se mode lately, and it's made me depressed and unable to properly develop my quadra functions (now that you mention it, especially Ne).
    You seem to have not understood what I said in the first post of this thread.
    What I was trying to say is that it does not constitute a failing on your part, and until you stop believing that, you are limiting yourself more than any function possibly could.

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    But how can you, as an INTj, or a human being, consciously avoid the truth, or even part of the truth? Or even one chance possibility of understanding something more fully?

    I cannot turn away from that. I only feel stronger from my studies, not weakened or depressed.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    But how can you, as an INTj, or a human being, consciously avoid the truth, or even part of the truth? Or even one chance possibility of understanding something more fully?
    "Truth"? Using a function is different from understanding it, which is of course a worthy goal.

    I cannot turn away from that. I only feel stronger from my studies, not weakened or depressed.
    Honestly, I'll take your word for it. Whether it is really unhealthy is not for me to decide.

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    i agree that you can improve on your polr but not to the point to where it has become a strength. rick's suggestion is that you can develop "rules of thumb" for weak functions, thus strengthening them somewhat. depending on what your polr is, there may be reasons for putting some energy into developing one's polr. for entp's it's essential to develop the polr or there would be too many relational consequences. and i would venture to say the same for estp's as well.

    i also agree that using your hidden agenda can help somewhat. but using myself as an example, Fe is not Fi. sooner or later i have to deal with Fi. i mean i guess i use Fe to improve relationships, but my goal or focus still has to be on the specific relationship that needs improvement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi
    What does it mean for a function to be "strong" or "weak".
    That you're secure of the input you reiceve from that function. It says nothing about the correctness of the input, though.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi
    What does it mean for a function to be "strong" or "weak".
    That you're secure of the input you reiceve from that function. It says nothing about the correctness of the input, though.
    Yes.



    In no way am I trying to "shift" my functions, or move my porl to creative or leading. No - that is not what I am getting at. The polr is still the polr, you just do not pretend it is not real, or is not a factor, or it is not a realty - you accept it. There are many instances of people simply pretending like the polr aspect of reality simply does not exist, and they find a sort of comfort or aloofness from this, it is a security measure of sorts. Perhaps that is a good way to think about it - your polr is related to staying humble, and staying in touch with (the whole of) reality.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Is PoLR your function of gullibility?

    I've noticed that I am vulnerable to suggestions of "mysterious, unknown forces". I've further discerned that ENFps and ESFps seem vulnerable to the most outlandish ideas as to how structures/beauracracies work. Obviously our president (U.S.) is getting big flak for his recent executive decisions.

    There was an interview in EGM with the director of Final Fantasy XIII recently (Nomura), saying that he "respected the ties and bonds he has formed" in the industry with regard to which systems he does and does not support. Given that he's an INFp, that seems pretty PoLR to me.

    There are many instances of people simply pretending like the polr aspect of reality simply does not exist, and they find a sort of comfort or aloofness from this, it is a security measure of sorts.
    Yes, and it's a problem. A big problem. When you have someone in authority making waves without respecting their PoLR, there will always, always be trouble. We see this problem every day in the events of our world, all the more reason to make society socionics-aware.

    In fact, I intend to use socionics as a weapon one day to publically rebuke theorists who attempt to belittle their PoLR by way of their theories, thus clearing the way for the humble attitudes that create real scientific advance. Looking at our world from the lense of a PoLR-aware person, I can be little more than disgusted. I respect my supervisors' opinions and so should others.

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    Yes.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Wow.... recapturing a recent experience....

    When you win something that has to do with your porl, it feels extremely good. Maybe that is just how Se is in general (when you win it is great, and lose ,not so much).

    Sometimes it seems like you want to use it more, if the rewards are that good......
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Wow.... recapturing a recent experience....

    When you win something that has to do with your porl, it feels extremely good. Maybe that is just how Se is in general (when you win it is great, and lose ,not so much).

    Sometimes it seems like you want to use it more, if the rewards are that good......
    yep
    i relished in the compliments i had gotten a few months back regarding my reasoning abilities.
    while i knew i wasn't quite doing what many people "accused" me of doing (i say accused cuz..well...heh)
    and they wouldn't listen to me when i tried telling them how i was doing it....
    it still felt good to get the compliments cuz it meant that i was learning how to adapt/develop something i'd never been that good with before.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Wow.... recapturing a recent experience....

    When you win something that has to do with your porl, it feels extremely good. Maybe that is just how Se is in general (when you win it is great, and lose ,not so much).

    Sometimes it seems like you want to use it more, if the rewards are that good......
    Honestly, that sounds more like an Ego element than PoLR to me. I really think you could be ISTj; there isn't much evidence against it.

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    I wonder if Tcaus exertion theory would come into play here.

    Interpersonally, I am extremely aggressive - the only stipulation in terms of my past action being the aggressiveness I show in pursuit of women. However, it should be noted that the approaches I get from caregiver women are extremely rare, if at all. *

    Ideologically however, it seems unlikely I am anything other than Ne in terms of how I have compared numerous systems to create my own. But in the creation of my own system, I enforce it like an ISTj would, essentially.


    *I believe the real factor, in terms of whether or not I would do better with an ENFj or ESFj for example, is whether or not I will begin to show more open aggressiveness in pursuit of women and other people in general. We will have to see about that. And then again, my main objective as I see it is not finding a relationship - finding a partner and being happy in the typical human way. * - the other aspect of this asterisk is that I have not found anyone I really want to be with yet. When I am interested in someone -- kind of like how I was/am about Ms Virginia -- and I trust in their ethical principles, I believe I am/can be very forward.


    PS: Actually, honestly, my assertiveness towards other people is directly related to how compatible their ethical principles are, their character - and how well we would mesh in that way. I know a lot of attractive ESFps or irrational types, but I realize it just would not work out in my sort of way. But when I find people who seem sane or have a good, healthy outlook on life, the more I desire to establish connections with them - this is especially so in terms of a personal relationship. F leading of some time, for certain.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Default How do you cope with your PoLR? Reactions, fears, and protection.

    How do you do it? I know that as an INFp, I live in a -rich environment in which I'm expected to be well-versed in facts, figures, and methodology. To be successful in this environment, I must adapt to it rather than withdraw from it. How should I go about this, and how should everyone go about protecting their particular PoLR?
    My current strategy is this: when faced with ESTjs, I try to protect my PoLR by using my hidden agenda (). In essence, I try to take on the role of an LII or an LSI by being very logical, matter of fact, imperturbable, and emotionally distant to minimize the appearance of vulnerability. It's hard, though, because ESTjs can be incredibly in-your-face and demanding.
    In impersonal matters involving my PoLR, specifically academics, I just buckle down and remind myself that the PoLR activity is critical to something I want to achieve with my ego block. For example, by majoring in psychology, I force myself to focus extra-hard on Statistics () so that I can be prepared to use them when researching effective counseling methods ( ).
    How do you all cope with your PoLR?
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    Hmm.. I guess I've got it kinda easy with mine. I don't have to worry much about my if I'm in the company of people I'm already friends with, and I just avoid socialising with strangers where possible. If I have to do so for any length of time, I just keep things brief and polite. So I suppose more than anything helps guard my then.. assuming I have any clue whatsoever about what I'm talking about.
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    You put yourself in an environment that allows you to maximize your Primary functions while minimizing the discomfort brought about by your PoLR.
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    Problems with the PoLR occur when one is expected to have a certain attitude towards or focus on life when one would rather take the opposite attitude to it. In the case of the INTj it is the 'grab what you can' attitude that is avoided and the 'find the democratic solution' attitude that takes pecedence.

    When you run into a person who has your PoLR function as a creative function there is an adequate matching of powers: neither side really feels threatened and just sticks to using the creative function when it is really necessary... (own experience)

    When, however, a person with a complementary function to either creative function enters the scene, the person of the opposite attitude is in trouble. The climate is then set, normal behavior defined, and the verdict of the environment set to 'condemning'.

    (A related comment: types opposite in the static/dynamic dimension are ordinarily seen as 'one with the environment'.)

    Now let's take the classical case of a supervision. The supervisor has a very determined view on what the normal attitude in regard to the function in question is, whereas the supervisee is less determined; seeing that function only as means to an end -- a tool -- and to make matters worse for him, also does not agree with the supervisor on which attitude in regard to it the correct one is. In the case of ESTp and INTj, the attitudes could be summarized as: 'everyone always grabs what they can' and 'when things go awry, I should find the democratic solution'.

    (again, related; Ni is better characterized as: 'find out what you can grab')

    How to protect yourself against it? Kind of hard to answer. Every animal has natural enemies; predators that hunt it. There's not always a way out of the dilemma. What's interesting, though, is that if we follow the logic of the previous examples, having your supervisor's contrary or illusionary partner on your side may proove very effective as a defence. There will be a natural testing of powers between Mr. supervisor and his contrary. One in which the balance is tilted in the favor of whichever of the two has an ally on their side...

    Anyone want to try if that actually works?

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    I agree that it's best to place yourself in an environment with like-minded companions to minimize stress and maximize personal growth. I don't agree, however, that you necessarily need your supervisor's contrary or illusionary to fight your way through a situation involving disparate points of view. I believe that you can develop your hidden agenda and yes, even your PoLR, to the extent that you can have basic, agreeable communication with your supervisor and your conflictor. I grew up with my supervisor (ENTj), so I know a bit more about what to expect from them than most others of my type. I've learned that to minimize conflict, I must be clear, specific, effortful, and tactful. These simple rules are part of the dry, math-like logic that I use in social situations to minimize PoLR hits. Socionics has helped tremendously, because the information it has provided tells me what others are looking for so that I can give it to them. Prior to studying Socionics, I didn't fully understand what others needed, so I didn't always know what to give them. And although Socionics is an inexact science, having a general idea about someone else's needs is much better than no idea at all.
    So, my point is, if you know what you need to arm yourself with in battle, you have the power to obtain it and use it.
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    Default polr

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    I guess the way I would put it is that the general view on this forum of what PoLR is way exaggerated overall. People tend to think of the PoLR as the area in which one is most sensitive, combatitive...and that basically it represents a sort of black hole. My understanding is that the PoLR (or vulnerable function) is really just an area that a person doesn't see as relevant, so that if one is criticized in that area, one has a reaction like "why is that person criticizing me for THAT?" or "why is that even important" or one is blind-sided and not even expecting that criticism, because one's awareness is lacking in that area.

    Also, many people seem to think that people cannot appreciate/respect other people's use of the IM element that's one's vulnerable function. I believe that's a myth. People often do appreciate and respect the strengths of their super-ego and conflict types.
    I think people do appreciate the strengths of their superego and conflict types.. but doesn't it seem a contradiction that one respects it when not directed towards him and yet doesn't like being criticized in himself? Does the quote mean that they would see the value of criticism but doesn't see how he himself failed in that area because he is blind to it?

    I also wanted to talk about polr criticism of those of one's own type. I do this, but don't like it when others do it to me. I would say that I am sensitive to my polr, for sure. So.. I guess I'm saying that this criticism was a little exaggerated as well?

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    I think you like you own 3rd + 4th functions, but when someone else uses their own version, it's kinda painful. Freud said that the Super-Ego acts as our conscience\paternal figure, so you only like your version of it, or something.
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    yeah... PoLR is just another name for the fourth function. Look at any Model-A description and whatever they say about the 4th function, that's the PoLR.

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    how do you pronounce "polr?"

    at the conference in new york there were a number of people saying "polar." am i the only person that reads this as P-O-L-R?

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    bionic is trying to intentionally deceive you.


    polr stands for "process of [functional] linear regression." it refers to the synthesis of internal statics of dynamics and external fields of statics in the functions of accepting introverted intuition, creative introverted sensing, accepting introverted ethics, and creative introverted logic.


    when one talks about a polr hit, they mean a significant lack of use of one of these particular functions (caused by the repression of fields by the external dynamic elements).


    similarly, the ignorance of matters pertaining to the polr has to do with the interference of external statics. when movement is no longer created by the process of internal dynamic field redimensioning, the external statics automatically take over and completely dominate the perception of external fields, making the polr functions virtually unusable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    bionic is trying to intentionally deceive you.


    polr stands for "process of [functional] linear regression." it refers to the synthesis of internal statics of dynamics and external fields of statics in the functions of accepting introverted intuition, creative introverted sensing, accepting introverted ethics, and creative introverted logic.


    when one talks about a polr hit, they mean a significant lack of use of one of these particular functions (caused by the repression of fields by the external dynamic elements).


    similarly, the ignorance of matters pertaining to the polr has to do with the interference of external statics. when movement is no longer created by the process of internal dynamic field redimensioning, the external statics automatically take over and completely dominate the perception of external fields, making the polr functions virtually unusable.
    kitty?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    bionic is trying to intentionally deceive you.


    polr stands for "process of [functional] linear regression." it refers to the synthesis of internal statics of dynamics and external fields of statics in the functions of accepting introverted intuition, creative introverted sensing, accepting introverted ethics, and creative introverted logic.


    when one talks about a polr hit, they mean a significant lack of use of one of these particular functions (caused by the repression of fields by the external dynamic elements).


    similarly, the ignorance of matters pertaining to the polr has to do with the interference of external statics. when movement is no longer created by the process of internal dynamic field redimensioning, the external statics automatically take over and completely dominate the perception of external fields, making the polr functions virtually unusable.
    kitty?

    sorry, the correct answer was π²/6. better luck next time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    how do you pronounce "polr?"

    at the conference in new york there were a number of people saying "polar." am i the only person that reads this as P-O-L-R?
    i would actually like input on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    how do you pronounce "polr?"

    at the conference in new york there were a number of people saying "polar." am i the only person that reads this as P-O-L-R?
    i would actually like input on this.
    I say "polar" in my head when I read it... I've never had the occasion to say it out loud so far as I remember.

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    i say "pol'r" like "poler" not "polar".

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