View Poll Results: Should we redefine Si for SEIs?

Voters
15. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    5 33.33%
  • No

    10 66.67%
Results 1 to 40 of 142

Thread: [poll] Should we redefine Si for SEIs?

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Baqer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    TIM
    ILE-De
    Posts
    541
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Alright so I was looking through some talanov stuff to find stuff about Si and i ended up looking at the properties most linked to SEI more than any other type and the top 3 are "Overweight, High vascular reactivity in response to excitement (turns pale or reddens), and dislikes rock music." Now of course I'd like to note that over half of russians are overweight anyway, so I'm genuinely baffled how in the world overweightness is the single most SEI characteristic, but it is hilarious. "SEI's are 6.14 times more likely to be overweight than the average population" is now a thing I can say. Old data, still weird it was the most common trait though.

    Uhh, either way, Si stuff.

    Since this is specifically about SEI seemingly, i'll post a list of things that distinguish IEI and SEI(This is more recent data btw, unlike the thing i talked about in the first paragraph)

    This first list is things that are more common for SEI's:

    1. I like to read and study the history and almost perfect "on the machine" know what took place in different parts of the planet at the same time intervals a hundred or two hundred years ago. 2. I very toughly and confidently defend my position in front of people of greater power and status.
    3. Compared to other people of my gender, I have a more "bass" voice (5 or 4 - if so, 3 - if without features, 1 or 2 - if, on the contrary, a thinner voice)
    4. I just communicate with people - they are almost always seem to me pretty, and I do not feel any fears or barriers.
    5. Historical events are always well interconnected in my head - their simultaneity with other events of this period in other parts of the planet, analogies with other periods, as well as their causal relationship with each other.
    6. I keep my word, even if it is not profitable for me.
    7. The present is more or less clear to me, but the future is incomprehensible and therefore of little interest.
    8. I am concerned about my health.
    9. When someone does something disgusting towards people even I don't know, I almost always intervene, because I can’t otherwise.
    10. Throughout a long conversation, I perfectly remember all its turning points and details, all the main phrases of the interlocutor.
    11. Compared to many other people, the pupils in my eyes are usually small and narrow, like dots.
    12. I have always been interested in the laws of development of society, civilization.
    13. Sometimes I "annoy" others with my tutelage.
    14. There are often days (there are about half of them or more) when I often think about the common or someone else's good than about my own.
    15. I eat no more than others, but I am a gourmet, and in the search and selection of especially delicious food I am very selective and selective.
    16. I believe in the need to serve the community
    . 17. Usually, I can only focus on one thing at a time.
    18. I like philosophy and science
    19. At school, I showed an ability to draw with almost photographic accuracy.
    20. My lifestyle has a lot of pleasant physical activity and a lot of physical activity.
    21. For my stories, an eventful sequence and continuity is characteristic - it is not usual for me to mix episodes from different moments of time in my story, putting them in the neighborhood on some non-temporal basis.
    22. Try the following tasks (perform as you read each task): first, go back and forth with your tongue along the inner surface of the lower teeth; then along the inner surface of the upper teeth; then lick the outer, outer surface of the upper teeth with your tongue; then the outer outer surface of the lower teeth; then, with the tip of your tongue, lick the right corner of your mouth from the outside; then the left corner of the mouth; then lick your upper lip from left to right; then inflate one right cheek; then only one left; then click your tongue; then whistle through your lips; then depict how the liquid is sipped through a straw and how a match is blown out. If all the tasks, without exception, were given absolutely easily, without mistakes and without difficulty, put yourself "5", if you managed to do everything, but there was some particular difficulty, put "4". If there were difficulties or mistakes in two or three tasks, put "3", if in four or five tasks, put "2". If difficulties or errors occurred in six or more tasks, put "1".
    23. Always think in advance about the possible consequences of their actions.
    24. What is more likely to arouse your interest and concern if you can choose your field of work in government? - 1) Sports victories of the country. 5) The health of a mass of people
    25. Quite often I discuss my own or someone else's well-being, pleasant or unpleasant sensations, I wonder what hurts where - in general, for me these are normal topics of conversation.

    And this second one more common for IEI's:

    1. Do you have visual images in your head during the day? 1) No, even if you close your eyes and really, really try to see at least something. 2) Yes, but vague, gray and unstable, and only with great concentration 3) I can mentally see something with my eyes closed, even integral and colorful, but I cannot hold the image and control the images 4) Closing my eyes, I easily call "by ordering "bright colored images of any object or person 5) I can evoke and see an imaginary visual image, bright and colored, not only with my eyes closed, but even with my eyes open - against the background of the environment
    2. I am emotionally" uneven "and not very stable.
    3. I know how to persistently beg - I know how to seize the best moment when you can approach a person with a request.
    4. In comparison with peers of my gender, I have a "thinner", higher voice ("5" if so; "1" if vice versa; "3" if exactly at the middle level).
    5. Sometimes it seems to me that behind my back people are laughing at me.
    6. In a dream, without waking up, I sometimes start to say something out loud.
    7. I have frequent mood swings.
    8. Quite often I am not restrained, I show anger or aggression.
    9. I often have all sorts of fears or panic states.
    10. I usually miss it when people around me talk about politics or science.
    11. I am a person with kind, although sometimes sad humor, soft and pleasant in communication.
    12. I know that I am smart, but I usually find it difficult to show it to others.
    13. I am not interested in theoretical discussions.
    14. I have some obsessive fears or sometimes obsessive and ridiculous "forbidden desires" arise - although, of course, I do not succumb to them (such as to rip the stop crane in the car or do something else ridiculous and forbidden)
    15. If a person wants to hear some pleasant lie about himself, then I am ready to tell it without any problems.
    16. I drink little and rarely, my body does not need a lot of water.
    17. Perhaps I sometimes devote too much time to "mental chewing", too often weighing, thinking and evaluating, reasoning around the bush, instead of just doing and moving on.
    18. It is true that which is profitable at the moment.
    19. I am able to find joy even in insignificant and ordinary events.
    20. I am an esthete in the choice of food.
    21. I can inspire myself not to see some person or some thing - and I really won't see them for some time, even if I look directly at them.
    22. Sometimes the voices sounding in the head become uncontrollable and annoying.
    23. I love power, pressure and strength in people.
    24. If a person has trusted you, then he is at your complete disposal.
    25. I have nothing to do with the names and life stories of those who ruled the country in the last century.


    These results are also a bit weird, but still give a pretty clear distinguish between Ni and Si in some clear ways. Also between Ne and Se suggestive as well.

    Finally, for what's probably the most relevant data, we have a 2016 paper done by talanov about specifically what defines Si.
    http://sociotoday.narod.ru/funkc_ws.html
    here's a link for people whose lives are so devoid of anything, they feel it would be a good use of their time to read paragraph upon paragraphs of(mostly) scientific giberish.

    I'm not gonna pretend I read all of this or even know what the purpose of this is, I'm just gonna copy paste some statements that seem relevant.

    Things are put on a scale of 1-15 to how defining it is for Si, 1 being the most important and 15 being the least
    (Note, since this is google translated there are some very WACKY wordings of things. Just assume if it's whatever option makes the most sense. This is also russian culture we're talking here, so keep that in mind)
    "
    1.

    loves to tinker with animals
    likes to tinker with plants
    problems with the perception and construction of complex speech utterances (correlated with a low assessment of their intelligence)
    sensorimotor dominance of the left hemisphere cortex (dominance of the right eye, right ear, right arm and right leg is a common tendency for all 4 cases)
    2.
    eye, the development of the internal "brain" map of the surrounding space
    good spatial imagination, development of volumetric-spatial representations, mental turn operations
    emasculation of the future tense in the mind - unwillingness and inability to think about the future, make forecasts, versions and make plans; concentration of attention and interests in the current minute
    uncharacteristic thoughts about the past, the version of the past does not model
    unnatural symptoms of akathisia
    uncharacteristic motor obsessions
    uncharacteristic insomnia
    love of fishing as a pleasant hobby
    broad-boned, stocky build, broad shoulders, broad face, wide hips
    tendency to be overweight, high mass-growth Quetelet index(Hey look, at least it isn't the most defining characteristic this time)
    3.
    focus on the sensations of your body, attention to all sorts of special sensations (with an emphasis on the dynamics of sensations or their unusualness)
    increased attention to gustatory sensations, their high sensitivity
    the brightness of voluntarily evoked mental visual images (but not against the will or independently of it arising)
    memory for sounds, ease of mental reproduction of sounds from memory
    craving for comfort, significant concentration around him of all thoughts and interests
    avoiding "negative" or simply redundant information that spoils the mood or makes you think
    a good sense of the signals of your body (with an emphasis on their pragmatism and their momentary statics)
    attention to the appearance of objects
    memory for smells, ease of mental reproduction of smells from memory
    considers himself alien to intellectual issues
    detailed fragmentation of perception, its overload with distracting details, with a tendency to perceive objects and situations not as a whole, but in parts, with some difficulty in simultaneously perceiving the whole
    fidelity of visual memory images
    sensitivity of smell (to odors that are not associated with the individual smell of people)
    weakness and underdevelopment of social and altruistic interests, political apathy (correlated with the scale of the desire for pleasure)
    avoids "shock" doses of drugs and potent drugs (apparently due to high sensitivity to body signals)
    perfect ear for music
    strong appetite
    focus on pleasures, striving for pleasures, they easily distract from any plans
    sensory-household caring for other people(Hey, caregiver is only a number 3 of importance. Out of 15)
    love of bodily physical contact, the importance of tactile sensations, touch, developed tactile sensitivity
    loves nature and contact with it
    seeking patronage and patronage from other people
    altruistic heroism is not for him

    Alright I'm only going through 1-3 you can read it all if you want I gave you people the link.

    Conclusion: SEI's are probably fat.

  2. #2
    Poptart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    2,804
    Mentioned
    189 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    Alright so I was looking through some talanov stuff to find stuff about Si and i ended up looking at the properties most linked to SEI more than any other type and the top 3 are "Overweight, High vascular reactivity in response to excitement (turns pale or reddens), and dislikes rock music." Now of course I'd like to note that over half of russians are overweight anyway, so I'm genuinely baffled how in the world overweightness is the single most SEI characteristic, but it is hilarious. "SEI's are 6.14 times more likely to be overweight than the average population" is now a thing I can say. Old data, still weird it was the most common trait though.

    Uhh, either way, Si stuff.

    Since this is specifically about SEI seemingly, i'll post a list of things that distinguish IEI and SEI(This is more recent data btw, unlike the thing i talked about in the first paragraph)

    This first list is things that are more common for SEI's:

    1. I like to read and study the history and almost perfect "on the machine" know what took place in different parts of the planet at the same time intervals a hundred or two hundred years ago. 2. I very toughly and confidently defend my position in front of people of greater power and status.
    3. Compared to other people of my gender, I have a more "bass" voice (5 or 4 - if so, 3 - if without features, 1 or 2 - if, on the contrary, a thinner voice)
    4. I just communicate with people - they are almost always seem to me pretty, and I do not feel any fears or barriers.
    5. Historical events are always well interconnected in my head - their simultaneity with other events of this period in other parts of the planet, analogies with other periods, as well as their causal relationship with each other.
    6. I keep my word, even if it is not profitable for me.
    7. The present is more or less clear to me, but the future is incomprehensible and therefore of little interest.
    8. I am concerned about my health.
    9. When someone does something disgusting towards people even I don't know, I almost always intervene, because I can’t otherwise.
    10. Throughout a long conversation, I perfectly remember all its turning points and details, all the main phrases of the interlocutor.
    11. Compared to many other people, the pupils in my eyes are usually small and narrow, like dots.
    12. I have always been interested in the laws of development of society, civilization.
    13. Sometimes I "annoy" others with my tutelage.
    14. There are often days (there are about half of them or more) when I often think about the common or someone else's good than about my own.
    15. I eat no more than others, but I am a gourmet, and in the search and selection of especially delicious food I am very selective and selective.
    16. I believe in the need to serve the community
    . 17. Usually, I can only focus on one thing at a time.
    18. I like philosophy and science
    19. At school, I showed an ability to draw with almost photographic accuracy.
    20. My lifestyle has a lot of pleasant physical activity and a lot of physical activity.
    21. For my stories, an eventful sequence and continuity is characteristic - it is not usual for me to mix episodes from different moments of time in my story, putting them in the neighborhood on some non-temporal basis.
    22. Try the following tasks (perform as you read each task): first, go back and forth with your tongue along the inner surface of the lower teeth; then along the inner surface of the upper teeth; then lick the outer, outer surface of the upper teeth with your tongue; then the outer outer surface of the lower teeth; then, with the tip of your tongue, lick the right corner of your mouth from the outside; then the left corner of the mouth; then lick your upper lip from left to right; then inflate one right cheek; then only one left; then click your tongue; then whistle through your lips; then depict how the liquid is sipped through a straw and how a match is blown out. If all the tasks, without exception, were given absolutely easily, without mistakes and without difficulty, put yourself "5", if you managed to do everything, but there was some particular difficulty, put "4". If there were difficulties or mistakes in two or three tasks, put "3", if in four or five tasks, put "2". If difficulties or errors occurred in six or more tasks, put "1".
    23. Always think in advance about the possible consequences of their actions.
    24. What is more likely to arouse your interest and concern if you can choose your field of work in government? - 1) Sports victories of the country. 5) The health of a mass of people
    25. Quite often I discuss my own or someone else's well-being, pleasant or unpleasant sensations, I wonder what hurts where - in general, for me these are normal topics of conversation.

    And this second one more common for IEI's:

    1. Do you have visual images in your head during the day? 1) No, even if you close your eyes and really, really try to see at least something. 2) Yes, but vague, gray and unstable, and only with great concentration 3) I can mentally see something with my eyes closed, even integral and colorful, but I cannot hold the image and control the images 4) Closing my eyes, I easily call "by ordering "bright colored images of any object or person 5) I can evoke and see an imaginary visual image, bright and colored, not only with my eyes closed, but even with my eyes open - against the background of the environment
    2. I am emotionally" uneven "and not very stable.
    3. I know how to persistently beg - I know how to seize the best moment when you can approach a person with a request.
    4. In comparison with peers of my gender, I have a "thinner", higher voice ("5" if so; "1" if vice versa; "3" if exactly at the middle level).
    5. Sometimes it seems to me that behind my back people are laughing at me.
    6. In a dream, without waking up, I sometimes start to say something out loud.
    7. I have frequent mood swings.
    8. Quite often I am not restrained, I show anger or aggression.
    9. I often have all sorts of fears or panic states.
    10. I usually miss it when people around me talk about politics or science.
    11. I am a person with kind, although sometimes sad humor, soft and pleasant in communication.
    12. I know that I am smart, but I usually find it difficult to show it to others.
    13. I am not interested in theoretical discussions.
    14. I have some obsessive fears or sometimes obsessive and ridiculous "forbidden desires" arise - although, of course, I do not succumb to them (such as to rip the stop crane in the car or do something else ridiculous and forbidden)
    15. If a person wants to hear some pleasant lie about himself, then I am ready to tell it without any problems.
    16. I drink little and rarely, my body does not need a lot of water.
    17. Perhaps I sometimes devote too much time to "mental chewing", too often weighing, thinking and evaluating, reasoning around the bush, instead of just doing and moving on.
    18. It is true that which is profitable at the moment.
    19. I am able to find joy even in insignificant and ordinary events.
    20. I am an esthete in the choice of food.
    21. I can inspire myself not to see some person or some thing - and I really won't see them for some time, even if I look directly at them.
    22. Sometimes the voices sounding in the head become uncontrollable and annoying.
    23. I love power, pressure and strength in people.
    24. If a person has trusted you, then he is at your complete disposal.
    25. I have nothing to do with the names and life stories of those who ruled the country in the last century.


    These results are also a bit weird, but still give a pretty clear distinguish between Ni and Si in some clear ways. Also between Ne and Se suggestive as well.

    Finally, for what's probably the most relevant data, we have a 2016 paper done by talanov about specifically what defines Si.
    http://sociotoday.narod.ru/funkc_ws.html
    here's a link for people whose lives are so devoid of anything, they feel it would be a good use of their time to read paragraph upon paragraphs of(mostly) scientific giberish.

    I'm not gonna pretend I read all of this or even know what the purpose of this is, I'm just gonna copy paste some statements that seem relevant.

    Things are put on a scale of 1-15 to how defining it is for Si, 1 being the most important and 15 being the least
    (Note, since this is google translated there are some very WACKY wordings of things. Just assume if it's whatever option makes the most sense. This is also russian culture we're talking here, so keep that in mind)
    "
    1.

    loves to tinker with animals
    likes to tinker with plants
    problems with the perception and construction of complex speech utterances (correlated with a low assessment of their intelligence)
    sensorimotor dominance of the left hemisphere cortex (dominance of the right eye, right ear, right arm and right leg is a common tendency for all 4 cases)
    2.
    eye, the development of the internal "brain" map of the surrounding space
    good spatial imagination, development of volumetric-spatial representations, mental turn operations
    emasculation of the future tense in the mind - unwillingness and inability to think about the future, make forecasts, versions and make plans; concentration of attention and interests in the current minute
    uncharacteristic thoughts about the past, the version of the past does not model
    unnatural symptoms of akathisia
    uncharacteristic motor obsessions
    uncharacteristic insomnia
    love of fishing as a pleasant hobby
    broad-boned, stocky build, broad shoulders, broad face, wide hips
    tendency to be overweight, high mass-growth Quetelet index(Hey look, at least it isn't the most defining characteristic this time)
    3.
    focus on the sensations of your body, attention to all sorts of special sensations (with an emphasis on the dynamics of sensations or their unusualness)
    increased attention to gustatory sensations, their high sensitivity
    the brightness of voluntarily evoked mental visual images (but not against the will or independently of it arising)
    memory for sounds, ease of mental reproduction of sounds from memory
    craving for comfort, significant concentration around him of all thoughts and interests
    avoiding "negative" or simply redundant information that spoils the mood or makes you think
    a good sense of the signals of your body (with an emphasis on their pragmatism and their momentary statics)
    attention to the appearance of objects
    memory for smells, ease of mental reproduction of smells from memory
    considers himself alien to intellectual issues
    detailed fragmentation of perception, its overload with distracting details, with a tendency to perceive objects and situations not as a whole, but in parts, with some difficulty in simultaneously perceiving the whole
    fidelity of visual memory images
    sensitivity of smell (to odors that are not associated with the individual smell of people)
    weakness and underdevelopment of social and altruistic interests, political apathy (correlated with the scale of the desire for pleasure)
    avoids "shock" doses of drugs and potent drugs (apparently due to high sensitivity to body signals)
    perfect ear for music
    strong appetite
    focus on pleasures, striving for pleasures, they easily distract from any plans
    sensory-household caring for other people(Hey, caregiver is only a number 3 of importance. Out of 15)
    love of bodily physical contact, the importance of tactile sensations, touch, developed tactile sensitivity
    loves nature and contact with it
    seeking patronage and patronage from other people
    altruistic heroism is not for him

    Alright I'm only going through 1-3 you can read it all if you want I gave you people the link.

    Conclusion: SEI's are probably fat.
    Yeah I really question some of these correlations. This isn’t a good place to start with describing Si either.

  3. #3
    Baqer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    TIM
    ILE-De
    Posts
    541
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    Yeah I really question some of these correlations. This isn’t a good place to start with describing Si either.
    Which ones specifically?

  4. #4
    MidnightWilderness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    420
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    Which ones specifically?
    Is this based off of people who got professionally typed using Socionic's definitions? Or on something else?

    The culture also is another factor that would skew the data...

  5. #5
    Poptart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    2,804
    Mentioned
    189 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    Is this based off of people who got professionally typed using Socionic's definitions? Or on something else?

    The culture also is another factor that would skew the data...
    I’m not sure how the types were assessed.

    Also, these were self-assessments. Talanov didn’t gather data on weight, height, IQ, etc. All this says is that SEIs perceives themselves to be a certain way. We don’t know how accurate those perceptions are. Perhaps some types tend to underestimate themselves while other types tend to overestimate themselves.

  6. #6
    MidnightWilderness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    420
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    A lot of this might just be NTR or only related to Russian culture so IDK about the accuracy of these assessments. Also how were these people typed? How can we be sure of the accuracy of this data? Still it may be useful...

    also @Poptart might want to have a word with you on this one... -->
    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    Conclusion: SEI's are probably fat.

  7. #7
    Baqer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    TIM
    ILE-De
    Posts
    541
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    A lot of this might just be NTR or only related to Russian culture so IDK about the accuracy of these assessments. Also how were these people typed? How can we be sure of the accuracy of this data? Still it may be useful...

    also @Poptart might want to have a word with you on this one... -->
    Well alot of these things do seem pretty cross-cultural. Stuff like talking care of plants and animals, being bad at putting big words in together correctly, and lack of insomnia don't seem very cultural. Also for the methodology, from what I know he basically took a bunch of people who were 100% sure of their type and tested them to figure out what's linked with what. Then he eventually added more people and got a bunch of people to take his questionnaires, and with some fancy statistics stuff figured out that these statements where most linked with Si.

    Also I did say probably fat, k? And are you gonna tell me the fact that @fatgurl is SEI is a coincidence?

  8. #8
    MidnightWilderness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    420
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    Well alot of these things do seem pretty cross-cultural. Stuff like talking care of plants and animals, being bad at putting big words in together correctly, and lack of insomnia don't seem very cultural. Also for the methodology, from what I know he basically took a bunch of people who were 100% sure of their type and tested them to figure out what's linked with what. Then he eventually added more people and got a bunch of people to take his questionnaires, and with some fancy statistics stuff figured out that these statements where most linked with Si.

    Also I did say probably fat, k? And are you gonna tell me the fact that @fatgurl is SEI is a coincidence?
    @fatgurl doesn't seem fat, at least by the photos of her face

    Okay taking people who are 100% sure of their type based on stereotypical socionics Si definitions and then comparing them to normal population, doesn't that have a logical flaw? I'm still not convinced of this sketchy methodology... maybe it's the fancy statistics stuff though?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •