[poll] Should we redefine Si for SEIs?

[MidnightWilderness]

It may just be me, but I think the current definitions of Si are unrelatable and do us a great disservice. Every single time there is a discussion about SEIs, it seems to me that the same old stereotypes get conflated as the truth... Many people will not think of themselves as Si base if they do not have a focus on homeostasis or creating pleasant sensations for themselves or others, if they are not "natural caregivers". The socionics community can't move forward if stereotypes are constantly perpetuated as truth in the descriptions of functions.

I wanted to start a discussion about what it truly means to be Si base and if people think the descriptions are accurate enough to keep using... or if they need to be redefined for the sake of the Socionics community at large.

[Poptart]

I vote yes.

Just out of curiosity—how would you define Si?

[MidnightWilderness]

I vote yes.

Just out of curiosity—how would you define Si?

I don't know quite yet, I suppose if I had SEIs that were correctly typed talk about their mental processes and life experiences I would have more of an idea. Putting my own personal interpretation based on myself out there will not ring true for every SEI...

That's why I made a poll and a place for discussion about this topic...

[peteronfireee2]

MBTI- comparing present data with past experience.

Socionics- homeostasis, health, comfort, needs, convenience

Si-leads look for ways to stabilize their environment (homeostasis) to make things comfortable, predictable, and safe -- to keep things within the scope of their practical experience and guard against unpleasant outcomes. In order to accomplish this homeostasis, Si-leads may appear to draw upon a limited set of perspectives, behaviors, traditions, and conventions.

Jung- Subjective or personal sensations (acquired thru the five senses)

You can also say Si is impressionistic in a way; it's less concerned with the precise details of sensory perception (Se), and more about what particular aspects of a scene, sound, or environment seem the most relevant. What the Si user deems most important (or "pleasant") can vary greatly from person to person.

[MidnightWilderness]

MBTI- comparing present data with past experience.

Socionics- homeostasis, health, comfort, needs, convenience

Jung- Subjective or personal sensations (acquired thru the five senses)

You can also say Si is impressionistic in a way; it's less concerned with the precise details of sensory perception (Se), and more about what particular aspects of a scene, sound, or environment seem the most relevant. What the Si user deems most important can vary greatly from person to person.

Ahh, I was thinking about redefining Socionical descriptions, Jung and MBTI could be helpful there...

Hmm impressionistic might fit...

[Baqer]

Alright so I was looking through some talanov stuff to find stuff about Si and i ended up looking at the properties most linked to SEI more than any other type and the top 3 are "Overweight, High vascular reactivity in response to excitement (turns pale or reddens), and dislikes rock music." Now of course I'd like to note that over half of russians are overweight anyway, so I'm genuinely baffled how in the world overweightness is the single most SEI characteristic, but it is hilarious. "SEI's are 6.14 times more likely to be overweight than the average population" is now a thing I can say. Old data, still weird it was the most common trait though.

Uhh, either way, Si stuff.

Since this is specifically about SEI seemingly, i'll post a list of things that distinguish IEI and SEI(This is more recent data btw, unlike the thing i talked about in the first paragraph)

This first list is things that are more common for SEI's:

1. I like to read and study the history and almost perfect "on the machine" know what took place in different parts of the planet at the same time intervals a hundred or two hundred years ago. 2. I very toughly and confidently defend my position in front of people of greater power and status.
3. Compared to other people of my gender, I have a more "bass" voice (5 or 4 - if so, 3 - if without features, 1 or 2 - if, on the contrary, a thinner voice)
4. I just communicate with people - they are almost always seem to me pretty, and I do not feel any fears or barriers.
5. Historical events are always well interconnected in my head - their simultaneity with other events of this period in other parts of the planet, analogies with other periods, as well as their causal relationship with each other.
6. I keep my word, even if it is not profitable for me.
7. The present is more or less clear to me, but the future is incomprehensible and therefore of little interest.
8. I am concerned about my health.
9. When someone does something disgusting towards people even I don't know, I almost always intervene, because I can’t otherwise.
10. Throughout a long conversation, I perfectly remember all its turning points and details, all the main phrases of the interlocutor.
11. Compared to many other people, the pupils in my eyes are usually small and narrow, like dots.
12. I have always been interested in the laws of development of society, civilization.
13. Sometimes I "annoy" others with my tutelage.
14. There are often days (there are about half of them or more) when I often think about the common or someone else's good than about my own.
15. I eat no more than others, but I am a gourmet, and in the search and selection of especially delicious food I am very selective and selective.
16. I believe in the need to serve the community
. 17. Usually, I can only focus on one thing at a time.
18. I like philosophy and science
19. At school, I showed an ability to draw with almost photographic accuracy.
20. My lifestyle has a lot of pleasant physical activity and a lot of physical activity.
21. For my stories, an eventful sequence and continuity is characteristic - it is not usual for me to mix episodes from different moments of time in my story, putting them in the neighborhood on some non-temporal basis.
22. Try the following tasks (perform as you read each task): first, go back and forth with your tongue along the inner surface of the lower teeth; then along the inner surface of the upper teeth; then lick the outer, outer surface of the upper teeth with your tongue; then the outer outer surface of the lower teeth; then, with the tip of your tongue, lick the right corner of your mouth from the outside; then the left corner of the mouth; then lick your upper lip from left to right; then inflate one right cheek; then only one left; then click your tongue; then whistle through your lips; then depict how the liquid is sipped through a straw and how a match is blown out. If all the tasks, without exception, were given absolutely easily, without mistakes and without difficulty, put yourself "5", if you managed to do everything, but there was some particular difficulty, put "4". If there were difficulties or mistakes in two or three tasks, put "3", if in four or five tasks, put "2". If difficulties or errors occurred in six or more tasks, put "1".
23. Always think in advance about the possible consequences of their actions.
24. What is more likely to arouse your interest and concern if you can choose your field of work in government? - 1) Sports victories of the country. 5) The health of a mass of people
25. Quite often I discuss my own or someone else's well-being, pleasant or unpleasant sensations, I wonder what hurts where - in general, for me these are normal topics of conversation.

And this second one more common for IEI's:

1. Do you have visual images in your head during the day? 1) No, even if you close your eyes and really, really try to see at least something. 2) Yes, but vague, gray and unstable, and only with great concentration 3) I can mentally see something with my eyes closed, even integral and colorful, but I cannot hold the image and control the images 4) Closing my eyes, I easily call "by ordering "bright colored images of any object or person 5) I can evoke and see an imaginary visual image, bright and colored, not only with my eyes closed, but even with my eyes open - against the background of the environment
2. I am emotionally" uneven "and not very stable.
3. I know how to persistently beg - I know how to seize the best moment when you can approach a person with a request.
4. In comparison with peers of my gender, I have a "thinner", higher voice ("5" if so; "1" if vice versa; "3" if exactly at the middle level).
5. Sometimes it seems to me that behind my back people are laughing at me.
6. In a dream, without waking up, I sometimes start to say something out loud.
7. I have frequent mood swings.
8. Quite often I am not restrained, I show anger or aggression.
9. I often have all sorts of fears or panic states.
10. I usually miss it when people around me talk about politics or science.
11. I am a person with kind, although sometimes sad humor, soft and pleasant in communication.
12. I know that I am smart, but I usually find it difficult to show it to others.
13. I am not interested in theoretical discussions.
14. I have some obsessive fears or sometimes obsessive and ridiculous "forbidden desires" arise - although, of course, I do not succumb to them (such as to rip the stop crane in the car or do something else ridiculous and forbidden)
15. If a person wants to hear some pleasant lie about himself, then I am ready to tell it without any problems.
16. I drink little and rarely, my body does not need a lot of water.
17. Perhaps I sometimes devote too much time to "mental chewing", too often weighing, thinking and evaluating, reasoning around the bush, instead of just doing and moving on.
18. It is true that which is profitable at the moment.
19. I am able to find joy even in insignificant and ordinary events.
20. I am an esthete in the choice of food.
21. I can inspire myself not to see some person or some thing - and I really won't see them for some time, even if I look directly at them.
22. Sometimes the voices sounding in the head become uncontrollable and annoying.
23. I love power, pressure and strength in people.
24. If a person has trusted you, then he is at your complete disposal.
25. I have nothing to do with the names and life stories of those who ruled the country in the last century.


These results are also a bit weird, but still give a pretty clear distinguish between Ni and Si in some clear ways. Also between Ne and Se suggestive as well.

Finally, for what's probably the most relevant data, we have a 2016 paper done by talanov about specifically what defines Si.
http://sociotoday.narod.ru/funkc_ws.html
here's a link for people whose lives are so devoid of anything, they feel it would be a good use of their time to read paragraph upon paragraphs of(mostly) scientific giberish.

I'm not gonna pretend I read all of this or even know what the purpose of this is, I'm just gonna copy paste some statements that seem relevant.

Things are put on a scale of 1-15 to how defining it is for Si, 1 being the most important and 15 being the least
(Note, since this is google translated there are some very WACKY wordings of things. Just assume if it's whatever option makes the most sense. This is also russian culture we're talking here, so keep that in mind)
"
1.

loves to tinker with animals
likes to tinker with plants
problems with the perception and construction of complex speech utterances (correlated with a low assessment of their intelligence)
sensorimotor dominance of the left hemisphere cortex (dominance of the right eye, right ear, right arm and right leg is a common tendency for all 4 cases)
2.
eye, the development of the internal "brain" map of the surrounding space
good spatial imagination, development of volumetric-spatial representations, mental turn operations
emasculation of the future tense in the mind - unwillingness and inability to think about the future, make forecasts, versions and make plans; concentration of attention and interests in the current minute
uncharacteristic thoughts about the past, the version of the past does not model
unnatural symptoms of akathisia
uncharacteristic motor obsessions
uncharacteristic insomnia
love of fishing as a pleasant hobby
broad-boned, stocky build, broad shoulders, broad face, wide hips
tendency to be overweight, high mass-growth Quetelet index(Hey look, at least it isn't the most defining characteristic this time)
3.
focus on the sensations of your body, attention to all sorts of special sensations (with an emphasis on the dynamics of sensations or their unusualness)
increased attention to gustatory sensations, their high sensitivity
the brightness of voluntarily evoked mental visual images (but not against the will or independently of it arising)
memory for sounds, ease of mental reproduction of sounds from memory
craving for comfort, significant concentration around him of all thoughts and interests
avoiding "negative" or simply redundant information that spoils the mood or makes you think
a good sense of the signals of your body (with an emphasis on their pragmatism and their momentary statics)
attention to the appearance of objects
memory for smells, ease of mental reproduction of smells from memory
considers himself alien to intellectual issues
detailed fragmentation of perception, its overload with distracting details, with a tendency to perceive objects and situations not as a whole, but in parts, with some difficulty in simultaneously perceiving the whole
fidelity of visual memory images
sensitivity of smell (to odors that are not associated with the individual smell of people)
weakness and underdevelopment of social and altruistic interests, political apathy (correlated with the scale of the desire for pleasure)
avoids "shock" doses of drugs and potent drugs (apparently due to high sensitivity to body signals)
perfect ear for music
strong appetite
focus on pleasures, striving for pleasures, they easily distract from any plans
sensory-household caring for other people(Hey, caregiver is only a number 3 of importance. Out of 15)
love of bodily physical contact, the importance of tactile sensations, touch, developed tactile sensitivity
loves nature and contact with it
seeking patronage and patronage from other people
altruistic heroism is not for him

Alright I'm only going through 1-3 you can read it all if you want I gave you people the link.

Conclusion: SEI's are probably fat.

[Poptart]

Alright so I was looking through some talanov stuff to find stuff about Si and i ended up looking at the properties most linked to SEI more than any other type and the top 3 are "Overweight, High vascular reactivity in response to excitement (turns pale or reddens), and dislikes rock music." Now of course I'd like to note that over half of russians are overweight anyway, so I'm genuinely baffled how in the world overweightness is the single most SEI characteristic, but it is hilarious. "SEI's are 6.14 times more likely to be overweight than the average population" is now a thing I can say. Old data, still weird it was the most common trait though.

Uhh, either way, Si stuff.

Since this is specifically about SEI seemingly, i'll post a list of things that distinguish IEI and SEI(This is more recent data btw, unlike the thing i talked about in the first paragraph)

This first list is things that are more common for SEI's:

1. I like to read and study the history and almost perfect "on the machine" know what took place in different parts of the planet at the same time intervals a hundred or two hundred years ago. 2. I very toughly and confidently defend my position in front of people of greater power and status.
3. Compared to other people of my gender, I have a more "bass" voice (5 or 4 - if so, 3 - if without features, 1 or 2 - if, on the contrary, a thinner voice)
4. I just communicate with people - they are almost always seem to me pretty, and I do not feel any fears or barriers.
5. Historical events are always well interconnected in my head - their simultaneity with other events of this period in other parts of the planet, analogies with other periods, as well as their causal relationship with each other.
6. I keep my word, even if it is not profitable for me.
7. The present is more or less clear to me, but the future is incomprehensible and therefore of little interest.
8. I am concerned about my health.
9. When someone does something disgusting towards people even I don't know, I almost always intervene, because I can’t otherwise.
10. Throughout a long conversation, I perfectly remember all its turning points and details, all the main phrases of the interlocutor.
11. Compared to many other people, the pupils in my eyes are usually small and narrow, like dots.
12. I have always been interested in the laws of development of society, civilization.
13. Sometimes I "annoy" others with my tutelage.
14. There are often days (there are about half of them or more) when I often think about the common or someone else's good than about my own.
15. I eat no more than others, but I am a gourmet, and in the search and selection of especially delicious food I am very selective and selective.
16. I believe in the need to serve the community
. 17. Usually, I can only focus on one thing at a time.
18. I like philosophy and science
19. At school, I showed an ability to draw with almost photographic accuracy.
20. My lifestyle has a lot of pleasant physical activity and a lot of physical activity.
21. For my stories, an eventful sequence and continuity is characteristic - it is not usual for me to mix episodes from different moments of time in my story, putting them in the neighborhood on some non-temporal basis.
22. Try the following tasks (perform as you read each task): first, go back and forth with your tongue along the inner surface of the lower teeth; then along the inner surface of the upper teeth; then lick the outer, outer surface of the upper teeth with your tongue; then the outer outer surface of the lower teeth; then, with the tip of your tongue, lick the right corner of your mouth from the outside; then the left corner of the mouth; then lick your upper lip from left to right; then inflate one right cheek; then only one left; then click your tongue; then whistle through your lips; then depict how the liquid is sipped through a straw and how a match is blown out. If all the tasks, without exception, were given absolutely easily, without mistakes and without difficulty, put yourself "5", if you managed to do everything, but there was some particular difficulty, put "4". If there were difficulties or mistakes in two or three tasks, put "3", if in four or five tasks, put "2". If difficulties or errors occurred in six or more tasks, put "1".
23. Always think in advance about the possible consequences of their actions.
24. What is more likely to arouse your interest and concern if you can choose your field of work in government? - 1) Sports victories of the country. 5) The health of a mass of people
25. Quite often I discuss my own or someone else's well-being, pleasant or unpleasant sensations, I wonder what hurts where - in general, for me these are normal topics of conversation.

And this second one more common for IEI's:

1. Do you have visual images in your head during the day? 1) No, even if you close your eyes and really, really try to see at least something. 2) Yes, but vague, gray and unstable, and only with great concentration 3) I can mentally see something with my eyes closed, even integral and colorful, but I cannot hold the image and control the images 4) Closing my eyes, I easily call "by ordering "bright colored images of any object or person 5) I can evoke and see an imaginary visual image, bright and colored, not only with my eyes closed, but even with my eyes open - against the background of the environment
2. I am emotionally" uneven "and not very stable.
3. I know how to persistently beg - I know how to seize the best moment when you can approach a person with a request.
4. In comparison with peers of my gender, I have a "thinner", higher voice ("5" if so; "1" if vice versa; "3" if exactly at the middle level).
5. Sometimes it seems to me that behind my back people are laughing at me.
6. In a dream, without waking up, I sometimes start to say something out loud.
7. I have frequent mood swings.
8. Quite often I am not restrained, I show anger or aggression.
9. I often have all sorts of fears or panic states.
10. I usually miss it when people around me talk about politics or science.
11. I am a person with kind, although sometimes sad humor, soft and pleasant in communication.
12. I know that I am smart, but I usually find it difficult to show it to others.
13. I am not interested in theoretical discussions.
14. I have some obsessive fears or sometimes obsessive and ridiculous "forbidden desires" arise - although, of course, I do not succumb to them (such as to rip the stop crane in the car or do something else ridiculous and forbidden)
15. If a person wants to hear some pleasant lie about himself, then I am ready to tell it without any problems.
16. I drink little and rarely, my body does not need a lot of water.
17. Perhaps I sometimes devote too much time to "mental chewing", too often weighing, thinking and evaluating, reasoning around the bush, instead of just doing and moving on.
18. It is true that which is profitable at the moment.
19. I am able to find joy even in insignificant and ordinary events.
20. I am an esthete in the choice of food.
21. I can inspire myself not to see some person or some thing - and I really won't see them for some time, even if I look directly at them.
22. Sometimes the voices sounding in the head become uncontrollable and annoying.
23. I love power, pressure and strength in people.
24. If a person has trusted you, then he is at your complete disposal.
25. I have nothing to do with the names and life stories of those who ruled the country in the last century.


These results are also a bit weird, but still give a pretty clear distinguish between Ni and Si in some clear ways. Also between Ne and Se suggestive as well.

Finally, for what's probably the most relevant data, we have a 2016 paper done by talanov about specifically what defines Si.
http://sociotoday.narod.ru/funkc_ws.html
here's a link for people whose lives are so devoid of anything, they feel it would be a good use of their time to read paragraph upon paragraphs of(mostly) scientific giberish.

I'm not gonna pretend I read all of this or even know what the purpose of this is, I'm just gonna copy paste some statements that seem relevant.

Things are put on a scale of 1-15 to how defining it is for Si, 1 being the most important and 15 being the least
(Note, since this is google translated there are some very WACKY wordings of things. Just assume if it's whatever option makes the most sense. This is also russian culture we're talking here, so keep that in mind)
"
1.

loves to tinker with animals
likes to tinker with plants
problems with the perception and construction of complex speech utterances (correlated with a low assessment of their intelligence)
sensorimotor dominance of the left hemisphere cortex (dominance of the right eye, right ear, right arm and right leg is a common tendency for all 4 cases)
2.
eye, the development of the internal "brain" map of the surrounding space
good spatial imagination, development of volumetric-spatial representations, mental turn operations
emasculation of the future tense in the mind - unwillingness and inability to think about the future, make forecasts, versions and make plans; concentration of attention and interests in the current minute
uncharacteristic thoughts about the past, the version of the past does not model
unnatural symptoms of akathisia
uncharacteristic motor obsessions
uncharacteristic insomnia
love of fishing as a pleasant hobby
broad-boned, stocky build, broad shoulders, broad face, wide hips
tendency to be overweight, high mass-growth Quetelet index(Hey look, at least it isn't the most defining characteristic this time)
3.
focus on the sensations of your body, attention to all sorts of special sensations (with an emphasis on the dynamics of sensations or their unusualness)
increased attention to gustatory sensations, their high sensitivity
the brightness of voluntarily evoked mental visual images (but not against the will or independently of it arising)
memory for sounds, ease of mental reproduction of sounds from memory
craving for comfort, significant concentration around him of all thoughts and interests
avoiding "negative" or simply redundant information that spoils the mood or makes you think
a good sense of the signals of your body (with an emphasis on their pragmatism and their momentary statics)
attention to the appearance of objects
memory for smells, ease of mental reproduction of smells from memory
considers himself alien to intellectual issues
detailed fragmentation of perception, its overload with distracting details, with a tendency to perceive objects and situations not as a whole, but in parts, with some difficulty in simultaneously perceiving the whole
fidelity of visual memory images
sensitivity of smell (to odors that are not associated with the individual smell of people)
weakness and underdevelopment of social and altruistic interests, political apathy (correlated with the scale of the desire for pleasure)
avoids "shock" doses of drugs and potent drugs (apparently due to high sensitivity to body signals)
perfect ear for music
strong appetite
focus on pleasures, striving for pleasures, they easily distract from any plans
sensory-household caring for other people(Hey, caregiver is only a number 3 of importance. Out of 15)
love of bodily physical contact, the importance of tactile sensations, touch, developed tactile sensitivity
loves nature and contact with it
seeking patronage and patronage from other people
altruistic heroism is not for him

Alright I'm only going through 1-3 you can read it all if you want I gave you people the link.

Conclusion: SEI's are probably fat.

Yeah I really question some of these correlations. This isn’t a good place to start with describing Si either.

[Baqer]

Yeah I really question some of these correlations. This isn’t a good place to start with describing Si either.

Which ones specifically?

[MidnightWilderness]

A lot of this might just be NTR or only related to Russian culture so IDK about the accuracy of these assessments. Also how were these people typed? How can we be sure of the accuracy of this data? Still it may be useful...

also @Poptart might want to have a word with you on this one... -->

Conclusion: SEI's are probably fat.

[MidnightWilderness]

Which ones specifically?

Is this based off of people who got professionally typed using Socionic's definitions? Or on something else?

The culture also is another factor that would skew the data...

[Baqer]

A lot of this might just be NTR or only related to Russian culture so IDK about the accuracy of these assessments. Also how were these people typed? How can we be sure of the accuracy of this data? Still it may be useful...

also @Poptart might want to have a word with you on this one... -->

Well alot of these things do seem pretty cross-cultural. Stuff like talking care of plants and animals, being bad at putting big words in together correctly, and lack of insomnia don't seem very cultural. Also for the methodology, from what I know he basically took a bunch of people who were 100% sure of their type and tested them to figure out what's linked with what. Then he eventually added more people and got a bunch of people to take his questionnaires, and with some fancy statistics stuff figured out that these statements where most linked with Si.

Also I did say probably fat, k? And are you gonna tell me the fact that @fatgurl is SEI is a coincidence?

[Poptart]

Is this based off of people who got professionally typed using Socionic's definitions? Or on something else?

The culture also is another factor that would skew the data...

I’m not sure how the types were assessed.

Also, these were self-assessments. Talanov didn’t gather data on weight, height, IQ, etc. All this says is that SEIs perceives themselves to be a certain way. We don’t know how accurate those perceptions are. Perhaps some types tend to underestimate themselves while other types tend to overestimate themselves.

[ouronis]

Yeah, descriptions of Si typically revolve around things every human does constantly without difficulty, including Jung's original descriptions and the supposedly more nuanced cognition-based descriptions

[MissDucki]

I've always view Si as just pure internal sensations that you use to navigate the world and perceive it through a personal lens. AKA You lead with balancing your own personal sensations through manipulating the outside world to your own liking to please it or reach balance. For some people it is viewed as taking care of your health, or putting yourself in an environment that is right for you or going at your own pace that you see fit. Everyone is different and their internal sensation balance is different. I freaking hate wearing socks and that make me internally mad. Another person may love socks and it makes them internally happy. Both are right with their internal sensations, just need a different balance.

People stereotypical would assume heath with Si cause the person is naturally tuned in their own internal sensations then other types. Thus when feeling out of balance or 'sick' they would be hyper aware and would want to change it to feel more balanced. But, Si is very hedonistic and pleasure can over turn health. Hard liquor is bad for you but that's not going to stop me from downing shots and getting drunk. Cause right now, all I care about is feeling good and pleasurable sensations above all else. Consequences be damned! A smoker Si just likes the feeling and consequences be damned if it makes him feel internally feel good. Si users are less likely to repeat past mistakes if they had a bad internal sensation. They will remember it strongly and do not want to repeat it more then intuitive types. That is why they don't always need new options or may be sacred of change simply because of the possible bad sensation or bad experience and can get in ruts.

Also in ESE and SEI, Si is paired with Fe. Care taking is viewed as stereotypical cause Fe users are very in-tuned with the outside world of peoples emotions, reaction, harmony and objective moral perceptions. So you mix someone who is sensitive with their internal sensations with the reactions of the outside world, then they are going to want to naturally balance the environment to feel internally pleasant. I am more sensitive to it personally, so I tend to react more to it. Like I hear a crying baby and my immediate reaction is too sooth. It's messing with the environment and its making me feel like crap cause the harmony has changed. I find what it is internal sensations are, it stops and the harmony is balanced and now I can feel more balanced. Not saying that Fe is always care taking. Si with Fe can look like being a calming presence in a harmonious environment or being able to simply recognize emotional cues better in the environment quicker and understand them better. But there is both a focus on both internal sensation and extroverted feeling judgement.

I would include the MBTI with past and present but, I tend to naturally do that with all my internal sensations. You cant really imagine what a new sensation would feel like if you never had it. You can imagine but the body may not like the sensation or improve of it until it happens. Other then that, I always navigate like that.

Also, If we are going to talk about changing Si, then we have to talk about ISTp as well as they lead with Si. Si with Te can appear and look different. @LemurianLo, How do you view Si?

[MidnightWilderness]

Well alot of these things do seem pretty cross-cultural. Stuff like talking care of plants and animals, being bad at putting big words in together correctly, and lack of insomnia don't seem very cultural. Also for the methodology, from what I know he basically took a bunch of people who were 100% sure of their type and tested them to figure out what's linked with what. Then he eventually added more people and got a bunch of people to take his questionnaires, and with some fancy statistics stuff figured out that these statements where most linked with Si.

Also I did say probably fat, k? And are you gonna tell me the fact that @fatgurl is SEI is a coincidence?

@fatgurl doesn't seem fat, at least by the photos of her face

Okay taking people who are 100% sure of their type based on stereotypical socionics Si definitions and then comparing them to normal population, doesn't that have a logical flaw? I'm still not convinced of this sketchy methodology... maybe it's the fancy statistics stuff though?

[peteronfireee2]

Lol I'm pretty sure @Baqer is partly trolling about the fat

... I've always view Si as just pure internal sensations that you use to navigate the world and perceive it through a personal lens. AKA You lead with balancing your own personal sensations through manipulating the outside world to your own liking to please it or reach balance. For some people it is viewed as taking care of your health, or putting yourself in an environment that is right for you or going at your own pace that you see fit. Everyone is different and their internal sensation balance is different. I freaking hate wearing socks and that make me internally mad. Another person may love socks and it makes them internally happy. Both are right with their internal sensations, just need a different balance...

Okay the only problem with pure internal sensations is that my issues are not necessarily hedonistic... For instance, I don't remember to drink enough water or eat enough throughout the day and I don't want to have such issues, although maybe it's homeostasis? I never really change my personal environment mostly for any reason... IDK if I feel in tune with my internal sensations like that... Otherwise I can easily deny myself pleasurable foods or stuff because of long term health yes...

I guess Si can really be subjective like that though?

Basically, SEIs are selfish snowflakes and when things are discomforting for them, they will bail on u.

jk. or am i?

[MidnightWilderness]

I've always view Si as just pure internal sensations that you use to navigate the world and perceive it through a personal lens. AKA You lead with balancing your own personal sensations through manipulating the outside world to your own liking to please it or reach balance. For some people it is viewed as taking care of your health, or putting yourself in an environment that is right for you or going at your own pace that you see fit. Everyone is different and their internal sensation balance is different. I freaking hate wearing socks and that make me internally mad. Another person may love socks and it makes them internally happy. Both are right with their internal sensations, just need a different balance.

People stereotypical would assume heath with Si cause the person is naturally tuned in their own internal sensations then other types. Thus when feeling out of balance or 'sick' they would be hyper aware and would want to change it to feel more balanced. But, Si is very hedonistic and pleasure can over turn health. Hard liquor is bad for you but that's not going to stop me from downing shots and getting drunk. Cause right now, all I care about is feeling good and pleasurable sensations above all else. Consequences be damned! A smoker Si just likes the feeling and consequences be damned if it makes him feel internally feel good. Si users are less likely to repeat past mistakes if they had a bad internal sensation. They will remember it strongly and do not want to repeat it more then intuitive types. That is why they don't always need new options or may be sacred of change simply because of the possible bad sensation or bad experience and can get in ruts.

Also in ESE and SEI, Si is paired with Fe. Care taking is viewed as stereotypical cause Fe users are very in-tuned with the outside world of peoples emotions, reaction, harmony and objective moral perceptions. So you mix someone who is sensitive with their internal sensations with the reactions of the outside world, then they are going to want to naturally balance the environment to feel internally pleasant. I am more sensitive to it personally, so I tend to react more to it. Like I hear a crying baby and my immediate reaction is too sooth. It's messing with the environment and its making me feel like crap cause the harmony has changed. I find what it is internal sensations are, it stops and the harmony is balanced and now I can feel more balanced. Not saying that Fe is always care taking. Si with Fe can look like being a calming presence in a harmonious environment or being able to simply recognize emotional cues better in the environment quicker and understand them better. But there is both a focus on both internal sensation and extroverted feeling judgement.

I would include the MBTI with past and present but, I tend to naturally do that with all my internal sensations. You cant really imagine what a new sensation would feel like if you never had it. You can imagine but the body may not like the sensation or improve of it until it happens. Other then that, I always navigate like that.

Also, If we are going to talk about changing Si, then we have to talk about ISTp as well as they lead with Si. Si with Te can appear and look different.

Okay the only problem with pure internal sensations is that my issues are not necessarily hedonistic... For instance, I don't remember to drink enough water or eat enough throughout the day and I don't want to have such issues, although maybe it's homeostasis? I never really change my personal environment mostly for any reason... IDK if I feel in tune with my internal sensations like that... Otherwise I can easily deny myself pleasurable foods or stuff because of long term health yes...

I highly disagree that you can't imagine what a new sensation would look like if you never had it... What about other people's experiences? Say for example I want to move somewhere and I decide it will be beneficial based off of what others have said? Or based off of the information on that place? Or if the sensation is completely new but it is a good risk in order to achieve your goals?

I navigate a lot of times like, "What will produce a favorable future outcome in alignment with my personal goals so that I can complete my destiny as MW?" or I try to but I have trouble focusing on the current moment and I get swept up into thought... I guess that might be my Si wanting daydreaming homeostasis, it wants to daydream about battles and war and time travel and making characters more than being productive and efficient like a good little function.

Although I also navigate like "How can I not get in the way of that person that I love? How can I make them happy, how can I be worth their time?" because I don't think I am completely heartless...

I guess Si can really be subjective like that though?

Edit: (I did specify Si for SEIs but if SLIs want to redefine it as well then why not? If we redefine the whole function, which we will probably have to, then SLIs input is needed too...)

[MidnightWilderness]

Lol I'm pretty sure @Baqer is partly trolling about the fat

lol I was joking bc Poptart got mad once because somebody said most of the SEIs he saw were fat

I know he's trolling based on the data a little though

[MissDucki]

Lol I'm pretty sure @Baqer is partly trolling about the fat

I mean....I have seen in some of the translation that SEI's and ESE have been perceived to be on the heavier side and if you go way back some of the old posts on here, they do discuss this. I am not saying it is right but people have wrote about it.

Also, any subjective function will always be viewed as selfish. Because it is personal and does not equate external judgements from the outside world. But I am also saying that I will die on my own hill to feel internally good. You cant take that away from me lol. Dont know if that makes me a selfish snowflake but, I like feeling good and treating myself.

[MidnightWilderness]

Lol I'm pretty sure @Baqer is partly trolling about the fat






Basically, SEIs are selfish snowflakes and when things are discomforting for them, they will bail on u.

jk. or am i?

Um not for every SEI, but I am too selfish yeah... I should work on that.

Also I will stay through hardship just to be with my bf now, even if things aren't 100% perfect and we don't always have a good time together...

You have to overcome weaknesses to grow

Yeah it can happen if you don't think about others enough, but you can force yourself to consider outside perspectives

[peteronfireee2]

Um not for every SEI, but I am too selfish yeah... I should work on that.

Also I will stay through hardship just to be with my bf now, even if things aren't 100% perfect and we don't always have a good time together...

You have to overcome weaknesses to grow

Kidding aside, but I guess what I meant is that to "outsiders" such as myself it may appear that SEIs are somewhat "absorbed in their own world" if that makes sense

[Baqer]

Um not for every SEI, but I am too selfish yeah... I should work on that.

Also I will stay through hardship just to be with my bf now, even if things aren't 100% perfect and we don't always have a good time together...

You have to overcome weaknesses to grow

Yeah it can happen if you don't think about others enough, but you can force yourself to consider outside perspectives

Wdym "too selfish"?

[MidnightWilderness]

Kidding aside, but I guess what I meant is that to "outsiders" such as myself it may appear that SEIs are somewhat "absorbed in their own world" if that makes sense

Yeah it makes sense... Sometimes you just got to talk about things that aren't related to the self or talk about other things that aren't yourself, or talk about other people to try to escape that hole of the self... Or just consider something that isn't yourself, it can be hard for some but necessary...

[peteronfireee2]

I'll illustrate with some examples that come to mind....

I notice that my dad (SEI) and I have different driving styles.

For me, I'm paying attention broadly to the outside world; i'll be paying attention to the cars, how close they are, how fast, properly yielding at intersections etc

My dad, though, LOL ... He is SEI and sometimes he'll be absorbed to particular things when driving, like while he's making a turn he'll be looking at some beautiful flower and his mind overfilled by its beauty.... And then there's me, his son, yelling at him in the background: DAD LOOK THERE'S A CAR COMING!!!

Lol

[MidnightWilderness]

Wdym "too selfish"?

I really tend to focus on myself and my own feelings too much here... You can see it in my posts... I should really focus more on other things than my own issues because that's just selfish, self absorbed, and basically needy... And too much in my own little world when I should be out interacting with things outside of it...

[MissDucki]

I'll illustrate with some examples that come to mind....

I notice that my dad (SEI) and I have different driving styles.

For me, I'm paying attention broadly to the outside world; i'll be paying attention to the cars, how close they are, how fast, properly yielding at intersections etc

My dad, though, LOL ... He is SEI and sometimes he'll be absorbed to particular things when driving, like while he's making a turn he'll be looking at some beautiful flower and his mind overfilled by its beauty.... And then there's me, his son, yelling at him in the background: DAD LOOK THERE'S A CAR COMING!!!

Lol

................... I will quietly leave the room now cause I feel called out. Deadass I get too absorbed like he does.

[Baqer]

I really tend to focus on myself and my own feelings too much here... You can see it in my posts... I should really focus more on other things than my own issues because that's just selfish, self absorbed, and basically needy... And too much in my own little world when I should be out interacting with things outside of it...

That's not selfish though? And hey, don't beat yourself up over focusing on yourself. From what I've seen, you haven't figured out who you really are yet. Just focus and introspect on yourself while trying to learn, and then you can start really being able to interact with others better.

[peteronfireee2]

Another story,

I remember back in the 90s when we got our first computer and color ink printer.

I came back from school one day and I found my dad sitting at the computer with a giant stack of papers at his desk.

I was really curious to see what these stacks of papers were and found out he was printing pages and pages of colorful butterflies.

I felt both enamored and bewildered lol.

"Look at all these beautiful butterflies."

[Poptart]

Tbh having valued 4d Si is a disability and should be treated as such.

How can anyone expect a fat, lazy, brain dead SxI like myself to function normally in society?

I demand special accommodations and financial compensation for my troublez.

[Baqer]

Another story,

I remember back in the 90s when we got our first computer and color ink printer.

I came back from school one day and I found my dad sitting at the computer with a giant stack of papers at his desk.

I was really curious to see what these stacks of papers were and found out he was printing pages and pages of colorful butterflies.

I felt both enamored and bewildered lol.

"Look at these beautiful butterflies."

can i have your dad please

[Baqer]

Tbh having valued 4d Si is a disability and should be treated as such.

How can anyone expect a fat, lazy, brain dead SxI like myself to function normally in society?

I demand special accommodations and financial compensation for my troublez.

give every Si dom a little box to live in and let them grow their own food. Turn them all into gardeners.

[Poptart]

give every Si dom a little box to live in and let them grow their own food. Turn them all into gardeners.

Wtf am I supposed to do with a garden? Are you saying that SEIs should be forced into peasantry?

This is why I’m demanding special accommodations and financial compensation. You cannot expect someone like me, who’s greatest talents are breathing, sitting, and eating, to compete with other types. I don’t have the aptitude. I need disability.

[ouronis]

I too would like compensation

[Poptart]

I too would like compensation

Ok but you’ll have to accept your status as a second class citizen (SxI).

[MissDucki]

Welcome to the alpha forum everybody.

[peteronfireee2]

People stereotypical would assume heath with Si cause the person is naturally tuned in their own internal sensations then other types. Thus when feeling out of balance or 'sick' they would be hyper aware and would want to change it to feel more balanced. But, Si is very hedonistic and pleasure can over turn health. Hard liquor is bad for you but that's not going to stop me from downing shots and getting drunk. Cause right now, all I care about is feeling good and pleasurable sensations above all else. Consequences be damned! A smoker Si just likes the feeling and consequences be damned if it makes him feel internally feel good. Si users are less likely to repeat past mistakes if they had a bad internal sensation. They will remember it strongly and do not want to repeat it more then intuitive types. That is why they don't always need new options or may be sacred of change simply because of the possible bad sensation or bad experience and can get in ruts.

I mean....I have seen in some of the translation that SEI's and ESE have been perceived to be on the heavier side and if you go way back some of the old posts on here, they do discuss this. I am not saying it is right but people have wrote about it.

Yeah. I think the "fat SEI" thing is similar to "criminal SLEs"; like they're simply manifestations when they over-indulge in their lead functions for pleasure/evil.

[ouronis]

Ok but you’ll have to accept your status as a second class citizen (SxI).

No

[rose]

There's a few dimentions of Si to consider in typing a person.
There's the pure internalized sensation that I would call the base of it, but a person can hardly exist without a judging function, so Fe in this case. The Fe would gage what is correct considering the informations it receives, and that's the part where the person and the stereotypes take form. In a society where SEI are mainly women and women are expected to cook to be correct, Si will get paired with cooking. Here starts the stereotypical behavior, what is expected happens in a self-fullfilling profecy of sort.
It's similar to Fe being loud and expressive, if that is the correct way to behave the Fe user was taught, yes it will happen, but an Fe can learn to be quiet and subtle if it's what is considered correct.
By correct, I mean what brings the wanted emotional atmosphere, there's some underlying logic being created by a not so conscious Ti, rules to go by to get the desired effect.
Or something, idrk what I'm talking about.

[peteronfireee2]

Tbh having valued 4d Si is a disability and should be treated as such.

How can anyone expect a fat, lazy, brain dead SxI like myself to function normally in society?

I demand special accommodations and financial compensation for my troublez.

pics or gtfo

we want to see that wheelchair

[Poptart]

No

Wise decision. I think you chose the right path (not that it’s my place as an SxI peasant to say so—I don’t have the Ni to draw such grand conclusions)