I suppose both can be kind of control freakish. The ESTj probably wants to take control over others, the ISTp control over him/herself. But I have seen the same in ESFj and ISFp.
I suppose both can be kind of control freakish. The ESTj probably wants to take control over others, the ISTp control over him/herself. But I have seen the same in ESFj and ISFp.
Love is like an energy, rushing in, rushing inside of me...
I work with 2 consultants in this one project team, they're one of each. It's clear as day which one is which but I can't really say what that gut instinct is driven by. More useful are probably those specific behaviour differences arising from their weaker functions. Both of them are erratic in planning behaviour but the ISTp gets things ticking along with a lot less panic (but with a lot of complaining), and would rather be left to manage that timing pressure himself. He expects that good work delivery planning should be a big deal even when he himself is having trouble with it.
The ESTj has Ni PoLR. He appreciates when that same thing is not made into a big deal and if someone else is pacing the work and responding to unforeseen or last minute scheduling upsets in terms of re-arranging work, so that the effect of the disturbance to the schedule is deflected or absorbed without dropping any 'balls'. If he has to do it, he can get really stressed and things start descending into chaos, or this one time, he can become quite mired in just a single piece of work he should normally be able to do, unable to see what's important to finish the design enough for its purpose within the time alotted - it's like his Ne just failed. I reckon it is the same effect as when I start to veg out with the TV or aimlessly surfing the net and my sleep cycle just goes to pieces when I'm incredibly stressed (Si HA self-destructs haha) - even though I know the behaviour is making things worse.
I'm not sure how I would adapt the above to account for a reserved ESTj vs an outgoing ISTp.
When you work with them it can be hard to tell not everyone is such a good observer as @Kirana but when you know them better in private IP temperament and EJ temparament are easy to differentiate. You can pretty much go with the standard temparament descriptions on wikisocion even though they are a bit overdrawn. Just leave the sports part out
I think you're LSE because you have a very clear view how things should be. That makes you rational in my opinion.
ESTj are far more organized and worry and fret over things until they get done whereas ISTp are much more calm and chill. ESTj on drugs can resemble ISTp and ISTp on speed may resemble ESTj.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Yes I've been thinking so lately too. I'm very controlling of others and how they should behave to a point of intrusion. Whereas my SLI friend is very much more into himself, he likes to advice people he is close to, but he lets them be as they are much more. And also not that much perfectionism as in me.Originally Posted by Daft21
It seems some divine lightning stroke you and you were able to synthesise a concrete idea without your personal feelings being put, in a clear way. I am surprised. Great.
Following this... ESTj would be more inclined to abuse alcohol and drugs which relax/depress the CNS, whilst ISTp more likely to do stimulants.
nah, it's just that this project is complicated, fluid, and difficult enough, that i've had opportunity to see my team-mates' particular pressure points stressed, or even fail. particularly as it's kind of my job to anticipate that stuff and compensate, so i must pay attention. socionics is helping.
they've seen my Si fail too, once.
i reckon it would be harder with a more predictable or low-stress project.
What happened when your si faules how dit it demonstrate?
I also have problems with my sleepcycle when i surf to long the internet or watch addicte tv-shows
That time was particularly tough, coz we were in this meeting that turned out really bizarre and difficult. Had to improvise options (not too bad, just Ti-Ne), plus had to assert our non-negotiable positions, against other side's strong Se approach (bad, had to deliver Se against Se pressure). Somehow managed to do it - I still have no idea how - but afterwards, I was totally blank. Didn't know if I wanted tea, didn't know if I was hungry or not, couldn't say yes or nay to whether I wanted tea or go to my hotel room, didn't know if I wanted dinner, couldn't fall asleep easily, woke when I didn't mean to, couldn't work out properly if I was cold or just think I'm cold.
That was a pretty bad one. It doesn't usually get that far. I suppose concentrating on holding that correct pitch of Se (I hate having to do it because I tend to overestimate), on top of real-time strategy and translating to team-mates, took more out of me than anything I've done before. Unsurprisingly, I then got sick.Which was really annoying.
Last edited by Kirana; 11-05-2013 at 02:27 PM.
This is Si base/program. Is more stable, steady less subject to panics and the sort...
Also, Si as creative, he tries hard to protect his balance in his mental and emotional states.The ESTj has Ni PoLR. He appreciates when that same thing is not made into a big deal and if someone else is pacing the work and responding to unforeseen or last minute scheduling upsets in terms of re-arranging work, so that the effect of the disturbance to the schedule is deflected or absorbed without dropping any 'balls'.
No, this is, imo, in a stressful situation, his Se flared up. He gets irritated and agitated (Se) and focuses on one single thing (Ti) , this is strong but he's unable to use these IEs with the natural skill of someone TiSe or SeTi.If he has to do it, he can get really stressed and things start descending into chaos, or this one time, he can become quite mired in just a single piece of work he should normally be able to do, unable to see what's important to finish the design enough for its purpose within the time alotted - it's like his Ne just failed.
This is both a failure of your Si-HA and also a lack of valued Te, though it is strong in you. Te-base especially ESTj plans ahead how much time he will spend on some hobby before going to sleep and stays no longer on that (Rational), while the ISTp may stay a little longer but his Te-creative calls him back to his duties and need for being effective so he doesn't trespass a limit too much also in this example.[/quote]I reckon it is the same effect as when I start to veg out with the TV or aimlessly surfing the net and my sleep cycle just goes to pieces when I'm incredibly stressed (Si HA self-destructs haha) - even though I know the behaviour is making things worse.
So you actually didn't answer much, but instead you narrated how ISTp and ESTj, supposedly, react differently to a certain situation. But this is good enough.I'm not sure how I would adapt the above to account for a reserved ESTj vs an outgoing ISTp.
No, I didn't!
No, I should mention what he got stuck on, or rather why he got stuck on it. I didn't mean he was focusing on one task, steadily and doggedly getting the one thing done to the utter exclusion of other things that need done - I think this is what you're thinking. This is a concept drawing that he had to improvise on, to try to answer various hints and indications we got from stakeholders who weren't very specific (or even necessarily knew why they wanted the things they said) but had broad demands. He kept rolling through graphics and colour and putting things in and out. Some versions of the same drawing had way too many innovations on it that it would probably begin to communicate unintended things to someone looking afresh, though I could see how he might've got there. Some had almost everything taken out and did not address any of the indicated queries we got. He was never going to be able to finish, because by that point he could no longer tell which idea was good and which was not, and what the third party might take away from having them in or out. At the time, when you remind him just one thing the drawing needs to communicate in addition to what's typically expected, though he understands the need, he seemed unable to think of how that might be done. When not under severe time pressure, ordinarily he can come up with options so it isn't a baseline inability. With the time pressure removed, and some Ne jump starting, within half a day he fixed it up to something pretty good.
On the Se flaring up, you could be right, but I can't tell. He might've got irritated and agitated but I didn't get to see it. In fact, I recall how out of the ordinary and so very frustrating that was so close to the deadline, since he never refuses to talk to me. But those few days when he was spiralling into a funnel of infinite drawing versions and especially the very last day, he flat refused to talk to me or reply IMs for even the simplest question and won't let me come over. I had to call his colleague to 'spy' on his monitor to find out whether we might have a chance to meet the deadline or not at all, and pass on messages. Considering he's an irrational subtype, and seems to dislike being seen grumpy (I once joked it might be fun to see what he's like grumpy - he didn't joke back but quite seriously replied, no you don't), it is entirely possible he was in fact incredibly agitated and did not want me to hear it or see it. From this I learned to arrange the next one differently, breaking the work up a bit to give the illusion of an easy pace while masking the impending doom of the final deadline. I'm hoping it works!
No comments on the other stuff. Although I didn't realise that Si creative manifests that way. When I get pressured with Se, invariably I perceive it as a threat to my autonomy - is that Ne creative doing the same? Or something else entirely? But I digress.
Yes, I get your point. Well, to your question. IMO, when you get pressured with Se it only logically suggests you're being hit in your PoLR, if you're LII really, but any deffense mechanism is aimed primarily at preserving the individual's creative function, so it can be both things. The creative function is very preserved because it supports the program or main or leading function, and without the creative function going alright, the leading function tends to collapse.No, I didn't!
No, I should mention what he got stuck on, or rather why he got stuck on it. I didn't mean he was focusing on one task, steadily and doggedly getting the one thing done to the utter exclusion of other things that need done - I think this is what you're thinking. This is a concept drawing that he had to improvise on, to try to answer various hints and indications we got from stakeholders who weren't very specific (or even necessarily knew why they wanted the things they said) but had broad demands. He kept rolling through graphics and colour and putting things in and out. Some versions of the same drawing had way too many innovations on it that it would probably begin to communicate unintended things to someone looking afresh, though I could see how he might've got there. Some had almost everything taken out and did not address any of the indicated queries we got. He was never going to be able to finish, because by that point he could no longer tell which idea was good and which was not, and what the third party might take away from having them in or out. At the time, when you remind him just one thing the drawing needs to communicate in addition to what's typically expected, though he understands the need, he seemed unable to think of how that might be done. When not under severe time pressure, ordinarily he can come up with options so it isn't a baseline inability. With the time pressure removed, and some Ne jump starting, within half a day he fixed it up to something pretty good.
On the Se flaring up, you could be right, but I can't tell. He might've got irritated and agitated but I didn't get to see it. In fact, I recall how out of the ordinary and so very frustrating that was so close to the deadline, since he never refuses to talk to me. But those few days when he was spiralling into a funnel of infinite drawing versions and especially the very last day, he flat refused to talk to me or reply IMs for even the simplest question and won't let me come over. I had to call his colleague to 'spy' on his monitor to find out whether we might have a chance to meet the deadline or not at all, and pass on messages. Considering he's an irrational subtype, and seems to dislike being seen grumpy (I once joked it might be fun to see what he's like grumpy - he didn't joke back but quite seriously replied, no you don't), it is entirely possible he was in fact incredibly agitated and did not want me to hear it or see it. From this I learned to arrange the next one differently, breaking the work up a bit to give the illusion of an easy pace while masking the impending doom of the final deadline. I'm hoping it works!
No comments on the other stuff. Although I didn't realise that Si creative manifests that way. When I get pressured with Se, invariably I perceive it as a threat to my autonomy - is that Ne creative doing the same? Or something else entirely? But I digress.
Also be aware that Ne and Se are not opposites, they're the same thing viewed from totally opposing directions so to speak. They're the same energy, so to speak. The same goes for Si/Ni, Fi/Ti/, Fe/Te. These pairs are the same 'energy' viewed from different angles. For example I can tell you, Ne likes to create and move to new things and new ideas, so you see it is movement, just like Se is movement, but Ne is more on the abstract mental level, ideas, possibilites, Se is more concrete level, it moves the body, it moves objects, etc. So all the 8 Information Elements can be broken down into 2 sets of pairs which are the same coin, but different sides of it, so to speak using another metaphor. If you want to know then, what is the opposite of Ne for example, I tell you, it's Si. Apply the same logic and you have the opposing elements Te/Fi, Ti/Fe, etc... This explains a whole lot. For example, why Ti leading types can seem too unemotional, why Te leading types can seem to not relate much well to others in a general manner, why Si leading types can be so uncreative and stuck in inertia of their own inability to see possibilities and get bored at life... because the leading function having its opposite, its opposite is going to manifest as a major difficulty for the individual.
I have found that many LIIs will be very watchful of this, noticing when they're being pressured with Se, and have a very stubborn, unpolite, passive-aggressive, sometimes aggressive reaction and sometimes simply not liking the person who hit their PoLR for the rest of their lives. They can be very strong people inwards, in spite of the common misunderstanding that LIIs are somehow weak, I totally disagree, to me they're one of the strongest personalities on these 16 types of Socionics.
You are ESTj without any further doubt.
Nah ISTp likes all the drugs
@sssonyyy : in spite of it being irritating to type your username, because it's confusing with so many repeated letters, I wonder then and ask you, which drugs the ESTj would like to do?
You could just quote me instead mention.
I have no idea which drug the ESTj would be drawn to, but I would recommend benzos.
Ah if you're right then I'm ESTj really HAHAHA... I love benzos. I don't abuse them though, I just take the prescribed dose. I remember I enjoyed taking Rohypnol, sometimes up to 5 pills of it, and it made me feel like floating, and so much at peace. But this was many years ago. Rohypnol is actually forbidden in the USA also. To me, the best benzo of all times. I really don't know how they got so stupid at the FDA and banned Rohypnol because it was a date-rape drug, but there are so many others! They just targeted Rohypnol because it was probably the most used, but there are stronger drugs that could be used for date-raping available in the USA, most of them are even not benzos.
Lol. I guess it's not type related, I love benzos too. Never heard of rohypnol; very fond of xanax; weaned off it due to difficulty to acquire in the US. (I was in India for 3 years before that, where it was super easy to get and awesome.)
IME, "e", would be the drug of choice for LSE's. Goes by MDMA, and it's prolly the number two past alcohol. It's makes a person all about Si and Fi, no matter who you are. An SLI, IME, often seems a little bored of it. That type might rather prefer an upper, or even a natural narcotic like mushrooms: opens up all kinds of possibilities (Ne).
(by the way, I'm only being half serious).
My favorite drug is by far ectasy and mushrooms come second place. The few LSE i know don't do drugs but they drink a lot.
wow this discussion degenerated to this?
ime there are many drug-free delta STs. what are the differences between those LSEs and SLIs?
fwiw, i have seen some delta STs gravitate to alcohol (it's not a blanket characteristic though). May not be type related, though Si could plausibly play a role. I cant comment on the other, harder drugs as I dont hang around drug users, which is most likely why this discussion bores me. Not useful info. I dont think drug addiction is type related, fwiw.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I'm thinking a choice of drug for an LSE could be something like marijuana, or in the line of similar affect causing substances. Something that slows the the busy mind and takes the edge off.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I really think that WorkaholicsAnon is partially right, when she says this has degenerated into a drug discussion. She could've not mentioned her own personal drug-free lifestyle because that is also straying off-topic, but nobody's perfect. So I agree that this discussion should come back down to the differences between Delta STs.
yeah, alcohol seems to be a big one, but I will have to conclude that it's not so much the drug (object) as what the person gets out of it. So there isn't a drug of choice for a type. If it were that easy I would type by drug
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Where are the pictures of horses? I will go find some.
Socionics -
the16types.info
Well, so many people tell me I'm LSE, this gets confusing to me because I don't see the need to work a lot, I'm not a workaholic and probably never will be, in fact yes I appreciate working and I think it is a necessary part of life because one has to make money somehow. But I'd never be for example as workaholic as an ISTj cousin who's also a lawyer but the guy works 24/7, I think omg he's gone insane because everything in his life became totally secondary to work. I feel a stronger need for relationships, especially sexual-affective relationships, more than for work. I even could type my cousin as ESTj going by his behavior but he's the perfect description of a very serious, quiet, reserved, military-like ISTj. So I think sometimes these type behaviors are not facts for everyone.
And I've been thinking, from reading various descriptions, that the most likely for me are ISTp and ISTj, because somehow I have so many behavioral aspects of an ISTj.
and also you said you're lazy...
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
*Defensive remark beginning*
The Drug-Free award will be arriving in the mail!
Kids and young adults under 20, say no to drugs, stay in school kids.
For adults, what they choose to do is their own choice. As long as they are not driving, or operating machinery, or letting it get out of hand in their life, then by all means go for it. Drug use =/= drug abuse. *Defensive remark over*
I think that the really obvious difference is that one is an extrovert and one is an introvert. If you really understand what these two terms are talking about in reality then it would become obvious about the differences. These two, IME, are actually pretty similar in terms of their rough seemingly confident exteriors and their soft, gentle, teddy bear undersides.
A SLI might look like he is avoiding you, and kind of smile and hum and haw and make a joke and an LSE might just say no, "I don't want to come with you."
The SLI is looking for that "spokesperson", whereas an LSE is that spokesperson. It really all comes down to that ext/int split.
Then you get into J/P. For that I would have to talk about a short little story. I met this guy recently at a Halloween party, he was friends of a group of friends. So we were all together the whole night from a dance, to the bar, to the pub, then finally to this off the hook yo house party. Anyway, I rarely party and haven't done so all year so I was really itching to just cut loose cause it's been a really tough go this year. So this guy, dressed like Mr Clean with the shaved head and everything and just huge body building arms and what not was hanging out. We never talked the whole night until the end at the house party. He sits down next to me and starts getting into what I want to do for work and what have I done and that I should go up to the north and work in the oil patch and that he is a welder and yada yada. I ask him what do you do, and he sorta smiles and says "well it's complicated?", and I say, "okay try me", and he hesitates and then says, "I'm a welder". I kinda laugh and start smiling cause i'm thinking really, why is that so complicated? And I say that to him and he says "it's complicated because thats not all I do", and then he pauses and looks at me and seems to be waiting for something and I go, "mmmhhhmm" and sort of prompt him on. Then he explains that he works putting a huge pipeline from a lake and is building this intake for water to supply a new oil patch project and talks about the details, and so on and I am smiling and start feeling kind of, Idk, joyful? and he keeps going on about it and seems so happy to talk about his work, cause I figure he doesn't expect to be listened to (I learned a long time ago that if you want people to feel good about talking with you, you let them talk about themselves). And I was thinking this until he suddenly points the conversation towards me and says "look man you should come up there and think it out, you make great money". And I explain that machinery is frikin boring to me and I could never get into it and see myself doing that as a career. And he's all like noncommittal and shrugs it off and says "well your young you will find something". It was really cool. It was like meeting someone who right off the bat I had this great re pore. I'm thinking it was activity relationship, but in all honesty knowing this socionic shit who the fuck knows. But one thing I took away from this is the guy is an introvert like me, but is introverted in his own unique way. He also seems to follow others suggestion, for example when the rest of my friends all took a cab van home he went with them (but not before trying to find a girls bag in the house for her while she waited outside). When he left, a younger guy there at this house party (cause it was close to 9 in the morning at this point) said pretty humorously: "Mr Clean didn't clean shit". Haha, fucking alphas.
I meet up at my friends place a while later cause it was unsafe for me to drive for a while. When I get there everyone is in bed except him. I crash on the couch and over hear him giving the same advice to this other guy. My new friend says "arn't we playing this music to loud?" and the other guy says no it's okay, and my friend just lets it go but I can see that he is just a little apprehensive about it, but that whatever, what can you do? So he eventually leaves and I look up from under my eyelids and smile and nod and he smiles and nods, no goodbye, just a understanding. Like I said nice guy, kind of full of himself, but nice guy. He left with this girl he met at the party and there you have it.
He seemed happy enough working up there in a camp and coming back to the city every few months. It's the J/P switch that I think leads P's to far corners of this world in search of who knows what. Ending up as a welder on this pipeline would have required a fair bit of exploring. I just can't imagine a LSE doing that sort of lifestyle over the long term. Can't really put me finger on why but I think it has to do with Fi suggestive, or dual seeking. Who the heck knows? LSE are a little less "cool". They seem kind of dorky? More so then SLI.
Anyway, I know this isn't very technical language, and I so appreciate those on this site that can do that so eloquently. I just can't. Wish I could.
(I want to add that this could all be wrong. My whole grasp on socionics and typings. I have learned that one can never know, so take this with a grain of salt).
I would say the discussion just got escalated, but that's just me.
what are you talking about...of COURSE i'm perfect!
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
To me, your comment that I have quoted indicates that you are an EJ type moreso than IP. My SLI friends are much less likely to impose shoulds or should nots.
You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k
On Wikisocion, I saw an Oldham style description of ESTJ as Leisurely, and that they value and protect their comfort. Here is a link: www.the16types.info/info/types/ESTJ.htm
You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k
I wouldn't pay that much heed to that, honestly.
Would ESTj be far more perfectionistic than ISTp? Orderly, systematized. If things get out of control, mentally quite unable to deal with the situation. ESTj would have more of a hard conscience?
They don't have a conscience. They act very well so they can assume any role they want. They act like they have one to appease someone for end objectives. End objectives are whatever they want from the person for themselves. Whether that's money, sex, financial advice, companionship.
If any of them had any heart they would do something not for their own end objective but just purely for the other person's sense of safety, protection, comfort and wellbeing.
Why is Fi there? To build the person up..."it's ok that you did all these BAD things but you're a good person in this way. Let me make you feel better, let me say things that make you feel like a human being."
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Not sure about the context you mean, but I have observed my LSE colleague have a LOT of difficulty showing unfinished work (i.e. a draft), and engage in excessive and unnecessary fiddling particularly if he thinks/knows his work will be scrutinised.... which causes serious deadline problems. So yeah, you could say that he's a perfectionist.
That's not to say I'm not, or our other colleagues are not (including the SLI). Maybe it's more that he has the most trouble working out what's important and then holding on to that without second-guessing, and finishing the work based on that. Ti-ignoring? After all, most of our 1-on-1 discussions, especially the parts that seem most appreciated, revolve around the big picture, and how that 'edits out' the specific work he's doing.
I don't even know why this needs said but, yes at least two of 'them' have a heart and a conscience too. One is female and one is male. I know them personally, and would trust them both implicitly. They are protective people; the only time I've ever seen their Se is when they are provoked to protect or stand up for something/someone. People of all types can be good and can also be evil. I, for one, know roughly how my functional traits would manifest, as an evil LII.And it would be far worse than just taking advantage of some people.
I will say this though: I think LSE is one of those types that are highly suggestible to social/peer standards, i.e. "upbringing". Generally moral or culturally ethical community should produce an LSE norm of upstanding and protective people. More hedonistic and individualistic cultures should produce an LSE norm that's different from that.
I think Maritsa is having a real problem with some LSE in her life. Actually a lot of what she says applies indeed but it is only very unbalanced LSEs that are like these. If balanced they are more in touch with their feelings. The thing she doesn't like is that LSEs are very smart generally. They can use and abuse people for their own means because they have the ability to do so, but not all LSEs are like this.
I think I'm LSE, and I am definitely a person with conscience. It's hard for me to sometimes not feel anything at all, just total orientation towards my goals. But I help people. I have a hard time being tolerant to people, forgiving them for their bad deeds.
I think life is a process which eventually ends so you have to make the best of it for yourself. In this process I do not use people but I can trade with them, because if you look clearly everything is an exchange. You give me this, I give you that. The world goes around like this, human beings trade with each other all the time. The most blatant expression of this is that this world is run by money, which is exchange. You pay to get something. Nothing's for free. So I don't see any point in criticizing LSE and stereotyping them as evil people.
Maritsa has definitely lost it. Went nuts.
Yeah, the kind I'm referring to is one who doesn't come from a stable family and the kind who doesn't follow a good spiritual and normative guides of communal faith.I don't even know why this needs said but, yes at least two of 'them' have a heart and a conscience too. One is female and one is male. I know them personally, and would trust them both implicitly. They are protective people; the only time I've ever seen their Se is when they are provoked to protect or stand up for something/someone. People of all types can be good and can also be evil. I, for one, know roughly how my functional traits would manifest, as an evil LII.
I will say this though: I think LSE is one of those types that are highly suggestible to social/peer standards, i.e. "upbringing". Generally moral or culturally ethical community should produce an LSE norm of upstanding and protective people. More hedonistic and individualistic cultures should produce an LSE norm that's different from that.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
ESTj talkema with their hands, they are emotivists and can't stand negative environments; they are both aggressive in bed so I hear. LSE swing (MY THEORY) in the right direction
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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