Your typing of forum members (archived '15-'17)

[Enters Laughing]

I was talking about where you said that it wasn't respectful, and this also speaks to your point now about it creating a negative atmosphere. These are things you are putting on re-typing that is not inherent in re-typing, lack of respect and negative atmospheres are created by individuals who decide to re-type out of a variety of reasons. This isn't a problem in re-typing itself, it does not inherently show of lack of respect, neither does the word itself create a negative atmosphere as in not everyone that throws out a re-typing for someone unsolicited will create a negative atmosphere, be disrespectful, or be devoid of value. Thats the point I was getting at. For that reason, we can't erect a rule against it.

The issue is with private individuals. If someone does not wish to have their personality assessed on this forum, we should respect that, even if they have publicly declared a type for themselves. If they are talking about things in the public sphere, then it is fine to talk about them. If there are instances where there is a point of controversy when the individual is discussing the types of others, it will always be perfectly possible to debate those topics on their own merits with no reference to the individual's type, because the controversy could have no bearing on their type as long as they have kept to their maxim on desiring to keep their private self private.

[ashlesha]

My only issues with being retyped have been when it's done in a hinting passive aggressive fashion, or when it's insults disguised as dispassionate analysis. But these kinds of things are almost impossible to put an end to. People will find a way to phrase things in order to continue with impunity.

[Enters Laughing]

My only issues with being retyped have been when it's done in a hinting passive aggressive fashion, or when it's insults disguised as dispassionate analysis. But these kinds of things are almost impossible to put an end to. People will find a way to phrase things in order to continue with impunity.

I agree with this, although have no doubt done that myself when parroting one individual in particular.

Perhaps it would be best to focus on the most serial offender, who systematically (albeit inconsistently) de-Humanises others directly as well as indirectly via Type Assassination through their own model of typology.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I know this sounds overly simple, but simply not being so stuck on yourself can help alleviate a lot of the bullshit and mental drama when it's becoming too out of hand. That one mental concept or something really doesn't define you, even if it has some truth to it.

[Bertrand]

I know this sounds overly simple, but simply not being so stuck on yourself can help alleviate a lot of the bullshit and mental drama when it's becoming too out of hand. That one mental concept or something really doesn't define you, even if it has some truth to it.

exactly, I feel like if you're so attached to your type that others speculating about it potentially hurts or offends you the real moral policy is to get over it not limit the speculations

[ashlesha]

I think people in this thread have been extremely clear in expressing why it's not the speculation in and of itself that bothers them.

[Bertrand]

I think people in this thread have been extremely clear in expressing why it's not the speculation in and of itself that bothers them.

what? really? cause I feel like that's exactly what its been

[ashlesha]

what? really? cause I feel like that's exactly what its been

Can't help ya

[Eliza Thomason]

I kind of feel like ESE is the universal default typing people use when they don't like someone

I have seen that, being "accused" of being ESE myself! I have an ESE ex, so I know ESE (I can say I have known a personality-disordered ESEintimately). But I also have closse ESE friends and lifelong relations, and unlike my ex they persons of sound mind, and extremely admirable people. So I really don't get why they have becomethe insult type here on the16t...

I'm not discounting EII but whatever type Maritsa is, it's weird. Apparently she VI's just like my EII sister in person, but my sister is nowhere near as vindictive, aggressive or nutty. My sister is like this peaceful, drama-free person who would never waste her time on bs (though she is also a 9). I think it just goes to show that there are both crazy and healthy people of all types.

Interesting. Probably the 9 has a big effect on her avoidance of conflict. EII's are my mirror, and I have closest friends who are EII like Maritsa. I agree they are like your sister; none of them are vindictive, aggressive, or nutty, and they clam up rather than involve themselves in conflict. They all are drama-free and peaceable - EXCEPT those moments when they when their decisive "judging"comes to the fore and they are pushed to the corner, and then they bite. They respond swiftly, strongly and stubbornly. If you judge a person's whole way of being based on how they act when they are backed in a corner (or, in the case of EII, when they FEEL they are backed in a corner) then that wouldn't be accurate, of course. So that is what I am seeing here. Maritsa is not at all vindictive, aggressive or nutty - but she can come across that way in those moments that she feels she is backed up against a wall.

Starfall, I just want to say that I never have felt confident and sure that you are IEI. Since that doesn't fit with your self-type, I try to relate to you as not-a-type, just a person. I haven't completely ruled out IEI for you - like I can completely rule out ESE and SEE for you, and some others of course. Not a Delta, and probably not an Alpha, so there are 8 types eliminated of the 16. And I can eliminate more from Beta and Gamma... that's how I type when I work at it, I eliminate. I also compare to types that to me are clear examples of their type. For example, I see @Aylen as a super-clear example of an IEI. The thing is I never get a correlation between the vibe I get from Aylen and the one I get from you. There is a strength and a steadiness in you that I correlate to Lungs. Its a down-to-earthness, sort of, whereas IEI instead is in-the-clouds, or flitting from place to place like a butterfly all the time. And also I get a Gamma vibe from you sometimes, so, I always lean more to ESI for you than IEI. I haven't settled the matter in my mind. I just thought I'd say so...

ESI is my Supervisee, so I am always afraid to say anything to ESI, assuming I am fated to say all the wrong things... However, ESI is the Gamma representative of Holographic-Panoramic Cognitive Style.. so I can relate on that matter...

[Satan]

eliza, starfall seeming more down-to-earth to you could be her being w3 vs aylen being w5... although image types are more forward and effective rather than down to earth.

[ashlesha]

I've noticed that quality in starfall too and chalked it up to sp/sx groundedness. I don't see a lot of Fi or Ti to justify attributing her steady vibe to ij temperament.

[Satan]

I've noticed that quality in starfall too and chalked it up to sp/sx groundedness. I don't see a lot of Fi or Ti to justify attributing her steady vibe to ij temperament.

isn't e4 sp meant to be dauntless and not really grounded in traditional sense.

[ashlesha]

isn't e4 sp meant to be dauntless and not really grounded in traditional sense.

It's more vibe than behavior. I type my mom sp 4 and she was very heavy & still in her body and feel but her choices were dauntless. I don't know if this applies to starfall though... And instincts are my weakest point when it comes to typing people. Do you type her something else?

[squark]

I've noticed that quality in starfall too and chalked it up to sp/sx groundedness. I don't see a lot of Fi or Ti to justify attributing her steady vibe to ij temperament.

That quality in her makes the SEI typings I've seen make some sense, but yeah IJ doesn't really. Overall, I think IEI still fits best.

[darya]

When it comes to Fi, lungs has a shit-ton more of it than Starfall. They dont seem similar at all to me - with lungs, I can clearly feel the Fe/Fi difference in communication, with Starfall it's just that she's aloofly introverted, like a cat, not Fi leading. If anything else, Starfall would be SEI, which I think she is not. I also don't see Starfall as grounded, more like zoned out, in outer space and extremely ADD with periodically talking and hyperfocusing on her interests and yt videos. Lungs gives off a strict moral center vibe, realist and down to earth, like she doesnt suffer fools gladly. Not similar at all? They dont seem like the type of people that would have similar circle of friends irl or similar hobbyes.

[Satan]

I agree that SEI fits a lot better than ESI (I'm definitely not rational or IJ). I'd say that would probably be the second most likely type for me, given my weird attraction to ILE's. Aspects of ILI also work, but I suck too badly at math & Te shit lol.

you are soft like a sei. fe subtype i suspect.

[Slade]

SEI is a good suggestion for Starfall, and makes more sense on a few levels. She is more similar to Si types on this forum in terms of tone, and the sorts of thoughts she communicates. It's difficult to find examples of Ni, and it's also likely that her history of depression could have contributed to the typing of IEI. I wouldn't be confident typing her definitively either way, but do struggle to see how she is Ni ego.

Though, what I am starting to become more comfortable with is typing niffer away from SLE. I can not conclude that Niffer is an ethical type, but if she isn't then Ti isn't a valued function for her. There's a tendency of hers to not attack the argument itself as much as properties surrounding the argument, whether it be a particular person, their history, or the way they said something. Anything, it seems other than the actual validity of the links within a point. When she actually does attempt to make sense, her conclusions are odd. I don't know how else to say this other than a warped version of what the conclusion should be in terms of deductive logic. She also gets into frequent fights with IEI's, and criticizes them for their Te PoLR, which is odd for an SLE to say the least.

In her original typing questionnaire suggested SLI popped up, and I believe that is a fair typing, at least as to how it compares to SLE. It's very possible to me that Niffer and Myst are Delta ST mirrors. I believe that they have their own ideas what logic is which doesn't correlate with the logic of introverted thinking. In Myst's case, there are more claims for her being logical from herself rather than actual evidence showcasing her capability for deductive conclusions. She also asks for other's conclusions to an unacceptable degree for a 4D function, especially considering that fact that she has difficulty understanding other's points the majority of the time. Niffer has a similar problem where she believes she is being logical and the other person isn't, despite not actually dealing with the logical links at hand. Also, what is interesting about these two (edit: mainly thinking about Myst here, I cant say for sure Niffer shares this) is they both reject implications, or meaning behind content in a way that strikes me as distinctly Ni de-valuing. This kind of hyper-literal interpretation are what I see in Delta ST's. I have seen this attempted to be argued away as Ne PoLR, but Ne PoLR does not reject implications, meaning, or assumptions. It rejects potentiality without context towards the probability of a given situation, which is what Ni values, the probability. Ni in it's nature is assumptive, and deals with the same variables they take issue with.

[Bertrand]

This kind of hyper-literal interpretation are what I see in Delta ST's. I have seen this attempted to be argued away as Ne PoLR, but Ne PoLR does not reject implications, meaning, or assumptions. It rejects potentiality without context towards the probability of a given situation, which is what Ni values, the probability. Ni in it's nature is assumptive, and deals with the same variables they take issue with.

I want to say I associate hyper literalism with alpha NTs as well, but I get how you're using it here is a shade off. And I agree its a super weird corner of subjective understanding because its like hyper literal while not understanding itself as such, whereas alpha NTs understand themselves to be hyper literal and thus escape the kind of hyper literalism you're talking (or at least I think you're talking about) here, which is more like "whoosh" (Delta ST) moments, not "I get it but these are the actual implications of what you're saying" (Alpha NT)

Also your NE PoLR is spot on. Its more like I consider myself very Ne capable, but I reject a ton, perhaps too much coming from my very narrow Ni, and it shocks the hell out of me when I realize I've messed up or got something wrong from failure to consider the possibilities (painful, in a word). As far as interest in the outer situation, I would say its very high, but its high qualified by a very narrow limiting scope. Its narrowed precisely because its high (strong Ni valuing).. its almost hard for me to conceive of interest in the outer situation as being simply what is possible without respect to what most relevant or likely. Ne for its own sake is hard to wrap my head around because I think of it so strongly from within an Ni context. And yet I feel like from within that context xSI can be highly, amazingly, creative and imaginitive, perhaps moreso than any other type when operating within their sandbox. What I mean is no one is going to do better than an xSI what an xSI has chosen to devote themselves to whole heartedly. Like in other words, no LII is going to come up with a rubric that will write better songs than an ESI musician... a good example of this is how alpha NT music tends to try and do music by the numbers, they do it in their own alpha way which is dominated by certain modes and it can't come close to an ESI, although it might take an ESI to recognize that. I'm sure there's an LSI equivalent, where deltas would like to "get at" what they do but it falls flat, etc... that is the benefit of xSI hyper focus. Its very individualistic (human), when you think about it like that, and it defies all the attempts to automate or systematize it. individualized is how i'd describe xSI (no one could fill Stalin's shoes, especially no LSE, etc) owing to their focused Ni, whereas Ni egos have more diffuse Ni and greater sensitivity to Ne. they cast a broader conceptual net (you could think of Hamlet providing options and Maxim following them all the way down, etc)

As far as Niffer goes, I have no idea what type she could be

I feel like it might just be 1D Fi and the difference between LSE and SLE is how they respond to hits on it. I've known at least one SLI that didn't come off as oblivious in this way, but it was hard to tell because Fe PoLR kind of made it seem like they were. In other words, with SLI they "get it" but it comes out wrong, leading you to think maybe they didn't. Whereas with LSE and SLE they're just straight numb to it a lot of times

[maniac]

Ya'll are so bad at getting an intuitive feel of people. Starfall is not soft.

[Olimpia]

BurningIce aka Loony Deliria: IEE-Fi, Sx/So 4

[Olimpia]

To those who think Starfall could be SEI:

I do agree with @Slade's explanation as to why she is most likely ISFx.

I do not agree with the conclusion she is SEI mainly because I think it is pretty clear that she is both Ni valuing and Type 4 (I believe Alphas cannot be Type 4). Also she does not come across as Te PoLR to me at all, she relies a lot on quoting source material and general type descriptions when typing, as well as refuses to type someone by logically dissecting their display of Information elements or their order of the Information elements in Model A; she does not delve into Ti basically, I don't see her valuing it nor having it "boosted" (which would be the case if she was IEI-Ni or SEI-Si for that matter).

She seems to be in a continuous "Fi-Ni loop", due to her Fi subtype, boosted Ni HA, and Type 4-ness. This makes her use her Creative Se less, but it is there and comes out once in a while, esp. whenever she feels like having to defend herself. (Also, people should keep in mind that ESIs have 4D Si and not Se, so their use of Se won't be as "in your face" and regular as it is the case with Se leads or some ESI-Se and LSI-Se people.) Just like Ghost said, she is not actually "soft". However, average 4s usually have a "Victim mindset", add to that boosted Fi-Ni channels and it is easy to see how someone like that could feel like they were "soft", meaning emotionally vulnerable (esp. when they are a feminine female; IEIs are commonly presented as being the most "feminine" type in Socionics, so it is only natural for a feminine Type 4 to relate to that).

What she interprets as Se seeking is Te seeking to me (as I said, heavy reliance on canon source material, feeling like requiring and wishing for help to be more productive and have better logic etc.), as well as most likely "Imago seeking" – meaning, her romantic/sexual "type" seems to be Se lead, which makes her think her Dual must be Se lead. That is a common fallacy, feeling like one's Imago is one's Dual because of the intensity of emotions and attraction. Also, SLEs are stereotypically the most "masculine" type in the Socion, so a feminine woman will naturally be drawn to that.

At last, the stereotypical ESI in Socionics is Type 6, which I find to be a flaw in the descriptions (to me it is a flaw because it leads to mistypes and rigid stereotyping). Starfall being Te seeking, she heavily relies on those generalized descriptions, not seeing herself like a Type 6 but instead relating much better to the Type 4 aspects of the IEI descriptions. And that is why lungs is easily accepted as ESI – because she is Type 6. ESIs of all other Enneagram types are usually mistyped by default: as SEI when Type 9, or IEI when Type 4. Based on anecdotal evidence and my observations, most (if not all) ESIs are one of those three Enneagram types. Unfortunately, that means 2/3 of ESIs will primarily be mistyped as either SEI or IEI (if the distributions of the Enneagram types was equal). Once in a while an ESI 6w5 could be mistyped as SLI or LSI if they were seen displaying their Ti Role too much, and almost all contraphobic ESI-Se people (with 8 in tritype) mistype as 8 and will be mistyped as Se lead, but those ESIs are not too common anyhow.

At the very end, for those of you who will say she is not Ne PoLR: The Fi subtype of ESI has "shielded" Ne PoLR. That means that their PoLR won't be obvious and somewhat protected. They will be less negatively affected by someone's Ne. Spotting someone's Ne PoLR is difficult to do; it mostly shows itself as the indvidual being sort of "blind" to alternative routes and how things could pan out or be differently; there is a certain rigidity and "closed-mindedness", in that they are blind to all the alternatives. It is difficult to describe... Ne PoLR is like a tunnel vision. ISxj can be very focused on the "one way" how something either is logically or ethically, or just situationally. Something is either wrong or it is right, good or bad, like this or that. There is a lack of flexibility. But again, ESI-Fi and LSI-Ti have less bad PoLR, so they can see things in a slightly more "flexible" manner.

[maniac]

BurningIce aka Loony Deliria: IEE-Fi, Sx/So 4

Not a 4, where do you see shame? Seems 6, and not soc last

[Olimpia]

Not a 4, where do you see shame? Seems 6, and not soc last

SO blindspot, followed by SO second 4s have the least Type 4 shame.

The shame aspect is connected to the SO instinct. SO blindspot does not have a Social focus (obviously), and SO second has the most balanced take on SO - and that means SO second 4s have the most balanced attitude towards type 4 shame.

[maniac]

SO blindspot, followed by SO second 4s have the least shame.

The shame aspect is connected to the SO instinct. SO blindspot does not have a Social focus (obviously), and SO second has the most balanced take on SO - and that means SO second 4s have the most balanced attitude towards type 4 shame.

All 4s have shame because their need is to be unique and broken, and to be that they have to dislike themselves and see themselves different and as an alien.
You type Lady Gaga 4 too when she obviously has 0 shame about her as a person. Just because a person sticks out or is weird doesnt mean theyre a 4.

Fours are self-aware, sensitive, and reserved. They are emotionally honest, creative, and personal, but can also be moody and self-conscious. Withholding themselves from others due to feeling vulnerable and defective, they can also feel disdainful and exempt from ordinary ways of living. They typically have problems with melancholy, self-indulgence, and self-pity. At their Best: inspired and highly creative, they are able to renew themselves and transform their experiences.

[darya]

BurningIce is 6w7 imo.

[darya]

You type Lady Gaga 4 too when she obviously has 0 shame about her as a person. Just because a person sticks out or is weird doesnt mean theyre a 4.

Yeah, Lady Gaga and Madonna are not 4's in any way.

[Olimpia]

All 4s have shame because their need is to be unique and broken, and to be that they have to dislike themselves and see themselves different and as an alien.
You type Lady Gaga 4 too when she obviously has 0 shame about her as a person. Just because a person sticks out doesnt mean theyre a 4.

Lady Gaga is overly concerned with being unique, isn't that obvious? Her crazy outfits (and very name) are such a cry for attention and being loved for her uniqueness (very 4w3). Marilyn Manson does the same thing (but with a darker and less popularity concerned w5 spin). They push their uniqueness or "deranged-ness" unto society with their secondary SO and contraflow nature.

Btw, found this simple Lady Gaga quote:
"I was so ashamed of who I was."

P.S: The more unhealthy a Type 4, the more ashamed they'll be. She obviously used to be more unhealthy in the past and is doing better now.

[darya]

NO. People say lots of things, that's such superficial enneagram typing.

[Olimpia]

BurningIce is obviously an image type imo, browse through her videos, she tries to have a "unique" outfit in every one of them.

[Olimpia]

NO. People say lots of things, that's such superficial enneagram typing.

Look at her crazy "unique" outfits (very image oriented) and her focus on being an "artist", and those are stereotypical hints at Type 4 ness.

The quote was just a random find, I have seen it today for the first time.

P.S: Dunno about Madonna being 4, she may not be after all, but I am rather certain Lady Gaga and Marilyn Manson are 4s (Sx/So).

[maniac]

Lady Gaga is overly concerned with being unique, isn't that obvious? Her crazy outfits (and very name) are such a cry for attention and being loved for her uniqueness (very 4w3). Marilyn Manson does the same thing (but with a darker and less popularity concerned w5 spin). They push their uniqueness or "deranged-ness" unto society with their secondary SO.

Btw, found this simple Lady Gaga quote:

"I was so ashamed of who I was."

P.S: The more unhealthy a Type 4, the more ashamed they'll be. She obviously used to be more unhealthy in the past and is doing better now.

The difference between Gaga and Marilyn is that Marilyn spews hate at "the beautiful people" showing that he's not one of them, hes an outsider. Gaga shows no 4 envy/hate at "regular people". And Marilyn is not a diva who walks around like this:



Marilyn's whole shtick is that he's different and 'ugly' and a weirdo IN A BAD WAY. 7w8s like Gaga often wear extreme things because they want attention and because its fun for them. 7s dont take life too seriously and with a 8 wing they have the confidence to look totally wack and rock it and have fun with it.


Ok, why was she ashamed of herself? Anyone can be ashamed of themselves because they have been a bad person, drug addict, whatever. But for 4 its a core thing that is always with them and its not because of their actions, its because of who they are, their DNA.

[maniac]

BurningIce is obviously an image type imo, browse through her videos, she tries to have a "unique" outfit in every one of them.

Do you only type people based on their clothing?

[lynn]

@Cassandra who do you think is IEI on this forum?

[Olimpia]

@Cassandra who do you think is IEI on this forum?

From all the self-typed IEIs on here...
Those who are the most likely IEI in my opinion would be Aylen and MaviTilki.

Maybe you? I don't know you too well yet to tell.

[darya]

Look at her crazy "unique" outfits (very image oriented) and her focus on being an "artist", and those are stereotypical hints at Type 4 ness.

The quote was just a random find, I have seen it today for the first time.

She could be 6/7 space or 3w4 imo. I've read compelling debates about how her style is 7 - like: just throwing all the shit that exists together - the overabundance of everything, greediness. And also how she wants to be a voice for everybody, every bullied person, like the community comes together (Little Monsters who she cares for and they defend her from others )- which points away from 4 and to 6. 4's are not about having their own army, they are above that. They call her Momma Monster lol. "both, Gaga and her Little Monsters will use the term "Monsterpaws Up" or "Paws Up" to show they agree with something" - all very community like. She could also be a 3 with Fame, Paparazzi, Poker Face, who has come to 6 and became healthier.

I really don't think an eccentric outfit make a 4 Also (not connected to this), many 6's are self-conscious and very ashamed of themselves, thinking nobody likes them and they don't fit anywhere. That's why every second (possibly rebel teenager) 6 mistypes themselves into a 4.

[Chae]

Those who are the most likely IEI in my opinion would be Aylen and MaviTilki.

Yeah those two! Aylen the Ni version, Mavi had more Fe when we talked in German.

[Chae]

Practical test to detect base: Throw @Starfall and me together, see what happens.

Let's start with the program!!

[Olimpia]

Yeah those two! Aylen the Ni version, Mavi had more Fe when we talked in German.

I'd say Aylen is the Type 4 (Sx/Sp) version, and Mavi could be the Type 9 (So/Sx) version.
Not sure about their subtypes tbh, could go either way.

[Chae]

I'd say Aylen is the Type 4 (Sx/Sp) version, and Mavi could be the Type 9 (So/Sx) version.
Not sure about their subtypes tbh, could go either way.

Yes! Aylen with a 5-wing, Mavi 8 more than 1.

[lynn]

From all the self-typed IEIs on here...
Those who are the most likely IEI in my opinion would be Aylen and MaviTilki.

Maybe you? I don't know you too well yet to tell.

are you undecided about the others or do you type them as something else? i think i actually trust most of the self-typings on here. for me, it's the Ni subtype which is which extremely difficult to grasp, though.