Disturbed's type from what you know about him?

[Disturbed]

I'm still not sure about whether I'm more Ti or Fi valuing, although I think myself much stronger in Fi, but was wondering by what people here thought about how strong I was in Ti. Going by what Aushra Augusta's definitions of information elements in the dual nature of man, which, along with V.I. is the best source I would go by when trying to decide my type; about how I fit her definition of Fi:
I have strong dislikes and likes and attraction and repulsion, I'm pretty average at telling when someone is attracted or repulsed by me, I feel what's repulsive and attractive to me immediately and strongly and it varies by the situation. What I pursued most in my own most in life were 1) my friendships with beautiful intelligent people and those people themselves, but only sometimes being around the people I loved and 2) good, immersive video games more than anything else, really, . There were a lot of things I hated, there were only a few people who annoyed me so much that I hated them, I didn't separate my anger from hatred much.

I think I fit her definition of Ti less, because I don't think I see objective relationships between objects, the values of things easily, definitely not as each situation comes and I'm poor at size discrimination.

However, I seem to value Ti and Fi equally (according to the definitions in the dual nature of man).

I'm definitely strong and valuing of Se--I really need people and myself to be internally and externally strong and I'm an esthete--notice beauty quite quickly, can lose control when I see someone or something beautiful, and I love am fascinated with beautiful things; I feel whether I have volition or am weak and unmobile and pretty much instinctively pick up on other peoples' volition or willpower, as long as I'm not in my head, although I'm not all that able to resist other peoples' will against me.

According to her definition of Fe, I don't value others' emotional states all the time although I usually notice them; I mainly only value it when I think it will keep a relationship I want going or get me what I want or bring attention to me, I like attention sometimes. I'm don't feel like I seek the EIE's Fe, for sure, especially not the EIE-Ni's Fe and really don't like it... they tend to misunderstand how I feel, blowing things way out of proportion and EIE-Ni's emotional expression usually looks just well, not ugly as it's not objective, but i don't like the way it looks, and it's usually about what they want, not about pleasing the other person. I tend to see EIE-Ni as putting too many conditions on things they give you, not telling you about those conditions, then taking everything they gave you back unexpectedly or even intentionally causing unhappiness based upon what they want their emotional state to be. EIE-Ni ultimately treat everybody the way the EIE-Ni wants to get the emotional state the EIE-Ni wants, not because they care about the person. EIE-Fe are more fair and much less reliant on their emotional state when dealing with people.

According to her definition of Si, mine seems average; I have average awareness of what's going on in space (i'm often in my head due to mental illness), but am unhappy when I'm confused about what's going on in space.

According to her definition of Te, mine also seems weak but valued no more nor less than Fe.

According to her definition of Ne, mine seems weak (I'm very unaware of possibilities of objects and my own capabilities), although I value them because if I don't then I miss out.

I meet Grigory Reinin's description of LSI moderately well, except 1) I tell someone if I love them, 2) I don't drive, 3) I don't do well with objects and 4) I don't really fit most of his dichotomies; but I had the most inner peace when I was in college; it seems like according to him it would be because my relationship needs were met, and that was when I felt most stable, although not perfectly so. I don't see much of myself in Vera Stratiyevskaya's descriptions of ESI or LSI well other than some of what she says about LSI's sensing reactions, about what is pain and pleasure, and my need to educate the public. But since I'm going by information elements, that was what I needed to read before I jumped into socionics, I think my Fi is more valued and stronger than my Ti (Ti, for me, seems better in concepts and words and numbers, but not all that great and not at all well in what's physical e.g., machines) and Fe seems in service to it.

According to model A, My Fi seems to be more dependent on the situation than my Ti (I don't think that I have good Ti based on the situation, so that's kind of why I think 2d--which would be social norms and experience, but would exclude situation). My Fi seems valued but that's because I need a good emotional state. My 4 heart fix is weird for an LSI, but one of my key motivations is to have a good emotional state and to be surrounded by and create original beauty. My emotional states are usually quite strong, and I become more aware of them as I get older. I've never controlled by emotions well, although other people said I seem autistic or emotionally over-controlled. They think my affect varies on the situation, people think my affect is either flat or extreme. LSI-Ti have stronger affect than LSI-Se and LSI-Ti more internally emotional and don't control their emotions as well as LSI-Se do.

I don't know if this is a Fi or Ti thing, but it seems Ij to me--My communication style has been somewhat eccentric if that's the right word, informal is better; I've always been pretty informal and I really love informality and familiarity in communication much more than informality, although working women in company or military uniforms can make them look kind of sexy; my EIE-Fe dad hates it when someone seems familiar with him although he's okay with certain informalities and dislikes others.

Anyway, I'm either ESI or LSI or EIE.

I'd love for as many people as possible to vote, although I may not be able to decide. But I'm not going to do a video, mainly because I don't feel like taking the time to do a video. Also, for those who vote, explanations would be appreciated, but not really expected. I really don't even expect many votes.

[Tallmo]

Don't take Aushras definitions of IMs at face value. They are not very good imo. Actually, I would just forget them.

[qaz00]

IEI

[Disturbed]

Am I LSE-Si?

I've completely ruled out ESI. I've narrowed my type down to LSI-Ti and LSE-Si. The first three types I thought I could be were LSI, ESI, and LSE.

Subtypes really complicate things, because LSI-Ti aren't self-controlled and aren't very logical and detail-oriented and laser focused like LSI-Se and LSI-Ti tend to have pronounced role function even appearing to value it.

Thing is, there are logical bases that do poorly in technical careers like I would (or at least would do better in social/emotional careers that didn't rely on dealing with being logical, focused, and accurate), and I'm one of them... LSI-Ti more likely to be that way than LSI-Se.

I get bored often although I usually prefer what I'm familiar with; I don't like to control people. I don't like competing, but I don't think that's very correlated with type between LSE-Si and LSI-Ti.

If I were running for president, it would be more a show I'd be trying to make and to get my views across and get people thinking about other ways more than trying to win. Politics drive me mad and I try to get out of thinking about them because I'm so quixotic.

My IQ has been tested low several times which seems like it could be an LSI-Ti and an LSE-Si thing. I'm bad at analogies, which would seem to be more of a Te-valuing thing, but then LSI-Ti may also not be great at analysis.

If it weren't for subtypes, I could easily say I was LSE-Si, since I was often imprecise in my logic and speech, but I've observed LSI-Ti to be pretty neglectful of details and terrible with systems in stark contrast to LSI-Se. From what I've observed, Ti (precise definitions, precise in speech, thinking carefully before acting and speaking, size discrimination, causal reasoning, ability to come up with abstract arguments) really isn't working well for LSI-Ti.

I can't drive, I have terrible visual-motor coordination and slow visual processing speed... is that more of an LSI-Ti thing or an LSE-Si one?

Reinin's descriptions don't help much because he only described LSE-Te.

Going by Reinin Dichotomies that I'm sure of as defined on sociotype:
clearly carefree
clearly rational
clearly tactical
I don't seem to fit with the majority of any of the others

But again, that's not really useful because I've narrowed it down to LSE-Si or LSI-Ti and Reinin made the dichotomies based on the Te and Se subtypes.

I've never felt balanced-stable, but not really linear-assertive either. Receptive-Adaptive doesn't really fit all that well, but more than the other two.

I get accused by EIE-Ni, IEI-Fe, and LSI-Se of being too incoherent. Deltas don't like my behavior and I try to avoid them. I get along best with Gammas; I get along poorly with Deltas and LSI-Ti and EIE-Ni. Deltas get along poorly with me. I tend to get along most poorly with LSE and EIE and LSE tend to keep their distance from me. EIE-Ni love me and I'm always trying to escape from them. My least favorite type in the socion is probably EIE-Ni but everyone else in my family loves them and that's what my most of the LSXs in my mom's family married. I'm usually fine with EIE-Fe, but they're much more rare than EIE-Ni. My favorite types in the socion are LSI-Se and ILE-Ti, although ILE-Ti can piss me off sometimes. LSI-Se are so non-intrusive and so accurate; LSI-Ti are the opposite.

I fit Vera Stratiyevkaya's description of Delta quadra Complex of Clipped Wings better than her descriptions of other Quadras. I don't work, I hate work, I fear it like crazy and my moral code is idiosyncratic and I'd much prefer to manage that myself (I don't like interference from outside with that), I'm neither private nor secretive, and I'm not good with resources, so LSE is kind of out of the question according to her description. However, I do fit that she said that people strain LSEs. I only partly fit her questim model, but again that's based on LSE-Te. None of her LSI descriptions fit me other than sensing of sensations and the desire (but usually not really wanted to carry out) to inflict pain on people for causing me bodily sensations... but in her ISTj description she was describing the Sensory subtype (correlates with what I said above about the LSI-Ti not being as detail oriented, having as good of memory and observational ability and as logically strict as the Sensory subtype) and then in her intertype relations she was describing the Logical subtype more.

I try not to deal with any of Victor Gulenko's bullshit; it's tempting, but he's so imprecise and so error prone and he tries to re-define everything and so much of his things aren't very observable.

I feel like my Si based upon Augusta's description is weak. And I'm always having physical problems. I always know what the root causes are, but due to legal system which I can't work my way out of, not having my own bank account, being too sexually unattractive to those I'm physically attracted to, and inability to drive I can't eliminate those root causes.

Can anyone point me to a good questionaire? I tested LII-1 or 2Ne and then SEI-2Fe on sociotype.com and then esi fi. I fit their description of LSI and ESI pretty well (about 75% for LSI and about 65% for ESI and about 55% for LSE).

[Rusal]

@Disturbed, I'm going to agree with @qaz00 this once. Your cautious and self-doubting style of writing reminds me of how some IEI speak. But it's a very superficial evaluation on my part.

[Disturbed]

Here's a questionaire. Please read everything in this thread and offer your opinion as to whether my type is LSI-Ti or LSE-Si or ESI-Fi. I'm really desperate for it... I'm terrible with uncertainty. Anyway, Betas and Deltas would both be good for answering, but Betas answering would be especially appreciated. Explanations would be good... I like explanations and facts; facts are better though I feel like I need to be brought to reality sometimes.
What is beauty? What is love?Beauty is what looks good to me, it's subjective, what makes my body feel good. Beauty can also be something that gently stimulates my mind There are a lot of things that are beautiful. Some ideas are beautiful.

Love, to me, is what I experience when I see someone that made my body and mind feel good. Someone or something has to cause me to have good bodily sensations and has to win my heart and mind... A person (or an object) has to look and sound good to me and to show they have a lot of intelligence and that they're original and natural, then my sensory-emotional state is affected positively. It is correlated with beauty, for me anyway.
What are your most important values?I don't believe I have the first two all that much and i'd love to have the last (endurance) a lot more but:
~intellect--ability to quickly to determine cause and effect relationships, and to foresee effects, excellent spatial and object awareness, excellent coordination, excellent ability to create methods i think are strongly beneficial-to-me, excellent attention to visual details, excellent noticing of and long term memory for people, things, events, ideas, and procedures
~beauty/sensuality/sexuality--sounds, visuals, touches, smells, tastes i love.
~creativity/originality
~broad libertarianism, somewhat more left-libertarian than right (a certain amount of public property and maintaining high quality and keeping people i really love, not public property through eminent domain though). my views have been and will usually be more libertarian than my behavior.
~freedom
~forgiveness
~endurance (physical and mental)


Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?No, I don't. It's not directly observable and I don't want to be reminded that I could suffer after I die; I have negative feelings towards clergy, I see them as too controlling, too different in their moral views than me, not having any facts, any proof, too anti-individualistic. So I'm pretty anti-clerical. I really hate religion, no matter how beautiful I find some religious buildings.

Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?I hate real war, I think it's so unnecessary. I admire the troops for their bravery and because I think they're generally smart people, but I think they're doing the wrong thing. Power, to me, is control over someone else, especially their body.
What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why? I rarely have long conversations because I don't talk to people much and I don't go into depth much; I'm beginning to think I just can't talk intelligently. My interests include vid games, socionics, music, sexual matters, language, beauty, history, all sorts of information really.
Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body? Usually no, because I know (or can figure out) what I need and don't need and there is so much stuff in medicine that I think is totally unnecessary. Yes, I am focused on my body. And others' bodies as well.
What do you think of daily chores? I don't think much about them. If something needs to be done, I do it, but I prefer to put it off.
Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome. Too many to list really but mainly from when I was younger. The last film I saw was Cary's No Time to Die. I thought it was pretty average.

Some Recreational reading :

Last movie watched : No Time to Die.
Last book read : I don't remember.


What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why? I don't control my emotions really and I have terrible coordination. The tears just came out and the smiles just came out. Not sure that it was really the thing or a geniune emotional reaction, probably just my reflexes. Memories made me smile.
Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging? Certain video games are immersive really. I felt a sense of belonging in College, or well, I felt like i liked people... I always tried to be independent of fraternities.. I hated being considered one of the guys. I would've done just about anything to avoid that.
What have people seen as your strengths? What do you need help with? Someone has seen my memory as my strength. Someone else has seen my social skills as strength, but that was highly relative as it was an emotionally disturbed class and superlatives for that year; everyone else who mentioned it said mine were terrible and one of the things most lacking about me. I need help with transportation and psychological problems as I see them as problems.
Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it? I don't know what "stuck in a rut" means. If it means unable to move on, then yes I do. Cause: My limited mind; if I were smart I'd be where I want to be. My reaction to it: Frustration and anger.
What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?What I mentioned in the 2nd question of this questionaire.
How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?
Sometimes I'm a hopeless romantic, but I usually think me being in a romantic relationship would make things even worse for me. About sex--I've always been very open-minded about it, always had permissive attitudes about it. I've really looked down on people who have conservative attitudes towards sex. Qualities I want in a partner would be how I defined intelligence as defined above (in this questionaire) and well defined apple shaped figure, flat buttocks that pants ride up in sexily, anus directly in between legs, strong, lean, slim legs, with potential for muscularity.
If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why? Oh, i don't want to ever raise a child... too much stress. Maybe have kids, but make sure they're adopted or put in an orphanage right after they're born. Having biological kids with someone you love, with someone you need physically and emotionally and intellectually is a better act of union with that person than marriage for me anyway.
A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?Not sure. Depends if what I believe is based on facts or affects my well-being.
Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one. Really, kind of an observer of society and commenter on it and an outcast; wanting to stand away from it really and not be pushed into it. I see people as a whole as making terrible decisions, somewhat close-minded, somewhat uninformed, excessively practical (and too willing or even desiring to force what they think is practical on everyone else), and rather frustrating and irritating, but still forgivable and worthy of life. I also see people as a whole as more strong than weak (about 65/35) and having sufficient strength and structures to be able to do most of what they want if they put the effort in. I think of people as making bad decisions, but it's mostly or totally their fault and they could've made smarter decisions... but they didn't. I see myself as no better than anyone else when comes to that, really.
.
How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them? Based upon their appearance, what physical sensations they give me, sometimes interests. Sometimes they choose me. I usually am willing to talk to anyone that comes up to me, unless I'm feeling an extreme sense of urgency... which I often am. I behave more kindly to them than to my parents and family members. I generally do what my friends ask for.
How do you behave around strangers?I don't really think of people as strangers. People I'm meeting for the first time--it depends on my mood, their appearance, how they affect my body, what I think they want (I prefer they ask of course, I'm not good at figuring out what people want), what I want, what ideas I have for conversation, how they're communicating, etc. I'm pretty casual depending on whether they're dominating the conversation or if I can think of anything to say) around people I'm meeting for the first time (just like I'm casual around people I've spent a lot of time with before), I usually speak my heart and mind, although I often speak concretely. Sometimes, I'm really friendly to people I'm meeting for the first time. I really don't like formality. I usually just pick up with people as if I had no interaction with them before, I get straight to what's on my mind really--as quickly as my poorly mind-body parts coordinated (including my tongue and vocal cords) ass can.

[Disturbed]

Any more answers would be appreciated.

IEI sounds convincing, but neither of my parents are IEI.

But based on behaviors and some things I said when I was younger (particularly having that typical LSI harsh view on systems and precisions and being critical towards people on those things... more on that below), LSI-Ti, LSE-Si, and IEI all fit. Again, subtypes complicate the fuck out of things. Any more responses, especially from Beta STs would be welcome.

I bitched to no end when the grading system was changed from a percentage one to a letter grade one, because the letter grades were less precise. And I refused to put in effort on at least one school test because of the grading system. I've always been quite picky about technical things.

But then I have the inner emotional instability and inner aggression that I've read Beta NFs are supposed to have and I guess LSEs as dynamics could have it as well. And I've frequently made decisions based upon emotions and sympathy... LSI-Se don't do that as much as LSI-Ti, but LSI-Ti can do that frequently. However, I have tried not to make decisions based upon emotions, but I can't deductively reason so I make decisions based upon my emotions more. I make decisions based upon facts and feelings though. I have tried to create logical systems based upon observations.

Again, LSI-Ti is less hierarchical in their thinking and in their objectives than LSI-Se and I don't like hierarchy, in fact when i was younger I hated it and tried to go against it. And LSE-Si SEEM to live in their heads and seem slightly more abstract in their thinking and cautious than LSE-Te.

There have been some times when I've been dispassionate or done something without emotion as well, but I've done things far more often with more passion than with no passion. Being sx/sp in the enneagram describes that well... I love gentle intensity and good chemistry between me and something else or someone else sometimes, I seek it, but can never find it and due to the sp secondary instinct, I sometimes burn out. But as sx-doms are said to do, I seek out good intensity, good chemistry with certain people and things... but I often feel like what I call the "gently intense fire" has died down or that there isn't enough of it. There is often a fire burning in me, it was almost never like a 3-based desire to achieve, to win. I wanted to do well on things when I was younger, but I still had to put my emotional state and my friendships ahead of that... I always did.

[Disturbed]

Anyway, Te seems to be one of my weakest functions... I'm not good at assessing ability to work, efficiency, and I'm only slightly above average with facts (facts isn't included in the definition of Te in Dual Nature of Man).

If Te is described as pragmatism, well, I'm pretty much anything but pragmatic and I make decisions based upon what makes me happy, what's good for my emotional state. I'm more idealistic, usually have been. But i feel hyper in touch with reality sometimes. LSE are actually idealistic and not really in touch with reality compared to any other type, (other types are at least as in touch with reality, actually even more so due to the LSE-Si's strong preferences for certain things and people over others), so I still can't decide between LSE, IEI, and LSI-Ti for me. Will more people please help me?

Although IEI-Ni is one of the types I enjoy most, I don't think I'm one of them, I feel very, very different from the ones I knew... some Fe subs were kind of similar to me but that could be an LSE thing as well.

I usually get along well with SLE-Ti and they were the type of women who gave me the most attention and wanted to be with me the most. Some SLE-Ti did get angry with me for my attempts at analysis and for my opinions (but that's due to them having their own opinions and thinking people who have different opinions are stupid, rather than the opinion themselves... I realize that people who support the patent system can be very smart, no matter how much I hate it), and some SLE-Ti women really hated me while most really, really loved me. EIE-Ni seemed the most attracted to me of all the types, but it was where they wouldn't let me go and did what they wanted to me. EIE-Ni have a tendency to abuse people and demand more from them the more they love them, no matter how old the EIE-Ni is... they seem to always try to break through my sometimes cold exterior (it's good that they do sometimes)... my maternal grandfather kept trying to do that to my maternal grandmother until she had no choice but to submit.

So anyway, it's down to IEI, LSE, and LSI-Ti for me. More replies and explanations about my type would make me happier and clear up a lot of my confusion. I hate being confused, it makes me happy when things are clear.

[Disturbed]

Anyway, I think of things more in terms of my emotional reaction to them. I'm strongly emotionally effected by just about everything, but at the same time, I want it to make sense.

If I had to choose though, between doing what I liked and what was beneficial to me and those I care about, versus Ti technical things, I'd choose going by emotions every time.

Again, I think my Ti is weak, I don't see it as very strong, I don't see myself as very smart or good at analysis, especially not with objects. But many LSI-Ti are not good at analysis nor good with objects. I don't clearly operate facts. However, I know what I love and hate, quite clearly. I do crave attention which seems Fe-dual seeking, but anyways...

I've always been aware of my feelings and I feel them so intensely at times that they take over my body.

My Te is very weak; I need more help with that than with Fe; I care more about my own feelings and my own well-being more than the feelings of others.

I've always been pretty judgmental, having intense feelings of like and dislike towards people and situations and things; I've never felt good at impersonal analysis, when I do it, it's often with anger or for fun. But again, I know of some LSI-Ti who are judgmental and not good at analysis.

I'm not good with tools, but then LSI-Ti are often not good with tools.

It seems like I would use my like and dislike and go by my emotional state to get through life more than I would use Ti analysis, although analyzing things can be fun, as I'm curious about just about everything.

Again, 2 subtype theory combined with what I've observed messes with things... if I were going by Aushra Augusta's descriptions of the functions in the dual nature of man (or those on sociotype.com), I would no doubt say I'm an ESI. But if you look at so many LSI-Ti who were moralistic and passionate and terrible with technologies, then that screws with things. Unlike LSI-Ti, I'm somewhat cautious in relationships, or rather, I have a better sense of what will work for me ahead of time. But I consider myself to be more of the social club than a pragmatist, even though one reason I hate American foreign policy is because it seems so impractical and economically disadvantageous to middle class americans and mainly gives to the elite and is just outright unfair and relationships can improve... no need to choose war all the time--there's the other side, diplomacy. Diplomacy existed for good reasons.

[Vis]

LSI, from how serious you are and your ability to think yourself into a corner. Be careful with depression. Build yourself a solid social support network. Integrate yourself into the larger society one step at a time. Learn Fe (watch Jordan Peterson but don't mix with any extreme cult followers/political views).

Anyways I'm not staying in this thread (my behavior is not an example of good Fe), to avoid the benefactor/beneficiary dynamics. Good luck!

[Disturbed]

I'm beginning to wonder if I'm SLI. So it's now between LSI-Ti, LSE, and SLI.

Leaning between SLI and LSI.

What type has a harder time deciding what type they are?

Anyway, Socionics is addictive, but confusing. I'd kind of like to just drop it, but I can't.

[Disturbed]

As much as I didn't want to be SLI or Delta, it's what I'm beginning to think I am. Oh well.

LSI-Ti or SLI.

[Disturbed]

As per the dichotomies listed on sociotype.com, introversion, sensing, and logical each describe me more about 65%. Irrational doesn’t describe me at all. But my logic seems more objective/fact based and my sensing partly subjective. Merry and serious are each about 50% accurate for me, but then merry describes me better, because reinin said something like serious is strengthened by thinking. Aggressor and caregiver both describe me, but in relationships it is more about what I want and the way I have shown off my sexuality and approached females I wanted to spend time with is described better by aggressor.

I am not sure if I am sli or an lsi. Lse, Esi, and lsi were the first three types I considered for myself, going by meged and sociotype.com descriptions and seeming to put a lot of emphasis on fi and ti throughout my life but not feeling successful with either like I wanted to with ti. But I don’t know how accurate the power of others observations and memory are and there is so much contradiction between peoples’ observations that descriptions aren’t a good way to type.

the two types I get along with best are lsi se and esi se. I don’t get along with lse or with lsi ti. I think learning how to work socially would be more useful to me than learning practical things like delta sts are supposed to do. I value my social life and care what people think about me for the sake of me being loved or to at least intrigue people more than I would think an sli would.

I seem close to equally lsi and sli based on valued dichotomies… if it weren’t for subtypes, if sli si were the only sli type, then I would say I was an LSI. But i can’t be sure of that.

[Ocean Man]

As per the dichotomies listed on sociotype.com, introversion, sensing, and logical each describe me more about 65%. Irrational doesn’t describe me at all. But my logic seems more objective/fact based and my sensing partly subjective. Merry and serious are each about 50% accurate for me, but then merry describes me better, because reinin said something like serious is strengthened by thinking. Aggressor and caregiver both describe me, but in relationships it is more about what I want and the way I have shown off my sexuality and approached females I wanted to spend time with is described better by aggressor.

I am not sure if I am sli or an lsi. Lse, Esi, and lsi were the first three types I considered for myself, going by meged and sociotype.com descriptions and seeming to put a lot of emphasis on fi and ti throughout my life but not feeling successful with either like I wanted to with ti. But I don’t know how accurate the power of others observations and memory are and there is so much contradiction between peoples’ observations that descriptions aren’t a good way to type.

the two types I get along with best are lsi se and esi se. I don’t get along with lse or with lsi ti. I think learning how to work socially would be more useful to me than learning practical things like delta sts are supposed to do. I value my social life and care what people think about me for the sake of me being loved or to at least intrigue people more than I would think an sli would.

I seem close to equally lsi and sli based on valued dichotomies… if it weren’t for subtypes, if sli si were the only sli type, then I would say I was an LSI. But i can’t be sure of that.

LSI-H

[Disturbed]

I am an lsi ti… a very fucked up one but one none the less and proud to be one. Nobody in my family visually or auditory identifies much like any esi or sli that I know of, but I saw two videos of Liz Hurley, and she and Hillary Clinton reminded me of my mom, which was weird, because my mom hated the Austin powers movies. My mom wasn’t an lse because she was never very career or super success oriented nor caring about business (in fact she is often anti business in her views) and her mother and sister were the same way. If my mom wasn’t so easily offended and if her se- creative sister hadn’t been so animated I would’ve come to the conclusion that I was an lsi much earlier.

lsi ti are pretty emotional and lsi se are also often emotional. Lsi are pretty emotional, despite the stereotype of them being unemotional.

[Disturbed]

My mom kind of V.I.s and A.I.s like David Hasselhoff and Sally Field, both of them are ESI-Fi and my mom doesn't V.I. all that much like Liz Hurley and Hillary Clinton. And I'm more Fi (whether it's defined as relations or like/dislike) valuing than Ti valuing, especially Beta Ti... and the LSI-Ti's hierarchical shit I definitely don't identify with. And my mom's relations with SLE are pretty bad, she dislikes most of them, although she likes some of them. And I tend to dualize with LIE while I don't feel that sense of duality at all with EIE... in fact, it's more like a mirage relationship if the EIE will allow it to be, if they don't start a conflict first. I totally went through went life by what I loved and hated and my opinions of people as individuals are too Fi. I fit Grigory Reinin's ESI description much better than his LSI one. I don't fit Meged and Ocharev's LSI-Ti description AT ALL except for maybe being polite and sometimes liking to talk to people. Their ESI-Fi one doesn't fit me much either, but I fit it more than the LSI-Ti one. And @Ocean Man was identifying everyone as LSI. And 2 other users identified me as ESI. And a Ti valuing type would've come to the consistent conclusion that they were LSI-Ti much more quickly.

I care more about interpersonal relations and friendship than logic. I don't feel like I have the strongest Ti in the socion; my Fi is much stronger and more valued than would be expected for LSI-Ti.

So I'm Fi/Te valuing like I originally thought I was (when I first read sociotype.com, I thought ESI, LSI, or LSE, but I met Fi as described under ESI much better than I met Ti as described under LSI) and like I saw the differences between me and my EIE-Fe father.

So I'm an ESI-Fi.

[Disturbed]

I'm beginning to think I am an LSE, based on visual identification of people on my direct maternal line and M. Ahmedinajahd and Arthur Conan Doyle and Meged's description; I do however, fit Meged's description of ESI-Fi better and the Sociotype.com descriptions of LSI and ESI very well and LSE poorly and Vera Stratiyevskaya's description of Delta Complex of Clipped Wings. Another reason I'm thinking that I'm LSE is because I guess LSE-Te would be terrible at self-typing. But on MBTI and socionics tests, I almost always type as an Introvert and about half of the time an ethical (MBTI feeling) type; I usually type as MBTI IXTX but I got ENTP, ISFP, and ISFJ once each. It's super confusing for me. I'm wondering if LSE-Te have trouble self-typing. But LSE doesn't fit all that well, because I'm really not self-motivated, not willing to take opportunities, and can't organize people and her description of LSE doesn't fit and I don't do well with EII-Fi either.

LSE was my original typing of myself, simply because, even though I didn't think the sociotype.com description of it fit while thinking its ESI and LSI description did fit, I thought I was a huge asshole and thought there was more than enough correlation between Socionics LSE and the MBTI ESTJ being "the asshole type".

But my mom's 2 brothers who weren't her EIE-Ni brother and who did have the same type didn't V.I. as ESI at all.

I'm still thinking that I'm LSI-Ti or ESI-Fi, but I can't rule out LSE due to V.I.

I'm so worried about not being Se creative, because Se creative types are so feminine, if I'm not Se creative, then I'll feel more masculine. I'm also so worried about being Delta. Deltas are good people, but eh, I don't want to be one, I'd rather be Se valuing or ILE-Ti even though I know I'm not ILE-Ti.

[Disturbed]

Just can't figure out my type. I can with absolutely certainty rule out being any Alpha, any irrational, LIE, and EII, but that's it. I'm just too different from other LSI to feel like one, to think I'm one.

The biggest reason I don't see LSI for myself, is because I'm too uncontrolled, I don't feel like I have much self-control, like where my own thought processes control everything I do. I've had very little awareness of my own mental boundaries, if i had any at all. I feel too much need for mental self-control and benefit. If I were LSI, i'd think it would already be there and that I'd be more independent in getting benefits for myself. I wish I were those feminine ways.

I don't do what I want much. And even though I don't like doing it, I take too much emotionally--I'd think LSI wouldn't to the degree I do.

I value Se done reasonably and especially elegantly by others, but I don't see myself as strong in it. I see my strongest function as Fi and what I like or love and my own harmony as what to go with to get by in life. A lot of people have seen me as Thinking-base or at least a logical type, but I don't think I am for long. I also don't feel that valuing of Fe, I'd rather not deal with the external atmosphere much, even though sometimes I enjoy it, it's not something I want to do, I want to always be emotionally independent or at least do things for the people I love that they could always love and what I think is right, fair, just, whatever. But my main focus has been my own attitudes towards a person, thing, event, whatever.

[Riven]

Just can't figure out my type. I can with absolutely certainty rule out being any Alpha, any irrational, LIE, and EII, but that's it. I'm just too different from other LSI to feel like one, to think I'm one.

The biggest reason I don't see LSI for myself, is because I'm too uncontrolled, I don't feel like I have much self-control, like where my own thought processes control everything I do. I've had very little awareness of my own mental boundaries, if i had any at all. I feel too much need for mental self-control and benefit. If I were LSI, i'd think it would already be there and that I'd be more independent in getting benefits for myself. I wish I were those feminine ways.

I don't do what I want much. And even though I don't like doing it, I take too much emotionally--I'd think LSI wouldn't to the degree I do.

I value Se done reasonably and especially elegantly by others, but I don't see myself as strong in it. I see my strongest function as Fi and what I like or love and my own harmony as what to go with to get by in life. A lot of people have seen me as Thinking-base or at least a logical type, but I don't think I am for long. I also don't feel that valuing of Fe, I'd rather not deal with the external atmosphere much, even though sometimes I enjoy it, it's not something I want to do, I want to always be emotionally independent or at least do things for the people I love that they could always love and what I think is right, fair, just, whatever. But my main focus has been my own attitudes towards a person, thing, event, whatever.

I'm thinking Ti>Fi due to how you come up with reasons for being one type over another. You know the theory, but in a sense you play around with it and draw your conclusions from the way you shaped it on your own mind. Tricky to explain this. Though I haven't had much touch with posts from you to really have a strong impression.

Out of curiosity, why Se creative for you?

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Take a Big Five test maybe, like: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/personality-quiz/

it might give you insight, even though it's not Socionics.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

I suspect you're most likely irrational and probably an introvert, but I don't know what your type is in a way consistent with Model A. I think something like SLI>ILI>SEI might be the closest fit.

[Metamorph]

I suspect you're most likely irrational and probably an introvert, but I don't know what your type is in a way consistent with Model A. I think something like SLI>ILI>SEI might be the closest fit.

What happened to the idea of socionics being fake?

[Socionics Is A Cult]

What happened to the idea of socionics being fake?

I'd prefer it if people stuck to the Big Five. But my observation is consistent with both I think: I don't think he is extroverted (he's too in his head), and probably unlikely to be rational for the same reason (as well as not being especially practical).

[Fractals]

@Disturbed

Wow, okay. So when you posted in my highly sensitive ILI thread, it actually felt like I was talking to my identical. I had a really hard time with finding my own type too, a lot of people thought I was SEI, but now I think that Gulenko guy is correct since I YouTubed "INTJ Lair", and maybe you can try watching some of her videos, because relating to what she says made me think Gulenko is correct about my type. Just try it, even though I could be wrong. You don't drive a car, and I hate driving a car. Some of the things you wrote above I relate to, so what makes you think you can't be ILI? I had thought that type was too rare, too smart to be me because I had done poorly in school. I'm more right brained, as I'm more into the arts and philosophy. If you say your Se is not that high, I doubt you can be ESI. Why not try ILI and try watching those vids, because I think that INTJ Lair girl expresses herself pretty well and honestly, so maybe you can relate to Ni. I didn't even know I had intuition, but since knowing I'm this type and about Ni more, I feel more intuitive now which is weird, and I don't want to trust it, but then not trusting that I have intuition is cautionary intuition anyway. Anyway, couldn't hurt to try out this type.

[Disturbed]

@Riven Thanks. I'm not sure that I am Se-creative, I don't really feel like I am partly because I would think a static type would have better control over their Se, I don't feel like I use it reasonably as a creative function; I initially thought I was a sensing type partly because I've always been so focused on appearance and the way things, people sound, but I don't really feel like I have strong Se as most would describe it, I'm not great with objects or organizing people--then again a lot of LSI even some Se subtype are not great with objects while many Beta NFs are. I value it in others, but it's not strong in me, or at least not above the average. At the same time, i usually felt like I had enough strength in myself to not need to show it unless it was necessary for a short time for something I wanted or just playing around. I really want to always avoid myself having power over people and people having power over me unless they look really elegant, sexy doing so. Just like I don't like to be controlled, I don't like to control others although I will certainly tell them what I think is wrong and what is right and if I were president I would be so to reduce centralization of power with people getting what they want, but it's a job I really don't want; I think too many bad decisions are made by the American government where it distrusts people to make their own decisions... I don't like that it does that.

@SubteighThanks, but I've already taken five factor model tests. The extraversion facets vary (going from maybe 14th percentile to 65th), as do most of the Agreeableness ones (except sympathy/tender-mindedness is low because I don't want to deal with problems like homelessness people face, and it can't be dealt with with extremes and there are already things that exist and even though I want people to do well, it's something more mental for me than emotional... if ever I do want, say, more welfare, I don't like taking it, it's within reason, preferred to be based on already existing systems, due to some objective reason like more security/stability, but since like 2006 I've thought decentralization of political power is secure enough and best of all systems that have been proposed for each individual's economic well-being, their health), but I know I'm somewhere above the 10th percentile and below the 45th percentile in Openness and above the 90th percentile in neuroticism, unless I were in a really unusually good mood and somehow forgot my bad moods.

Also, some extraverted types can also be in their heads while some introverts can be out of their heads and highly focused on and engaging the real world. Neither of my biological parents lived in their heads anywhere near as much as I usually have in mine and my dad is an EIE-Fe and I'm not an EIE-Fe. My mother's father was an EIE-Ni (he wasn't domineering or angry, he was usually a kind of crazy really happy and sometimes sad person), but my Fe-sub dad lived in his head more than my Ni subtype grandfather lived in his head. I didn't like the emotional atmospheres either created though.

[Distance]

What is your hidden agenda?

I think you are introverted, so do you have Ni Ti Fi Si ?

Or find your PoLR.

[Fractals]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2zQHwM05JY

[thistle]

I'm not sure how this observation translates to the functions, but your writing reads to me as a very fluid train of thought like you are sorting through options and ruling them out.
Would you describe your speaking voice as similar to how you write?

The sharing of your thought process part looks like Ti to me. I can do something like this in writing, but only for a sentence or two because it takes a lot of concentration.

[Disturbed]

@WhatYeahOK My hidden agenda does seem to be Ni, especially if it's to believe, to have constant faith in a good system, the future, something for the future. I'm not great with Ni; I always want to believe something like in some system I could work really well with, that would give me satisfaction, and that just about everybody would be satisfied with the results, but I always feel like I have trouble doing so and that those systems and people I care about won't always be there for me. It's mainly a select few individuals I really believe in and I worry about betraying them and feel like if I did, then I would deserve to feel guilt and shame for betrayal. I highly value the ability in myself to be loyal to those I really care about, when I'm not or feel like I'm not, I feel bad. I've always thought I had Ne-PoLR (where I think about all that could go wrong and also don't take into account multiple possibilities; at the same time I need help with it, an Ne base wouldn't necessarily destroy me with Ne), unless I was manic it's seemed like a problem. Thank you. Sorry.

@thistle My speaking voice is sometimes that fluid, it depends on the drugs and I have really bad executive functioning; I'm not all that good when being put on the spot, like when being asked a question. I've been told that I'm very articulate, am a good speaker, etc., but I know I'm far from perfect. And a lot of Fe egos speak very fluidly. How good of a speaker someone is isn't really a good way to find out their type. Thank you. Sorry.

[Distance]

@WhatYeahOK My hidden agenda does seem to be Ni, especially if it's to believe, to have constant faith in a good system, the future, something for the future. I'm not great with Ni; I always want to believe something like in some system I could work really well with, that would give me satisfaction, and that just about everybody would be satisfied with the results, but I always feel like I have trouble doing so and that those systems and people I care about won't always be there for me. It's mainly a select few individuals I really believe in and I worry about betraying them and feel like if I did, then I would deserve to feel guilt and shame for betrayal. I highly value the ability in myself to be loyal to those I really care about, when I'm not or feel like I'm not, I feel bad. I've always thought I had Ne-PoLR (where I think about all that could go wrong and also don't take into account multiple possibilities; at the same time I need help with it, an Ne base wouldn't necessarily destroy me with Ne), unless I'm manic it's seemed like a problem. Thank you. Sorry.

In your questionnaire in red, i saw Ne problems where you said uncertainty is a sore spot.

Which ego appeals to you between the 2?

My dad is LSI, and my mother is EIE. Do you like EIE? I think an Fi Dom wouldn't seek it at all. Watch videos of ENFjs and see if you are attracted to them.

I get the impression of Ti, not Fi. Fi talks about values and closeness to things, and has a big polarity with good/ bad right wrong dichotomies.

If Fi Dom you should be keying in on what people like and dislike and be interested in those things.

[thistle]

@WhatYeahOK My hidden agenda does seem to be Ni, especially if it's to believe, to have constant faith in a good system, the future, something for the future. I'm not great with Ni; I always want to believe something like in some system I could work really well with, that would give me satisfaction, and that just about everybody would be satisfied with the results, but I always feel like I have trouble doing so and that those systems and people I care about won't always be there for me. It's mainly a select few individuals I really believe in and I worry about betraying them and feel like if I did, then I would deserve to feel guilt and shame for betrayal. I highly value the ability in myself to be loyal to those I really care about, when I'm not or feel like I'm not, I feel bad. I've always thought I had Ne-PoLR (where I think about all that could go wrong and also don't take into account multiple possibilities; at the same time I need help with it, an Ne base wouldn't necessarily destroy me with Ne), unless I was manic it's seemed like a problem. Thank you. Sorry.

@thistle My speaking voice is sometimes that fluid, it depends on the drugs and I have really bad executive functioning; I'm not all that good when being put on the spot, like when being asked a question. I've been told that I'm very articulate, am a good speaker, etc., but I know I'm far from perfect. And a lot of Fe egos speak very fluidly. How good of a speaker someone is isn't really a good way to find out their type. Thank you. Sorry.

That's true about Fe egos, they tend to stand out to me in Ted Talks or similar because they're good at structuring their speech while still sounding conversational.
You shift quite quickly from one consideration to the next in your writing. If you are able speak that way sometimes, and unprepared, it might point toward you being a logical type...you just seem very mentally "organised"/categorical.

My own speech is pretty broken up/disjoined - except for when I'm recalling a scenario/memory, which is when my speaking becomes more fluid. It makes me wonder if the ability to speak confidently on the spot has some connection to a person's strong cognitive functions.

[Disturbed]

@WhatYeahOK That's the thing, I find EIE's Fe more irritating than soothing, calming, exciting in a good way whatever and I am attuned to what other people like/dislike sometimes (and I focus on/value that more than emotional atmosphere) and I do sometimes see things in good and bad, but especially what I like and don't like. I can take EIE in doses, but I generally find Fe (especially from EIE) annoying and counter-productive (especially from the Ni subtype). I've liked some EIE, but never been a big fan of EIE; I usually (at least 70% of the time) preferred the company of logical types (mainly ILE-Ti, LSI-Se, SLE-Ti, LIE-Ni, and SLI, especially LSI-Se and SLE-Ti) to ethical types (except I really like ESI-Se and IEE sometimes).

FWIW, I've been diagnosed with autism, so even if I'm logical, the autism, sensory issues could nullify/alter my natural TIM preferences from liking Fe to preferring only logic, facts, ideas, efficiency, effectiveness, and good bodily sensations (Si) and a quiet sense of closure of the psychological distance. Logical women are generally more beautiful than ethical women and when I'm attracted to someone, it's their appearance, voice and that I can generally see through their character, intellect, and their intellect through not only how they look, but what work they do, the quality and quantity of it, especially quality. I'm generally repelled by too much Fe to be honest.

[Distance]

@WhatYeahOK That's the thing, I find EIE's Fe more irritating than soothing, calming, exciting in a good way whatever and I am attuned to what other people like/dislike sometimes (and I focus on/value that more than emotional atmosphere) and I do sometimes see things in good and bad, but especially what I like and don't like. I can take EIE in doses, but I generally find Fe (especially from EIE) annoying and counter-productive (especially from the Ni subtype). I've liked some EIE, but never been a big fan of EIE; I generally always preferred the company of logical types (mainly ILE-Ti, LSI-Se, SLE-Ti, LIE-Ni, and SLI, especially LSI-Se and SLE-Ti) to ethical types (except I really like ESI-Se).

Here's the thing with me: I find SEI types in Fe, in a polarity. I sense we wouldn't get along. They remember well, and are fussy with Fe protocol rules, and if things don't line up to that, it is unacceptable. In MBTI terms a big J, ISFJ. Non chill.

This might work below:



Remember its MBTI, so substitute the introverted types.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

@Riven Thanks. I'm not sure that I am Se-creative, I don't really feel like I am partly because I would think a static type would have better control over their Se, I don't feel like I use it reasonably as a creative function; I initially thought I was a sensing type partly because I've always been so focused on appearance and the way things, people sound, but I don't really feel like I have strong Se as most would describe it, I'm not great with objects or organizing people--then again a lot of LSI even some Se subtype are not great with objects while many Beta NFs are. I value it in others, but it's not strong in me, or at least not above the average. At the same time, i usually felt like I had enough strength in myself to not need to show it unless it was necessary for a short time for something I wanted or just playing around. I really want to always avoid myself having power over people and people having power over me unless they look really elegant, sexy doing so. Just like I don't like to be controlled, I don't like to control others although I will certainly tell them what I think is wrong and what is right and if I were president I would be so to reduce centralization of power with people getting what they want, but it's a job I really don't want; I think too many bad decisions are made by the American government where it distrusts people to make their own decisions... I don't like that it does that.

@SubteighThanks, but I've already taken five factor model tests. The extraversion facets vary (going from maybe 14th percentile to 65th), as do most of the Agreeableness ones (except sympathy/tender-mindedness is low because I don't want to deal with problems like homelessness people face, and it can't be dealt with with extremes and there are already things that exist and even though I want people to do well, it's something more mental for me than emotional... if ever I do want, say, more welfare, I don't like taking it, it's within reason, preferred to be based on already existing systems, due to some objective reason like more security/stability, but since like 2006 I've thought decentralization of political power is secure enough and best of all systems that have been proposed for each individual's economic well-being, their health), but I know I'm somewhere above the 10th percentile and below the 45th percentile in Openness and above the 90th percentile in neuroticism, unless I were in a really unusually good mood and somehow forgot my bad moods.

Also, some extraverted types can also be in their heads while some introverts can be out of their heads and highly focused on and engaging the real world. Neither of my biological parents lived in their heads anywhere near as much as I usually have in mine and my dad is an EIE-Fe and I'm not an EIE-Fe. My mother's father was an EIE-Ni (he wasn't domineering or angry, he was usually a kind of crazy really happy and sometimes sad person), but my Fe-sub dad lived in his head more than my Ni subtype grandfather lived in his head. I didn't like the emotional atmospheres either created though.

I don't think trying to find out your type for an extended period will be helpful to you. I think if you want to know your personality, then it's difficult to beat the Big Five. And if you want to change your personality (like I'd liked to do myself), then you should focus on doing that.

But if you really want my "opinion" into your Socionics type, then take my Socionics if you have not already done so: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...read.php/54099

[Fractals]

@Disturbed You're introverted but your extroverted functions come out strong, at least in writing. The way you write sounds very Fi and you seem Fe Polr. btw, i wrote you something above but you keep ignoring it.

[Fractals]

ILI @Disturbed

[BrainlessSquid]

I'm pretty confident you're LSI. If you don't relate to other LSI, maybe they're not LSI.
Also it can happen that you don't relate to some identicals due to the nature of crystallization of the functions, and to some extend the unique level of development and differentiation of the 4 functions.
I've come to realize that types does not directly mean same cognition or behavior. Of course, some identicals have pretty similar ones, but it is not a must.
Have you tried relationships with all temperaments yet? You really need to know a lot of people in order to see what makes you unique.

[Disturbed]

About 2/3 of all the people on this forum who have commented on my type have said that I am a logical type, and I've narrowed it down to LSI-ti or EIE-Ni.

There has been way too much information, from my memories, and some things I did (particularly asking people "we're best friends, right?"), worded differently from that that made me seem even less LSI-Ti, to rule out EIE-Ni. I really didn't want to be EIE-Ni, but it's either that or LSI-Ti. But neither Ti nor Fe works well for me. Those functions both seem inert in me. I have average foresight, but EIE-Ni actually have pretty average foresight. EIE-Ni also have extremely weak Ne, and I have extremely weak Ne... I know that by theory and according to what Gulenko said they should have the strongest Ne in the socion, but I've observed them to have EXTREMELY WEAK Ne, constantly blocking out opportunities, thinking there is no way out, or only one way to do something... they're super quick to make judgments and to say you can't do that, you wouldn't have done that, "there's no way in hell", "i don't trust", "i didn't think of that", "there are too many consequences if i don't obey the rules" "college is an excellent indicator of innate ability, so if they have a college degree they're definitely smart", this person is retarded, this person is smart i can tell by their vocabulary [even though the EIE-Ni didn't take math and spatial abilities into account], etc., etc.

I don't like to pressure people and I hate being pressured myself.

I also don't like going by theory, I go by memories, what I've observed. I trust my experience/memory, what's observable. If my observations, real world experience doesn't match theory, words, if I can't completely reconcile the two, then, well, my mind feels like it's gone off the rails... that's what socionics has done to me, but I can't get out of it.

I'm a Beta rational, yet my base function doesn't work for me. In fact, none of my functions work for me, although my Fi and Te come closest to working for me, even though by theory they're not valued. I don't feel very aware of my Ti, but a lot of LSI-Ti and EIE-Ni wouldn't. Sometimes I just accept or reject information so quickly that I seem like the classical definition of an intuitive person and especially an EIE-Ni.

[Distance]

See if this fits you. It's MBTI ISTP and notice his weakness with Ne and Fe in his own words.

[Disturbed]

I think I'm an EIE; but I value Fi more than Fe and my Fi is much stronger. I just don't see myself as a logical type, I have never felt very logical for long, especially when I was a kid. I just wish I knew my type for certain.

I would just conclude that I'm ESI-Fi based on valued and strong Fi, but me and my mom don't V.I. or A.I. as such... ESI-Fi exude strong visible physical energy, they just look strong, I don't and my mom doesn't and they all have much more pleasant, smoother voices while me and my mom don't. Se as a creative function is so feminine, so smooth, so beautiful, and me and my mom don't look, sound, or act like that.

EIE-Ni often do look, sound, and act more masculine, older/mature/serious than their LSI duals... LSI-Se actually tend to look, sound, and act quite feminine, young while EIE-Ni often act old and serious.