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Childhood exposure quadra
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Last edited by persimmonism; 07-22-2021 at 10:52 PM.
I'm esi and my parents were beta introverts. Maybe I'm a little more receptive to beta fe? I do like it, but maybe in a sort of shallow way - it's cute xo, lol. I won't try to give the pros and cons without experiencing any alternatives, though. I haven't noticed anything about where I live, but moreso clumps in areas joined by choice like workplaces.
Definitely living in opposing quadras lol
Pros; Straight-forward, "normal"
Cons; not "being seen," being stuck in the Matrix, coldness, apathy, attitude: "doing their own thing", disconnection from others + society, feelings of not contributing towards society
Last edited by Computer Loser; 12-27-2020 at 12:00 AM.
Where I live: gamma/beta are the most common, then alpha, and then delta.
Born to opposing quadra parents.
Some people have been to hell. I was born there. Lol
I am IEI, mother is ESE, older sister is ESE, and father is LSE.
As you can see, I am sort of an ugly duckling. I do not relate to these people very well for a multitude of reasons even beyond socionics, though.
Having such a lack of Se influence in my life has led me to a damningly high amount of inertia. They don't inspire me to action and they often ignore me almost out of principle. When trying to get me moving it feels like they just grab me and shake me while begging/threatening me to just do something, but I need someone who can energize me by proxy. Fuck, I am just sort of drowning in this family. It feels like if I don't get an Se fix in life I am just going to die off. Help meeeeee, lol.
I live in the south Texas countryside and I think the predominant quadras here are Alpha, and Delta even more so. At least, my family has forged a sort of Si bubble around them. They even look at Ne endeavors with disdain sometimes. I find this sort of Si arrogance pettish, but that isn't their concern. (Yes, I know not all Si types are like this, but my family definitely is.)
I think Gamma is least prevalent here, while Beta has a decent foothold although not remarkably so.
IR of parrents should give common effects. As people are close, tried to be copied - effects should be significant before teenager age, at least.
I'd say it was quite peripheral/judious. Central/Decisive ones were seen as off beat, lol.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
This makes sense. When I was young I definitely was more enmeshed with my family's take on things, but their influence always felt alien to me so it didn't stick for very long.Originally Posted by Sol
Do you mean to say there is an evident nurture component to sociotype?
Feel like you're just going to die off.... Lol I feel that one. I'm basically exhausted from being around these people esp. my dad.
We should meet up and die off together!
It would be so poetic!
I’ll bring the tea and popcorn.
I'll skip the popcorn and bring quality street instead.
Do you think being around the quadra that is pretty much engineered to overwrite you was what most strongly influenced your development of enneatype 4? I can imagine that would be the case. Like, there would be some sort of subconscious tension beckoning you to “join the gamma side”, and thus trigger E4.
I am E5, but since I am autistic, that was like, sorta ALMOST guaranteed. I am not sure how much of an influence being around alpha and delta Ej’s was to my enneatype.
Maybe you and I would have become E2, E3, E9, or something if in a beta family? INFp seems generally predisposed to E2, E4, and E9 I think. I very well could be very wrong, though.
I'm gamma and growing up in a gamma house, and I'm the only T user in my family.
Props:
Everyone live their own life, not too much pushing each other.
No "Family atmosphere" full of Fe that easily make me annoy.
Very fun when we hanging around, doing some Se activities
I'm free to do anything I want. Everyone have their own things to do, so they won't step in my shoes.
It may seem a little bit "cold", but it's ok for all the family's members
Cons:
My weakness did not improve overtime, I rely on others's Se and Fe (F type have strong Fe) too much, so I didn't get any improvement myself.
Si is mostly ignore, my house is a mess... the only person seem care about Si activities is an ISFj
Since I'm the only T user, I always thought the other members of the family were using too much money for their liking, and I could not stop them!!!
Last edited by Tarnished; 12-28-2020 at 02:29 AM.
seems pretty delta where I grew up. Rural Indiana. I think my mom is IEE-D and my dad SLI-N. Dad spent most of his time working, and the rest of the time chilling. We’d play video games, board games and ping pong. My mom was always on the run doing 10 different thing in 10 different directions, always talking about getting me involved in this and that. I was drug around everywhere as a child. We really weren’t home that much.I got along well with both of my parents, but I always thought my mom was in denial about my weirdness and didn’t understand me very well. My dad and I coexisted just fine. I don’t even think we’ve had a disagreement. I don’t feel like he understands me well either, though. I had an older sister, I think she is SEE-C and her ex who was like my brother, was LIE-D. I felt they understood me a lot better than my parents. My great-grandma used to watch me, who was prob an ESE. She lived with my grandma, an EIE, and my step grandfather, who I think is LSI. Anyway, my great grandma was pretty fun and the only exposure to alpha I can recall as a child, so I don’t think I’m as familiar with it. My EIE grandma and I had a similar sense of humor and interests. I felt she really ‘saw’ me. I always thought my step grandfather was too strict and scary growing up, but as I got older, he’s probably one of the people I admire most. idk really I get along with most people, but my environment growing up def made me think I could be delta, because yeah, I guess I tend to adapt to whatever is thrown at me. But I think other people’s own individual and unique neurosis that I was exposed to early on rubbed off on me more than anything, and has helped shape me into who I am today.
I grew up an Alpha in a Delta household.
Pros: The emotional atmosphere is always calm, certain, peaceful. There is a relaxedness about everything.
Cons: Emotional displays are discouraged. The occasional clashes over Ti vs Fi morality.
Kind of average all around, though there was a noticeable lack of energy.
Betas and Gammas dominate my neighborhood, I think, with Delta following and Alpha last. Most of the Alphas I know are either from my school days or online.
I want to believe, therefore I question everything. I pursue the truth, therefore I eliminate all lies. I crave the ideal, therefore I defy the world.
I'd say I grew up with mostly alphas and betas. My brother and stepsister might be gamma. I don't feel close to anyone in my family in a really mindmeld, perfect acceptance kind of way, unfortunately, seems like no matter what I did I was pressing somebody's buttons and so things I thought were light-hearted, teasing fun always dissolved into arguments. I think this was good training for the real world, unfortunately, where thick skin is rarer than not (and half of the people with thick skin are crazy and aggressive).
I (unfortunately) don't know you very well, so I could only loosely speculate on what factors may have influenced E4 in you. So really, I have no clue why! Your gamma family desiring Fi-Te out of you may have caused you to sort of internalize and forget your Fe-Ti for long periods. Even periods during which you were in a phase of self-growth and exploration. Perhaps your hidden away and rejected Fe-Ti left you with a sense of there being a piece missing to your identity, hence amplifying questions and like:
"Who am I?"
"Why does nobody see me for who I am?"
"Am I just not allowed to be myself?"
"Does anybody really care about who I am?"
"Can't anybody appreciate deep conversations?" (unfortunately, no deep searching will reveal anything if you forgot you left your bearings back at the door)
That is assuming your gamma family was the main influencer of your enneatype, though. And do I REALLY know what I am talking about? probably not..... lol
And as for me being raised by an exclusively Ni PoLR family? Well, it was.... something
My family are nice people overall, but an irremediable disconnect was wedged between me and my family from the start.
I was adopted, Ni lead among Ni PoLR, autistic, and out of their communication range.
My family, and thus youthful I, rejected my Ni and my Fe. Instances of my Ni popping up were battered as if they were playing a game of wack-a-mole. Everything I did or said was wrong and needed correcting. I was bullied for being lazy even though I was a perfectly productive child in my eyes. They think the "correct" way of moving through life every day is to dart full speed ahead and never slow down or look back. However, I am capable of orchestrating how life moves through me, and they find that impossible, ridiculous, and terrifying. Once, when searching for a job I could not find a business that would employ me during a 2 month span of searching and sparks went flying. A mere 2 months without landing a job and they were threatening to kick me out into the Texas wilderness with no friends, money, or place to go at the tender age of 19. Fortunately, they wizened up, but that experience was very turbulent for them and they thought our family would crash. I guess they were scared that me not pulling my own financial weight would have destroyed the family very quickly, even though my parents make over 6 figures together and save a lot of their money. Ni PoLR causes people to be unaware of how things are developing because they can't detach and get an outside view of processes, so it scares them when you operate beyond their periphery.
Even my Fe was rejected. I had a rocky start being an exemplary "social butterfly" in life unlike some Fe users (I still suck at it, really) because I am autistic. If the Fe I was granted at birth is a handy tool or piece of machinery, then autism made me unable to read the user's manual. So here I am, trying to figure out how this tool works as I go along and not get discouraged by my plentiful blunders. I also think my beta +Fe is just different from alpha -Fe, so that didn't help either.
I think I spent a lot of time running away from my family and myself. But I could only run in circles, and I think that led me to my Ti, which I feel more intimate with than I probably really am. I spent a lot of my preadolescent years (and even now, at 20 years old) immersing myself in "Ti" and its related activities. I think this stronger than usual desire for (or connection with?) Ti is what caused E5 to emerge rather than E4 or any other enneatype.
Seems we both like Ti, huh? I'd say since you went to Ti out of being ashamed of who you are, that might have burgeoned E4 development... maybe? Whereas I went to Ti and E5 because I felt like I could not adjust to anything without first figuring out all of its ins and outs; I was led to believe I was maladjusted to everything by default.
But who can really say?
Last edited by Djinn; 12-29-2020 at 07:12 AM.
That's the benefit of growing up with opposing quadra values, at least. I had an alpha/beta household, too. ST betas aren't as immediately off-putting when I had to learn when it was actually worth it to stick up for myself and when to just "get over it" & keep the peace.
I moved around a lot, though, so I can't comment on local quadra values. I noticed more beta (or at least strong Se) in rural areas, maybe because there were less people in general so I just noticed what I didn't like more. Whereas urban areas...you find your own tribe, there's plenty of people.
There really isn’t a clear cut way to determine if your town or city or school or extended family, etc. are of any one Quadra. It’s not like people of different types and Quadras can’t get along or do business together. I think everyone has been exposed to all the Quadras and types, we just didn’t know it.
Grew up surrounded by alphas and deltas. Was great, felt accepted. Was immature, naive and had unrealistic expectations of people for too long though. Got traumatized by betas and general lack of support to my super-id only later in life.
I feel that first paragraph in my soul.
I think I said before that my parents were Alphas and often times it was them kinda of overreacting to something I did, or paying too much attention at what other people thought of me instead of properly defending me. Ideally and realistically they had my back, but to be honest- I wish I "felt" it more you know. They also were hopeless at stopping some of my schemes/asshole behavior in a way as Beta does "correct" Alpha and is naturally higher than it, but they were also older and a natural authority figure being my parents so it created some interesting dynamics. There was a lot of love and support, but we did argue and have power plays. To be fair, I was an asshole and hard to get along with for them as I'm not just like dee oh dum let's go to the alpha park and pretend everything is okay.
They also didn't understand that with bullies you often have to be sadistic back to them. "Be the bigger jerk and a bully crumbles" they didn't understand that concept very well- and I felt let people walk over them too much for it, and I mean this would be fine to me if they were genuinely okay with being a martyr but I don't think alphas ever are, because alphas aren't deltas and it just made them kind of pissy/passive-aggressive too much at times. As they seemed to resent acting too weak and cowardly at times they should have just been more forceful. And I sorta inherited that meek-ness but it's weird in a way as I was never really meek like them either- tbh my meekness is more of a genuine guise I use for more political power, it never felt 'genuine' like theirs did. Like I will openly challenge, ask too many questions, provoke- and piss anybody off no matter their title/position in life or what they can punish me with as in a way I refuse to be submissive that way- but they weren't really like that. I don't care at times if I pay the price for it- as it's worth it sometimes to be provocative.
The shared Fe valuing was really good though. I mean, I could express myself in colorful ways and they didn't get all offended or made me feel misunderstood- but they did correct me if I was being too vulgar or raunchy lol.
Well, I was mistaken when I wrote that my Fe was rejected. Being an aspie, I think my Fe came out in weird ways. Also, being the southern “bumpkins” they claim to be, they had a conventional view on what a boy should act like. My emotionality was thus often made fun of. They are not much like that anymore though. So, it was really other aspects of me that showed through my Fe that seemed unwelcome.
Looking back, I can laugh about it.
Does it ever feel like you live in the hood?
Well, where I live is kind of a hood, so I would say so.
I want to believe, therefore I question everything. I pursue the truth, therefore I eliminate all lies. I crave the ideal, therefore I defy the world.
@aster
Sorry I'm confused. I thought you were EII??? Didn't you once type as that. What made you change to IEI.
lolwell for a while until people tried convincing me I am ESI and I pretty much gave up on typing myself since I got really confused and was pretty depressed at the time. Then I had Gulenko type me recently ->
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...KA-Big-G-SquaD
I grew up in the 70/80ties in blue-collar neighborhood that were largely beta in culture. This is I believe, what in part, made me hold back in social relations, and made me appear to be a shy person. But quadra differences was not the only factor in this. There are two other major factors involved:
1. IQ/intellect: the neuighborhoods I grew up in were large populated by 'simple people', if I may put it that way. Of my class mates in elementary school, about 75% went to menial-vocation type high school, about 15% to medium-level office-work high school (today's national average of these two together is 60%), and the rest largely to higher level office-work high school. Only two of them (one of them being me) ended up in pre-university level high school (today's national average is 20%, but I must hasten to add that numbers were significantly lower in the late 70ties). Needless to say that one's intellect can make you the odd person out if you differ all that much in IQ/intellect.
2. also an effect of growing up in blue collar neighbourhoods: large numbers of ST and SF people. I think the weight of socionic Clubs is actually more important in having an effect on people than quadras. It is much easier for young Delta NFs to have common experiences with Beta NFs and Alpha/Gamma NTs than to STs and SFs. This changes later in life, but when you are young, it is quite important to be with people of your own Club.
When I enrolled in university at age 19, everything changed overnight, I was no longer the odd person out, I could let my extroversion show and even take the lead in social activities. But even to this day, at age 54, most of my own family has no idea of the true me. They are not bad people, I am just beyond their comprehension.
Last edited by consentingadult; 01-03-2021 at 01:25 PM.
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
I certainly did not naturally gravitate to my own quadra people, but in hindsight I realize that I ran into a lot of Deltas that themselves gravitated to me. However, as I focused on trying to realize certain ideals I held (ideals that were more the result of social influences than my natural inclinations), I put all my efforts into mingling with the wrong people. In a sense, I was addicted to social stress. My ideals led me to believe these people (=Delltas), although kind and well meaning, were somewhat boring. That did not change until my midlife crisis. Socionics was a great help in this, because it provided very clear pointers as how to recognize compatible people. Mainstream psychology does not go any further than to provide some good clues, but even with psychologically healthy people from other quadras, you will not get the most out of your relationships.
Most of the good things that happened to me in the days from before my midlife crisis, happened because of the initiative other people took, mostly Deltas and to a lesser extent Gammas, not myself. Quite a few jobs I had thanks to SLIs. It started with an SLI classmate, who had influence with the manager of the local distribution office of the largest, and best paying, Dutch newspaper. It was very difficult to get a job there as paperboy, but after he introduced me, I was delivering their newspapers within a week, earning twice as much as i did delivering the other national newspapers.
On a blog I kept about 15 years ago, I once wrote: "why is it that life takes so good care of me, when I take care of life myself so badly?" The answer is: other Deltas.
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
Family and social circle.
I grew up in a beta and dualized household as an only child. It was quite an idyllic childhood. One thing I can say is that I didn’t end up the Fe subtype, I still grew up Si and rolled my eyes at how my parents dealt with some things.
SLE stepdad was quite lenient (it seems they can’t remain angry at children for long). IEI mother I felt tried to be more strict.
In middle school and following years I became friends with an ESE/ILE boy. I’m not sure which because we were young he was going in that direction. But this is when groups associated with quadras began to form.
In high school I got in touch with some old friends again: an SEI-Fe and an IEE who were besties themselves. Young female IEEs is where superficial IR explanations based on functions go to die because they strive to be ‘fully woman’ so they cook for you, become the ‘worrier’. They are invested in the proper role of women and men. But the SEI-Fe wasn’t far behind. The resulting differences in social life and dating were monumental and, in the end, we drifted apart.
In college things got more diverse. Chiefly because my building was a magnet for students that were majoring in more than one thing and they came from literary studies mostly, and we know how aspiring writers can get.
That sounds like a sucky experience. This inability to project onesef neither forwards nor backwards & the "how it's now = how it will be forever" instead of a sensibility to change and progress is really annoying. Stuck in the emptiness. At least I can just shrug it off and ignore(Ni ignoring).
Si-egos who overidentify with Si often think they have figured out how to live and need to "fix" people around them. In delta STs it can be coupled with an inappropriate tendency to place oneself at the center of all other people's "problems". Double sucky.
Si people often seem particularly quick to discount Ne. Perhaps more than people of other IEs discount its opposite. I wonder why that is.
Your Suggestive function is basically your blind spot. This is also why it is so difficult to spot your dual. You are simply blind towards that kind of information. It's even worse than the PoLR, because although weak, one typically tends to confuse that function for one's Mobilizing.
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
I see that, but it seems to me like Si people seem more blind to Ne than, say, an Ni person would be blind to Se. Perhaps that’s not true; I may just have noticed it more with them.
People to me: Why do you not eat regurlarly? Me: Because I can live like this.
OK this is funny: LII said to me after noticing my variety of facial expressions compared to IXTx types : You seem logical but your emotions seem quite apparent. Do you make desicions based on logic? I thought that it is not necessary to polarize things like that because on daily basis I'm not so clear at all.
Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 01-05-2021 at 08:38 PM.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
That is not an unlikely hypothesis as Se is much more involved with the environment than Ne. Ne is much more cerebral, so you won't notice it just passing by a lead-Ne type. I mean, the average SLE walks like he owns the world. So to recognize e.g. an ILE, you have to see what is not there in order to 'deduce' what is there.
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
I was wondering how much do people relate to the types of their parents? Do you think you come across a bit like the types of your parents? I think I probs seem ESE-like, like my mother’s type. I guess we are influenced by their type through genes/upbringing..but I mean..will we have a sort of passing resemblance to their type..so maybe there is something ESE-ish my ‘manner’, maybe even attitudes too..that kind of stands out. Would someone else be able to spot it in us?
My mom is ILI-Te and I spent most of my time as a child with my ESE-Fe grandma, but my EII-Fi grandpa was there too and my childhood was pretty great. When my grandpa passed, I mourned the loss of that sense of being understood and the ability to just be myself and be accepted. My mom and grandma are very loving, but it’s just the difference in Quadra values, which affected them just as much if not more being conflictors. There is a desire to gravitate toward an atmosphere where all your valued elements and strengths are also valued.
My parents were both S-types so that could be one reason for me becoming much more physically oriented and DIY than the average LII. However, type didn't have nearly the effect on my upbringing as did my father being an alcoholic and my older brother being brain damaged at birth due to incompetent doctors. I often wondered if I became a Ti-subtype because I constantly needed to isolate myself from the self-destructive natures of my father and brother while my mother ran herself ragged trying to keep them from harm. Needless to say, I became very self-sufficient - and developed a fairly unique ability to easily detach from emotional attacks, which has helped me enormously in my career.
a.k.a. I/O
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