Do ESFps have ANY redeeming qualities?!

[calm]

They can be very hard workers and can attain a lot if they put their mind to it and exercise discipline. They can engender a spirit of competition. I find their lack of intuition prevents them from "rigging the competition" unless they have some cunning allies.

They're decent enough so long as they don't get too close or try to take advantage of my time and intellect. However, I try to keep a distance because I can get easily exhausted. Generally, they are likable when they have their dual nearby to help even things out, but isn't that generally true of duals?

The only time she has genuine people around her is when I’m around. I make their lives so much better. They don’t have any freaking appreciation, that’s the problem. And will treat their duals like it is THEM and only them who brings something to the relationship. They wanna be worshipped, you know. They just don’t wanna be a good person and earn the praise their selfish hearts desire. Also, I have to tone down my talent and lovableness around other people, lest they look bad.

[Nobody]

@calm duality is not the garantee for perfect relationships. Why do you associate with wrecking balls in the first place?

I think Miley is SEE...lol.

[voider]

I think Miley is SEE...lol.

I loved this song when it came out and I love it now too. Lol. I think she's SEE too.

[lkdhf qkb]

I think too that she is SEE. I made the reference with her in mind actually

[calm]

Miley is a SLE, and I’ve met her a few times. I was an extra on her Disney show Hannah Montana.

[Nobody]

Well, I'm going to speak from personal experience here, which may not apply to you, but I too used to type ILI and thought it made sense and couldn't see myself as an Ij or INTj. Both have strong Ti and Ni and sucky Fi/Fe, but I kind of misunderstood Fi/Fe and Ti.

ILIs like Se, to be engaged and active; this kind of personality is something they are supposed to want on some level. But I have more of an architect/creator mindset. I know the socionics literature calls INTj "the analyst", but for me it is "the architect". And I don't really care about engaging the world, so it's probably my polr. And some things I thought belonged to Ti I was also attributing to Fi, such as ambivalent feelings about everything, which I guess could be argued as an internalized feeling, but I have strong contradictory feelings about everything, which makes me not have strong inclinations, if that makes sense, so I actually prefer to be more in-the-moment feeling and an Fe type helps me with that. I also noticed that I seemed to really rub people that are Fi-valuing the wrong way as well; I could make a joke or poke people for fun and they'd assume bad intentions behind it when I'm really just bored and maybe just looking for a reaction.

But I've also not gotten along well with Fe types historically because I think even though function pairs are supposed to complement each other, if someone is a strong extrovert or introvert, they repress and hold too much negative energy about their dual-seeking function. It's gotten better now that I think I'm more self-aware and I don't take myself as seriously anymore. So if you're ILI, maybe this has something to do with it too, including the SEEs you're around.

[SGF]

idk guys, socionics is information metabolism, so how you process information, its not behaviorism based, so SEE when converting to MBTI which is more of a "how one behaves" = ESTP more than anything else.

See conversion chart:



<.< the types that are more of a stereotypical MBTI ESFP are IEE & ESE..

This makes sense why most ppl who go by behaviour attribute SLE to ppl like Trump for example, because he is ESTP in MBTI & behaviour... but a real SLE is more like MBTI ENTJ or INTJ.

Makes sense as the bald snake dude is considered SLE in socionics and ENTJ in MBTI.



this is why I have a problem with how you guys type here, its all MBTI contaminated, most ppl cannot separate the two in their heads.

[Misfit]

In my experience my ESFp dual was wonderful. Too bad social media was just a place we didn't interact very well. Im worried if she is busy for reasons i can't specify on this forum for privacy and cant hang out with me for muslim reasons (she's a girl, im a guy, we live with parents anyway), and we attended different parts of the same school later (me the junior college sub section, her the main campus, until i dropped out to get a health care class pre-certification online), leaving me with no other option but to ask her to court her after her college (she wants to finish college first), but in some ways i dont feel ready to date her, i want to continue being friendly. either that or she got creeped out by one rant post about feeling neglected i cant remember the details of and is ignoring me.

but to answer your question:
good sides: tolerant, warm, easy going, states whats on her mind and gets straight to the point with sensory like style, something us intutive types have trouble with, like ILIs, (although, I may be LII, so I may be wrong about ILIs, i always heard they were blunt).
bad sides: i dont want to gossip about my friend, so im not gonna look for fault in her, really i didn't notice much, but ill state what others have said: if they are irresponsible, know they dont like to be controlled. so approach gently. provide structure in a nonjudgemental way, because ILIs tend to crush other people's dreams when really we're just stating facts (even though said dreams may be brainstorming, or we may be pointing out what may be wrong, when we just dont know)

[sbbds]

Miley is a SLE, and I’ve met her a few times. I was an extra on her Disney show Hannah Montana.

I agree with this actually.

[SGF]

Miley is a SLE, and I’ve met her a few times. I was an extra on her Disney show Hannah Montana.

e_e thats because you consider her ESTP... which in socionics is more SEE than SLE.
You like most ppl here know jack shit about socionics, then come to make a fucking thread blaming one type for your misfortune, which you could have controlled yourself by simply having proper boundaries like sane ppl.

The fact that such a thread was even posted (generalizing & blaming a type) warrants 2 possibilities here: trolling for lulz or you aren't right in the head.

Now I'm going to show you wtf you should have done with those ppl you mentioned above, by blacklisting your ass and ignoring you before you piss me off even further.

[Computer Loser]

SEEs are awesome.

They have a presence unmatched by any of the 16 types

[Nobody]

@calm
I'm intrigued, since you say you've been around Miley Cyrus before, what was it about her that made you conclude Ti-valuing over Fi-valuing?

[FDG]

SEE also have this special energy, they can bring a group of people together, even if they haven't met for a long while, they can have fun etc and create a light atmosphere. LIEs can do it a bit too but only on special occasions. ESIs and ILIs are completely unable to do this.

[qaz00]

e_e thats because you consider her ESTP... which in socionics is more SEE than SLE.
You like most ppl here know jack shit about socionics, then come to make a fucking thread blaming one type for your misfortune, which you could have controlled yourself by simply having proper boundaries like sane ppl.

The fact that such a thread was even posted (generalizing & blaming a type) warrants 2 possibilities here: trolling for lulz or you aren't right in the head.

Now I'm going to show you wtf you should have done with those ppl you mentioned above, by blacklisting your ass and ignoring you before you piss me off even further.

You remind me of this picture:

[nanashi]

Never met an ESFP who didn’t sleep around. I find them so repulsive.

Um. I have met several ESFPS who've had very few sexual partners. Humans choosing sex is their prerogative. They don't need nor deserve our shame.

[SlytherinPower]

I loved this song when it came out and I love it now too. Lol. I think she's SEE too.

Same. My favorite song from that album was Robot though.

[calm]

e_e thats because you consider her ESTP... which in socionics is more SEE than SLE.
You like most ppl here know jack shit about socionics, then come to make a fucking thread blaming one type for your misfortune, which you could have controlled yourself by simply having proper boundaries like sane ppl.

The fact that such a thread was even posted (generalizing & blaming a type) warrants 2 possibilities here: trolling for lulz or you aren't right in the head.

Now I'm going to show you wtf you should have done with those ppl you mentioned above, by blacklisting your ass and ignoring you before you piss me off even further.

Mustve missed the part where I said I met her in person and worked with her. But wow you seem very upset. I don’t care. None of what you said was necessary. My post was a rant but I used a lot of hyperbole and in that way I’m definitely trolling. I started with “I’m fed up” for a reason. GoodBye!
For a Gamma hater he sure does love the Gamma Thread!

[SlytherinPower]

e_e thats because you consider her ESTP... which in socionics is more SEE than SLE.
You like most ppl here know jack shit about socionics, then come to make a fucking thread blaming one type for your misfortune, which you could have controlled yourself by simply having proper boundaries like sane ppl.

The fact that such a thread was even posted (generalizing & blaming a type) warrants 2 possibilities here: trolling for lulz or you aren't right in the head.

Now I'm going to show you wtf you should have done with those ppl you mentioned above, by blacklisting your ass and ignoring you before you piss me off even further.

How does mbti ESTP correlate more to SEE in socionics? & What does mbti ESFP correlate most with then? I know the function definitions differ somewhat, but I still have way more knowledge in mbti than socionics so the relationship between the 2 theories is still a little fuzzy to me sometimes.

Don't mean to derail the original reason for this thread, but I was genuinely curious when I came across your response about it. Especially since I usually consider ESTP or ENTP for myself in myers briggs (though I think ENFJ could be plausible too).

[calm]

SEEs are awesome.

They have a presence unmatched by any of the 16 types

I hate them and their presence always spell doom or disaster to me. But LSIs disappear far sooner than everyone else or saves the day in some LSI way.

[calm]

How does mbti ESTP correlate more to SEE in socionics? & What does mbti ESFP correlate most with then? I know the function definitions differ somewhat, but I still have way more knowledge in mbti than socionics so the relationship between the 2 theories is still a little fuzzy to me sometimes.

Don't mean to derail the original reason for this thread, but I was genuinely curious when I came across your response about it. Especially since I usually consider ESTP or ENTP for myself in myers briggs (though I think ENFJ could be plausible too).

It sounds like hogwash because it is hogwash.

[SlytherinPower]

I hate them and their presence always spell doom or disaster to me. But LSIs disappear far sooner than everyone else or saves the day in some LSI way.

If you hate them then don't date them. Simple. Problem solved. Why date a type you hate? People are completely goofy sometimes, I swear.

[calm]

Um. I have met several ESFPS who've had very few sexual partners. Humans choosing sex is their prerogative. They don't need nor deserve our shame.

They are liars so I wouldn’t be so quick to believe such a blatant lie like that.

[SlytherinPower]

It sounds like hogwash because it is hogwash.

Not necessarily, because their definitions do differ so I've heard there's not always a direct correlation. Like I've heard Te in mbti can correlate with SeTi in socionics sometimes. They are different systems.

[calm]

SEE also have this special energy, they can bring a group of people together, even if they haven't met for a long while, they can have fun etc and create a light atmosphere. LIEs can do it a bit too but only on special occasions. ESIs and ILIs are completely unable to do this.

I prefer LIEs 100 percent. I’ll probably marry one of those. We can have a SEE child together to ease the mirror woes, I can just send the little shit to their room when their evil ESFP tendencies show up.

[SlytherinPower]

They are liars so I wouldn’t be so quick to believe such a blatant lie like that.

Any type can lie though. I have an ISFp friend that's told some pretty bizarre lies before. I find ESFps to be pretty direct, myself. If I ask my ESFp friend for advice for example he doesn't sugar coat, which I like. Somehow even though he's direct it comes across better than say an ESTj giving advice would. Probably just because I know he's a cheery person even when being straightforward.

[calm]

SEEs are awesome.

They have a presence unmatched by any of the 16 types

I want to put them all on an island and let them kill each other. I’d watch from my sailboat with binoculars.

[SlytherinPower]

I prefer LIEs 100 percent. I’ll probably marry one of those. We can have a SEE child together to ease the mirror woes, I can just send the little shit to their room when their evil ESFP tendencies show up.

You sound like a fun person

[calm]

@calm
I'm intrigued, since you say you've been around Miley Cyrus before, what was it about her that made you conclude Ti-valuing over Fi-valuing?

She is extremely direct and definitely not a feeler. Such an Se dom too but an obvious negativist. Trust me, even with my bias, I’m sure she’s not a SEE. She goes by what she’s thinking not what she’s feeling, uses Fe tho. She’d be very direct with the crew. She was never moody in any way, always about business. A boss! she earned my respect the second I saw her in action. Great gal!

[calm]

Any type can lie though. I have an ISFp friend that's told some pretty bizarre lies before. I find ESFps to be pretty direct, myself. If I ask my ESFp friend for advice for example he doesn't sugar coat, which I like. Somehow even though he's direct it comes across better than say an ESTj giving advice would. Probably just because I know he's a cheery person even when being straightforward.

But they lie COMPULSIVELY. They can not stand to tell the truth. Is it Ti polr? They will even say their name with an accent it doesn’t have, just to squeeze a lie in. They will switch around numbers if you ask for their phone number, just to lie some more. They love lying more than the reckless excessive irresponsible sex, and surprisingly more than they love stealing, and stealing men/women from people, kicking people while their down, and manipulating them, and abusing young children.

[nanashi]

They are liars so I wouldn’t be so quick to believe such a blatant lie like that.

um, no. no type is a liar type

[Tzuyu]

um, no. no type is a liar type

don’t listen to her @calm... she likes LIEs

[DEAD]

Duality's overrated, my @calm friend.

[Aster]

I’ve had a bad experience with a SEE lately. I also think she’s enneagram 3, maybe 3w2 sx/so. I think that plays a part. But I kind of see what you mean. She was a huge liar, I couldn’t believe it. But I don’t think all SEE’s are like this. Maybe it’s also a combo of enneagram . And I think she was just plain fucked up. Maybe you are attracting people who are fucked up lol

honestly I’d recommend just forgetting about socionics and focus more on your chemistry with another person and if it doesn’t work out it’s not the end of the world. I see people thinking too much about socionics and being too picky and over complicating things. makes it hard to find anyone like that, you’ll be 80

[SlytherinPower]

But they lie COMPULSIVELY. They can not stand to tell the truth. Is it Ti polr? They will even say their name with an accent it doesn’t have, just to squeeze a lie in. They will switch around numbers if you ask for their phone number, just to lie some more. They love lying more than the reckless excessive irresponsible sex, and surprisingly more than they love stealing, and stealing men/women from people, kicking people while their down, and manipulating them, and abusing young children.

No I don't think that's Ti PoLR. Does sound like a narcissist or someone who needs therapy however. If someone was like that I'd run.

Lying about their phone number just sounds like something someone would do if they weren't interested in someone but were afraid to outright turn them down.

Actually abusing someone sounds like someone who should be locked up for a crime.

[SGF]

You remind me of this picture:

lmao

Imo I'm trying to be nice and tolerant for some reason... but the sad fact is that internally I'm nothing of the sort -.-, so when someone gives me enough reasons to lose trust.. it looks like suddenly I'm hostile.. but really it was that from the start, i was merely suppressing it for the sake of getting along.

[SGF]

How does mbti ESTP correlate more to SEE in socionics? & What does mbti ESFP correlate most with then? I know the function definitions differ somewhat, but I still have way more knowledge in mbti than socionics so the relationship between the 2 theories is still a little fuzzy to me sometimes.

Don't mean to derail the original reason for this thread, but I was genuinely curious when I came across your response about it. Especially since I usually consider ESTP or ENTP for myself in myers briggs (though I think ENFJ could be plausible too).

The correlation chart I posted is from Expat (an old forum memeber here) as far as I understood at one point socionics experts typed MBTI descriptions in Kiev and that chart was the result. Original MBTI is just the dichotomies, no functions. Even so, the functional model is abstract and an attempt at describing internal information processing, even IF nowadays the MBTI tries to use functions, their Se for example is more like socionics Si and there are other differences which means you can't translate Se-Fi SEE into MBTI ESFP via the functions, because it won't be the same kind of person MBTI ESFP is describing.

e_e so if we type someone by surface behavior here as ESFP... all 4 socionics types SEE, EIE, IEE and ESE are likely until we can actually check how that person thinks internally. I'm not good at this, so I try not to type ppl, which is why I was reticent to type you as well and its why I rely on data and statistics from authority figures in socionics such as Gulenko. It's simply safer than wild speculation and being wrong / misinforming a forum member, such as yourself here.

[calm]

I’ve had a bad experience with a SEE lately. I also think she’s enneagram 3, maybe 3w2 sx/so. I think that plays a part. But I kind of see what you mean. She was a huge liar, I couldn’t believe it. But I don’t think all SEE’s are like this. Maybe it’s also a combo of enneagram . And I think she was just plain fucked up. Maybe you are attracting people who are fucked up lol

honestly I’d recommend just forgetting about socionics and focus more on your chemistry with another person and if it doesn’t work out it’s not the end of the world. I see people thinking too much about socionics and being too picky and over complicating things. makes it hard to find anyone like that, you’ll be 80

What’s your type and can you elaborate on those experiences?

[calm]

If any SEEs I know go missing I know where to start looking then. Lol

Ok what type are you? You’re alright.

[FDG]

um, no. no type is a liar type

well many SEEs constantly lie about many small things to idk, "look better" or such. If you observe them for a while it's clear and definitely not something that inspires trust. They may even straight out lie to your face and if you call them out they will try to talk badly about you among common acquaintances. It's pretty standard behavior for them.

[voider]

well many SEEs constantly lie about many small things to idk, "look better" or such. If you observe them for a while it's clear and definitely not something that inspires trust. They may even straight out lie to your face and if you call them out they will try to talk badly about you among common acquaintances. It's pretty standard behavior for them.

Damn all of you have such a dim fucking view of SEEs. But it's probably true, except I'm not a normie SEE considering I'm on this forum, so I can't really relate to it. I relate to the more innocent version of that which is white lies to make the other person feel better, though.