What do ESFjs and ISFps think of "Caregiver" type descriptions?

[SaveYourself]

One of the things that makes me hesitant to accept an alpha SF typing, and also feel a little sick , is descriptions of caregivers in romantic relationships. But I'm aware that these descriptions might be a little outdated / made for a different culture to mine. So I wanted to hear how you think of caregivers (particularly alpha caregivers but also in general). Both general descriptions plus irl experience welcome.

First person who mentions cooking and cleaning up after a manchild husband gets an elbow drop to the face

[Vespertine]

Hmm, I saw emotional support, going out of their way to make people comfortable, I'm talking more empathy than matetial stuff here, to make sure others are doing well.
A certain amount of "nesting". Sure, they care for other, yet they need their comfort too.
Can force their sense of confort on others. (Everyone can force ego functions on others.)

Saying words that uplift, that soothe, that give positive energy.
Trying to make things "feel right", for themselves and others, creating a comfortable emotional atmosphere.

They focus on how to make the experience enjoyable for others which makes them enjoy it more.
When receiving, can be inclined to offer snack and something to drink from their fridge, as people feel better with a full stomach.
Caring on an emotional level, sharing food, learning and exchanging with others seems to make them happy.
It is important that they are cared for too. If they do all the giving, they can get tired and frustrated, it's not because they are "care givers" that they don't need anyone to care about them.

I know an ESE, she is quite impractical and doesn't think cleaning is taking care. It angerspains her when her children dislike the food she spent time making and ask for pricy take out food.
She loves to care for children and disabled people, yet is sad because it wears her down physically and she had to stop for her health. Very open minded on mental health problems, good listener... once she is done talking, lol...
She does care and help, and wants to be appreciated for what she does. (Being told "thank you"...) < this is very important to the person I'm describing. Unsure if it is her or FeSi.
Sometimes she thinks that some other care givers' actions are infantilizing.

Alpha SF are gentle, not doormats that clean behind idiots.
Likely will flee agressive settings.

I think if you read @Xaiviay posts, you could get a decent vision of casual alpha care giver things.

This post got long... o.o
Maybe I'm completely wrong. This is all stuff I saw possibly alpha SF do. : I
Hope this gamma written take helps... xD

[Mila]

First person who mentions cooking and cleaning up after a manchild husband gets an elbow drop to the face

But this is exactly how it is. And I'm not even alpha.

If you don't feel excited about cooking and cleaning for a manchild then I'd suggest considering different type because that's exactly how it is. Otherwise maybe you acting like child will fit.
In the menu we had also the role of feeling perpetually hurt and abused by an aggressive boyfriend or becoming an abusive wife.

As you can see, cooking and cleaning is not so offensive.

[The Reality Denialist]

It is kind if funny. I know gammas that think I'm a man child because I have lived most of my time in adulthood without companion and do everything in household like I see. For example: I have lived without washing machine because there is a sink, powder and hands.
I'm not interested in social networking. In a way my dependency of people is lower than wannabe old farts and this has been labelled as not being grown up.

[SaveYourself]

@lilith iris
Awesome post. This was basically what I was suspecting with the emotional caregiving (which I can see myself doing - lots of compliments, making sure everyone is included in the conversation, taking people under my wing, hosting parties etc). I do absolutely zero practical caregiving though, which is throwing me off.
@Aki
The doormat slave to an abusive partner is worse, yes. I have seen that mentioned several times. But still drives home the point that caregiver descriptions aren't great. If the practical caregiving is an essential part of it then I will have to look else where

[Adam Strange]

The problem with most descriptions of types is that they are written by people who are not that type's dual.

[The Reality Denialist]

This viewpoint is strange but take a look at personality disorders. For example dependent screams very badly developed IEI.

Dependent IEI: Help, me aggressor, my savior just because you can do so much! Tell me what to wear, please, your muscular greatness.

[Overthinker]

First person who mentions cooking and cleaning up after a manchild husband gets an elbow drop to the face

If you frame it like this, it obviously sounds bad, but the way I think about it is more along the lines of, I don’t mind doing these things if it’s for a person I truly like. It’s not some random manchild we’re talking about - otherwise why would you bother? - it’s your manchild, someone you genuinely care for and wish to help in some way.

Also, this “taking care of someone” in a sense, should be something that you spontaneously feel like doing, sometimes even to show your attraction to someone. I am absolutely not an expert at romantic relationships - so take this with a massive grain of salt - but all the 0.7 times I fell in love with someone I awkwardly tried to show that I liked her by offering to do things for her.

So yeah, while most descriptions are pretty awkward to read, perhaps because of the cultural gap, I do think there’s a grain of truth in there.

Plus, being a straight male, I get to cook for a womanchild, which reverses gender roles, and that’s always cool and progressive and stuff. It is so completely by accident, but still.

[Desert Financial]

First person who mentions cooking and cleaning up after a manchild husband gets an elbow drop to the face

IME, the caregiver role does in fact tend to include practical behaviors like cooking and cleaning. It also frequently includes teaching (for example, LSE may teach you about finances or ESE may teach you about behaving appropriately).

Si ego types often take such roles because they legitimately see importance in such matters. They value maintenance.

Overall, the accuracy of your statement depends on how you define "manchild."

[Adam Strange]

@mrrrmaid, @lilith iris's description of alpha SF's seems fantastic to me, too.

I've worked with an SEI-Fe for a few years. She and I get along well, probably because I intentionally keep a distance between us, but nevertheless, I've seen that she's excellent at putting people at ease and at hosting the company Christmas party and greeting customers and just generally being a wonderfully upbeat and pleasant person to be around.

Full disclosure: I also know a couple SEI-Si's, and we seriously do not get along.

She is married to an ESI, and I've observed them together and I don't get the impression that she takes care of him in any practical way at all. Similarly, she works with a male ILE and she doesn't really do any practical caregiving (that I can see) for him, either. Rather, she acts more like a kind and indulgent mother who mostly encourages the ILE but who also gives him a kick every once in a while. She is able to do this without offending the ILE in the slightest (while he is really prickly towards everyone else).
Over time, I've seen the ILE's attitude toward her go from, "I'm the boss of everything and I know everything" to being kind of stopped in his tracks when he first started noticing her, to feeling (as I interpret it, and I might be getting this wrong) super-appreciative and defensive-of-her around her.

I do think that the way she has decorated her office and the way she dresses are the best in the company. She can present a nearly perfect image of comfort and style, but I've never heard her talk about doing housework.
Someone does keep the office supplies well-stocked. It might be her, but it might not. She does keep customer and purchase and government regulation records perfectly. That's a form of maintenance, I guess.

[Overthinker]

Also, I think that being a young Caregiver makes it hard to relate to these descriptions, because someone like me who is in his early 20’s doesn’t really know anything about taking care of someone, since I’ve been taken care of for most of my life. So the role of Caregiver sounds alien and unnatural. For example @A Moderator mentions managing finances, and I really wouldn’t know anything about it, because I have very little experience doing it - perhaps my Te will naturally adjust to it?

Maybe it’s a role we are supposed to ‘grow into’, in a sense.

[SaveYourself]

If you frame it like this, it obviously sounds bad, but the way I think about it is more along the lines of, I don’t mind doing these things if it’s for a person I truly like. It’s not some random manchild we’re talking about - otherwise why would you bother? - it’s your manchild, someone you genuinely care for and wish to help in some way.

Also, this “taking care of someone” in a sense, should be something that you spontaneously feel like doing, sometimes even to show your attraction to someone. I am absolutely not an expert at romantic relationships - so take this with a massive grain of salt - but all the 0.7 times I fell in love with someone I awkwardly tried to show that I liked her by offering to do things for her.

So yeah, while most descriptions are pretty awkward to read, perhaps because of the cultural gap, I do think there’s a grain of truth in there.

Plus, being a straight male, I get to cook for a womanchild, which reverses gender roles, and that’s always cool and progressive and stuff. It is so completely by accident, but still.

The reason I phrased it like that was because that's the sort of attitude I was seeing on this forum and others, particularly when talking about ESE. What I was after is more like what you've described. I guess like @Adam Strange said above, I wanted the perspective of either a caregiver or an infantile in a dual relationship to explain how this feels good. I wanted to hear that so that I could see if I really am not a caregiver, or am a caregiver who was put off by non-caregiver/infantiles skewing the relationship dynamic. Also my friend is a male SEI and an amazing househusband to a womanchild - I think it's really cool!

@Troll Nr 007
Definitely histrionic / narcissistic. Exhibitionism, provocative behaviour, attention-seeking for the former, over confidence, fantasies of success, need for admiration for the latter. If I'm flirting it's actually very focused on me and how I come across. Lots of provocative behaviour and showing off. Demanding he keep up with me and getting a kick out of it (though also disappointment) if he can't. Which makes me think I'm more on the victim / aggressor "gauntlet throwing" axis.
Edit: though I do then switch in a gentler mode once I've won. I guess I like to know he's worth something, then beat him, then switch to being receptive and (emotionally) caregiving in the form of compliments and cheering him up.

[Desert Financial]

Also, I think that being a young Caregiver makes it hard to relate to these descriptions, because someone like me who is in his early 20’s doesn’t really know anything about taking care of someone, since I’ve been taken care of for most of my life. So the role of Caregiver sounds alien and unnatural. For example @A Moderator mentions managing finances, and I really wouldn’t know anything about it, because I have very little experience doing it - perhaps my Te will naturally adjust to it?

Maybe it’s a role we are supposed to ‘grow into’, in a sense.

It just boils down to what someone cares about; proficiency with a skillset isn't relevant. Ie. you can suck ass at maintenance, but if you find yourself focusing on issues that involve maintenance more than others, talking about issues that involve maintenance more than others, or acting on issues that involve maintenance more than others, it suggests Si ego.

[Desert Financial]

househusband

I just wanted to point out that this is a term now.

[Adam Strange]

have you read these articles yet @mrrrmaid? http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...s-and-Subtypes http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...otic-Attitudes <--- thoughts?

romance styles are weird imo but can't articulate why/how (don't feel capable) + dunno what a solution or alternative might be
[it's possible that my understanding is flawed of course ]

@hag, the names of the erotic attitudes are misleading if you are trying to base behavioral expectations off them. For example, when I've been with a lover for a while, I might mention socionics and how I'm considered to be a "Victim", and the response I usually get is that I'm not a victim, but rather I'm clearly an Aggressor. I've thought about this a lot, and while I do have moments when I feel victimish, most of the time I prefer the role of the Aggressor, in the sense that I take an active role in courtship and in bed.

However, what I do strongly relate to is the description in the Erotic Attitudes article which states that victims need to be frequently reassured of their partner's interest. I naturally assume that if I haven't had any attention from my partner recently, then things are going downhill.

The other thing that makes me think that I'm a "Victim" is the way I relate to types with the other erotic styles. I like Aggressor types best, Caregiver types are OK but boring, Victim types are interesting but I can't seem to get things going with them, and Infantiles are kind of horrible to think about having sex with.

[SaveYourself]

Yeah @hag and the beta EIE / LSI one in the first article made me recoil even more than caregiver description D:
The second article was better imo. I feel like I'm very caregivery (need to "protect" and care for) with my friends but not at all in relationships.
This: "They know on an almost subliminal level exactly who they are looking for, and anyone who does not fit the bill will be subjected to a rather flakey, hot-cold game of courting tag" and this: "Healthy examples of this type will have a sense of self-esteem, and may think of themselves as the "prize" that will be given only to the rightful owner" from the challenger / trophy description and this: "In searching for a partner, they are looking for a worthy opponent - someone who is strong enough to withstand their quirks without "breaking" so to speak." from the pseudo-aggressor / employee description is v much my approach. I'm very kind, calm and toned down for new friends whereas new potential dates get hazed.

@hag, the names of the erotic attitudes are misleading if you are trying to base behavioral expectations off them. For example, when I've been with a lover for a while, I might mention socionics and how I'm considered to be a "Victim", and the response I usually get is that I'm not a victim, but rather I'm clearly an Aggressor. I've thought about this a lot, and while I do have moments when I feel victimish, most of the time I prefer the role of the Aggressor, in the sense that I take an active role in courtship and in bed.

However, what I do strongly relate to is the description in the Erotic Attitudes article which states that victims need to be frequently reassured of their partner's interest. I naturally assume that if I haven't had any attention from my partner recently, then things are going downhill.

The other thing that makes me think that I'm a "Victim" is the way I relate to types with the other erotic styles. I like Aggressor types best, Caregiver types are OK but boring, Victim types are interesting but I can't seem to get things going with them, and Infantiles are kind of horrible to think about having sex with.

That's pretty in-keeping with the pseudo-aggressor description of LIE though, right? I knew an LIE and I found him very forward and aggressive (waaaaayy too much - and I wasn't alone, a lot of people saw him as creepy / predatory) but he was doing that because he was seeking a girl who wouldn't take his shit and would challenge him back. He talked of a girl who accepted his challenge to a headbutting competition and if she ain't Se ego...
But yeah I much prefer "trophy / challenger" to "victim"

[Adam Strange]

“Withstanding”? @hag, can you say more about this?

*EDIT*
Incidentally, I read people’s stories about the awkward clumsiness of LIE’s sexual advances and I inwardly cringe. It sounds to me like these guys are clueless and completely without any sense of social propriety, or boundaries, for that matter.

At the same time, that’s exactly the reaction that I get sometimes.
This response could be to my jokes, to my advances, or to a simple discussion.

I think that most LIE’s solve this problem either by making the conscious decision to never talk about sex or ITR’s at all (I did this when younger, prior to dating), or by getting married (usually, not to a dual) and then never talking about sex or ITR’s again.

I also think that LIE's are very straightforward and open about sex (in a non-judgemental way) while most other people are not. Here is an example.

Yesterday, I was at a remote government site with an SLI customer. When we arrived, an attractive young female who looked kind of masculine in a deer-like way met us, introduced herself, and then had to leave the site shortly thereafter for another appointment.
After she left, I turned to the SLI and said, "She looks really familiar, but I can't place her."
SLI "I'm pretty sure you two have met before, Adam."
"What? If so, I don't remember."
"The last time you met, she was a he."
"Oh, I see."
I was about to say something else, but the SLI cut me off and said "It's better not to talk about that. It's just rude to discuss things like that."
I was a bit taken aback at his level of discomfort with the topic, but I said, "I was going to say that I thought she had beautiful fingernails."

Furthermore, I can be innocent to the sexual innuendos going on around me, and this can sometimes make the things I say extremely inappropriate.

I was talking with a female ESI I both liked and had known for a long time and her IEI friend when she asked me if I thought her jeans were too tight. Her rear end was sticking out over the bar stool she was sitting on, and the rear pockets of her jeans were stretched pretty tightly across her gluteus maximus. I made a mental judgement about the tension of the cloth of her pockets, moved toward her and said, completely innocently and completely cluelessly, "Probably not. I'll bet I can get two fingers in there."
The look of horror on the IEI's face and the "kill" expression on the ESI's face made me think that the convo was not about what I had thought it was about.

I'd say I'm a good example of Asperger's syndrome, except that I don't meet the criteria in any other areas.

[Rebelondeck]

Socionics uses label words that have differing dictionary meanings than the concepts it's attempting to describe. I recommend to not focus on the labels. I didn't describe an ESE as a caregiver:

http://www.socionics.com/articles/impressions_esfj.html

a.k.a. I/O

[Vespertine]

@Adam Strange @mrrrmaid : )

The Si's I know seemed to grow boilling inside from taking care over and over again without appreciation. Sure, if you're an early 1900's little girl who wants to be a good wife, taking care of all house work sounds like the best plan! Then, you got societal recognition... *cough*andpressure*cough* ahem...
It's not today's reality.

I know a delta care giver and she did take care of her sick mother regarding house work, enjoying and dreading it because it was tiring. Her mom simply couldn't anymore. Pretty sure she would not have done it otherwise.
I don't think she ever was in a relationship.
Her mom lives with her sister now.
Sometimes, she seems to "take care" by informing about current politics. She really wants people to know who they are voting for, elections are coming 'round here.
Some people talk politics to listen to themselves being smart, others for controverse... she seems to care about a good, comfortable political knowledge and environment.
She takes care of her physical health and promotes training, how better it makes feel physically, the advantages of strength developement.
I know a SEI who does chi qong teaching sometimes for health and well being reasons, yet it's more based on good group vibes and feelings. The delta is more physical feeling and pragmatism.
What I'm trying to say is, they are people who sorta fit a type, they are not straight out of one of the "16 boxesTM".

While people are whining about duality...

I'm supposed to be some hard-to-get "thing" for an agressive, completly mental idiot who only think of sex and fun. That is simply disgusting.
I'm honestly even more reluctant to talk to any "dual" after this bullshit... though it's how I'm supposed to be it seems... I hate it.
It keeps running in the back of my head like a threat. It's like I only have choice between celibacy vows in a monastery or a toxic asf "relationship".

All duality are kind of too far pushed and gross on many level, I don't manage to read those shit. It's like the author liked using the most dysfonctional example possible.
Sometimes, socionics lacks "pretty stuff".

... the shit people think of ILIs also... : /

After whining...
This ESE I talked about, I met her around the same time I met a LII. They aren't dating and it is out of question, yet it is possible to see the appreciation they have for one other. Neither looks like a "slave" to the other, they are there for each other in times of crisis. They answer well to each other's help.
It just... flows well.
They don't know they are duals, nor what duality is. It just happened.

[Adam Strange]

@lilith iris, I had some pretty strange impressions of my duals from reading the descriptions on the web. It took me a long time to see through the described weirdness and find the essence in the descriptions.

When I did, I realized that my best friend from HS was a dual, and our "duality" "just happened".
When I look at how and why it happened, I'd say that both of us were trying very hard to do something which is very difficult (establish the courses of our lives) and we provided support to each other toward those goals.

If I had to describe him, I'd say he was loyal, super intelligent but didn't think so, seemed kind of awkward around strangers, and had an ironic sense of humor. If he had any bad points, I didn't see them. The only thing that bothered me about him was that he really seemed to believe that he wasn't smart, although it was obvious to me that he was smart. He simply would not self-promote or make claims of greatness, although he did sometimes make oblique fun of some of the cliques at school. (He's now a PhD Astrophysicist.)

That differs somewhat from the standard descriptions, and only partly because I'm fairly dense at personality descriptions.

[SaveYourself]

It's come up a couple of times that I misunderstood / exaggerated caregiver or the name 'caregiver'. Just wanted to point out that that was literally the aim of the thread - to not take the descriptions and title literally and gain a better understanding of how it looks irl and what it's like to be on the giving / receiving end of that relationship. I didn't want to rule out me being a caregiver because it has a weird name or someone on the internet described ESEs as doormat slaves.

All duality are kind of too far pushed and gross on many level, I don't manage to read those shit. It's like the author liked using the most dysfonctional example possible.
Sometimes, socionics lacks "pretty stuff".

The LSI / EIE example in the article above is the worst example of this. The only description it gives is of an EIE partying so much it makes the LSI jealous and he strangles her???
All your descriptions a great though - and really helpful!

@Adam Strange what you described EXACTLY matches the LIE I know (which makes me pretty confident about that typing). What you said about being straight forward and open about sex is spot on. LIE I knew often said he thought people around him misinterpreted him as creepy when really he just didn't shy away from talking about something he saw as completely natural and everyday. I actually appreciated that because we had a lot of discussions about our difference in perspective, particularly across gendered lines. Quite refreshing actually. A lot of his creepiness, imo, was less the frankness (though many people WOULD think that) but his persistence and inability to call it quits after clear disinterest. Though you are right about clumsiness in how he phrased things / came across. I know someone else (preliminary typing SLE) who says much more inflammatory things but gets away with it because he can read a room / knows how far to push before its too far.

I'd definitely be interested on hearing hag's ESI take on what you described


~dAtInG iS wEiRd~

[Adam Strange]

@mrrrmaid, just the way you phrase sentences and capitalize sounds to me like the SEI whom I work with.

Regarding how the ESI @hag might react to what I described, I think she will find it creepy and inflammatory. That has been a pretty uniform reaction from ESI's (and some others) to my writing about this stuff on the forum. IRL, my duals are more understanding-forgiving-adapting (?) than they are when just reading this stuff. There is a huge difference in the detailed quality of information transfer between real life and internet forums.

[pinkcanary]

If your dual is enneagram 7, they're really scattered and messy, and you want to be nice and help out a little bit. It goes both ways though, he also caregives back, sometimes more than I do for him. He can take care of himself, just not really on top of the little things that need to be done, things that I'm good at and don't care about doing, so the role of caregiving just happens and it's not a big deal.

[The Reality Denialist]

To be honest when LIE goes towards sexual talk I understand the reason why people start to cringe towards it.

[Vespertine]

@lilith iris, I had some pretty strange impressions of my duals from reading the descriptions on the web. It took me a long time to see through the described weirdness and find the essence in the descriptions.

When I did, I realized that my best friend from HS was a dual, and our "duality" "just happened".
When I look at how and why it happened, I'd say that both of us were trying very hard to do something which is very difficult (establish the courses of our lives) and we provided support to each other toward those goals.

If I had to describe him, I'd say he was loyal, super intelligent but didn't think so, seemed kind of awkward around strangers, and had an ironic sense of humor. If he had any bad points, I didn't see them. The only thing that bothered me about him was that he really seemed to believe that he wasn't smart, although it was obvious to me that he was smart. He simply would not self-promote or make claims of greatness, although he did sometimes make oblique fun of some of the cliques at school. (He's now a PhD Astrophysicist.)

That differs somewhat from the standard descriptions, and only partly because I'm fairly dense at personality descriptions.

When I read descriptions, the world becomes populated by monsters.
ESIs have a lot of shit too, I understand why some people might not want to be one.

It seems like types are "ego-monsters" in descriptions, as if they are nothing else then two little functions gone retarded.
It's far from reality. It may be difficult to get to know a dual, yet there is this... something that makes it obvious.
SEE can come off as stupid and shallow, though when they open up and let their inner world be seen it's just...
I mean...
It's that...
I just...
...
Languages prove useless to express anything that matters.

I saw it happen twice.

[Vespertine]

The LSI / EIE example in the article above is the worst example of this. The only description it gives is of an EIE partying so much it makes the LSI jealous and he strangles her???
All your descriptions a great though - and really helpful!

That.is.creepy.as.HELL.
And beats SEE-ILI story of she made him marry an other woman to wreck their wedding... -w-b

Thank you.

[Adam Strange]

I know a blonde female SEE who works as a saleswoman (for commissions, since she's great with customers) in an upscale clothing store. I talked to her at length to try to get a handle on who she is, and I liked what I saw but I kind of wore her out. She clearly needs a logical introvert who doesn't talk as much as I do. She is actually extremely attractive and extremely intelligent (although with her blonde hair and secondary sex characteristics and extremely cheery friendliness, you could mistake her for a dim-witted babe) and she spent a bit amount of time bitching about stupid customers, kind of in the same way that @Capitalist Pig complains sometimes.
I went back recently to buy a bathrobe and was impressed at how intelligent she is. Like, super intelligent.

[Overthinker]

For what it’s worth, my impression is that whoever writes these descriptions (I’m assuming Stratiyevskaya) enjoys taking the piss out of every dual pair and often tells these overly exaggerated ‘anecdotes’ that we perceive as shocking, but are most likely intended to be tongue-in-cheek. At least, that’s what I think - I mean, the cultural barrier cannot be so high, that married couples in Russia run around cheating on and strangling each other, and everyone goes “d’awww, so romantic”, can it? I think that we’re not supposed to take everything they say seriously. Which I kind of dislike, because I wanted serious descriptions, but it seems that’s how Strat decided to roll, unknowingly triggering a number of confused westerners in the process.

Duality descriptions of Alpha and Delta quadra are comparatively tamer, anyway, but still not devoid of a certain disturbing element, at least from my point of view. Like, the other day I was reading an EII-LSE duality description and I could only describe it as, EII completely takes over the entirety of LSE’s mind and soul, emotionally brainwashes him, proceeds to pilot him like a giant robot to establish New World Order of Amazingly Perfect Morality.

The only time the LSE is described as doing something of his own volition is, I think, when it’s mentioned that the LSE sometimes will lash out angrily at people, to which the EII responds by telling him to calm down.

Poor guy doesn’t even get to be angry.

[Vespertine]

I know a blonde female SEE who works as a saleswoman (for commissions, since she's great with customers) in an upscale clothing store. I talked to her at length to try to get a handle on who she is, and I liked what I saw but I kind of wore her out. She clearly needs a logical introvert who doesn't talk as much as I do. She is actually extremely attractive and extremely intelligent (although with her blonde hair and secondary sex characteristics and extremely cheery friendliness, you could mistake her for a dim-witted babe) and she spent a bit amount of time bitching about stupid customers, kind of in the same way that @Capitalist Pig complains sometimes.
I went back recently to buy a bathrobe and was impressed at how intelligent she is. Like, super intelligent.

Pretty sure my sister was SEE.
Who was the straight-A student? Not me.
Who would have believed this upon seeing us side-by-side? No one.

[Simo]

First person who mentions cooking and cleaning up after a manchild husband gets an elbow drop to the face

how about the second person?

[SaveYourself]

how about the second person?

I think you'd be the fourth or fifth by this point.

Idk if maybe I was totally bad at asking what I wanted in my OP but basically @lilith iris got it right with explaining different forms of caregiving. The elbow drop to the face comment was about how I was reading these descriptions over and over and figured there had to be more to caregiving than the mother / manchild* alpha duality descriptions but wasn't really seeing it when digging through the forum.



*Deliberately gendered language because often the assumption is female SF caregiver, male NT infantile - which I'm sure is statistically the probability but the implication of descriptions ALWAYS assuming this show how skewed and narrow they are

[Lord Panda]

First person who mentions cooking and cleaning up after a manchild husband gets an elbow drop to the face

While this is not necessarily appealing to me, I can easily see myself doing this for someone I love. But then again, like @pinkcanary mentioned, I'm not going to forcefully take this role in a relationship. It happens naturally. I am very good at knowing a person's weak spot and adjusting so as to be able to support it.

I don't necessarily see ILE as grown children. I do think they're childish in some ways, and yes, that's part of the appeal of the type to me. The more I can do for my partner, the more I feel appreciated, the happier I am. This is how I personally feel. The caregiving stuff is supposed to be natural. I hate to be made to do stuff for people, but I like being persuaded through emotional means.

Now, I have yet to actually meet an ILE who is completely competent and efficient at housekeeping. If I did, I would not feel the need to take up that role in that case. I definitely do aim to please. If you find this attitude to be repulsive, then I don't think you're an alpha SF type. Though both alpha SF and delta ST are caregivers, I don't think delta STs are as dedicated as alpha SFs are.

[Mila]

If you find this attitude to be repulsive, then I don't think you're an alpha SF type. Though both alpha SF and delta ST are caregivers, I don't think delta STs are as dedicated as alpha SFs are.

[Desert Financial]

I'll take the alpha style.

[WinnieW]

I prefer the alpha style, either, but I can understand the reaction of the delta Si (SLI) person, but on the other side the (SLI) reaction seems irritating to me.
The SEI reaction seems a little bit too accommodating to me.

[Desert Financial]

What kind of caregiving style is expressed here?

[Mila]

I prefer the alpha style, either, but I can't understand the reaction of the delta Si (SLI) person, but on the other side the (SLI) reaction seems irritating to me.
The SEI reaction seems a little bit too accommodating to me.

And next time stand up and get your own blanket, mmkay?

[Desert Financial]

Next time stand up and get your own blanket, mmkay?

D E L T A
E
L
T
A

[WinnieW]

Next time stand up and get your own blanket, mmkay?

LSE-style?

[Mila]

LSE-style?

not really. My LSE dad has never told me something like that.