Socionics Beta types Examples

[Ikite iru]

The timber of his voice is indeed a bit similar to that of Shapiro but his prosody is different, more specifically his speech tempo / elocution speed is slower.

As for his Type, he an Si valuer. Based on my analysis of this video alone I would say Delta>Alpha and IEE>EII but I need more data.

He's probably fearful avoidant 6-is. There is a lot of Fear expressed in that video.

At least from my point of view, most of his videos revolve around him speaking perfect, fluent chinese as a westerner, which fits to my description of Ni as theoretical perfectionism.

[qaz00]

reminds me a lot of Ben Shapiro

He reminds me of you way more than of Shapiro. I see Alpha Fe expressions.

[Ikite iru]

He reminds me of you way more than of Shapiro. I see Alpha Fe expressions.

I see that Shapiro, this guy, and Dylan Mulvaney look very similar with varying degrees of emotional expressions which makes me conclude that people fall into different trait categories and that Fe isn't what socionics describes it to be.

[nifl]

I see that Shapiro, this guy, and Dylan Mulvaney look very similar with varying degrees of emotional expressions which makes me conclude that people fall into different trait categories and that Fe isn't what socionics describes it to be.

Physical appearance has little to do with types. You should notice that they are different in their behaviour, not that basic theory such as Feeling having a direct relation to emotional expression being wrong.
His facial expressions and tonality are significantly more dynamic for me than Shapiro's. Shapiro looks unemotional. I.e. their difference is common and can be related to T-F dichotomy.

[Ikite iru]

Physical appearance has little to do with types. You should notice that they are different in their behaviour, not that basic theory such as Feeling having a direct relation to emotional expression being wrong.
His facial expressions and tonality are significantly more dynamic for me than Shapiro's. Shapiro looks unemotional. I.e. their difference is common and can be related to T-F dichotomy.

who says that physical attributes don't matter? you? socionics claims that visual identification exists and the majority of people here probably base their typings on it. scientific research suggests that people who look similar share the same genes. I think you are just disagreeing because my views contradict established theory which you do not deviate from but I'm just sharing my own observation and if they show that socionics is inaccurate, I share them too. I see the things you are seeing, I am very well aware of them, yet the things I'm seeing also exist.

[godslave]

Emeka Okorafor - EIE

Josh Lavine is IEE-ish (not sure yet). He has a striking resemblance to this dude :

 

[nifl]

Ken/TV SJAELLAND - EIE


The Introverted Thinker - SLE
got the result IEE - perceives herself as LII

[The Reality Denialist]

Ruja Ignatova. Female SLE psychopath, likely

[godslave]

Ruja Ignatova. Female SLE psychopath, likely

She reminds me of Mata Hari (esp her picture at 13:30).

 

[Ikite iru]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Z9QQLsk28

ah you beta NF's. always willing to let people die for your theoretical ideology

[nifl]

Julie/Vild Videnskab i fysik-kemi - IEI, EIE

[godslave]

EIE-ish

I've had a similar idea but It was in the context of a fiction. Of course, I reject the premise of the idea of connection to other quantic/parallel versions of oneself via tuning to their frequency (of course the "How" one would do that is not important !).

To summarize that video in six words, he is basically promoting the good old "Fake it till you make it !" ...

[nifl]

Felisa Wolfe-Simon (2:55) - mb LSI

[fiorale]

Matthew McConaughey winning Best Actor | 86th Oscars (2014)


Matthew McConaughey: EIE



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Hart and Kenan Thompson Can’t Stop Laughing From Viral Video | 2023 Back That Year Up


Kevin Hart: SLE. His laugh is one of the best ways one could use their mobilizing Fe.

[godslave]

I suspect that this person is or was a forum member (don't ask me why !). She self-typed as EII and was typed EIE-NH by Dr.G and his crue.

Her energy reminds me of that of @kuno for some reason. This is her YTC (it's about tamagotchi toys apparently).

Now, would you guys say that this person is EIE or EII like she thought or else ? This is of course a type image related question. I think I should start a thread about that phenomenon but I feel like it would be redundant since there are plenty of example of type threads which incompasses the issue.

Anyway, contrary to what she said, this lady doesn't display a whole lot of Emotions imho. She seems to think that displaying emotions for EIE (in Model G) should always be manifest. It's not necessarily the case and the fact of not displaying emotions all the time itself doesn't automatically disqualify the EIE typing. Indeed, emotions don't need to be displayed for assessing a 4D Fe even by Model G standards (behavioral). But I digress, long live Dr.E !!

[Braingel]

I suspect that this person is or was a forum member (don't ask me why !). She self-typed as EII and was typed EIE-NH by Dr.G and his crue.

Her energy reminds me of that of @kuno for some reason. This is her YTC (it's about tamagotchi toys apparently).

Now, would you guys say that this person is EIE or EII like she thought or else ? This is of course a type image related question. I think I should start a thread about that phenomenon but I feel like it would be redundant since there are plenty of example of type threads which incompasses the issue.

Anyway, contrary to what she said, this lady doesn't display a whole lot of Emotions imho. She seems to think that displaying emotions for EIE (in Model G) should always be manifest. It's not necessarily the case and the fact of not displaying emotions all the time itself doesn't automatically disqualify the EIE typing. Indeed, emotions don't need to be displayed for assessing a 4D Fe even by Model G standards (behavioral). But I digress, long live Dr.E !!

There is honestly not enough information to type her fully, but I sort of see mental Ti role in classical socionics (extreme openness to definitions and systems).. She doesn’t really feel like an Fe dom in most behavioral models.. But if she truly was an eie, I honestly would guess that she disintegrated/shadowed into EII.

I disagree with her that no other system would see through how you see yourself… I mean, it isn’t like SCS and John Beebe are vastly known schools, though.

I am gonna look at her YouTube channel, I found it in the comments of that video.

Ok, I can say right now by classical standard, based on this: https://youtu.be/xAKXeQ8mUL8?si=zvrYZZVDtphTgzRQ

She is not an eie. She has mental Se going on… (Awareness of aesthetic appearances, moving towards these things).. She shows vital ID Fe (expression of personal emotions, “ah this annoying”) basing herself as the central, without others involved “it is annoying to make others wait” would be more mental Fe and Ni (those two functions occurring together at all times in dynamic ego or super ego if not beta NF).

Watching further in, she’s very aware of things like texture and how soft and squishy things are (surface qualities of an object; Se). And “this is cute”, she sort of does this in a general way of what is societally considered as cute, good chance she’s an attachment core which I knew early on, she’s a 9 by that shown feedback video and her adapting to others and doubt (6 and 9)…

She wants to show you what is going on in looks and whatnot.. There is honestly a chance she can be an ESI… But I want to say that I see Fi+ a bit more, expanding with her likes to objects, so EII may be in favor more.

She is an EII by WSS and very likely in SCS.

I sort of see mental Ne very indirectly in her understanding of why the plastic bottles were there, the potential behind why.

There is an absurd amount of mental Se; https://youtu.be/Al4SgE_ayrI?si=gAbbFenf1-U5vD4N


If EII, it’s very likely she was raised around Se egos and they punched in experience of this element in her. I mean, I am an EII in this model and I was raised around all 4D Se, and this woman shows way more development in it than myself, maybe because of my social isolation and my family also being abusive, it stunted my experiential block. I mean, my experience around Se is all mostly unhealthy and abusive, so.. It isn’t like I ever got to really learn its nuance in this area I lack… And it just got me beaten down and up in my trying move towards it.

“Some people say” is a good example of her social comparison block in that, of Se, and she disregards the consensus and goes by what she felt, which is more of a super ego/low dimensionality in scs, but I would say that this also can sometimes just be not being a core attachment type in enneagram, but not in this case, as she’s a 9. (Likely 962).

Yes, she fits “DA cognition” with the irony of her liking link and the “I hate pink” https://youtu.be/pBaFPfcE83I?si=Ou3zHZvp6-iwA1Ip but this is very superficial reasoning to base someone an eie as, there are 4 other types and cognitive styles aren’t a law.

4D Ni awareness of different time zones https://youtu.be/DPkYHnStoNw?si=K24hJQNJQW55ptjx, you can even argue this as a mental trait if Ni, but this is merely one instance.

You notice how she never shows her face other than in the Gulenko feedback and not even fully in her pfp? Could be Se insecurity of appearance, wanting look perfect but not confident in it.. Though she does make videos of things that are easier to film away from her, she could easily have inserted and flipped it.

1:30 Mental Fi and this video shows lots of Fi+ https://youtu.be/Xg6Kxv-3OIo?si=eWG4pVrRcO3q0i8e

The only evidence I see for her being a model G eie is DA cognition and process type as well as central type, but these things aren’t exclusive to eie alone and things like type shifts happen.. I don’t really think she is honestly an eie in G, but she puts herself out there which I guess others interpret as extroversion in that model, which is superficial in my opinion.

I suspect that this person is or was a forum member (don't ask me why !). She self-typed as EII and was typed EIE-NH by Dr.G and his crue.

Her energy reminds me of that of @kuno for some reason. This is her YTC (it's about tamagotchi toys apparently).

Now, would you guys say that this person is EIE or EII like she thought or else ? This is of course a type image related question. I think I should start a thread about that phenomenon but I feel like it would be redundant since there are plenty of example of type threads which incompasses the issue.

Anyway, contrary to what she said, this lady doesn't display a whole lot of Emotions imho. She seems to think that displaying emotions for EIE (in Model G) should always be manifest. It's not necessarily the case and the fact of not displaying emotions all the time itself doesn't automatically disqualify the EIE typing. Indeed, emotions don't need to be displayed for assessing a 4D Fe even by Model G standards (behavioral). But I digress, long live Dr.E !!

There is honestly not enough information to type her fully, but I sort of see mental Ti role in classical socionics (extreme openness to definitions and systems).. She doesn’t really feel like an Fe dom in most behavioral models.. But if she truly was an eie, I honestly would guess that she disintegrated/shadowed into EII.

I disagree with her that no other system would see through how you see yourself… I mean, it isn’t like SCS and John Beebe are vastly known schools, though.

I am gonna look at her YouTube channel, I found it in the comments of that video.

Ok, I can say right now by classical standard, based on this: https://youtu.be/xAKXeQ8mUL8?si=zvrYZZVDtphTgzRQ

She is not an eie. She has mental Se going on… (Awareness of aesthetic appearances, moving towards these things).. She shows vital ID Fe (expression of personal emotions, “ah this annoying”) basing herself as the central, without others involved “it is annoying to make others wait” would be more mental Fe and Ni (those two functions occurring together at all times in dynamic ego or super ego if not beta NF).

Watching further in, she’s very aware of things like texture and how soft and squishy things are (surface qualities of an object; Se). And “this is cute”, she sort of does this in a general way of what is societally considered as cute, good chance she’s an attachment core which I knew early on, she’s a 9 by that shown feedback video and her adapting to others and doubt (6 and 9)…

She wants to show you what is going on in looks and whatnot.. There is honestly a chance she can be an ESI… But I want to say that I see Fi+ a bit more, expanding with her likes to objects, so EII may be in favor more.

She is an EII by WSS and very likely in SCS.

I sort of see mental Ne very indirectly in her understanding of why the plastic bottles were there, the potential behind why.

There is an absurd amount of mental Se; https://youtu.be/Al4SgE_ayrI?si=gAbbFenf1-U5vD4N


If EII, it’s very likely she was raised around Se egos and they punched in experience of this element in her. I mean, I am an EII in this model and I was raised around all 4D Se, and this woman shows way more development in it than myself, maybe because of my social isolation and my family also being abusive, it stunted my experiential block. I mean, my experience around Se is all mostly unhealthy and abusive, so.. It isn’t like I ever got to really learn its nuance in this area I lack… And it just got me beaten down and up in my trying move towards it.

“Some people say” is a good example of her social comparison block in that, of Se, and she disregards the consensus and goes by what she felt, which is more of a super ego/low dimensionality in scs, but I would say that this also can sometimes just be not being a core attachment type in enneagram, but not in this case, as she’s a 9. (Likely 962).

Yes, she fits “DA cognition” with the irony of her liking pink and the “I hate pink” https://youtu.be/pBaFPfcE83I?si=Ou3zHZvp6-iwA1Ip but this is very superficial reasoning to base someone an eie as, there are 4 other types and cognitive styles aren’t a law.

4D Ni awareness of different time zones https://youtu.be/DPkYHnStoNw?si=K24hJQNJQW55ptjx, you can even argue this as a mental trait if Ni, but this is merely one instance.

You notice how she never shows her face other than in the Gulenko feedback and not even fully in her pfp? Could be Se insecurity of appearance, wanting look perfect but not confident in it.. Though she does make videos of things that are easier to film away from her, she could easily have inserted and flipped it.

1:30 Mental Fi and this video shows lots of Fi+ https://youtu.be/Xg6Kxv-3OIo?si=eWG4pVrRcO3q0i8e

The only evidence I see for her being a model G eie is DA cognition and process type as well as central type, but these things aren’t exclusive to eie alone and things like type shifts happen.. I don’t really think she is honestly an eie in G, but she puts herself out there which I guess others interpret as extroversion in that model, which is superficial in my opinion.

I believe that scs and John Beebe generally transfer over into one another but not as a law. I would say in this case, she does have a chance to be a sensor or enfj in beebe.. Because she appears be a Pe placement of eternal childhood. So she’d be a first case where I wouldn’t class someone in beebe and scs the same. The only way she would fit an scs eie would be if she was shadowed in all the videos she recorded and that wasn’t her actual focus and outlook approach. Or if she’s just around so many Se egos and is like reflecting and mirroring them from her core 9, but I believe that enneagram would show up via the cognitive functions to begin with, the outlooks and where the neurosis is entering in from. They’re the arteries that lead into the heart, brain and rest of body (heart, gut, head).

She recorded these at the same time as well, meaning that you’d be observing the lens of the two systems simultaneously.. So.. She can’t just be healthy and unhealthy both in them. To understand why she is so focused on Se would be the key to unlock the full door. But my own diagnostic of her would be SCS eii and potentially a John beebe enfj, if not esfj. Her entire channel is essentially herself in her eternal childhood phase of her ego. *I mean*it is technically possible that this can be Si, I suppose, *IF* her motivation is to preserve a childhood nostalgia or something in a sense of “play”, but I feel you’d see her defense a database of childhood past if that was the case.

I am doing a bit of research on Tomagatchi pets, and apparently they were banned. So it’s possible she’s trying play in a sense of childhood where this got cut short in herself, they’d banned them from schools.

[godslave]

Props to you ! That's a good post and it's well analytically substantiated !

There is honestly not enough information to type her fully, but I sort of see mental Ti role in classical socionics (extreme openness to definitions and systems).. She doesn’t really feel like an Fe dom in most behavioral models.. But if she truly was an eie, I honestly would guess that she disintegrated/shadowed into EII.

I don't know what you mean by "disintegrated/shadowed into EII" there seems to be a mix of enneagram and Jungian concepts. Anyway, I was thinking of a similar possibility in the sense that she would incarnated the Role of an EII or do be be more precise her conceptualisation of the essence of an EII (type image) as an EIE. That would stem from the lack of sense of identity inherent to EIE (Fi ignoring and strong identification with the persona (??)) and a substantial amount of that process would be unconscious.

This Idea in kinda influenced by @Rusal analysis of my case (she typed me EIE) and reminded me of this feature often expressed in that type.

I disagree with her that no other system would see through how you see yourself… I mean, it isn’t like SCS and John Beebe are vastly known schools, though.

Yes, I agree. I've learned to not give importance to that state of fact. I mean people (especially yong and socially active people) don't necessarily have time, will and curiosity to even be aware of the existence of these "schools".

I am gonna look at her YouTube channel, I found it in the comments of that video.

Yes, That's how I found it too ! (I linked it the post about her).

Ok, I can say right now by classical standard, based on this: https://youtu.be/xAKXeQ8mUL8?si=zvrYZZVDtphTgzRQ

She is not an eie. She has mental Se going on… (Awareness of aesthetic appearances, moving towards these things).. She shows vital ID Fe(expression of personal emotions, “ah this annoying”) basing herself as the central, without others involved “it is annoying to make others wait” would be more mental Fe and Ni (those two functions occurring together at all times in dynamic ego or super ego if not beta NF).

Watching further in, she’s very aware of things like texture and how soft and squishy things are (surface qualities of an object; Se). And “this is cute”, she sort of does this in a general way of what is societally considered as cute, good chance she’s an attachment core which I knew early on, she’s a 9 by that shown feedback video and her adapting to others and doubt (6 and 9)…

She wants to show you what is going on in looks and whatnot.. There is honestly a chance she can be an ESI… But I want to say that I see Fi+ a bit more, expanding with her likes to objects, so EII may be in favor more.

She is an EII by WSS and very likely in SCS.

That's pretty good.

She indeed verbalizes a lot of information about these objects and their qualities. She also verbalizes info about how these objects feel in terms of texture comfort etc.. That could be indicative mental S.

As for the vital Fe localised in the ID block, I would say that it's less obvious to me.

Side note, when we pick on emotional expressions and point them out we must not forget that we (the typists in the instance) are the ones who are verbalizing the Fe information and bring it to the awareness of the reader/listener. In other word we must distinguish between our own Fe and the Fe information the subject is verbalizing about the object.

I sort of see mental Ne very indirectly in her understanding of why the plastic bottles were there, the potential behind why.

There is an absurd amount of mental Se; https://youtu.be/Al4SgE_ayrI?si=gAbbFenf1-U5vD4N

Yes indeed, also have you noticed the color matching of her computer keyboard and the tamagotchis ? Implied Si 2d (min but could be higher) but we must be careful because the decoration of her space could have be done by another person..

If EII, it’s very likely she was raised around Se egos and they punched in experience of this element in her. I mean, I am an EII in this model and I was raised around all 4D Se, and this woman shows way more development in it than myself, maybe because of my social isolation and my family also being abusive, it stunted my experiential block. I mean, my experience around Se is all mostly unhealthy and abusive, so.. It isn’t like I ever got to really learn its nuance in this area I lack… And it just got me beaten down and up in my trying move towards it.

You are intuiting !

I'm sorry for what you had to endure, that sucks.

“Some people say” is a good example of her social comparison block in that, of Se, and she disregards the consensus and goes by what she felt, which is more of a super ego/low dimensionality in scs, but I would say that this also can sometimes just be not being a core attachment type in enneagram, but not in this case, as she’s a 9. (Likely 962).

Yes, binging information on the behalf of society is indicative of Mental track (more often than not the Superego Block).
Example here from 0:53 to 0:59 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al4SgE_ayrI

One way to interpret "people are careless" is that from her perspective people don't have the right attitude towards the object they like (Fi) they should take care of these objects but they don't. That's overall Fi information.

Yes, she fits “DA cognition” with the irony of her liking pink and the “I hate pink” https://youtu.be/pBaFPfcE83I?si=Ou3zHZvp6-iwA1Ip but this is very superficial reasoning to base someone an eie as, there are 4 other types and cognitive styles aren’t a law.

In that video she demonstrates a good sense of sensory details esp Si (or Se depending on the school but definitely sensory info).
It is difficult to align that with Si Polr or Brake (Model G) I mean NH sub to explain it doesn't hold water neither in terms of information nor in energy. If @Adam Strange could give us his opinion on this it would be great.

4D Ni awareness of different time zones https://youtu.be/DPkYHnStoNw?si=K24hJQNJQW55ptjx, you can even argue this as a mental trait if Ni, but this is merely one instance.

You notice how she never shows her face other than in the Gulenko feedback and not even fully in her pfp? Could be Se insecurity of appearance, wanting look perfect but not confident in it.. Though she does make videos of things that are easier to film away from her, she could easily have inserted and flipped it.

1:30 Mental Fi and this video shows lots of Fi+ https://youtu.be/Xg6Kxv-3OIo?si=eWG4pVrRcO3q0i8e

Fair enough.

The only evidence I see for her being a model G eie is DA cognition and process type as well as central type, but these things aren’t exclusive to eie alone and things like type shifts happen.. I don’t really think she is honestly an eie in G, but she puts herself out there which I guess others interpret as extroversion in that model, which is superficial in my opinion.

Personally I don't use Reinin dichotomies at all or any mathematical formula that could be deduced by the model structure because human beings are too complex for it to be reflected in reality in such systematic way. therefore I can't rely on them for typing purposes. My position happens to be the same as SSS in that matter but of course people uses what works for them.

As for the "DA cognition" (again "cognitive styles" is a great idea but meh in practice), I failed to see it clearly but to be honest I haven't investigated the subject in depth.

I believe that scs and John Beebe generally transfer over into one another but not as a law. I would say in this case, she does have a chance to be a sensor or enfj in beebe.. Because she appears be a Pe placement of eternal childhood. So she’d be a first case where I wouldn’t class someone in beebe and scs the same. The only way she would fit an scs eie would be if she was shadowed in all the videos she recorded and that wasn’t her actual focus and outlook approach. Or if she’s just around so many Se egos and is like reflecting and mirroring them from her core 9, but I believe that enneagram would show up via the cognitive functions to begin with, the outlooks and where the neurosis is entering in from. They’re the arteries that lead into the heart, brain and rest of body (heart, gut, head).

She recorded these at the same time as well, meaning that you’d be observing the lens of the two systems simultaneously.. So.. She can’t just be healthy and unhealthy both in them. To understand why she is so focused on Se would be the key to unlock the full door. But my own diagnostic of her would be SCS eii and potentially a John beebe enfj, if not esfj. Her entire channel is essentially herself in her eternal childhood phase of her ego. *I mean*it is technically possible that this can be Si, I suppose, *IF* her motivation is to preserve a childhood nostalgia or something in a sense of “play”, but I feel you’d see her defense a database of childhood past if that was the case.

I am doing a bit of research on Tomagatchi pets, and apparently they were banned. So it’s possible she’s trying play in a sense of childhood where this got cut short in herself, they’d banned them from schools.

I'm not familiar enough with Beebe's Model to have a well informed opinion of it. That said, it seems to me that there is more of analytic psychology and Intuition on your part than socionics in this section. That's very interesting though.

Anyway, thank you very much for your time and remarkable analysis.

[Braingel]

Props to you ! That's a good post and it's well analytically substantiated !

I don't know what you mean by "disintegrated/shadowed into EII" there seems to be a mix of enneagram and Jungian concepts. Anyway, I was thinking of a similar possibility in the sense that she would incarnated the Role of an EII or do be be more precise her conceptualisation of the essence of an EII (type image) as an EIE. That would stem from the lack of sense of identity inherent to EIE (Fi ignoring and strong identification with the persona (??)) and a substantial amount of that process would be unconscious.

This Idea in kinda influenced by @Rusal analysis of my case (she typed me EIE) and reminded me of this feature often expressed in that type.



Yes, I agree. I've learned to not give importance to that state of fact. I mean people (especially yong and socially active people) don't necessarily have time, will and curiosity to even be aware of the existence of these "schools".



Yes, That's how I found it too ! (I linked it the post about her).



That's pretty good.

She indeed verbalizes a lot of information about these objects and their qualities. She also verbalizes info about how these objects feel in terms of texture comfort etc.. That could be indicative mental S.

As for the vital Fe localised in the ID block, I would say that it's less obvious to me.

Side note, when we pick on emotional expressions and point them out we must not forget that we (the typists in the instance) are the ones who are verbalizing the Fe information and bring it to the awareness of the reader/listener. In other word we must distinguish between our own Fe and the Fe information the subject is verbalizing about the object.



Yes indeed, also have you noticed the color matching of her computer keyboard and the tamagotchis ? Implied Si 2d (min but could be higher) but we must be careful because the decoration of her space could have be done by another person..



You are intuiting !

I'm sorry for what you had to endure, that sucks.



Yes, binging information on the behalf of society is indicative of Mental track (more often than not the Superego Block).
Example here from 0:53 to 0:59 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al4SgE_ayrI

One way to interpret "people are careless" is that from her perspective people don't have the right attitude towards the object they like (Fi) they should take care of these objects but they don't. That's overall Fi information.



In that video she demonstrates a good sense of sensory details esp Si (or Se depending on the school but definitely sensory info).
It is difficult to align that with Si Polr or Brake (Model G) I mean NH sub to explain it doesn't hold water neither in terms of information nor in energy. If @Adam Strange could give us his opinion on this it would be great.



Fair enough.



Personally I don't use Reinin dichotomies at all or any mathematical formula that could be deduced by the model structure because human beings are too complex for it to be reflected in reality in such systematic way. therefore I can't rely on them for typing purposes. My position happens to be the same as SSS in that matter but of course people uses what works for them.

As for the "DA cognition" (again "cognitive styles" is a great idea but meh in practice), I failed to see it clearly but to be honest I haven't investigated the subject in depth.



I'm not familiar enough with Beebe's Model to have a well informed opinion of it. That said, it seems to me that there is more of analytic psychology and Intuition on your part than socionics in this section. That's very interesting though.

Anyway, thank you very much for your time and remarkable analysis.

Yes, I had taken notice that she matches them and is highly aware of colors.. I mean, she is in a choir, she probably has a lot of Se egos that have guided her and being perfection-focused on her weak point, blows this up..

Shadow/disintegration is something I intuited in socionics via my brief exposure and understanding therein this to scs, and skimming beebe.. I knew before I reflected on myself, that aushura would be describing the unconscious in light and beebe in dark, having contacts with clinical individuals..

So how shadow works is that your shadow starts at the same feeling/thinking/sensing/intuition starting point, but the extroverted or introverted counter, so I as FiNe have FeNi shadow, an NiFe would shadow into NeFi, and so forth. This isn’t all there is to stress flare, there is also the grip state, where your inferior function in 4 model stack would dominate the psyche and use destructively and immaturely.. Then there are loops, but my primary focus is on shadows, as I have fallen into my own, and this is where how I see it, complex ptsd, personality disorder or any otherwise dysfunctional behavior or thinking; disordered processes, are going to show up. In scs, this would equate to the ID and super ego.

One of the shadow archetypes of consciousness, the opposing personality, consists of a cluster of defenses of the self that are used to oppose, rather than one and work with others. The opposing personality fuels the defensive character styles— passive aggressive, paranoid, avoidant and histrionic— we sometimes see in our patients. Deployed internally, this consciousness can end up opposing one’s own best interests in perverse ways.

The shadow is repressed because it is felt to be incomparable with a person’s moral values. It retains, and firm time to time expresses, feelings, motives, desires, and ambitions that the person has long decided are unworthy, because they do not accord with the individual’s idea of how people should feel, let alone behave. Since it is usually not owned as part of the person, the shadow has a great deal of autonomy, which allows it from time to time even to escape repression, so that it can act out the very striving that the ego has rejected as incomparable with its standards.

-p. 58 Energy Patterns in Psychological Type


I later on learnt from Lena, after both her and Karniv (two people in charge of scs) agreed my idea can be right, that Aushura had actually intended there to be shadows in socionics.

Lena’s response to myself (I never got around to reading the link she provided myself):

Oh this is nice! Yes, it's very possible honestly. Let me show you what I mean and why we said we can see it.

Augusta talked about accentuations in The World of Jung:
https://augustaproject.wordpress.com/the-world-of-jung/


She wrote how people can speak from their Super-Ego and to not transfer the potential information (low dimensional one) to kinetic blocks (high dimensional ones). It's unhealthy/neurotic state:https://augustaproject.wordpress.com/the-world-of-jung/
_ _

_ _
Your TIM can get stick in one block. You can see more here:
here:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...t?usp=drivesdk

This is from the SSS book and they talked about distorted and unhealthy state of the Sociotype

I think this might resemble your/Beebe idea somehow

Like the whole thing written by Augusta and SSS

[Braingel]

So in all honestly, it isn’t a shock that behavioral models of socionics try and insist me as beta NF.. I mean, I am shadowed into eie, but I am not an eie. I still would be iei in most western models, because of how the suggestive is defined there, moving towards Se, having a painful time in Te, your suggestive function is actually something you don’t pay attention to or value; it’s 1D and vital/unconscious.

I behave like a beta NF, and it takes knowing the shadow to understand why this behavior occurs, even though it isn’t how I process information. I process with Fi.

Then yes, an IEI cares about Ti more and in classical, it’s an EII that does (ethical types with Fi ego to be clear).

In behavioral and value-based models, a person can be mistyped as their super ego, their shadow, their quasi, etc.. I would argue these three are the most common probably— many people over-identify with their super ego. I believe that the person that has tried typing me SEE is actually an SEI, not SLI, and is over-identified with a Te super ego that projects unto the world, and also their hidden agenda To is rigid and aspires towards, it isn’t as confident like a 4D placement, and it’s even more self-serving than an ID (*super* ID). They base their typings on an ID placement of Fi— their own distance to them relative to their mental Si- sensoric impressions.. There is a nuanced process dynamic and adding things in..

Sol could’ve been something else, I would have to analyze him more, I’d paid minuscule attention. I believe that a few people who have been typed ESI’s in scs are actually Rae’s shadowed into esi.

When I had said I am absolutely right in my “what people don’t understand about socionics” thread, I had meant my intuition about the shadow placements. They were always intended to be in socio, it’s likely aushura didn’t get to it with an untimely death. And more experimentation needed. In my eyes, Beebe did the work for her and for Jung. His ego blocks go right into aushura and complement health manifestations.

[Ikite iru]

does every thread have to be flooded with this stuff now?

[godslave]

Yes, I had taken notice that she matches them and is highly aware of colors.. I mean, she is in a choir, she probably has a lot of Se egos that have guided her and being perfection-focused on her weak point, blows this up..

Shadow/disintegration is something I intuited in socionics via my brief exposure and understanding therein this to scs, and skimming beebe.. I knew before I reflected on myself, that aushura would be describing the unconscious in light and beebe in dark, having contacts with clinical individuals..

Interesting indeed !

So how shadow works is that your shadow starts at the same feeling/thinking/sensing/intuition starting point, but the extroverted or introverted counter, so I as FiNe have FeNi shadow, an NiFe would shadow into NeFi, and so forth. This isn’t all there is to stress flare, there is also the grip state, where your inferior function in 4 model stack would dominate the psyche and use destructively and immaturely.. Then there are loops, but my primary focus is on shadows, as I have fallen into my own, and this is where how I see it, complex ptsd, personality disorder or any otherwise dysfunctional behavior or thinking; disordered processes, are going to show up. In scs, this would equate to the ID and super ego.

One of the shadow archetypes of consciousness, the opposing personality, consists of a cluster of defenses of the self that are used to oppose, rather than one and work with others. The opposing personality fuels the defensive character styles— passive aggressive, paranoid, avoidant and histrionic— we sometimes see in our patients. Deployed internally, this consciousness can end up opposing one’s own best interests in perverse ways.

The shadow is repressed because it is felt to be incomparable with a person’s moral values. It retains, and firm time to time expresses, feelings, motives, desires, and ambitions that the person has long decided are unworthy, because they do not accord with the individual’s idea of how people should feel, let alone behave. Since it is usually not owned as part of the person, the shadow has a great deal of autonomy, which allows it from time to time even to escape repression, so that it can act out the very striving that the ego has rejected as incomparable with its standards.


-p. 58 Energy Patterns in Psychological Type

Thanks for the explanation. I am familiar with the fact that Beebe has structured his model using some "archetypes' names and made them correspond to that of the MBTI names and incidentally its structure. It has been a long time since I looked at his model, as a matter of fact I had an issue with the nomenclature at the time because to me these names had symbolic meanings instead of functional. I thought it didn't make sense. Now, years later I have a better idea as to why that didn't make sense in the first place. It has to do with the very structure of Jung's Model of psyche which is impossible to conceptualize as a in a linear, flat and static structure.

That's the reason why Aushra used Freud's Model instead of that of Jung (too complex). That's why it is difficult to translate Archetypes and their integration in the process of individuation within an 8 function model. Beebe made a huge mistake by confounding or fusioning some of theses archetypes with cognitive Functions and Anti-Function (let's call them like that !). Consequently it is very difficult if not impossible to make a solid equivalence between Jung's Archetypes -> Beebe ->Socionics.

Even Dr.G tried to make that equivalence but the Super-Ego and the ID are from the Freudian Paradigm and even if Jung was of course a Freudian, he has departed from Freud's paradigm and created his own paradigm namely the Jungian Psychology / Analytic Psychology. The Jungian conceptualization of the Psyche is different from that of Freud, Aushra conceptualization of the Psyche is different from that of both Freud and Jung.

I am aware of the Grip and Loops, that's as far as I know MBTI stuff (could be a Beebe Idea idk) . I kinda let go of MBTI when I discovered socionics.

I later on learnt from Lena, after both her and Karniv (two people in charge of scs) agreed my idea can be right, that Aushura had actually intended there to be shadows in socionics.

Lena’s response to myself (I never got around to reading the link she provided myself):

She probably couldn't for the same reason I've just talked about.

[necrosebud]

What’s with the relation between choir and se egos

asking cuz I was in one for two years in high school

[Braingel]

Interesting indeed !



Thanks for the explanation. I am familiar with the fact that Beebe has structured his model using some "archetypes' names and made them correspond to that of the MBTI names and incidentally its structure. It has been a long time since I looked at his model, as a matter of fact I had an issue with the nomenclature at the time because to me these names had symbolic meanings instead of functional. I thought it didn't make sense. Now, years later I have a better idea as to why that didn't make sense in the first place. It has to do with the very structure of Jung's Model of psyche which is impossible to conceptualize as a in a linear, flat and static structure.

That's the reason why Aushra used Freud's Model instead of that of Jung (too complex). That's why it is difficult to translate Archetypes and their integration in the process of individuation within an 8 function model. Beebe made a huge mistake by confounding or fusioning some of theses archetypes with cognitive Functions and Anti-Function (let's call them like that !). Consequently it is very difficult if not impossible to make a solid equivalence between Jung's Archetypes -> Beebe ->Socionics.

Even Dr.G tried to make that equivalence but the Super-Ego and the ID are from the Freudian Paradigm and even if Jung was of course a Freudian, he has departed from Freud's paradigm and created his own paradigm namely the Jungian Psychology / Analytic Psychology. The Jungian conceptualization of the Psyche is different from that of Freud, Aushra conceptualization of the Psyche is different from that of both Freud and Jung.

I am aware of the Grip and Loops, that's as far as I know MBTI stuff (could be a Beebe Idea idk) . I kinda let go of MBTI when I discovered socionics.




She probably couldn't for the same reason I've just talked about.

Mm, it is more that beebe focused too much on one angle of the placements, not the healthier version of a shadow, not the more dysfunctional ego structure, though, the ego would be the most mature medium in which a person approaches the world, it just would be those things can filter in and cause actions taken from those internalized means, resulting in atypical behavior..

Consequently, Aushura defined a few placements in a different outlook of health. Health is indeed dynamic, the cognitive functions reflect natural processes I’ve noticed, can elaborate later.

[Braingel]

What’s with the relation between choir and se egos

asking cuz I was in one for two years in high school

I don’t know if you mean this as a pattern or my commentary on that woman having been influenced.. Se is more aware of aesthetical premises, but choir can take other forms than of merely Se.. I just was saying that she probably had had people around her that probably made her more sensitive to sounds, affectivity with them, and this sort.

[necrosebud]

Yeah I skimmed your analysis of her and just noticed that part among others so maybe it missed it

[Braingel]

A person does need grow beyond their ego block to be a well-rounded individual. It is just the most competent placement a person has, the least neurotic. But lesser confident places can mask them and the ego block can be used to meet needs and engage the world in dysfunctional ways, as it is where a person most naturally orients.