My case for SCS and John Beebe in a highly traumatized person

[Braingel]

People develop defenses to guard their essence, and ways to feed and preserve its inner integrity, which can often result in behaviors that are incongruent with someone’s inherent lens and way of processing. For a person to type by what is observably behavioral and present in someone’s surface, you are looking at the shell, and not inner core of the traumatized crab that has hidden away from the harsh seas that have given it only violence.

John Beebe is easily the best model for a highly traumatized person, because the shadow zone is where neurosis shows. Mostly, in the oppositional placement. This is why I have been typed an eie by 98% of the community at some point, even by my now closest friends who realize this a false typing for me, and why 40-50% of the community still has me in its way.

SCS doesn’t deal with neurosis quite as much, it would probably assume the super ego is more neurotic, which is also apart of the shadow, to be clear.. It can expand on how the ignoring function is defined.. I view the ignoring sort of as the repressed function that carries and harbors a lot of stress from this repulsion of its element, and it’s dammed off by the conscious, as it is “too much” for it to bear, and it can rise up and scream louder than any function, when the flood gate opens and spills into the psyche, blinding the ego (primary functions), and unconsciously spilling into the world, but in tidal floods..

SCS is in my view, aligned with Beebe, at least 90% of cases would transfer over in that model, by my skimmings of Beebe literature.. SCS yearns look at why for one’s behavior and functions, it looks at where the tensions are inside, and how the process and dialogue unfolds..

This is extremely important for a traumatized person, who will shell their inherent self with enough trauma, and develop defensively used functions..

The ignoring should also be an inherently stressful function in my view, because even though it has potency not afar from the less in dimensionality, it opposes the inherent energy flow of the leading, primary process information channels in. It would conflict the psyche in the extro and introverted pull of this dynamic, where it is a primary feeler, intuitor, thinker or sensor, but it cannot simultaneously focus introverted and extroverted.. And it can be a sore spot when this lack of focus in this way an ego has identified with otherwise, bleeds up..

I don’t believe that every ignored function placement shows up how I entailed with my own insights of this and how Beebe views it a bit, but in a neurotic person who has developed defenses with it, where it becomes more hasty and aggressively unable to control and repress, from tensions. It is the unconscious of the person’s leading conscious process. It is the leading faculty of the unconscious, and the unconscious I feel is where trauma stores in.

This is where +/- charges can get interesting, as the ignoring is the opposite intro and extro and charge of the base. Inherent conflicting end eh h, aligned with an ego, the unconscious is.

[Braingel]

Key quotations of shadow works in John Beebe (all from which are written in his book, Energy Patterns in Psychological Type)

One of the shadow archetypes of consciousness, the opposing personality, consists of a cluster of defenses of the self that are used to oppose, rather than one and work with others. The opposing personality fuels the defensive character styles— passive aggressive, paranoid, avoidant and histrionic— we sometimes see in our patients. Deployed internally, this consciousness can end up opposing one’s own best interests in perverse ways.

-p. 58

The shadow is repressed because it is felt to be incomparable with a person’s moral values. It retains, and firm time to time expresses, feelings, motives, desires, and ambitions that the person has long decided are unworthy, because they do not accord with the individual’s idea of how people should feel, let alone behave. Since it is usually not owned as part of the person, the shadow has a great deal of autonomy, which allows it from time to time even to escape repression, so that it can act out the very striving that the ego has rejected as incomparable with its standards.

-p. 58

When the trickster appears out of the psyche of a patient, its calling card is usually a display of the archetype’s capacity to put both others and oneself in a double bind (Beebe, 1981, p. 38). The patron divinity of alchemy, the wily Roman god Mercurius, is often referred to as duplex and his main characteristic is duplicity” (Jung, 1948/1967, p. 217). Contemporary men who have aligned their survival with the trickster archetype can be quite duplicitous when nothing their psychotherapists to support personal choices that are, in fact, highly untherapuetic. The analytical therapist will want to recognize that the trickster is operating in the patient, but that is not enough. The therapist will have to have integrated enough trickster of his or her own to be able to turn the double bind around and reverse the terms of the hard bargain that the trickster in the patient is trying to drive.

-p. 57

A man identified with the trickster archetype is anything but sincere and vulnerable. The archetypal thrust of the trickster’s restless energy is to resist having to do things the way others think is right. The trickster toys with expectations, flouting rules that attempt to uphold standards of behavior and questioning the values of those who defend the standards (Radin, 1972).

-p. 56

This will repeat a bit, but I am not going to add it to the quote with repression, as I want that to standalone as its own thing to emphasize a point, a point how it fits “ignoring”.

The shadow

With his deceptions, manipulations, and rule flouting, the trickster can be an effective archetypal force for self-defense in a dangerous world, but his is not the only available approach. Sometimes we fend off threats by pulling rank, by identifying and pointing out the opponent’s weakness, with chilling, withering remarks. This is the bailiwick of the senex archetype— the critical, saturnine, old man, who metaphorically speaking, paces up and down inside each of us, waiting for his chance to put troublesome people in their place. Or we may respond to perceived danger in still make unconscious ways, undermining and devastating a potential enemy through actions, formulations, and revelations that are nearly as surprising and unexplained to us as to others. This is the work of a part personality, or archetype, that I call the demonic personality. Or finally. /3 may defend ourselves through avoidant or passive-aggressive actions including seduction, of through direct attack, the realm of what I call the opposing personality. These four archetypes— trickster, senex, demonic personality, and opposing personality— comprise, in my judgment, the cast of characters that make up the enormous region of individual personality that is repressed by most people— what Jung called the shadow.

The shadow is repressed because it is felt to be incompatible with a person’s moral values. It retains, and from time to time expresses, feelings, motives, desires, and ambitions that the person has long since decided are unworthy, because they do not accord with the individual’s idea of how people should feel, let alone behave.
Since it usuallt is not owned as part of the person, the shadow has a great deal of autonomy, which allows it from time to time even to escape repression, so that it can act out the very striving that the ego has rejected as incompatible with its standards. I have found it helpful to think of the shadow as the ‘ego-dystonic’ part of our consciousness. Just as the ‘ego-syntonic’ personality will develop over time, so too does the shadow develop in the course of life, differentiating itself in ways that are decidedly contrary to the ideals associated with the ego’s usual identity.
The types of consciousness deployed by the shadow are precisely the ones not preferred by the ego-syntonic parts of the personality. For example, in a person for whom extroverted thinking predominates, introverted thinking will be in the shadow.

[Braingel]

As I had said in another thread, the oppositional function in beebe really befits an ID placement (which it would be), because it is self-serving and isn’t based on societal comparison, and it attacks and spites others for its own gain and egoistic need.

All of Beebe’s placements fit SCS ego blocks for the most part, in how I intuit ego placements at least (haven’t read them, just going by my ideas).. The demon and trickster as super ego, the hidden agenda as super ID, the ignoring and demo ID as oppositional and witch as ID.. I have my own interpretations on demon as a symbolism.. with masquerading.. But also the ego blocks for the hero and good parent..

Key quotations of shadow works in John Beebe (all from which are written in his book, Energy Patterns in Psychological Type)

-p. 58



-p. 58





-p. 57


-p. 56

This will repeat a bit, but I am not going to add it to the quote with repression, as I want that to standalone as its own thing to emphasize a point, a point how it fits “ignoring”.

Basically in this, I can use Fe and Ni less healthfully (though the Ni isn’t as distressing), and the super egoic functions— Ti and Se can also be very, very in me, toxic. I would say the most observable neurosis in my function block is Fe. It is why I get mistyped Fe ego..

My neurotic functions in beebe would be enfj 4 stack ones—Fe-Ni-Se-Ti.

The reason a model like WSS and G/SHS suck, are that behaviors do not reflect how someone digests information (informational metabolism) all the time. These are literally all on the basis of behavior, and leave highly complex cases with mental disorders like cptsd and personality disorders or even outright neurodiversity like autism, and just trauma in general, very likely to be mistyped from how they actually digest information and inform views in their own self. Even the placement of these functions has a role in where the neurosis shows up, but functions defined from an observable behavior are always going to look past these placements as their own working organs interacting with others as an organ system, are just looking at the blood, the excretion of waste (feces, vomit).. It assumes where the pathology roots and treats the pathology as the literal personality, assuming that only an X personality would develop this way, without a nuanced understanding of how factors overtime and other potentialities that interact with one’s essence capacities of evolution can result in an outwardly different presented behavior from the intra psyche, which is where cognitive functions operate; in brain processes that are INSIDE.

In this way, these systems are actually dehumanizing and ableist to be trying type what actually are disorders like they define a person’s personality, without any sensitivity to view what it takes for that behavior, and just acts like a person’s illness and toxic traits are “who they are”.

In essence, those models don’t look at the placement of these dynamics relative to a person’s psyche, and just type by what pours out the most, what spurts blood and stains out, or by what most fixates on, when there are factors outside of typology like ocd and autism that for one, cause fixation (that would probably mostly affect mental functions, an aushura term.. But even then, unconscious fixations also happen, especially in a case of trauma. And OCD often has links to complex ptsd.

The reason a model like WSS and G/SHS suck, are that behaviors do not reflect how someone digests information (informational metabolism) all the time. These are literally all on the basis of behavior, and leave highly complex cases with mental disorders like cptsd and personality disorders or even outright neurodiversity like autism, and just trauma in general, very likely to be mistyped from how they actually digest information and inform views in their own self. Even the placement of these functions has a role in where the neurosis shows up, but functions defined from an observable behavior are always going to look past these placements as their own working organs interacting with others as an organ system, are just looking at the blood, the excretion of waste (feces, vomit).. It assumes where the pathology roots and treats the pathology as the literal personality, assuming that only an X personality would develop this way, without a nuanced understanding of how factors overtime and other potentialities that interact with one’s essence capacities of evolution can result in an outwardly different presented behavior from the intra psyche, which is where cognitive functions operate; in brain processes that are INSIDE.

In this way, these systems are actually dehumanizing and ableist to be trying type what actually are disorders like they define a person’s personality, without any sensitivity to view what it takes for that behavior, and just acts like a person’s illness and toxic traits are “who they are”.

It’s ableist, because it just puts a person to a “difficult” personality type, generally, it’s an EIE or an ILI or sometimes an SEE, but not as often, because it gets put to negativism— which literally in model G, means a person that causes more complexity, but students have applied it and said literally, that it implies a “more difficult person” to be around.. But the SEE can happen with “4D Fe- and Se+ show). It puts the responsibility on a person’s inherent character and overlooks the actual process and essence, when potentialities within a person interact with environmental means that can evoke various processes in that inherent potential, that give in and make that activate and present. And so to type by presentation, you will have that activated process typed as.

Whilst any type can be ableist, including intuitive types, and even the whole ego switch focuses, I can see how ableism may be more likely amid Se, from focusing in on what can see, and not the deeper dynamics of the disorders working, and how they develop and the inherent potentials of what a person can and cannot help.

[Muira]

@Braingel


Doesn't mental disorders affect behavioral aspects and how one process the world? How does that not affect sociotype?

[Braingel]

@Braingel


Doesn't mental disorders affect behavioral aspects and how one process the world? How does that not affect sociotype?

Socio type affects the likelihood of certain things.. Say that a person is put into an abusive environment. Their functions would affect what information is internalized and registered.. Once this becomes too much, and begins to clog their digestive track, it will explode, and force up behavior and jade and tarnish the outlook of the inherent lens.. There are certain things that are beyond the scope of behavior, and the type that person is affects which defensive processes arise (beebe), but you can’t type that by behavior.

@Braingel


Doesn't mental disorders affect behavioral aspects and how one process the world? How does that not affect sociotype?

Because if you focus on too much on the behavior, like model G, and like WSS do.. this is how you end in a case as my own, an EII, being typed as an EIE.. Basing on my Fe neurosis and show, because it is strong and reveals itself often. You’d have look at the psychology behind my Fe. Then you’d understand the behaviors of it, that it’s not even good, is defensive.. Then you can accurately interpret the behavior. A very perceptive person would be able to tell this isn’t my base function or that it isn’t 4D, due to how it only shows under stress.. But how many people would you say are perceptive enough?

Every function has its own psychology relative to a placement.. It isn’t as if strength of a function or weakness of it, dictate a placement at all times.. Health truly matters in this case.. The issue is that people give out typings, assuming that a person is in the health capacity of what that model is designed for. Model G isn’t designed for neurosis.. Naranjo is designed for neurosis, and people often get typed things in that system, as if they are neurotic, even when they aren’t, and thus get mistyped. As Naranjo types pathologize at lines.

So yes, behavior speaks to where a function is, but most models are literally typing just by what puts out the male and by blanket behaviors, and never even the psychology behind the functions to begin with. Psychological systems paired with behavior works.

Like, I’ve literally just been typed an eie, because I am “dramatic” and put out negative emotions.. Ok? How does this have anything to do with directly how I process and view things. Qaz00 has tried type me an “extrovert”, because I am viscerally reactive.. And ok, why do you think I am reactive, as in, what do you think it took for me to get to be this way? Because it took years for me to develop this response to abuse and severe bullying, including physical..

These metrics used to type me say absolutely nothing about my actual cognition and inherent energy focus— or of why to begin with, I focus on certain elements so much (devoid of mental and vital track for starters, which is absolutely huge for a lot of means, but it isn’t complete either). These are developments from my environment resulting in neurosis, which is in the scope of enneagram and somewhat John beebe.. But beebe more is about the inherent functions one has and is predisposed to tap into under neurotic psychological states. Enneagram is about a specific temperament that is likely genetic, and a pool of possibilities, in my view, for how this can end up shaping a person, relative to the environment they’re handed in, and how that molds the temperament within those pool of types…

Qaz tried say I fixate on intuitive elements.. Well, I would fixate a lot, because I am an intuitive type and have autism spectrum disorder with complex PTSD that features ocd (and have a physical health condition that damages brain and also results in fixation), so my mental elements (Fi, Ne, Ti and Se) will indeed fixate on a lot.. But I fixate way more on Si, Ti and Se… Than I do on my healthier used ego functions, which aren’t as neurotic. My Fe isn’t really a fixation, but it is where all my dysfunction shoots out in loud behavior and is a lot less controllable. My fixation is going to show up a lot in my mental elements… But as far as my unconscious fixation with Si, this may have do with being traumatized and just super ID.

Autism is quite literally defined by an intense preoccupation with specialized interests… Well, my special interests are going to mostly theme around my mental functions and unconscious desires, of course. Si is an unconscious desire for me..

As you can see, I fixate a fuck ton on Si, and it drives people absolutely insane:https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...b8ac0d6db669c&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...fa6aa8eac27ea&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...baacd039f2a8e&
this is why I felt that I could have mental super ego Si partially, and because I do not discriminate Si info and absorb it in, no filter. But 2D element in general works, and it’s not like I’m vastly conscious of Si beyond certain fantasies and asd interests with it. My autism probably makes it look pseudo super ego.

I just can get fixated on general.. Because of the autism with ocd features and the cptsd dynamics (would probably show up more in unconscious functions for this), and with my physical condition that damaged my brain from repeated infections in my formative years and circle-jerk wired hyper-focus.


I can’t even help my fixation. It’s my brain wiring, both genetically, and added in with chronic infection brain damage (PANDAS— pediatric autoimmune neurological disorders associated with streptococcal infections).. My fixation is as extreme as it can be on anyone, unrelated to functions directly, though, it will probably blow up in mental functions a lot more. And yes, my autism symptoms developed before I ever had strep.. I got diagnosed with autism at 8, but I had signs present from infancy and on. PANDAS can mimic autism, but in my case, I just both have that and had repeated infections to where to this day, they still show in my blood. Then add in all my trauma and abuse history, and cptsd already causes ocd-like behavior, and you’ve extreme autism aggravated fixation.

You can say that most socionics is too interpersonal.. when intrapersonal mechanisms influence those interpersonal outputs to begin with..

[necrosebud]

I don’t think that’s what Fe even is based on any legit source (including wikisocion) so it doesn’t make sense to give that typing methods any credibility

it’s not “I am a logical type with likely problems who doesn’t understand complex people so I will just call it histrionics and Fe” or whatever variation on a similar theme (I’m not really sorry for saying this, it has bugged me for a while now)

it’s external manifestation/excitation and ability to influence (in terms of emotions)

poor mental health is not “Fe”

so if there’s legit anybody typing like this it cannot be taken seriously.

[Braingel]

I don’t think that’s what Fe even is based on any legit source (including wikisocion) so it doesn’t make sense to give that typing methods any credibility

it’s not “I am a logical type with likely problems who doesn’t understand complex people so I will just call it histrionics and Fe” or whatever variation on a similar theme (I’m not really sorry for saying this, it has bugged me for a while now)

it’s external manifestation/excitation and ability to influence (in terms of emotions)

poor mental health is not “Fe”

so if there’s legit anybody typing like this it cannot be taken seriously.

I’ve had tons of model G people type me as an eie based on the premise of me being dramatic and “Fe- negative emotionality” display.

[Braingel]

You’re correct, it is not what Fe is in essence, but this is one of the “key” type images of an eie that G looks for to type an eie… and that his students do.. When I said that G replaces Ne with Se, I wasn’t kidding. Read any description in his book he’s written, and it’s exceedingly Se. I’ll give you such an example:

Since it doesn’t let me copy and paste, I will just provide a screen shot then: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a83d716b55a0e&
His entire book is virtually behavioral ,shallow surface-observed traits and qualities had in a person, and their physical movements and physiognomy, and his whole “type image” bs is as Se as it gets.

[Braingel]

I’ve had tons of model G people type me as an eie based on the premise of me being dramatic and “Fe- negative emotionality” display.

This has mostly occurred on discord by SHS/model G paid Gulenko course students

Then even when it isn’t with that reason, it’s always with some other shallow, vague reason that doesn’t even relate to functions. Wvbry typing me an eie here:

Yeah, I agree that classical socionics theory got alot of things wrong, still, Trump, Mike Tyson, and Northstar all seem like bulldogs in character and in their facial expressions body language, which is a trait I associate with lead Se. I tend to type in socionics mostly using SHS approach, where IEI is a very soft type. Gruff people like Northstar as IEI is extremely unlikely from that pov to say the least.

As far as you being an introvert goes, I agree those traits speak more to introversion, but this can be accentuated in EIEs by having a distant subtype or an accentuated Ni funtion. It's typical not to speak to many people when travelling alone, regardless of type. Spending weeks not talking to anyone could be due to a strong Ni accentuiation. The function creates eccentric hermits when accentuated, including in EIEs. You seem rather talkative when it comes to your centers of interest, like you said, but this doesn't mean you are an introvert. I am rarely very talkative about my interests, even things I'm very passionate about. You seem expansive in this area. I see similar traits in Braingel, who I think is EIE with an Ni accentuation. But since you are using a different type images, than I do, I realize EIE might seem wrong to you, and that's fair.Yeah, I agree that classical socionics theory got alot of things wrong, still, Trump, Mike Tyson, and Northstar all seem like bulldogs in character and in their facial expressions body language, which is a trait I associate with lead Se. I tend to type in socionics mostly using SHS approach, where IEI is a very soft type. Gruff people like Northstar as IEI is extremely unlikely from that pov to say the least.

As far as you being an introvert goes, I agree those traits speak more to introversion, but this can be accentuated in EIEs by having a distant subtype or an accentuated Ni funtion. It's typical not to speak to many people when travelling alone, regardless of type. Spending weeks not talking to anyone could be due to a strong Ni accentuiation. The function creates eccentric hermits when accentuated, including in EIEs. You seem rather talkative when it comes to your centers of interest, like you said, but this doesn't mean you are an introvert. I am rarely very talkative about my interests, even things I'm very passionate about. You seem expansive in this area. I see similar traits in Braingel, who I think is EIE with an Ni accentuation. But since you are using a different type images, than I do, I realize EIE might seem wrong to you, and that's fair.

It is always some BS justification that I just have extremely developed Ni and Ti, even Qaz in his Bs SEE typing which is a first, did this. Model G just literally invented accentuations mostly to justify Gulenko’s shit physical observations that take away from essence. And this is a wrong basis to even begin with. Writing a lot of shit online doesn’t make someone “talkative”. Literally with autism, it’s like the only way to socialize. Special interest dumps. That behavior also fits withdrawn triad well with social, which would “archetypically” be introverted..

He even says “he sees”. What you see isn’t always how someone is, and what you see doesn’t even mean you accurately interpret the root.

You’re correct, it is not what Fe is in essence, but this is one of the “key” type images of an eie that G looks for to type an eie… and that his students do.. When I said that G replaces Ne with Se, I wasn’t kidding. Read any description in his book he’s written, and it’s exceedingly Se. I’ll give you such an example:

Since it doesn’t let me copy and paste, I will just provide a screen shot then: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a83d716b55a0e&
His entire book is virtually behavioral ,shallow surface-observed traits and qualities had in a person, and their physical movements and physiognomy, and his whole “type image” bs is as Se as it gets.

He does this in vast, confident detail, even says, “this is how we confidently identify”.. This is high dimensionality Se. Immense detail and nuanced Se info, and with confidence. Gulenko is not and never will be in this life, an intuitive type. I get that he expanded socionics and provided immense “potential”s, but he did this from his Ne aspirational super ego, which he wants master, but he can’t even do it without replacement of it via his Se. The creative function is what compensates the polr. Just like aushura compensated her shit Fi with Ti systemization for ITR.

It is the opposite of intuition. I have Ne in my ego, so I know how to accurately perceive info with this element.. And can critique his “Ne” tries. Other people who believe this is Ne are probably either Se polr their own self or they are like Se role, and can’t distinguish Se info well.

The whole “he expanded socionics” is a lack of understanding of Ne to begin with and is a surface stereotype of Ne. Both Se and Ne expand (as Pe, pushing out without limit determination), but Se does so with concrete, observed things— facts, observable info, in physically explorable places, and Ne does it with concepts and hidden potentials. Yes, he expanded “concepts”, but in a sensory way he added to it to replace his ineptitude in Ne with his strong Se.

Basically, static types who have an Se creative or role will not be able to understand very easily, that Gulenko’s way of writing that info and making his system is Se and not Ne. Se can’t in a creative placement, because it believes its own Ne is good and approaches Ne from De itself. The ILE and IEE will not be able to tell that’s Se easily, because they can’t really discern Se things accurately, and yet are very open to it, its own self. They may be unable to separate their Ne from the Se..

Whereas if I was unaware of typology, I would be mistaking my inner soul essence process ideas and the potentials of sensory means as “Se”, which I have done. I’d be mistaking my Ne ideas for drawing as Se aesthetic.. Not aware of how many surface details have go into it all.. I would continue to mistake my potentials and idealizations to take action as “taking action”. I’ve literally viewed in the past, me writing things on paper, and me reading things and making my own ideas as “physical action”. Rationalized it’s my mind moving with a physical process of generating synapses (which is an unseen/hidden process that isn’t observable and thus more Ne ish).. An immature outlook of it, because I was expanding my possibilities for the future and preparing for my future and developing the mental qualities needed. I mean I still view it as someone action, but I literally called it physical action in the form of energy movement. Which is energy potential/Ne. I think of things “I can do” that always happen mentally without action. I aspire to be physical, and yet cannot be.. I mistake my potentials of things as action and physical presence and replace my ineptitude in physical valor and will with Ne.

I would be mistaking my internal self as how I look outwardly, which I also have done a fuck ton. Heck, this even fits autism theory of mind deficit well.. I confuse my potentialities and inherent essence with how I look outside, and it’s gotten me poorly viewed before. My image (enneagram) cultivates from within… And I react when others do not see this image I’ve of myself and of my essence.. Which is why I’ve always said 4 is > introverted than extro, because it’s based on the internally identified with self into an image, not on external factors as much, but some things can envy and internalize in, as well.

Yes, for the Ne replacing Se, this is me intuiting how it is for myself, relative to how the Ne and Se define in SCs

Like, I’ve literally just been typed an eie, because I am “dramatic” and put out negative emotions.. Ok? How does this have anything to do with directly how I process and view things. Qaz00 has tried type me an “extrovert”, because I am viscerally reactive.. And ok, why do you think I am reactive, as in, what do you think it took for me to get to be this way? Because it took years for me to develop this response to abuse and severe bullying, including physical..

These metrics used to type me say absolutely nothing about my actual cognition and inherent energy focus— or of why to begin with, I focus on certain elements so much (devoid of mental and vital track for starters, which is absolutely huge for a lot of means, but it isn’t complete either). These are developments from my environment resulting in neurosis, which is in the scope of enneagram and somewhat John beebe.. But beebe more is about the inherent functions one has and is predisposed to tap into under neurotic psychological states. Enneagram is about a specific temperament that is likely genetic, and a pool of possibilities, in my view, for how this can end up shaping a person, relative to the environment they’re handed in, and how that molds the temperament within those pool of types…

Qaz tried say I fixate on intuitive elements.. Well, I would fixate a lot, because I am an intuitive type and have autism spectrum disorder with complex PTSD that features ocd (and have a physical health condition that damages brain and also results in fixation), so my mental elements (Fi, Ne, Ti and Se) will indeed fixate on a lot.. But I fixate way more on Si, Ti and Se… Than I do on my healthier used ego functions, which aren’t as neurotic. My Fe isn’t really a fixation, but it is where all my dysfunction shoots out in loud behavior and is a lot less controllable. My fixation is going to show up a lot in my mental elements… But as far as my unconscious fixation with Si, this may have do with being traumatized and just super ID.

Autism is quite literally defined by an intense preoccupation with specialized interests… Well, my special interests are going to mostly theme around my mental functions and unconscious desires, of course. Si is an unconscious desire for me..

As you can see, I fixate a fuck ton on Si, and it drives people absolutely insane:https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...b8ac0d6db669c&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...fa6aa8eac27ea&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...baacd039f2a8e&
this is why I felt that I could have mental super ego Si partially, and because I do not discriminate Si info and absorb it in, no filter. But 2D element in general works, and it’s not like I’m vastly conscious of Si beyond certain fantasies and asd interests with it. My autism probably makes it look pseudo super ego.

I just can get fixated on general.. Because of the autism with ocd features and the cptsd dynamics (would probably show up more in unconscious functions for this), and with my physical condition that damaged my brain from repeated infections in my formative years and circle-jerk wired hyper-focus.


I can’t even help my fixation. It’s my brain wiring, both genetically, and added in with chronic infection brain damage (PANDAS— pediatric autoimmune neurological disorders associated with streptococcal infections).. My fixation is as extreme as it can be on anyone, unrelated to functions directly, though, it will probably blow up in mental functions a lot more. And yes, my autism symptoms developed before I ever had strep.. I got diagnosed with autism at 8, but I had signs present from infancy and on. PANDAS can mimic autism, but in my case, I just both have that and had repeated infections to where to this day, they still show in my blood. Then add in all my trauma and abuse history, and cptsd already causes ocd-like behavior, and you’ve extreme autism aggravated fixation.

I often get trash talked, mogged or dismissed for my Si fixations.. perhaps because it’s an immature element in me and it even less receives well.. I mean, you can say that I talk a lot about Si as a “compensatory” for an area I am weak in and focus on it in that way.. Which model G would try say is “Si brake”, but I actually enjoy the Si, is the thing. It doesn’t cause me pain.

[necrosebud]

I’ve had tons of model G people type me as an eie based on the premise of me being dramatic and “Fe- negative emotionality” display.

i know

[Braingel]

I had made a good video explaining my insights on how I believe this all would work, basing on myself.. This is the first video, the other one is uploading, and the crappy version that I didn’t complete is as well, where RA and repression of stimming induced brain fog inhibited me:

https://youtu.be/QBhNL8iTCEo?si=tth9RbEcJphuF_HY

The second half of my explanation of how trauma will show up in an organ system of beebe x aushura (which cover blind spots of one another) and it feeding enneagram back into a loop and outward behavior..
https://youtu.be/6-IDClqi8Os?si=BfEtdswLdkNboFab

And of why it’s healing and going a bit more into the dynamic as well with ennea.. My stimm toy made me a bit less brain fogged towards end https://youtu.be/lT0drrhsqeE?si=UMnZWq1up30bKmVt

[necrosebud]

you seem more relaxed/not stressed as much in the recent videos, which is good

I am not familiar with Beebe but I can understand why you might be drawn to Fi lead

although I will see I see more Ni "creative" almost as if your thoughts are pre-thought out and then said out loud in your videos as opposed to active Ne exploration which comes across differently in terms of intuition (more disjointed, scattered since there is 'active' intuitive exploration going on as opposed Ni's more quite passive insights that once they have digested they communicate externally).

that being said your openness to different "systems" and flexibility in changing types might indicate some level of Ne influence as well (or just an irrational type?)

[necrosebud]

btw I can see MBTI Fi but socionics Fi is actually more interpersonally oriented and defined (by seeking "closeness" although that is quite a superficial characterization but socionics is a bit weird like that applying physics ideas (potential/kinetic energy, relationships etc) to people haha) but also ofc everything that is implied by it, including stuff like (I would say) fidelity, commitment, sincerity, depth of a trusting connection with someone etc. All these things can be important in general but some might be able to do without it too to a degree, in close relationships. I am intentionally not mentioning the natural "psychologist" quality of NFs bc. that brings in intuition in addition to Fi.

[Braingel]

btw I can see MBTI Fi but socionics Fi is actually more interpersonally oriented and defined (by seeking "closeness" although that is quite a superficial characterization but socionics is a bit weird like that applying physics ideas (potential/kinetic energy, relationships etc) to people haha) but also ofc everything that is implied by it, including stuff like (I would say) fidelity, commitment, sincerity, depth of a trusting connection with someone etc. All these things can be important in general but some might be able to do without it too to a degree, in close relationships. I am intentionally not mentioning the natural "psychologist" quality of NFs bc. that brings in intuition in addition to Fi.

Well, it’s more that Aushura’s EII is a lot different than a modern socio one.. There’s the mental/vital track, so an EII has mental Fi, Ne, Ti and Se.. A great deal of the fixation goes to TiSe.. Which really can translate over into WSS IEI with Se suggestive, how it’s defined there, and hidden agenda Ti… Hidden agenda Ti even fits the Ti role arguably.. Then, an EII doesn’t seek out Te consciously in Aushura, because it’s a vital/unconscious system.

I am mostly throwing away behavioral socionics, now. Meaning I am mostly throwing away WSS and SHS and Filatova. But, all systems will have right parts to them, and you can implement those parts into things.. But overall, I just believe SCS to be a much better system, and more psychologically complex and even having clinical use.

[Braingel]

The Ne in Aushura is also more like modern Ni “internal content and essence”.

[necrosebud]

The Ne in Aushura is also more like modern Ni “internal content and essence”.

I saw the aushra descriptions in that other thread by Muir’s it generally seems in line with whatever is socionics today

and I would think an EII would dualize with an LSE as opposed to being drawn to se egos in that way (which from my observation you seem to have good chemistry/understanding with generally)

[necrosebud]

https://classicsocionics.wordpress.c...ng-of-symbols/

Ne is latent/potential energy here and Ni clealry about "time"

arguably the idea of intangible qualities could apply to both altho you might have meant it a certain way beyond just that phrase

[Braingel]

Well, what has a huge role in me being an eii in classical is that I have vital, not mental Fe, and a TiSe super ego:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...47d6beb3318c0&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a46dd9f25c34d&

I have mental Ne:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ba06e2522a054&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...73286cdbc6d72&

[qaz00]

I didn't want to fire up the drama as I really don't care, but this is so accurate and fitting.

Btw, whenever someone gets so upset about a typing, it just makes it seem even more like there could be truth to it.

Because, if it was really so absurd or besides the mark, why would you be upset about it? You would shrug and not take it seriously.

But it hits a nerve. For a good reason, usually.

It's rather about their Ego getting hurt. They have developed this attachment to a certain image of themselves, and if you do not acknowledge that, they feel like it is an affront to their Ego. They feel slighted. And insecure, because how can you not see them the way they "are" (or rather, want to be seen)?! So they get upset. People are quite touchy when you invalidate their idealized view of themselves in any shape or form.

[Braingel]

I didn't want to fire up the drama as I really don't care, but this is so accurate and fitting.

No. The reason why I am offended, is because you told me my self-view is literally delusional, when the delusional view is of how you view me. There is no way I could ever be an Se base. I do not process things in a concrete manner or focus on the surface details and observably physical things of objects. I struggle with exerting action and with force beyond my own ptsd emotional reactions, and am very out of touch with my ability to exert bodily movement. I am mad, because I have complex ptsd and a huge history of invalidation, I already have been hate typed an eie for 3+ years and pretty harshly at that, and your SEE typing is even worse, and because you conflate my complex ptsd trauma reactivity with me being inherently reactive and my level two autism being literal sometimes, and with how applied behavioral analysis therapy beat out some of my metaphorical communication from being presented at all times, with me not being intuitive, and that is why I am enraged at you. But you are too inconsiderate of trauma and inaccurately read people to know that.

I am pissed that you see me in that light, yes, but it’s way deeper than that, and you miss the essence of why. And I also am literally in my shadowed state of my type.

It is offensive and ableist of you to treat my complex ptsd and added level 2 autism executive dysfunction with emotional regulation with me being a certain type. It is even worse you have no openness to see that you could be wrong.

It is dumb you compare other people as a basis to type me by, who don’t have level type two autism or complex ptsd with as extensive of an abuse history, that has literally pushed me more into my unconscious and repressed functions, and act like you can have a right to type me by that.

that is why I’m pissed.

[Braingel]

I didn't want to fire up the drama as I really don't care, but this is so accurate and fitting.

What you don’t understand is how I have developed defenses around my essence from physical, emotional and sexual abuse and bullying (bad bullying where a bully plotted take my own life, and where I had gotten choked), in addition to being put in 6 facilities, 7 of you count a recent crisis shelter and I had gotten abused in one of them, and I had been placed in a highly abusive therapy called ABA (applied behavioral analysis), that literally tries to train you out of your own essence and inherent brain wiring.

If you actually looked at my damn paperwork I showed, I was a very introverted childhood, and even in this one, I used to communicate too much in metaphors, detached thoughts from reality and far advanced words for my age, that I got bullied for it (one of reasons I got bullied), and teachers and ABA therapists tried train that out of me:https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...3d2b49a3261a0&

Because I am an image type and social dom, when I am not in my Fe shadow and am having unconscious expressions that bleed out, I am a lot more selective now about what I show, including of my metaphorical communication, because of SHAME and with his devalued I have been for that.

[Braingel]

And I do not just get like this about how I am typed. It is with ANY invalidation thrown at me that attacks my internal perceptions and whatnot, and this has do with how hideously gaslit and invalidated I have been from my caregivers and also from mental health and ABA workers, and people online. It’s a sore spot for me and my image issues and all I can do is react.

As you can see, after my mother had said my “molest is not that bad”, and my sister and mother continued to downplay it, I said I want “kill my mother”. That’s ptsd. That’s complex ptsd. This isn’t related to typology much, other than this is unconscious Fe spewing out, unable to control, and enenagrammatic reactivity:https://youtu.be/D3LKtb86PvE?si=uyqEt-qhDdxWxe-v
It is offensive as FUCK that you try put this to my inherent essence and that I’m “inherently reactive”, when since 5 years old, I’ve had my amygdala forced to work against me overtime, and by 15, it just broke. Even got put in psychiatric units and mental health residential facilities because of this, and I was never like this prior. @qaz00 and if you can’t understand this, this is on you and shows your own ineptitude in understanding emotions and of complex matters like trauma. And that you’d probably even blame an abuse victim for their reactions. It’s ableist.

[Braingel]

Maybe your Fe polr just doesn’t allow you to understand the gravity of certain shit you said to me, let alone, it makes you inaccurately interpret my emotional reactions of things to begin with, as being apart of my essence, because it repulses you, and you don’t bother look deeper because you devalue me, and because you also just don’t have the ability to grasp info beyond your own Si subjective, yet concrete experience.

You type the shell that my unconscious has hardened with uncontrollable functions that aren’t apart of my direct conscious or how I internalize information, and basically type how abuse and trauma have shaped me to be. You do not type my ego block, which yes, is hard for me as a social image type, and I react back because of complex ptsd showing up both in Fe and enneagram reactive image core. I have oppositional Fe, that works against my own self and others now because of trauma. It is the shadow manifestation of this unconscious function, it used to be light, and more of how Aushura defined an FiNe’s Fe ignoring. Now it is how Beebe defines the FiNe Fe ignorance, it is the unconscious gateway, and the gates have been forced open where all my accumulated baggage just now bleeds out, and I only know Fe as a weapon when my unconscious traumatic reactions shock up from external stimulus perceiving within it.

And what my unconscious does know is that you in your views of me hurt me in that it stabs into me, what has been a chronic issue throughout most my life. And all I can do is bleed and react, rather than move away, and I even cry at this writing.

I didn't want to fire up the drama as I really don't care, but this is so accurate and fitting.

And this is also probably based on the premise of a neurotypical. I am autistic and already am harder to read in my motivations, because of that, which is what you’re doing here. I do not like how you see me, that’s correct. But it isn’t like eie is that far off from how I type myself, and I still freak out over that, don’t you see? I suppose you don’t, because you’re too imperceptive, and have this whole false idea and perception of me in your head that’s a delusion, because you can’t grasp my essence or factor in my autism and cptsd.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10....62361317708287

Misunderstandings in relationships with people with Asperger’s

Misunderstandings in PwAS–FM relationships may be two-sided (i.e. evident for both people with AS and their relatives) for cognitive, social and cultural reasons. Cognitive reasons for misunderstanding are well documented, highlighting how the individuals with AS may struggle to make themselves appropriately ‘readable’ to others because of limitations in theory of mind (Bowler, 1992; Spek et al., 2010), executive control (Ozonoff et al., 1991; Pellicano et al., 2006), emotion perception and regulation (Montgomery et al., 2013; Samson et al., 2012), and pragmatic language (Capps et al., 1998; Volden, 1997). From the perspective of the ‘neurotypical’ perceiver, the individual with AS can be difficult to read, appearing idiosyncratic (Brewer et al., 2016; Froese et al., 2013) and disconnected from socio-cultural norms (Paul et al., 2009; Woodbury-Smith and Volkmar, 2009).

In some fashion, I really “shouldn’t” be getting that upset in a moral sense, that people type me as an extrovert with 4D Fe, most prominently an EIE (rhyme), because my trauma and abuse have made me look this way. And especially because my shadow is literally an enfj… But emotionally, it kills me. It isn’t my essence and my intrapsychic life, and my intra sphere is of most importance to me, and my image cultivates within this. And so I can’t help but react and wound with the water within having come from outside with external blows and assaults cracking that so.. And I am drowning when others cannot see past the water when they get a brief view in, and see that floundering reaction that splashes out, and I freak when anymore water streams in and blinds my inner essence from being seen.

And this has almost entirety of my own life, been overlooked and I am emaciated for others to realize this.

On some level, with my Fe also directly opposing my Fi+ base in an even more oppositional force than prior my traumatization, it is also just disgusting for me, in my ego block (the base and creative) to be viewed in this way, the blocks along with the super ego that compare on a societal basis and aren’t as self-serving.

Because you may not even read my paperwork, I will make it clear and say my autism has been diagnosed since 8 years old, and is not a self-diagnosis.

This as I shared, @qaz00

Misunderstandings in relationships with people with Asperger’s

Misunderstandings in PwAS–FM relationships may be two-sided (i.e. evident for both people with AS and their relatives) for cognitive, social and cultural reasons. Cognitive reasons for misunderstanding are well documented, highlighting how the individuals with AS may struggle to make themselves appropriately ‘readable’ to others because of limitations in theory of mind (Bowler, 1992; Spek et al., 2010), executive control (Ozonoff et al., 1991; Pellicano et al., 2006), emotion perception and regulation (Montgomery et al., 2013; Samson et al., 2012), and pragmatic language (Capps et al., 1998; Volden, 1997). From the perspective of the ‘neurotypical’ perceiver, the individual with AS can be difficult to read, appearing idiosyncratic (Brewer et al., 2016; Froese et al., 2013) and disconnected from socio-cultural norms (Paul et al., 2009; Woodbury-Smith and Volkmar, 2009).

aside me having a case of severe cptsd in addition, is why the reasons you use to type me are dehumanizing, invalidating, dismissive of serious issues for me and are ultimately wrong in your typing of me. As you can see, emotional reactivity (emotional regulation difficulty) and pragmatic language (a completely different communication than of normal, meaning it will affect communication differently for a person of a certain base) are where you confuse my type with my autism.

Given that you go by communicative and behavioral reasons to type, like me being reactive.. And not my actual cognition, and assume these things directly relate to where my cognitive functions are. It is even worse that you tried to quote that user, whose message wouldn’t even apply to everyone, and it assumes, is almost a very Ne polr or ignoring thing to write, eliminating other reasons for why someone can be defensive. You don’t realize I’ve been harassed about my type for three years, and have been hate typed an EIE for a long ass time.

And when I was being typed as an EIE left and right, it literally made me have a psychological breakdown where I cried and whatnot and had made the is thread: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ted-at-Model-G I reacted even worse than when I cried, emotionally hemorrhaged and reacted at you for typing me an SEE, but this happened on discord.. And I just couldn’t stop bleeding. I hated the reasons people used to type me eie, that they tried say it’s just a common type and whatnot, I hated the idea of “IEI’s having calm and correct me” as some people were saying, and it was all just fucking disgusting to me. For people to make it this, when I am not as how they’re thinking and just have extreme complex ptsd and have always been undermined and downplayed of my own intra psychic reality. And it kills me. There’s nothing that hurts me more.

If I break down over someone not accurately seeing what type I am, imagine how hard my life must be and of what it would’ve taken for something like this to be able to push me into a breakdown and cptsd emotional flashback… Of age regression.. @qaz00 .. I have been typed a lot of things and always react like this, it’s far from being your own. I even didn’t like my boyfriend typing me as an EII at first. And he said he didn’t want push it because it hurts me. And this isn’t just typology-related. I react like this when I am faced with any invalidation of my internal self.

How little control I even have of my Fe and freak out in Fe things should already tell you that it isn’t a 4D placement for me..

[necrosebud]

I can understand invalidating but what do you mean by him being dehumanizing?

[Braingel]

I can understand invalidating but what do you mean by him being dehumanizing?

Let’s quote what Qaz said initially.

As someone typing you as an extravert, I'd like to mention one of my reasons. With other very intuitive users here, especially Ni leads like End or Scawwy it's difficult for me to follow their thought process, their writing is like gibberish unless I really focus to decipher what they mean, and even then it's difficult to understand all the stages, how they come from A to B. You, on the other hand, I find extremely easy to understand, I know how to identify missteps in your thought process and criticize them, while with most intuitive users my first impression when looking at their posts is "wow, what does that even mean, where do I start?". Another factor is that I see you as someone who is instinctively, viscerally reactive, quick to respond and your philosophizing seems like an adaptation added later, IEIs to me seem more detached and their reactions to the outside world are less spontaneous. I use my own understanding of functions (my definition of Se is closer to MBTI than Socionics for example) and I don't stick to any models, so maybe my current SEE typing of you makes sense only in my system.

And what he said thereafter:

”It would take an extraordinary amount of work to help you reverse delusions you have about yourself…..”

First of all, whilst he didn’t outright say anything vastly mean in the first paragraph, he is undermining my abuse history, and is acting like this hasn’t had any impact upon me. I am an enneagram 4, so I hate being told “I am easy to understand”, huge insult to me, which is my own issue. My issue also is that he’s comparing me to non autistic users. His “Autistic Si base perfectionist” sounds like a troll and mog of autism, but if he is actually autistic, he probably can read my better because of my autism to begin with. Autistic individuals generally pick up one another better than of neurotypicals. But he is comparing me to others on the basis of non autistic users who don’t have complex ptsd, and who were not put into applied behavioral analysis therapy, which is the “standard” therapy for autism, and it teaches you how to communicate with others. Meaning that typing me by my communicative style to begin with his faulty, because for one thing, I have been severely bullied for my natural communicative style (which is what made therapists and teachers try and shape it differently to begin with, overtime for 9 years with positive reinforcements where they tried to shock collar melike a dog— which I mean in metaphor and not literally out of my natural behavior and communication. This therapy is highly linked to ptsd itself, by the way: https://theoxfordcenter.com/news/doe...ein%25202018).Like 5 years ago, I literally had written on other places about how that therapy made me feel like a dog being shock collared, and I before I ever studied ABA or knew about that shit I was pit through being it, always said that my friend online, who is more tolerant of my asd, is like a person who is removing a shock collar from a cat and is taking it off. I had been crying as I was writing it and had also written that everyone has only tried to change me in my life, rather than value myself. I got shock collared for 9 years for my scattered thought process and intense metaphoric and off the wall depictions of things and bullied for them, so I can be more selective about telling them now, just like I had said “it’s a long story”, opting to not write it out, but I wrote it to other people whom I felt would of it value. Now aside from this, Qaz on past has thrown pejoratives at me, saying I’m too dramatic and distort the context of things, such as back when I’d related on Sol. He is dehumanizing me, because he is putting my trauma reactions as my personality and he’s assuming that my intuition is how I coped and it is actually the other way around——— I developed extreme sensory fixations and autistic fixations on aromatherapy and long baths and shit to cope with my trauma and abuse, aside from I did turn to fanfiction.

He had said something in the past, along the lines of “you blow things out of proportion as you always do” or I blew the narrative or whatever, suggesting he dismisses what I’ve to say outright. He focuses on my “mistakes” I make and writes in a way like I am dull, stupid, common and unintelligible. Lack depth. He insults me almost in it, and then, he fucking tells me I am delusional in how I type and view myself, when he is the one confusing my autism, ABA impacting how I communicate socially as an algorithm or 9 fucking years beat and fucking trained like a fucking dog in a shock collar for 9 years with negative and positive reinforcements like you’re training a dog, and is acting like the abuse I’ve dealt with physically, emotionally and sexually from my family and from peers and abuse in facilities and the whole ABA crap hasn’t affected me and is acting like I am this naturally outwardly reactive fucking person, when it is THE OPPOSITE and it was BEATEN into me.

He is acting like I am just this way, and isn’t acknowledging all the pain and hurt and suffering and daily mental health demons I deal with from having been shaped into this fucking way, is not there and I’m just born like this essentially. It’s disgusting.

He cannot fathom that my inherent potentialities manifested to their worse and in defensive mechanisms that my inherent psyche doesn’t even process with, to survive all the endless abuse and bullying and invalidation and gaslighting I have been dealt with throughout my life on a near daily basis.

If you will have remembered what I’d written as a teenager, that I had shared in my EIi thread (which by the way… Is an Se super ego in the writing, and an Fi+ base being outraged that I’ve fallen into my shadow.

[necrosebud]

it is possible that he may have issues with empathy/connecting with things outside of what he naturally understands, perhaps in general and not just with you

[Braingel]

l

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1094277273521238116/1230329453864026132/IMG_6497.png?ex=6632ec98&is=66207798&hm=323c66c16f 11d844fb6c3d109e0656dbd8035d206014769f088e60ddffad 9d2c&I plead to be read of “it”, and had said “something snapped”. I just had no cognizance at time of, a shadow. My shadow was and is the “it”, it is what snapped over the light of my unconscious Fe, that uses to show up as how I’d reminisced in that 2016 screen shot… It took it away and robbed that from me, and I’ve grieved over what I’ve lost. This is also in part why it bothers me, typing me in the defenses I’ve developed to compensate that lost little girl that got robbed right from me.I obviously do not like how my trauma has made me become and for someone to type me as this by, it is a taunt and a stab itself not only, but it invalidates all the pain and suffering of my intrapsychic life and assumes it as just how I have always been and he even inaccurately characterizes the philosophy of having been adaptive. It’s the opposite, this neurotic reactivity is adaptive.

Then in addition, he writes in a way as if I am common, dull, shallow, and dumb. Which makes me to feel worthless. And as much as Repent is my friend, that I actually invited to the forum, jealous of.

People don’t even care to see.

My Fe used to manifest in this way:

[necrosebud]

"He had said something in the past, along the lines of “you blow things out of proportion as you always do” or I blew the narrative or whatever, suggesting he dismisses what I’ve to say outright. He focuses on my “mistakes” I make and writes in a way like I am dull, stupid, common and unintelligible. "

sounds like this might be an assumption though

[Expansion]

Very sorry for the triggers here, and i wish the world were different.

[necrosebud]

you seem to like psychology and I have recommended this book to you before, have you read it? I found the way authors described things made so much sense and put so many pieces together. People who do research can bring a lot of information, beyond just your pure intuitive insights

https://www.amazon.com/Affect-Regula.../dp/1590511611

can probably find a free pdf of it, I cna try if you want me to

[Braingel]

"He had said something in the past, along the lines of “you blow things out of proportion as you always do” or I blew the narrative or whatever, suggesting he dismisses what I’ve to say outright. He focuses on my “mistakes” I make and writes in a way like I am dull, stupid, common and unintelligible. "

sounds like this might be an assumption though

I am well aware of it and even said here and elsewhere, but this doesn’t lessen the unconscious triggers I have, which I’ve already tried mentalize. I live in a shocked nervous system from always being invalidated and dismissed by everyone.

I even get bullied most days on discord:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...57bf26e164511&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...39d6dda379b15&

I deal with enough slander and invalidation because of my autism from people misinterpreting me and assuming me wrongly, and then..

I get fucking invalidated every fucking day, already.

Called a “liar” when I am autism overstimulated

https://youtube.com/shorts/MRCzumvDl...okmQj6M2tOzWQd

And was is so fucking imperceptive, look how oblivious I am to sensory info to where I even get shit everywhere from being so detached from my sensory surroundings.

[necrosebud]

I am well aware of it and even said here and elsewhere, but this doesn’t lessen the unconscious triggers I have, which I’ve already tried mentalize. I live in a shocked nervous system from always being invalidated and dismissed by everyone.

I don't know if you can force something to be "mentalized" when you have a complex you can try to untie the knots one by one and over time, maybe even years/months, they start making more sense
I find triggers to be complexes
under stress we can't think straight but it makes more sense when you are safe and relaxed
but acting on the trigger can further exacerbate stress potentially

anyways I strongly recommend giving the book a try
you might like it actually with your focus on theory of mind

[Braingel]

I basically live in the fight and freeze stages of my complex ptsd everyday.

I don't know if you can force something to be "mentalized" when you have a complex you can try to untie the knots one by one and over time, maybe even years/months, they start making more sense
I find triggers to be complexes
under stress we can't think straight but it makes more sense when you are safe and relaxed
but acting on the trigger can further exacerbate stress potentially

anyways I strongly recommend giving the book a try
you might like it actually with your focus on theory of mind

I have done some of these things and they’ve helped slightly, I just believe my nervous system deals with enough stress. It even made me develop rheumatoid arthritis and fibromyalgia.

[necrosebud]

I have done some of these things and they’ve helped slightly, I just believe my nervous system deals with enough stress. It even made me develop rheumatoid arthritis and fibromyalgia.

im not sure how my message was received but I don't think I have asked for you to "do" anything aside from giving the book a try (I shared it on discord)

what I said about untying complexes might be a bit out of your realm of control rn, kind of meant it as an inevitable unconscious process

which has to proceed from something else

maybe using DBT to stem potentially impulsive behavior, if it in turn hurts you, might be more of a first step then

[Braingel]

This whole ordeal, and just fixations on how certain people who have slandered me on other platforms will never believe the originality of my evolved ideas and whatnot has made me emotional rather a lot.. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...7918f71&People would even think this is “Fe- base”, when I wasn’t even conscious I was doing this until now. And I know how these things intwine, the thought process of how these things jumped from this trigger here and correlated it to other things, I just don’t feel like writing of it.

[Braingel]

Also really quickly, the reason why I split up more messages than of even normal, was because there is this glitch on 16T where it won’t post your message the first time, and I had been in a jacuzzi that has poor internet reception by it, and it sometimes doesn’t post my edits and clears them and for some reason it posts the message as a separate message.. (freelance merged some of my posts into one).. But yeah, that’s why I posted more things in bursts today than of normal, even though I naturally do type like that.

[Braingel]

Let’s quote what Qaz said initially.And what he said thereafter:First of all, whilst he didn’t outright say anything vastly mean in the first paragraph, he is undermining my abuse history, and is acting like this hasn’t had any impact upon me. I am an enneagram 4, so I hate being told “I am easy to understand”, huge insult to me, which is my own issue. My issue also is that he’s comparing me to non autistic users. His “Autistic Si base perfectionist” sounds like a troll and mog of autism, but if he is actually autistic, he probably can read my better because of my autism to begin with. Autistic individuals generally pick up one another better than of neurotypicals. But he is comparing me to others on the basis of non autistic users who don’t have complex ptsd, and who were not put into applied behavioral analysis therapy, which is the “standard” therapy for autism, and it teaches you how to communicate with others. Meaning that typing me by my communicative style to begin with his faulty, because for one thing, I have been severely bullied for my natural communicative style (which is what made therapists and teachers try and shape it differently to begin with, overtime for 9 years with positive reinforcements where they tried to shock collar melike a dog— which I mean in metaphor and not literally out of my natural behavior and communication. This therapy is highly linked to ptsd itself, by the way: https://theoxfordcenter.com/news/doe...ein%25202018).Like 5 years ago, I literally had written on other places about how that therapy made me feel like a dog being shock collared, and I before I ever studied ABA or knew about that shit I was pit through being it, always said that my friend online, who is more tolerant of my asd, is like a person who is removing a shock collar from a cat and is taking it off. I had been crying as I was writing it and had also written that everyone has only tried to change me in my life, rather than value myself. I got shock collared for 9 years for my scattered thought process and intense metaphoric and off the wall depictions of things and bullied for them, so I can be more selective about telling them now, just like I had said “it’s a long story”, opting to not write it out, but I wrote it to other people whom I felt would of it value. Now aside from this, Qaz on past has thrown pejoratives at me, saying I’m too dramatic and distort the context of things, such as back when I’d related on Sol. He is dehumanizing me, because he is putting my trauma reactions as my personality and he’s assuming that my intuition is how I coped and it is actually the other way around——— I developed extreme sensory fixations and autistic fixations on aromatherapy and long baths and shit to cope with my trauma and abuse, aside from I did turn to fanfiction.

He had said something in the past, along the lines of “you blow things out of proportion as you always do” or I blew the narrative or whatever, suggesting he dismisses what I’ve to say outright. He focuses on my “mistakes” I make and writes in a way like I am dull, stupid, common and unintelligible. Lack depth. He insults me almost in it, and then, he fucking tells me I am delusional in how I type and view myself, when he is the one confusing my autism, ABA impacting how I communicate socially as an algorithm or 9 fucking years beat and fucking trained like a fucking dog in a shock collar for 9 years with negative and positive reinforcements like you’re training a dog, and is acting like the abuse I’ve dealt with physically, emotionally and sexually from my family and from peers and abuse in facilities and the whole ABA crap hasn’t affected me and is acting like I am this naturally outwardly reactive fucking person, when it is THE OPPOSITE and it was BEATEN into me.

He is acting like I am just this way, and isn’t acknowledging all the pain and hurt and suffering and daily mental health demons I deal with from having been shaped into this fucking way, is not there and I’m just born like this essentially. It’s disgusting.

He cannot fathom that my inherent potentialities manifested to their worse and in defensive mechanisms that my inherent psyche doesn’t even process with, to survive all the endless abuse and bullying and invalidation and gaslighting I have been dealt with throughout my life on a near daily basis.

If you will have remembered what I’d written as a teenager, that I had shared in my EIi thread (which by the way… Is an Se super ego in the writing, and an Fi+ base being outraged that I’ve fallen into my shadow.

If you’d also notice, I am really not that reactive to things other than with my image issues, which show in the face of complex ptsd… I feel it’s a really unfair way to type someone, and assume someone reactive in all facets and with informational metabolism in general, off the promises of them having intense reactions to real PTSD triggers and to abuse. I do get very reactive in some showings I’ve given with my family, but this has been years upon years of nervous system wiring and damage, wired in a way of adaptivity to surviving abuse. So I’d vehemently disagree, actually, that outside of my image issues inflated my cptsd, where they show their face in, I am not reactive, actually.

Just the entire to type someone off of their reactions to abuse in general, is not a good idea. Yes, trauma will impact in the forming stages, of traumatization, how someone sees their abuse and their temperament will acquire defenses.. But overtime.. With enough poison swallowed in, the digestion will erode and leak out in which others enter, and also, some vomit will come back up.. You can argue how long it takes to beat down has a role in how someone can withstand the quicksand of height, being sucked into the thrills and control and mercy of the unconscious mechanisms an animal, including human, will develop as needs to survive an abusive dynamic.. But once sucked in, it all loses mostly, in the typology terrain, other than perhaps it says something about unconscious placements where trauma stores and will erupt, the very organ that does the throwing up, to begin with..

[qaz00]

Just to clarify...

His “Autistic Si base perfectionist” sounds like a troll and mog of autism, but if he is actually autistic, he probably can read my better because of my autism to begin with.

It stemmed from my witty remark to Alive's post, not that I'm literally autistic (it's not impossible though, some traits are clearly there...).

He had said something in the past, along the lines of “you blow things out of proportion as you always do” or I blew the narrative or whatever, suggesting he dismisses what I’ve to say outright. He focuses on my “mistakes” I make and writes in a way like I am dull, stupid, common and unintelligible. Lack depth. He insults me almost in it, and then, he fucking tells me I am delusional in how I type and view myself, when he is the one confusing my autism, ABA impacting how I communicate socially as an algorithm or 9 fucking years beat and fucking trained like a fucking dog in a shock collar for 9 years with negative and positive reinforcements like you’re training a dog, and is acting like the abuse I’ve dealt with physically, emotionally and sexually from my family and from peers and abuse in facilities and the whole ABA crap hasn’t affected me and is acting like I am this naturally outwardly reactive fucking person, when it is THE OPPOSITE and it was BEATEN into me.

I'm aware of all these things you mention, and I think you're delusional not despite them, but rather because of them. I wrote my thoughts about this in my vent post that you probably missed, as I posted it in a different thread and kept it purposefully vague. Be aware of its speculative nature, I'm not stating facts there:

I escaped myself, I understood everything and I am free, I turned into a completely different person (esoteric nonsense fans would say enlightened or whatever) and I'm not exaggerating. You could too, but you never listen. Go slap a label on yourself, blame the label, not yourself. Blame the family, blame everyone, blame the world, protect this little rotten inner self from the truth. It's their fault, I can't do anything, I can't develop myself, I can't do simple tasks because my conditions limit me (but somehow I'm really smart and understand things, so nothing should limit me... let's skip this as it doesn't fit the narrative). Those who propose these conditions are totally right, I believe them because they give me an excuse, so I don't have to call myself a failure, I'm a victim of circumstances, the most severe case on the planet. It's a miracle I function, so I'm great, but I'm in pain because it means I can't fix myself, and never will. Now, most people around you, those are totally wrong, they're all the worst abusers. Wherever I go, it's always the same, I suffer the most, everything is an attack towards me, every word hurts. When you base your identity on outside factors instead of facing your shortcomings in an honest way, you can't escape yourself. When you fail to see your ridiculousness, you're asleep and lost, you think in circles, can't move to improve.

Also, top comment.

[Braingel]

Just to clarify...It stemmed from my witty remark to Alive's post, not that I'm literally autistic (it's not impossible though, some traits are clearly there...).I'm aware of all these things you mention, and I think you're delusional not despite them, but rather because of them. I wrote my thoughts about this in my vent post that you probably missed, as I posted it in a different thread and kept it purposefully vague. Be aware of its speculative nature, I'm not stating facts there:

Well, yes, I am a victim in this world. I’ve been literally abused by more than 500 people. That may be hard to believe, but online I got really viewed in some places, and then k faves maltreatment from maybe 120 people person in person.. Starting from 5. I got bullied from kindergarten to the last year before I dropped out. I indeed am a victim, and it is because my brain development is not congruent with the conscious of society, and I will always be a victim for as long as the society is set up as it is. You do not understand the big picture, that autistic individuals are often put to death prematurely because of how the world tries beat out the autism and mask it. I got bullied as badly as I had, because unconsciously, I went against the survival pulls of those children and they wanted eradicated my static conscious, and they’ve successfully done this, along with my family and aba workers. They have removed me from society and have ruined most my potentials in the modern world, which I am fine with, because the modern world is an abusive shithole and is vapid and meaningless, and aims towards a future that ends in nothing that evolves the conscious in all its facets. I have been failed even worse since turning 18, as well.I do not fit the developments for shelters and whatnot, I’ve tried a lot of ways to evade my familial situation, including three monastery admissions.. https://www.thinkingautism.org.uk/ad...tes-in-autism/

It is an undeniable and sad fact that individuals with autism suffer much poorer health and shorter lifespan than their peers without autism. Multiple studies have shown this including one published in 2018, an important investigation of over 27,000 Swedish people diagnosed with ASD which revealed that theaverage life expectancy among the people studied with severe autism is 39.5 years, rising to only 58 years for those with high-functioning autism, or Asperger syndrome.

I don’t believe this will be myself, because I am into a lot of alternative health and I also have a powerful mind, but I have already developed rheumatoid arthritis and fibromyalgia now, in my early twenties, and I’ve a broken nose that is deformed from endless stress to where I stimmed and broke it.You do not understand, Qaz, that nearly everything in modern society and of most human interaction and even some life processes their own self, work against an autistic brain. There are a few places an autistic conscious can put into place, where no longer, it disables. But even getting to these places has currents. I’ve always believed I would get to them, and I still do.You do not understand how your very own existence works against your own self in most environmental settings. And we live in a world where 1/2 of autistic individuals over 18 end up abused. https://amp.theguardian.com/society/...friends-survey

[Braingel]

Just to clarify...It stemmed from my witty remark to Alive's post, not that I'm literally autistic (it's not impossible though, some traits are clearly there...).I'm aware of all these things you mention, and I think you're delusional not despite them, but rather because of them. I wrote my thoughts about this in my vent post that you probably missed, as I posted it in a different thread and kept it purposefully vague. Be aware of its speculative nature, I'm not stating facts there:

I am a victim of the current societal set ups in how they present and show their face in illusions, not only because of my autism alone, but because of how my autism has received by this world and who my parents were (are, they’re alive) with their own unresolved with their own unresolved childhood abuse and family dysfunction.. The abuse generates at least two cycles for father, and three for mother.. I was never put into place, where I could grow in the few environments I had potentials to reach the height I needed be to this day. I do grieve over what could’ve been, but alas, I have hopes for my future with some.

I am as if an arctic seed who has planted right into a barren desert, deprived of what needs for me to be emergent in the face of world, and I face blame for not growing, in a world I was never made grow in, under those conditions I’ve set into. A plant cannot transplant itself, and needs external help. I do not have in my traits, what even needs to navigate these terrains, for in them, I cannot even survive. The very social tides and sensory stimulus that I am not designed to process, and the very executive dysfunction my brain possesses, arresting to in some areas, an elementary school child’s (like my ability to organize and self-monitor) make even me going to a shelter an impossible task to have good outcome. I’ve been put into several and even tried get into one with my online friend out of state, we’d three-way called, and that one was going to be a 30 day then kick out, just as the ones I’ve been placed in, but they had slightly different durations.