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Thread: Gia Carangi

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    Default Gia Carangi

    I didn’t see any thread on her to my knowledge so I will do the honors. Gia was a famous model during the late 70s and early 80s and widely considered the first “supermodel”. She was openly gay. She began abusing drugs and developed a heroin addiction and destroyed her career because of it. Later, she contracted HIV from a contaminated needle and died from AIDS, being one of the first famous women to die from the disease.

    A movie based on her life starring Angelina Jolie was released in 1998.







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    Thoughts?


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    Anything, anyone?


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    I think fucked up ESI... Very close to my dual, no matter what- I’m enamored with her.


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    Too lazy to write much qaz00's Avatar
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    SEE or EIE

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    ⊱⋆painting the roses red⋆⊰ asterr's Avatar
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    I agree it sounds like SEE or EIE from your descriptions

    i feel like I’ve heard of her, but what I just read you wrote about her is the most I’ve known, but now I’m interested and want to watch the movie

    so likely after some investigation I’ll come back
    ·:*¨༺༻¨*:·.𝓽𝓾𝓶𝓫𝓵𝓻·:*¨༺ ༻¨*:·.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aster View Post
    I agree it sounds like SEE or EIE from your descriptions

    i feel like I’ve heard of her, but what I just read you wrote about her is the most I’ve known, but now I’m interested and want to watch the movie

    so likely after some investigation I’ll come back
    Well, you guys may be on to something since I do find a lot of myself in her~

    I’m very excited from the replies, too, ah.

    ps. I believe she’s an sx 4w3 too!


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    This typing is speculative, so don't expect super solid evidence, but I think she is SLE w/ Sx instinct 1st or 2nd. Her family and the industry seriously messed her up, and could explain away a lot of the things I'm about to list. So I get it if people disagree and think SLE is crazy for her.

    First, IMO she is high as balls in these interviews, especially the second one. And she's a model, so her image and PR is coached. So I wouldn't go by image or what she says in front of cameras, I'd go to her journals and how the people close to her described her.

    https://www.thelist.com/151740/the-t...st-supermodel/


    Her friends, as well as her journal entries, reveal that Carangi was a deeply passionate woman, quick to fall in love. "Gia just loved women and she fell for them whether they were straight or gay," a high school friend told Philadelphia.

    While Gia was quick to fall in love, she also desperately wanted to be loved herself. "Gia was prone to needing someone around all the time," a former partner said. "Sometimes it was almost like she needed a baby sitter."


    A woman who did not return the affection Carangi had for her said that the model was searching so hard for love that she would sometimes fall for anyone who was kind to her, whether they were attracted to women or not. "I think she mistook caring as sexual," she said. "She needed people so badly that she pushed them away by putting expectations on them they couldn't possibly fulfill."
    Needs people around all the time - Extrovert > Introvert.

    Desperately wanting to be loved - Anybody would be in her situation, so I won't use that.

    Quick to fall in love, passionate, needy - Passionate could be Sx Fi or Fe. Needy could be attachment style. But everything together, I get the impression Beta Sx/So Fe dom/Fe mob. The description sounds like something an Fi person would say about an unhealthy Beta.

    "When you're young... you know, it's hard to make the difference between what is real and what is not real," Carangi said. "There's a lot of vultures around you." Carangi also talked about how she got hooked on drugs, saying that it "creeps up on you." She added, "It catches you in a world that's, you know... none that anyone will ever know except someone who's been there."
    Not knowing whether relationships are real or not. SLE Fi Polr > EIE Fi ignoring. It happens with Gamma SF but they're not as blindsided.

    The industry wasn't kind to Carangi. Instead of finding camaraderie with her fellow models, she instead felt shunned by many of them. Their treatment of her contributed to her loneliness and left her depressed. "The other models seem to resent me," she wrote after a photo shoot in her datebook (via Philadelphia). "Is it jealousy or [are] all girls just like that... I get the feeling a few of them would like to pull my hair out. Why don't I get those feelings toward other girls... sometimes they say things that are quite nasty and rude. I think it is a terrible part of the human race, a real flaw. I thought we were all suppose to love one another... "
    IMO this is what naive SLE brotherhood/sisterhood romanticism looks like before life kicks us in the balls and we turn Gamma.



    Another of Carangi's datebook entries elaborated more on her feelings of isolation. She wrote, "... here I sit... feeling very set apart from the other humans but I am finally really starting to dig being different. Maybe I am discovering who I am. Or maybe I'm just stoned again."
    This doesn't sound very Fi or enneagram 4 IMO. Fi and E4 don't accidentally stumble into self discovery in their mid 20s. Sounds like SLE waking up to Fi, or EIE/IEI/SEI waking up from too much time spent being a chameleon.

    "I don't know what is happening in my life, nothing seems or feels right to me," Carangi wrote in her journal (via A Sketch of the Past). "I want to live so bad. But I'm so terribly sad. I wish Wilhelmina didn't die. She was so wonderful to talk to about work. I cry every day for a little while. I wish I knew what to do... I pray that things fall into place." Carangi's biographer, Stephen Fried, told the Chicago Tribune that Cooper's death put Carangi "over the edge," calling Cooper her "surrogate mother."
    IMO this is inferior Ni cry for help. Same thing happened with Mike Tyson's life spiraling out of control after his mentor Cus D'Amato died.


    I'm putting this next part in spoilers because its an unverified "friend" criticizing the accuracy of the movie about her. Take it or leave it.


    https://www.amazon.com/review/RQMO0BC010YSN

    ..Angelina Jolie is a gorgeous and talented actress, but she was such a huge miscast for the role of Gia. Period. She has a striking, unforgettable face, yet did not capture the essence of who Gia really was. Gia was a lot of diffrent things to a lot of different people, but Angelina did not accurately portray any of those things. However, she did a great job as an actress, and I suppose that's all you can hope for.


    The HBO movie was trash. Yup, thats right, trash! It left so much out and stretched the truth and embellished on Gia's story turning it into typical melodramatic Hollywood nonsense....

    ...Believe it or not GIA was a model that was considered "ugly beautiful", that sounds crazy given her beauty but after decades of same Cheryl Tiegs look, her thin lipped, no curves, all American girl next door look. But when Gia came with her ethic look and perfect breast, brown hair and dark brown eyes and full lips, and curvy hips, she was like an attractive Drag Queen. And considered a sexual sensation....

    This moment in time even the ugly girls who were not attractive in real life worked for top designers and celebrities because the main Vogue editors and the agents wanted BIG HIPS and FULL LIPS and the bigger the better, skinny and blonde was out and brunette and voluptuous was in.

    I was close friends with D Cohen ( hat designer) who knew Gia from the age of 15 in philly when he would party at this one gay club called "Oz" that was entirely Judy Garland themed. He told me she was a tomboy and wore smelly clothes and would not wash her hair in weeks and wore a dirty tee and jeans and when they walked down the street on Gia's "Go-Sees", but men would still stop in shock and whistle at her. For the time, her beauty was something that was unreal.

    ...But Gia didn't really care much about the glamour surrounding her, she didn't even like being a model.


    We felt sorry for Gia, even before she made it big, she was always lonely and always by herself much of the time and in a HUGE amount of pain, that no one could fix. She would drive across town in the middle of the night just to get a hug. It was very sad. She was also an extremely sweet person but had a bad temper. If you made her mad, you had better run!

    ...Despite looking so feminine in her fashion photos, Gia was really tough and butch in person; a big ole bull dyke. She was very street smart in spite of being a poser who came from a rich neighborhood but told everyone she was from the ghetto. She always carried a switchblade knife with her and walked like a truck driver and swore like a sailor. Her few shows ( Perry Ellis ) were funny in a sad way, she had to learn how to walk in high heels and hated it, yet she was on the cover of Vogue that season wearing Ellis ( pink hand knit sweater I think). Polly M and Patty H loved her because she was so new and different, being a brunette in a blonde hair blue eyes dominated industry. She was praised in the same way model Esme was a few years earlier for her thick dark brows. It was a time to love away from the typical ford model norm.

    ...The other models however hated Gia, mostly cause she was gay and for a short while, more successful. They hated the fact a Lesbian was more successful, and beautiful than them. Especially one who hadn't been in the biz that long. It got so bad, Gia had to be separated from the other girls who she would send flowers to, she would flirt with the other models and hit on them, and the models would freak out and complain to the agents. One girl even broke out in hives she was so flipped out...

    I dislike when people make snarky or callous remarks about Gia, like she deserved to die or something because of her recklessness. Yes, Gia was a MESS, but she certainly wasn't the only one in that troubled place and time. Gia wasn't the only model who used drugs, she wasn't the only model who had a bad reputation or showed up late, if at all. Gia was just rather, unlucky. But definitely not unique when it came to self destructiveness. There were plenty other girls who were just as physiologically messed up as Gia was, AND THEN SOME! Some models even committed suicide. Gia was not the only girl in the business with serious mental issues and inner demons. They almost want to make it seem like Gia was some big ole Italian, Lesbian junkie who was beautiful yet tragically careless, which is not true. There were times when Gia was surprisingly very boring to be around. She wasn't that intelligent, she wasn't "too good for this world". Gia was just at the right place at the right time, and then at the wrong place at the wrong time, basically.


    TLDR: IRL she was sweet with a bad temper, tough, butch, bull dyke, street smart, carried a switchblade knife with her, walked like a truck driver and swore like a sailor.

    I see Se but don't really see anything that suggests her Fi and Ni are anything but terrible. She is unable to form relationships, figure herself out to get out of the hole, or even psychoanalyze her situation. She needed an IEI bad. I think SLE Sexual/Social

    Full disclosure: I think VI is bullshit, but she is the closest to a celebrity look-alike I've come across. (No I am not going to post a pic) I see flashes of mirror mannerisms and even a bit of personality, which is disturbing. But she seems Self-Pres last and tweaking, and I am... not lol.
    Last edited by inaLim; 06-12-2021 at 07:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inaLim View Post
    This typing is speculative, so don't expect super solid evidence, but I think she is SLE w/ Sx instinct 1st or 2nd. Her family and the industry seriously messed her up, and could explain away a lot of the things I'm about to list. So I get it if people disagree and think SLE is crazy for her.

    First, IMO she is high as balls in these interviews, especially the second one. And she's a model, so her image and PR is coached. So I wouldn't go by image or what she says in front of cameras, I'd go to her journals and how the people close to her described her.

    https://www.thelist.com/151740/the-t...st-supermodel/



    Needs people around all the time - Extrovert > Introvert.

    Desperately wanting to be loved - Anybody would be in her situation, so I won't use that.

    Quick to fall in love, passionate, needy - Passionate could be Sx Fi or Fe. Needy could be attachment style. But everything together, I get the impression Beta Sx/So Fe dom/Fe mob. The description sounds like something an Fi person would say about an unhealthy Beta.



    Not knowing whether relationships are real or not. SLE Fi Polr > EIE Fi ignoring. It happens with Gamma SF but they're not as blindsided.



    IMO this is what naive SLE brotherhood/sisterhood romanticism looks like before life kicks us in the balls and we turn Gamma.





    This doesn't sound very Fi or enneagram 4 IMO. Fi and E4 don't accidentally stumble into self discovery in their mid 20s. Sounds like SLE waking up to Fi, or EIE/IEI/SEI waking up from too much time spent being a chameleon.



    IMO this is inferior Ni cry for help. Same thing happened with Mike Tyson's life spiraling out of control after his mentor Cus D'Amato died.


    I'm putting this next part in spoilers because its an unverified "friend" criticizing the accuracy of the movie about her. Take it or leave it.



    TLDR: IRL she was sweet with a bad temper, tough, butch, bull dyke, street smart, carried a switchblade knife with her, walked like a truck driver and swore like a sailor.

    I see Se but don't really see anything that suggests her Fi and Ni are anything but terrible. She is unable to form relationships, figure herself out to get out of the hole, or even psychoanalyze her situation. She needed an IEI bad. I think SLE Sexual/Social

    Full disclosure: I think VI is bullshit, but she is the closest to a celebrity look-alike I've come across. (No I am not going to post a pic) I see flashes of mirror mannerisms and even a bit of personality, which is disturbing. But she seems Self-Pres last and tweaking, and I am... not lol.
    Ahhhh, thank you for giving me some food for thought, I can’t wait to jump into this fully. I quickly skimmed through your post and saw THIS and I must say I feel like I’m being called out in particular here, hahaha:

    EIE/IEI/SEI waking up from too much time spent being a chameleon.”

    ^This must be why I’ve switched it from 2 to 4 in my siggy lol, time will tell.



    I will get back to this as soon as I can~


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    Se ego
    I AM YOUR HOLY TOTEM
    I AM YOUR SICK TABOO
    RADICAL AND RADIANT
    I'M YOUR NIGHTMARE COMING TRUE

    I AM YOUR WORST ENEMY
    I AM YOUR DEAREST FRIEND
    MALIGNANTLY MALEVOLENT
    I AM OF DIVINE DESCENT


    I AM YOUR UNCONSCIOUSNESS
    I AM UNRESTRAINED EXCESS
    METAMORPHIC RESTLESSNESS
    I'M YOUR UNEXPECTEDNESS

    I AM YOUR APOCALYPSE
    I AM YOUR BELIEF UNWROUGHT
    MONOLITHIC JUGGERNAUT

    STRAY BULLET
    FROM THE HEAVENS ABOVE
    STRAY BULLET
    READY OR NOT
    I'M THE ILLEGITIMATE SON OF GOD


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    From "Thing of Beauty"


    To her parents, Gia seemed to have been transformed overnight after attending a Bowie show. “She got involved with rock concerts, okay?” her stepfather, Henry Sperr, recalled. “And a bunch of people who went to rock concerts. They weren’t from around here. She got a Bowie haircut and that changed her personality completely. She seemed like a sweet, young little kid before, and then afterward … well, you know it probably had something to do with the drugs. She would be disrespectful, she would be constantly fighting, just over nothing. And she’d be very rebellious. You’d say, ‘Be home at ten o’clock,’ and she’d come home the next day.”

    Ronnie and Gia immediately hit it off. When they saw each other, Gia made it a point to bite Ronnie, as a sign of playfully outrageous affection. Besides Bowie, they shared the bond of emotional, broken homes.

    And Ronnie and Gia had something else in common. The Bowie kids did a lot of sexual posturing. Bowie was bisexual so, at least in theory, they were, too: they cross-dressed, they cross-flirted. In practice, however, few of them did in private what they claimed to do in public. And some of them didn’t do anything at all. All of which made life that much more confusing for people like Gia and Ronnie, who, deep inside, suspected that they really were gay, and wanted to do something about it.


    The reinvented Gia who Karen Karuza met was still basically a quiet girl who did not yet possess great beauty. Still, there was something about her that drew attention and made people stare: even the severe Bowie haircut couldn’t dilute her visual appeal. Young men and women alike were stunned by the way she looked, her wicked grin, her perfectly squared shoulders, the utter fearlessness in her gait, the sad burn behind her wide eyes. She smoked Marlboros with cool distance and danced with abandon. At thirteen, she had already found in herself a seductive posture that made people want to break rules for her.

    Nobody knew her from conversation. A dispassionate “Yeah, yeah, yeah,” a laugh and a shrug were her responses to most situations. She was personably vague one-on-one, and even her closest relationships were shallow. She rarely shared personal details with anyone. “She never talked about her family life or anything,” recalled one friend. “You know how teenage girls whine and cry about their moms? She would never do it.”

    ...“I was sitting in a class once,” recalled one close friend, “and I heard a voice yell, ‘Yo, Ellen.’ I looked out the window, toward the window of the boys’ bathroom across the courtyard, and there was Gia’s ass sticking out. She was a wild child.”


    “It was great at Lincoln,” Gia would later recount. “I guess they remember me because I used to chuck moons out the window all the time. It was real fun. Nobody knew my face, but they sure remember my ass.”..
    Her mom:

    Suddenly, instead of frustration, Gia was bringing fun and excitement to her mother’s life. “Gia was good to me,” Kathleen said. “She was very thoughtful and took care of me. I remember one time we were driving to New York together in my ‘78 Corvette. We came up the Holland Tunnel and saw this cab go flying past. As we got to an intersection, he hit the curb and then he leaped in the air and dropped out of the sky onto the top of the ‘78 Corvette. Gia got out and started screaming at this cab driver. And the police are there, and she’s got this knife in her hand and she’s gonna knife this guy. And these New York cops are standing there watching this saying, ‘If she does knife him, we’ll never see it.’


    “She was, really, the whole world to me. When she was home, the whole house would fill up. When she left it was empty. She had a certain way of coming through the door, like the Fourth of July and all fireworks were going off.”
    Her photographer:


    Gia continued to provoke Stember and his crew. “I was meditating at the time, you know,” he recalled. “And I was sitting there on my bunk meditating and there was a little hatch above me. Suddenly I heard this sort of scuffling, but I wouldn’t open my eyes. And the next thing bang, bam, bam, bam, she and Bitten are lowering a radio full volume on a string. I’m trying to meditate and this radio is sitting in front of my face, full volume.

    “Then the next thing is they’re both lying on deck, completely naked both of them, both holding sun oil, saying, ‘John, please would you put some sun oil on us?’ And I’m saying, ‘Listen, guys, you know I’m married’ [at that time to second wife, model Carrie Lowell], but they say, ‘But you have to do it.’ And this is the sort of games they’re playing. Wearing dresses with no underwear, sitting, like, with their legs wide open. And I come out of the companionway up to dinner and here they are sitting like that, just to provoke, constant provocation.


    “One night we decided to play Monopoly. So, of course, with Gia and Bitten, I have to almost punch both of them out. Gia had a knife to Bitten’s throat because she thought she was cheating and had taken one of her properties. She was prepared to kill her. It took me two days to get them to stop threatening to kill each other.”

    In fact, some were already finding Gia to be a chore: she made everything harder than it needed to be. But Stember thought he saw something more behind her contentiousness than another dumb, spoiled model trying to make everyone’s life miserable.

    “I had a lot of fun times with her,” he said. “But, basically, if you told Gia black, she would say white. If you told her to go left, she would go right. If you told her to sit there, she would stand. Whatever you told her to do, she would do the opposite and she did it to the biggest people in this business. They didn’t know what hit them. They’d never seen anything like it. Normally, the girls are like ‘Fuck me, fuck me, I’ll do anything for you.’ Gia was just fuck you.

    “I have never met anybody who did it in the way that she did. It was so totally self-destructive—it was the way she dealt with herself, too. But she’d put a knife to your throat if you told her that. She had this anger, you know, this tremendous anger. It took a lot of ducking and diving to put up with her. She had to see you weren’t going to hit her back. I didn’t need to hit her: she was doing it all for me. So I just was her friend. She would take you and pow, just to see what you would do. If you didn’t get mad, then she’d begin to trust. But when she started to trust you, she’d feel guilty, pow, just for no reason.

    “You see somebody like her and you become more aware of the human condition at its extreme end. Here’s a girl who’s extremely beautiful and in extreme pain. And you have to ask yourself: Why is someone who looks this way in so much pain?”
    Others:

    I called Gia and said, ‘Call your mother and tell her what is going on.’ They didn’t really have the best of relationships. Obviously, the mother was interested in how the daughter was doing, what was going on: she seemed concerned, very normal motherly concern. Gia just couldn’t care less about telling her.”

    While Gia stayed with her, Lizzette also got a glimpse at what passed for her support system in New York. “Gia had a lot of obscure friends,” she recalled. “She had a way of coming in and out of people’s lives, with such speed and so briefly: I think it was hard for her to have relationships for any length of time. You would see her for four hours but you would remember those four hours. I think Sandy is the one Gia spent the most time with.”


    Increasingly, Gia’s colleagues had come to perceive her as a very cruisy bisexual who came on to most of the women she worked with but had some kind of ongoing relationship with Sandy Linter—or, as ongoing as two full-time freelancers who worked and parried around the world could be. Those who were closer to her believed she was more flirtatious than promiscuous.

    “She was definitely bisexual,” said John Stember, “but she didn’t have a lot of sexual relationships, I’ll tell you that. She had major sexual problems, major. And for her to get into a sexual situation, it was not that easy at all. She wasn’t fucking around like crazy, at all. She had real difficulty with people. She could find very, very few people that she could spend any kind of time with and she spent a lot of time by herself, a lot of time. All this stuff with her image tends to make her out to be something she wasn’t. She had major problems being alive, with herself and finding any kind of ground to be with herself, which was why she was taking drugs most of the time because it alleviated the pain.”

    In the meantime, she was developing a coterie of fair-weather fans and first-name-only drug connections—like Raul, who worked out of an apartment in the East Village and serviced a lot of the uptown fashion people. Gia had many work friends, play friends and drug friends. But few real friends.


    Se dom. Her life is nuts. Could be either SLE or SEE, I just see a lot of counter-phobic Se?


    Edit:

    Fun fact I learned from skimming the book: Models pop Quaaludes to get the Ni dreamy-eyed look. That's probably what she's on in the first video.
    Last edited by inaLim; 06-12-2021 at 08:41 PM.

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    @flames

    I see myself a lot in her too.

    Openly gay, sweet-but-angry. Not respecting or liking cruelty. Testing others with how much rebellion and how much 'you' they are strong enough to withstand, being provocative. Being beautiful and smart and having other people being jealous.

    Feeling alone. Being sexual and flirty but in reality not being that promiscuous. Other people thinking she's more of a whore/slut than she really is. I deeply relate to all of this lol.

    Deliberately challenging everybody, no matter how much power they have or whatever their Te authority status is. I'm also like this. "Bnd is looking for the exceptional bullies."

    Only thing I'm not really a bull dyke and I don't act like a bull in the china shop like she seemed to be and I never did drugs. But what a sad ending to a great and misunderstood person. RIP Gia.

    She looks like Starfall to me in some ways. Maybe she's IEI-Fe? I don't see many IEIs getting involved with drugs like I do SLE though. I mean I have sadly seen a lot of SLE women get involved in a lot of bad drug habits. So I do think the SLE typing is probably best or maybe EIE. Very Beta at any rate, I think.

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    @inaLim I am utterly fascinated by all the new bits of information of her I’m only now! discovering on her through your efforts. Wow. I’ve always wanted to grab my own copy of the “Thing of Beauty” book, and these few passages you’ve generously shared are only reinforcing that desire for me. I thought I ran across everything I could find out about her without the book itself already from hours of digging online— funnily enough, that Amazon review you pulled up with -questionable legitimacy-... well, I already stumbled upon that one, myself, some time back. Even if there’s no way to prove that it wasn’t just something someone pulled out of their ass for attention, it sounds very in tune with as much as we know about her and her legacy.

    And a legacy she truly left, because even if she wasn’t the most beautiful model in the world at the time, she possessed some sort of hypnotic beauty that is mentioned throughout these passages. And the thing is, she was very, very pretty but the magic actually laid in the way she carried herself. I think that is tenderly Beta, to be just as beautiful on the outside as you are ugly, and to let your outside self hypnotize the world so they can’t figure out whether you’re really ugly or really beautiful on the inside- outside is all that counts, anywho, right? I feel like her struggle with this was heightened even beyond the size of my own, extending to lengths that Fi PoLR DOES appear likely. You have fully convinced me on an SLE typing, and I think I’ve changed my mind on her enneagram too: seems sx 6w7 or sx 8w7 is more likely, and I lean with the former because there was genuine fear hiding behind some of her actions or outlooks and a preoccupation with Strength & Beauty seems to be what she’s all about. Her Se was quite reactive, as you pointed out yourself.

    But the thing is, her fear seemed 100% rooted from her intense paranoia of others’ true motivations and the ill will she believed they had towards her; it was fear she had of true, intimate vulnerability with other human beings, and though it seemed like it may have been over exaggerated, I don’t think it was totally irrational. It really did seem like she was hated, and even when people didn’t hate her she was constantly mistreated and neglected. I actually relate to a lot of her outlined issues- more than I would like to confess. But she is so goddamn Beta that it’s SCARY, regardless of which Beta type it is (LSI is easily crossed out ); I believe my infatuation with her came strictly from the fact that I’ve never stumbled upon someone that was alive on this Earth not crazy long before my own existence that seemed as Beta as me. Her rebellious attitude of doing the exact opposite of what she’s told even down to the example of her mom telling her to be home tonight and she wouldn’t be home till the next day- I’ve done that and I still do that! Last weekend I said I was only going to hangout and be back for the night and I ended up being gone for 4 days straight. It’s something so deeply programmed in me, I honestly don’t even mean to do shit like that even if I’m fully conscious of the decisions I make.

    But as much as we intersect, we do diverge- I can be hotheaded but truth be told I’m all bark if anything. I’ve never held a knife to anyone, I’ve never seriously threatened to or tried to kill anyone, I’ve never even been in a physical fight because I’ve never had to do things like that nor do I want to- I’m more energized by others taking such extreme actions. And so I don’t quite believe she was Fe base let alone 4D Fe because with that level of Fe, though many SEEs for example get into lots of fights or would possibly go to such extremes as holding a knife on someone... people with 4D Fe usually have a charm that allows them to bypass those sorts of things. At this point, I’m confident she is Beta extravert but SLE seems far more likely to me- the way they portray her in the movie is far more of a Beta NF or Gamma SF image (I’m entirely erasing the possibility of Gamma SF by now, too ), because it’s far more glamorous and beautiful that way. The one thing that really makes EIE still a possibility for me is that magic pull she had because the magical hold she had on everyone around her still lives beyond the grave, I think, because you seem very invested in uncovering her truth as I am. I do also relate to her being a very sweet kid that suddenly turned into a beast over night- that is a huge part of my own story and I think most Betas at some point in their life (from soft sweetie to corrupted menace is the most cliche storyline we see for Beta NFs in media, specifically, though SLE’s with their lifelong desire of conquering Fe and being loved for it, are not uncommonly sweet kids in the beginning that went rotten themselves).

    Another thing that separates us, though: as much as I can be fearful of close relationships with people- I am not totally oblivious in my perception of others or Fi matters and I don’t have as many glaring issues as a result. But where I believe I stand with others is still totally dependent on how they are treating me outwardly and it doesn’t matter if you’re my best friend and we’ve been hanging out non stop every day for a month in a row: the moment you cut off the affection you’ve been giving me externally is exactly the moment that I will become antsy and paranoid even though I logically know it probably doesn’t mean anything substantial- that’s where the Fi Ignoring rears it’s head. There have even been times where I’ve played around with the idea that I might be Fi PoLR myself, but that’s where me and Gia diverge yet again... I am a very transparent person especially emotionally- that’s another reason why my Fi must be Ignoring because I will over share my entire life from birth to death in the span of one afternoon with someone I just met because I’m probably trying to recruit them into the gang I’m rolling with.

    I’m certain now that SLE Sx/So is a very good fit for her. Beta NF is my next consideration, but I see her more as Ni seeking than wielding the Ni herself.
    Last edited by flames; 06-13-2021 at 01:51 PM. Reason: spelling


  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Openly gay, sweet-but-angry. Not respecting or liking cruelty. Testing others with how much rebellion and how much 'you' they are strong enough to withstand, being provocative. Being beautiful and smart and having other people being jealous.

    Feeling alone. Being sexual and flirty but in reality not being that promiscuous. Other people thinking she's more of a whore/slut than she really is. I deeply relate to all of this lol.
    All of this is exactly how I would describe myself and my life to a T.


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    All of this is exactly how I would describe myself and my life to a T.
    Betas of a feather and all that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post


    Betas of a feather and all that.
    Bitch shut up, that’s totally a pun I would crack myself, too.


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