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Thread: Duality experiences

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    Default Duality experiences

    A handful of questions incoming since I'm curious and would like to pool information on this topic.

    Re: anyone who has not experienced duality firsthand: Do you feel attracted to your duals, or do you prefer other types (which, and why)? Do you feel positive regarding duality, or are you cynical towards it?

    Re: anyone who has experienced duality firsthand: Did/does it corroborate Socionics literature on duality? Did you have the expected relational harmony with them, or do you find that Socionics over-hypes and exaggerates the benefits of duality? What has your dual helped you with, if anything?

    All takes on the subject are welcome. Just looking to understand how people generally view duality and how common it is or isn't.

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    I wouldn’t say I’m usually attracted to duals, no. I usually prefer intuitive types, especially Ne ego types — though my last relationship was with an SEI. As for why, I tend to find them more interesting. I’d say I’m somewhat cynical regarding duality.

    I’ve talked with ESEs at length before, if that counts as “experiencing duality.” We tend to get along pretty along well. I tend to think they’re not very good at thinking through things (mainly since they tend to come close to outright complaining about their inability to do it in general conversations) but friendly. Not sure if I’ve met a female ESE I’d want to marry. I don’t know that I’ve ever worked on anything together with a dual, so I don’t think I’ve ever been helped by one.
    Every man is as God made him, ay, and often worse. - Cervantes

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    I have experienced duality both in work and in romantic relationships. One precondition for duality to work properly, is psychological maturity, which include accepting yourself as you are (too many people have socialized concepts of who they are and want to be something they are not, and also have unfitting expectations of what kind of other persons fit them). If that condition has been met, than what happens in duality is that you feel accepted as you are, there is no need to alter your behavior to meet the other person, also, you see no need to alter the behavior of the other person, what he or she does is already what you agree with. If you are looking for a relationship that brings you high exaltation, your dual is probably not going to provide it. Which is also the reason lots of people don't hook up with their duals: their unrealistic expectations are in the way of making it happen.

    The downside of duality, ime, is that there is no initial physical attraction, the other person only becomes interesting after some close interaction has taken place. This is because we are blind to the behaviors of our duals, it looks like they are persons that do nothing positively remarkable at all. They certainly have identities of their own, but we are blind to the aspects of these identities, which makes them look ordinary and bland. This is why we typically have no feelings such as awe for the qualities of our duals.

    All of this is different in Activity partners, there can be initial attraction from a distance and instant rapport on first contact. The psychological distance is closed very fast, but differences in approaches, needs and want also come quite fast.

    So yes, duality fits the Socionics descriptions.

    ETA: I must make a minor adjustment here: I said that with your dual you feel accepted as you are. But that is not the right way to say it. Some people make you feel accepted, others make you feel rejected, and others make you feel somewhere in between. In duality, topics such as acceptance and rejection are no longer issues in the emotional domain, no longer topics to ruminate about. Things just are as they are, and that's all there is too it.
    Last edited by consentingadult; 04-30-2020 at 09:43 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    The downside of duality, ime, is that there is no initial physical attraction, the other person only becomes interesting after some close interaction has taken place. This is because we are blind to the behaviors of our duals, it looks like they are persons that do nothing positively remarkable at all. They certainly have identities of their own, but we are blind to the aspects of these identities, which makes them look ordinary and bland. This is why we typically have no feelings such as awe for the qualities of our duals.
    What relations do we tend to be more physically attracted to and drawn to initially? Who do we frequently "end up" with, until it blows up further down the line?

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    I have experienced duality both in work and in romantic relationships. One precondition for duality to work properly, is psychological maturity, which include accepting yourself as you are (too many people have socialized concepts of who they are and want to be something they are not, and also have unfitting expectations of what kind of other persons fit them). If that condition has been met, than what happens in duality is that you feel accepted as you are, there is no need to alter your behavior to meet the other person, also, you see no need to alter the behavior of the other person, what he or she does is already what you agree with. If you are looking for a relationship that brings you high exaltation, your dual is probably not going to provide it. Which is also the reason lots of people don't hook up with their duals: their unrealistic expectations are in the way of making it happen.

    The downside of duality, ime, is that there is no initial physical attraction, the other person only becomes interesting after some close interaction has taken place. This is because we are blind to the behaviors of our duals, it looks like they are persons that do nothing positively remarkable at all. They certainly have identities of their own, but we are blind to the aspects of these identities, which makes them look ordinary and bland. This is why we typically have no feelings such as awe for the qualities of our duals.

    All of this is different in Activity partners, there can be initial attraction from a distance and instant rapport on first contact. The psychological distance is closed very fast, but differences in approaches, needs and want also come quite fast.

    So yes, duality fits the Socionics descriptions.

    ETA: I must make a minor adjustment here: I said that with your dual you feel accepted as you are. But that is not the right way to say it. Some people make you feel accepted, others make you feel rejected, and others make you feel somewhere in between. In duality, topics such as acceptance and rejection are no longer issues in the emotional domain, no longer topics to ruminate about. Things just are as they are, and that's all there is too it.
    This description fits "compatible" subtypes. The less compatible duals tend to look more interesting even at a distance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    I have experienced duality both in work and in romantic relationships. One precondition for duality to work properly, is psychological maturity, which include accepting yourself as you are (too many people have socialized concepts of who they are and want to be something they are not, and also have unfitting expectations of what kind of other persons fit them). If that condition has been met, than what happens in duality is that you feel accepted as you are, there is no need to alter your behavior to meet the other person, also, you see no need to alter the behavior of the other person, what he or she does is already what you agree with. If you are looking for a relationship that brings you high exaltation, your dual is probably not going to provide it. Which is also the reason lots of people don't hook up with their duals: their unrealistic expectations are in the way of making it happen.<br>
    <br>
    The downside of duality, ime, is that there is no initial physical attraction, the other person only becomes interesting after some close interaction has taken place. This is because we are blind to the behaviors of our duals, it looks like they are persons that do nothing positively remarkable at all. They certainly have identities of their own, but we are blind to the aspects of these identities, which makes them look ordinary and bland. This is why we typically have no feelings such as awe for the qualities of our duals.<br>
    <br>
    All of this is different in Activity partners, there can be initial attraction from a distance and instant rapport on first contact. The psychological distance is closed very fast, but differences in approaches, needs and want also come quite fast.<br>
    <br>
    So yes, duality fits the Socionics descriptions.<br>
    <br>
    ETA: I must make a minor adjustment here: I said that with your dual you feel accepted as you are. But that is not the right way to say it. Some people make you feel accepted, others make you feel rejected, and others make you feel somewhere in between. In duality, topics such as acceptance and rejection are no longer issues in the emotional domain, no longer topics to ruminate about. Things just are as they are, and that's all there is too it.
    <br>
    This description fits "compatible" subtypes. The less compatible duals tend to look more interesting even at a distance.
    For example, a LII-Ne and ESE-Si will tend to consider each other less interesting than LII-Ti and ESE-Si

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreenfaerie View Post
    What relations do we tend to be more physically attracted to and drawn to initially?
    "Imago"

    Who do we frequently "end up" with, until it blows up further down the line?
    Depends on individual. Typologically, some will be stuck on the Imago stage. Some will mature to Duals. Typologically, Duals are our best partners. This is because Duals are most comfortable doing the things we are -least comfortable- with. But. humanistically - practically - could a non-Dual be 'better' and also entirely willing to do things in our "weak regions"? Sure.

    I'm not advocating Astrology has the answers, but it has an abstract parallel for this. H5="romance", fun, drama, in other words our Imago. H7=the qualities/traits we lack or are deficient in, aka our "weak regions" in Socionics terms. It takes maturity to see past the immediate now - what we find "fun" - and not -just- realize and admit our deficiencies but also make the conscious choice to forgo immediate fulfillment(H5) for what's better for us long-term. Btw, H5 isn't necessarily != H7 - some people have an interlink.

    As with "Duals" in Socionics, H7="open enemies". Duals can be enemies, because their Ego defends their way of 'being' as "the "right" way" (-> ours are opposite theirs). This is why getting along with Duals takes maturity.


    Practically speaking though, a lot don't ever get to H7. Maybe they have a kid with an H5er and they choose to submit to their culture which says kid's parent=one and only, or their life is just too eventful so they never grow from H5->H7, or ... yadda yadda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatrop View Post
    <br>
    This description fits "compatible" subtypes. The less compatible duals tend to look more interesting even at a distance.
    For example, a LII-Ne and ESE-Si will tend to consider each other less interesting than LII-Ti and ESE-Si
    In all honesty, in the 15 years that I have been involved in Socionics, I have never really grasped the concept of subtypes. Perhaps some day...
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreenfaerie View Post
    What relations do we tend to be more physically attracted to and drawn to initially? Who do we frequently "end up" with, until it blows up further down the line?
    My experience: I 'd say Activity first, it is real easy to start, but exhausting.

    Also, your mirage could be very attractive, because they share the even numbered function with your dual, so you can relate to that. At the same time they will try to trigger you into using your role function, which in the long runs makes you behave like an arse, and the first one that is going to be bothered by that, is you yourself:

    http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.co...-function.html
    http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.co...n-by-ilis.html

    In the case of IEEs, super-egos can also be very attractive, but is this is a general thing or just IEE-SLE, I don't know. What I do know is that this relationship between IEEs and SLEs, when romantic, can be quite a roller coaster ride, each type increasingly going more out of bounds with their super-ego functions. For an IEE male, an SLE female can be the "bitch that did everything", after which you have been spoiled for the rest of your life:



    And finally, you semi-dual of course. This is probably the second best after duality. Problems and frustrations can arise, but there are enough things in common to work out such issues and overcome them.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    This is very helpful and makes a lot of sense, thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    My experience: I 'd say Activity first, it is real easy to start, but exhausting.

    Also, your mirage could be very attractive, because they share the even numbered function with your dual, so you can relate to that. At the same time they will try to trigger you into using your role function, which in the long runs makes you behave like an arse, and the first one that is going to be bothered by that, is you yourself:

    http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.co...-function.html
    http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.co...n-by-ilis.html

    In the case of IEEs, super-egos can also be very attractive, but is this is a general thing or just IEE-SLE, I don't know. What I do know is that this relationship between IEEs and SLEs, when romantic, can be quite a roller coaster ride, each type increasingly going more out of bounds with their super-ego functions. For an IEE male, an SLE female can be the "bitch that did everything", after which you have been spoiled for the rest of your life:



    And finally, you semi-dual of course. This is probably the second best after duality. Problems and frustrations can arise, but there are enough things in common to work out such issues and overcome them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Control View Post
    In my experience, dualization is a long-term process of becoming more yourself through interaction with a dual who reinforces your own individuality. Shedding the bullshit that isn't you. Sort of like mutually sculpting each other into a more perfected version of yourselves. It's a very efficient way to become more well-realized as an individual. One thing a dual does not help you do is overcome your PoLR (which is impossible). Rather, a dual will help you feel as if there's nothing about you which needs to be fixed or changed in the first place.
    100% from my experience. But I think for this to happen, people need to accept themselves as they are and face their weak spots. Some maturity needed. That's why they say imo "you need to be ready"... If you are not ready you will flee from such relationship.

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    The girl i'mma be getting official with soon uwu and two of my best friends. They're all great people. Tho my male SLI friend is like the most misunderstood guy on earth.

    I honestly like SLI's coz they're not easily noticeable. I don't like remarkable people, I tend to see them as show offs and I dislike that. So i'm glad my duals are the most "autistic" in a way and that they often show themselves plain and simple. I prefer that over any diva type.

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    For 15 years, my dual and I have lived in harmony in that we are very helpful to one another and don't stand in each other's way. There's also a lot of mutual respect and trust but the relationship is more akin to a close working partnership. However, after the honeymoon is over with any relationship, all that remains is a partnership. I've had far more intense romantic relationships with superego because there seemed to be a better understanding or at least recognition of one another's internal processes, and also the working partnerships were fairly strong even though we seemed to have occasionally gotten in each other's way. Duality is overrated but if my relationship is any example, there's also some credence to those relationships being slightly superior if longevity is a goal - that is, if they can get started in the first place, which is a real challenge with all that personal baggage lying around......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Control View Post
    In my experience, dualization is a long-term process of becoming more yourself through interaction with a dual who reinforces your own individuality. Shedding the bullshit that isn't you. Sort of like mutually sculpting each other into a more perfected version of yourselves. It's a very efficient way to become more well-realized as an individual. One thing a dual does not help you do is overcome your PoLR (which is impossible). Rather, a dual will help you feel as if there's nothing about you which needs to be fixed or changed in the first place.
    Yes to this! I acted out in a fairly stereotypical EIE way recently and got scolded by an SEE, ESI and EII for it. I was building up drama for the sake of drama, prioritising emotions over sincerity and relationships. LSI supported me in doing it in the first place and I think was more disappointed in the fact I apologised than in the fact I misbehaved in the first place.
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    been dating my partner for over a year now and im pretty sure it's duality because we just can't get enough of eachother (even with the fights - but those are rare and very brief)

    we help each other become our best selves, are 1000% always comfortable with each other (to the point where farting on each other is a thing), and the sexual chemistry is just out of the roof

    he helps motivate me to achieve my goals and dreams and to stop being such a fuckin potato (esp when it comes to being sad) and i help him make sense of his feelings and feel more at home with being himself

    we've lived nearly entirely different lifestyles and our personalities are even opposite, but our goals and values are all the same so that helped a lot with our relationship too- esp with things being long distance right now

    honestly cant wait to see what else the future has in store for us before him ive dated IEI and 2 SEEs- and uhhhh the only thing i can say is that we got along really well but ehh. not gonna say too much LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Something View Post
    The girl i'mma be getting official with soon uwu and two of my best friends. They're all great people. Tho my male SLI friend is like the most misunderstood guy on earth.

    I honestly like SLI's coz they're not easily noticeable. I don't like remarkable people, I tend to see them as show offs and I dislike that. So i'm glad my duals are the most "autistic" in a way and that they often show themselves plain and simple. I prefer that over any diva type.
    This fits with description of our dual pair, here, "The characteristic features of this dual pair are the independence from each other, as well as from others, harmony of relations and a restless spirit of creativity and self-development." Yes, and it's hard to be independent from the world and have space for creativity and self-development when you are too remarkable. IEEs can sometimes tend towards remarkable, but it seems to me we prefer to be under the radar most of the time (except those few times we enjoy the spotlight, which we prefer to be exposed to in our time, our way).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Something View Post
    The girl i'mma be getting official with soon uwu and two of my best friends. They're all great people. Tho my male SLI friend is like the most misunderstood guy on earth.

    I honestly like SLI's coz they're not easily noticeable. I don't like remarkable people, I tend to see them as show offs and I dislike that. So i'm glad my duals are the most "autistic" in a way and that they often show themselves plain and simple. I prefer that over any diva type.
    I've been through too much Beta drama and drama in general for one lifetime, so I feel you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    I've been through too much Beta drama and drama in general for one lifetime, so I feel you.
    Betas are stupid as shit lmao. I don't take back anything i say about them, I think they're objectively toxic and pitiful yet badass-wannabe. Telling people not to be little bitches while being the most bitchy themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Something View Post
    Betas are stupid as shit lmao. I don't take back anything i say about them, I think they're objectively toxic and pitiful yet badass-wannabe. Telling people not to be little bitches while being the most bitchy themselves.
    Dude. You have no idea how exactly true that seems to me at times. I've seen Betas try to bully people after running away scared as fuck from their own bullies. And they start shit a lot of the time and then when they get their asses handed to them start pointing fingers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Dude. You have no idea how exactly true that seems to me at times. I've seen Betas try to bully people after running away scared as fuck from their own bullies. And they start shit a lot of the time and then when they get their asses handed to them start pointing fingers.
    I don't value Se. But i've often have to put them in their places and they start playing victim, like holy fuck, even their Beta values say they're victimizing whores. They deserve what they get tbh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Something View Post
    I don't value Se. But i've often have to put them in their places and they start playing victim, like holy fuck, even their Beta values say they're victimizing whores. They deserve what they get tbh.
    In Star Wars, the Rebellion against the Empire got started because Palpatine (EIE) played games with the people he ruled over. He had some rivalry with some dude and they fought a lot. It was his own desire to fuck with shit that led to his eventual downfall. Once he had power he didn't know what to do with it, so he invented plots and schemes that were totally unnecessary. He would pit people against each other etc. It was out of that chaos that the Rebellion formed.

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    If we assume for a moment that I'm ILI, I might be able to tell a duality story. I occasionally think I might be one, so it works out.

    I once went to a bar with an LSE. We were sitting at a table against the wall, and an EII woman sat down next to me. She started feeling me up and rubbing on my thigh. She asked if I was gay because I didn't respond to what she was doing. I said yes. She said part of why she sat down next to me was to get away from some guy who wouldn't leave her alone. Me and the EII talked and the LSE was silent. At some point, an EIE darted up and burned me on the knee with his cigarette. That's the guy she was trying to get away from.

    Suddenly, an SEE walks up out of nowhere and says he was sitting against the wall towards the back, and saw what happened. He asked if there was a problem. I was like, no I'm ok. So he sat back down again. LSE of course didn't really do much during all this except sit there and drink and watch what went on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Palpatine (EIE)
    Thank you! I'm not the only person who thinks so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Thank you! I'm not the only person who thinks so.
    What do others think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    What do others think?
    When I first joined up, many people were saying that Palpatine is LIE, Vader is ESI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    When I first joined up, many people were saying that Palpatine is LIE, Vader is ESI.
    No. EIE LSI. ENFx are the big politicians. LIEs are nerds. Plus, dialectical algorithmic leads to the two sided personality.

    EIE can be nerds but often it's for stuff that gets them social power.

    EIE in my experience are capable of being some of the most deceptive people. Maybe others find them easier to see through but that's kind of a trope for them.

    Jekyll and Hyde. The EIE is it, but the LSI Hydes in plain sight.
    Last edited by Aramas; 05-05-2020 at 02:30 AM.

  27. #27
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    When I first joined up, many people were saying that Palpatine is LIE, Vader is ESI.
    I remember that thread. Palpatine as LIE seemed like a real stretch then, and seems ridiculous to me now, but Vader as ESI is just nuts.

    And yes, I could see Palpatine as EIE.

    Truthfully, I don't have any sense of Vader's type. He seems like an artificial construction to me.

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    Aramas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I remember that thread. Palpatine as LIE seemed like a real stretch then, and seems ridiculous to me now, but Vader as ESI is just nuts.

    And yes, I could see Palpatine as EIE.

    Truthfully, I don't have any sense of Vader's type. He seems like an artificial construction to me.
    Technically, he is.

  29. #29
    Aaron Something's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    If we assume for a moment that I'm ILI, I might be able to tell a duality story. I occasionally think I might be one, so it works out.

    I once went to a bar with an LSE. We were sitting at a table against the wall, and an EII woman sat down next to me. She started feeling me up and rubbing on my thigh. She asked if I was gay because I didn't respond to what she was doing. I said yes. She said part of why she sat down next to me was to get away from some guy who wouldn't leave her alone. Me and the EII talked and the LSE was silent. At some point, an EIE darted up and burned me on the knee with his cigarette. That's the guy she was trying to get away from.

    Suddenly, an SEE walks up out of nowhere and says he was sitting against the wall towards the back, and saw what happened. He asked if there was a problem. I was like, no I'm ok. So he sat back down again. LSE of course didn't really do much during all this except sit there and drink and watch what went on.
    All the people but the SEE in this story make me nervous.

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