Surviving Supervision Relationships

[carolynrae]

Hi all!

I'm quite new to Socionics, but have been reading about intertype relations for the past few months. After careful thought and deliberation, I've come to the conclusion that I am in a relationship of supervision. I'm an IEE and my boyfriend is an LII. We've been together about a year and a half (and have lived together for a year.) I'm 23 and he is 25. At first I thought he might be an IEI, and that Contrary/Extinguishment made more sense, but the further I study up on functions, the more I realize that is just not the case.

He is a wonderful human being, and I am very much in love with him. To me, he has a certain strength that I do not. He's much more of a concrete realist. Of course, over time I've noticed the trends of audit. Even before I got into Socionics (back in high school, we've known each other for 8 years), I always wondered why I looked up to him so much. But... as explained by this relation... I don't think he's ever given me the same degree of mutual admiration. He doesn't value my strong functions in the way I value his. He is very loving... and I have learned, over time, not to take his constructive criticism personally. I KNOW he means well, and that he is quite correct in trying to help me catch my blindspots. I just wish, at times, he would hold my opinions and advice to a higher degree. I know I am just as intelligent and capable as he is (He has agreed that he thinks I am very intelligent)... though I don't think he necessarily holds my brand of intelligence to as high a regard as I hold his. Besides that, I could not ask for a more loving and doting partner. He truly is my best friend. We get along wonderfully and have so much in common. All he wants to do is provide me with the best possible outcomes in life. I do not see him as a threat.

Now...I'm not here to debate the nature of my relationship. I'm here in the hopes of finding a possible solution or guideline when it comes to helping him understand my way of thinking a little bit better. Why is it that I can view his POV (which, though quite different and foreign from mine) as valuable, but he cannot (most times) see the same beauty in our differences? Neither way of thinking is "incorrect." Why must one way be labeled as so?

I'd like to ask those who have been in a similar situation the following:
1. Are you and your partner still together?
2. (If so) What is the best style of communication that works positively for you? Was it possible to teach your partner a more tolerant understanding?
3. (If not) How long did it last, and what was your breaking point?

Disclaimer: I'm not here for false hope. I know and have thoroughly researched the outcomes of such a pairing. I just wanted first hand experience. All opinions welcome!

[DirectorAbbie]

I can affirm that supervision works well for friendships. But I see that you already know you're best friends.
I don't have personal experience with a mutual supervision relationship of a romantic nature. But it's been said that one should marry one's best friend. So that's something.

[Lord Pixel]

Well, it will be difficult for him to respect your brand of intelligence until he sees it in practice. What you are asking him to do is respect something that works in direct opposition to his strongest function, if you are indeed asking him to respect your brand of Te. Then he would have to respect something that opposes his Ti. And Te to Ti seems shallow and not truly informed, just focused on the result and not on the technical detail, brash, quick, lacking in depth of analysis. This can seem "stupid" to 4D Ti. So yea it will be a challenge to get his respect in that regard, but I'm sure if he runs into a problem that your Te can easily fix he might see the value in it. I'm sure you respect his Ti intellect mostly because it is such a challenge for you, so the admiration makes sense to be one sided. It simply is just much easier for you to admire his intellect given your weakness, I don't think you are ever gonna get the same kind of admiration from him that you have for him, as unfair as it sounds, simply just because of your position, you are blind where he has tremendous sight. And where you have sight, he feels like that sight is less than his own, so there you have your situation, not sure much can be done apart from challenging him to apply his Ti and seeing your Te shine in application rather than depth of analysis, but this might breed something other than admiration, like either envy or disdain for making him look stupid, since Ti HATES to be wrong or look stupid. Good Luck.

FWIW I have an ESFP at my job who is always challenging this Ti user, and he largely looks silly debating the guy, so what the does it suck the guy into a conversation the ESFP himself is well versed in and then it just turns into a conversation than a debate because the Ti user just listens and doesn't try to show off knowledge he doesn't have, so ESFPs plan to look superior foils there. Moral of the story, don't go toe- to toe with something who is strong in your blindspot.

[falsehope]

Well, if you ask for supervision relationship, then yes, it can work for marriage. I am married now several years with my EII wife and there isn't anything concerning about it - she does what she thinks is right, and I do my stuff.

The exact nature of your relationship depends on what kind of person is your boyfriend i.e. how much psycho he is. Unfortunately, LII score high on my psycho scale, the way that they even without supervision will be trying to direct others by their own point of view and they are doing it naturally. So I've been in some sort of relationship with many LII and usually I had to clearly oppose instead of just saying yes to things they wanted me to do. It's because they are quite stubborn thinking their logic is absolute and correct while they are always many other important factors which their logic doesn't take into account, they usually skip many details and because of that they are often misguided. Another thing is that most people prefer to think and act on their own and not listen to directions of someone else. And in this regard LII is a bit psycho because he believe that with his logic he is entitled to direct people.
Another important psycho-factor is how much asshole he is. I.e. if he will be arrogant with his remarks, will be exaggerating them, being negative towards you and using anything what comes to his head against you.

And these factors are important because in supervision relation ship they will be very important.

Regarding supervision relationship, these relationships as well any other kind of relatoionship are just some sort of illusions and you can avoid them by communicating very slowly, methodically, without much emotions, using your rational function clearly. This way theoretically any two types can have normal relationship because there isn't anything built in which makes you incompatible, it's just your hasty impressions, irrationality and bad communication. There is something like universal language all humans can communicate and solve common issues. Unfortunately not everyone is capable of thinking and speaking like that, usually the ethical types go with their emotions, so I think it will be job on your side to make sure you communicate your ideas rationally.

Simply speaking, if he's not crazy, and you're not crazy, that should work pretty much OK. Otherwise if you fall for that supervision because you do not communicate well (because he is asshole and you just can't do that), the resulting supervision relationship might be unbearable.

[Adam Strange]

Hi all!

I'm quite new to Socionics, but have been reading about intertype relations for the past few months. After careful thought and deliberation, I've come to the conclusion that I am in a relationship of supervision. I'm an IEE and my boyfriend is an LII. We've been together about a year and a half (and have lived together for a year.) I'm 23 and he is 25. At first I thought he might be an IEI, and that Contrary/Extinguishment made more sense, but the further I study up on functions, the more I realize that is just not the case.

He is a wonderful human being, and I am very much in love with him. To me, he has a certain strength that I do not. He's much more of a concrete realist. Of course, over time I've noticed the trends of audit. Even before I got into Socionics (back in high school, we've known each other for 8 years), I always wondered why I looked up to him so much. But... as explained by this relation... I don't think he's ever given me the same degree of mutual admiration. He doesn't value my strong functions in the way I value his. He is very loving... and I have learned, over time, not to take his constructive criticism personally. I KNOW he means well, and that he is quite correct in trying to help me catch my blindspots. I just wish, at times, he would hold my opinions and advice to a higher degree. I know I am just as intelligent and capable as he is (He has agreed that he thinks I am very intelligent)... though I don't think he necessarily holds my brand of intelligence to as high a regard as I hold his. Besides that, I could not ask for a more loving and doting partner. He truly is my best friend. We get along wonderfully and have so much in common. All he wants to do is provide me with the best possible outcomes in life. I do not see him as a threat.

Now...I'm not here to debate the nature of my relationship. I'm here in the hopes of finding a possible solution or guideline when it comes to helping him understand my way of thinking a little bit better. Why is it that I can view his POV (which, though quite different and foreign from mine) as valuable, but he cannot (most times) see the same beauty in our differences? Neither way of thinking is "incorrect." Why must one way be labeled as so?

I'd like to ask those who have been in a similar situation the following:
1. Are you and your partner still together?
2. (If so) What is the best style of communication that works positively for you? Was it possible to teach your partner a more tolerant understanding?
3. (If not) How long did it last, and what was your breaking point?

Disclaimer: I'm not here for false hope. I know and have thoroughly researched the outcomes of such a pairing. I just wanted first hand experience. All opinions welcome!

I married my Supervisor. I've written extensively about that relationship on this site, and you can probably find most relevant posts by doing an advanced search. But to answer your questions,
1. We are not still together. We are divorced. She calls me about once every six weeks to invite me to dinner, or when she needs someone to take her somewhere, but otherwise, no. I've moved on.
2. My partner and I were almost perfectly matched from a social, intellectual, and world-view standpoint. We communicated very well regarding the things we had in common (Te), and very poorly for the things we did not (Si). Overall, SLI's are not that talkative. To her credit, she never tried to tell me what to do, and that is probably why the relationship lasted as long as it did. Other than that accommodation, she never really changed her approach to me, despite my requests and complaints and our many mutual therapy sessions.
3. Our marriage lasted over fifteen years. The "breaking point" came when I came home one day and found a moving van in front of the house. I said, "Helen, what's going on?" She, moving furniture into the van, said "I'm leaving." I wondered if she was leaving right now to move the furniture into a storage locker because she had bought all new, so I asked "Where are you going?" and she said "I'm not telling you", and then I realized that she wasn't just leaving the house for an afternoon trip, she was leaving the marriage.

My present feelings on Supervision are that the Supervised always looks up to the Supervisor, and the Supervisor always thinks the Supervisee is an idiot.
I tested this once after she left. My son is also an SLI, and when he was in his low teens (I can't remember exactly when this happened), we were driving somewhere in an S-class Mercedes and I asked him if he thought I was an idiot. He instantly became uncomfortable and said nothing. I tried again. "Son, do you think I make bad decisions?"
This time he replied. He said, "Dad, all of your decisions are bad."
How he came to this conclusion, when he was aware that his mother and I started our marriage with nothing (she was actually in debt) and I had been running an increasingly profitable business since he was born, is beyond objective reconning. It is not, however, beyond the purview of Socionics.

In my opinion, these feelings are ingrained and can be hidden or ignored for a while, but not changed.

*EDIT* I know you didn't ask for comments on your present relationship, but let me tell you a short story example about EII's and SLI's.
My ex-wife's sister is IEE-Ne, and my ex-wife is SLI-Te, as is my son (This is a non-optimum match of dual sub-types). Both my ex-wife and my son think the IEE-Ne is crazy random and they actually can't stand to be around her very much, but I've seen them all work together and I've never had any doubt that they mesh incredibly well because of their shared values. I have a bookkeeper who is IEE-Fi, and she and my SLI-Te son get along better than any two humans I've ever seen (despite their age differences, which actually aren't seen by socionics functions). And SLI's are not the easiest people to get close to, since they hoard their resources, which include their wealth, their space, and their time.
After my divorce, I found an IEE-Ne guy and told my wife she should consider him. She visited him for a weekend to help him with a party he was hosting, and when she returned, I asked her how it went. She said, "He's pretty scattered.", which meant No. So sub-types matter a lot.

[Sol]

I'm quite new to Socionics, but have been reading about intertype relations for the past few months. After careful thought and deliberation, I've come to the conclusion that I am in a relationship of supervision. I'm an IEE and my boyfriend is an LII.

Would be good if you started with the checking of own type (by IR with many people near you) and to spend some years on watching people of different types to be sure in own typing skills. Your IR can be other, so what you'll hear may be not related to your situation.

> I don't think he's ever given me the same degree of mutual admiration. He doesn't value my strong functions in the way I value his.

revisor respects your 1st function and admire your strong 8th, what you may show sometimes

> He truly is my best friend. We get along wonderfully and have so much in common. All he wants to do is provide me with the best possible outcomes in life. I do not see him as a threat.

mb your IR are better than you think. good IR is about friendship abbility

> Why is it that I can view his POV (which, though quite different and foreign from mine)

LII's pov is also weak unvalued at IEE. the both types have rather similar understanding of this region
while IEE's Ti for LII is other situation - it's his strong valued

> 1. Are you and your partner still together?

I had revisor (ILI -> LSE) girl sympathy to me. I liked her to some degree too. Mb we could to have a romance, but after semidual girl she looked boring for me. On sensory and logical levels we'd could to get the interesting communications.

> 2. (If so) What is the best style of communication that works positively for you? Was it possible to teach your partner a more tolerant understanding?

Mb she'd could to like my Se "machism", which would be not so hard to show. In Te discussions we'd get no problems at all. This could be sexually and rationally inspired union. If to do all correctly, the both felt not bad and this would helped be tolerant to each other in other themes. As we'd valued the union if we felt good in it, hence wanted to understand and accept each other higher in general.

> 3. (If not) How long did it last, and what was your breaking point?

We studed together for some years. Then it finished and some later she said about the interest to me, but I had no significant to her. I had the interest to other one. Without seeing me regularly she has switched to other man quickly, as had nothing serious to me too. There was no strong attraction, no strong feelings and no romance. Mb if we'd had the relations - then stronger feeling made it harder to break.

> I know and have thoroughly researched the outcomes of such a pairing.

Outcomes depend not only from types, but also your efforts to love. In better IR to love is easier, - this is the main difference.
If you love, feel as loved - you feel good.
And you may to have other IR than you think, as you are "quite new".

[Rebelondeck]

Male LII-Ti had a one year relationship with a female IEE-Ne; she ended it, likely due to the grass-is-greener syndrome because months later she unsuccessfully attempted to rekindle the relationship. Communication was excellent and the LII did not view her opinions as inferior nor did she think his was superior; however, both likely realized that they weren't exactly headed in the same direction. To him, she seemed to treat everything too casually including her relationships and her life was totally unstructured but that's the way she wanted it. She seemed to appreciate yet resent that the LII often cleaned up after her and fixed her things.

a.k.a. I/O

[Bertrand]

uh I think that's the wrong way to think about it, you're not going to meet him where he has the high ground, you just need to learn to appreciate his advice on that point and he needs to learn to respect you on your strong points

[carolynrae]

Well, it will be difficult for him to respect your brand of intelligence until he sees it in practice. What you are asking him to do is respect something that works in direct opposition to his strongest function, if you are indeed asking him to respect your brand of Te. Then he would have to respect something that opposes his Ti. And Te to Ti seems shallow and not truly informed, just focused on the result and not on the technical detail, brash, quick, lacking in depth of analysis. This can seem "stupid" to 4D Ti. So yea it will be a challenge to get his respect in that regard, but I'm sure if he runs into a problem that your Te can easily fix he might see the value in it. I'm sure you respect his Ti intellect mostly because it is such a challenge for you, so the admiration makes sense to be one sided. It simply is just much easier for you to admire his intellect given your weakness, I don't think you are ever gonna get the same kind of admiration from him that you have for him, as unfair as it sounds, simply just because of your position, you are blind where he has tremendous sight. And where you have sight, he feels like that sight is less than his own, so there you have your situation, not sure much can be done apart from challenging him to apply his Ti and seeing your Te shine in application rather than depth of analysis, but this might breed something other than admiration, like either envy or disdain for making him look stupid, since Ti HATES to be wrong or look stupid. Good Luck.

FWIW I have an ESFP at my job who is always challenging this Ti user, and he largely looks silly debating the guy, so what the does it suck the guy into a conversation the ESFP himself is well versed in and then it just turns into a conversation than a debate because the Ti user just listens and doesn't try to show off knowledge he doesn't have, so ESFPs plan to look superior foils there. Moral of the story, don't go toe- to toe with something who is strong in your blindspot.

This helps more than you know.

How can I better challenge his Ti? And how can I bring forward my Te in a way where it will be seen in a respectable light?

[carolynrae]

uh I think that's the wrong way to think about it, you're not going to meet him where he has the high ground, you just need to learn to appreciate his advice on that point and he needs to learn to respect you on your strong points

Understood.

Any advice on helping him better respect my strong points?

[carolynrae]

Male LII-Ti had a one year relationship with a female IEE-Ne; she ended it, likely due to the grass-is-greener syndrome because months later she unsuccessfully attempted to rekindle the relationship. Communication was excellent and the LII did not view her opinions as inferior nor did she think his was superior; however, both likely realized that they weren't exactly headed in the same direction. To him, she seemed to treat everything too casually including her relationships and her life was totally unstructured but that's the way she wanted it. She seemed to appreciate yet resent that the LII often cleaned up after her and fixed her things.

a.k.a. I/O

Did he see her unstructured lifestyle as a deal breaker or more as a quirk that came with loving her?

[Xaiviay]

Hi, Carolynrae! I'm glad to hear you have such an overall loving and beneficial relationship. Yes, supervision relationships can be good. I was in a long-term relationship with my supervisor once before, so maybe I can help

One thing you have going for you, is that your demonstrative function is their dual-seeking function. Your demonstrative function is one of your strongest abilities, but typically it's not one you value for it's own sake. For you, this is Fe (extraverted feeling). For a LII, this is the information element they want most from other people. You should have the ability to give this to him with ease, and he might depend on you and look up to you in this area.

Here's a quote about LII's Fe from here: http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/types/LII-INTj/

LIIs are usually lacking in outward emotional energy. LIIs may typically seem stiff, cold, rational, unresponsive to emotional concerns, and overly formal in social settings. LIIs may feel uneasy and insecure about their adaptability to social situations. They appreciate the interactive efforts of others to make them feel comfortable, at ease, and a part of the group. They tend to liven up in situations of amusement and conviviality. In situations where they feel comfortable and unconditionally accepted, they may drop their tendency towards aloofness and engage in uncharacteristic silliness.

LIIs may be highly sensitive to the signs of emotional approval that they receive from others. They may be highly appreciative of displays of emotional warmth and friendliness. They may find normative emotional expectations placed on them to be stifling, and tend to prefer nonjudgmental environments without character scrutiny. Additionally, for fear of emotional reprisal, LIIs often tend to be rather noncritical of others' actions.

LIIs may be quite susceptible to acting in accordance to the mood of others, and may undervalue the importance of avoiding argumentation on their mental well-being.

For you to personally consider, this is the description of Fe in IEEs (yours ): http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/types/IEE-ENFp/

The IEE appreciates situations where people are enjoying a positive emotional atmosphere as in having fun and joking together, and is quite adept at creating them himself, but does not see creating or promoting them a top priority, nor does he actively look for people who maintain or need such an atmosphere; too high a focus on that is seen by an IEE as overdone. He can be very empathetic and will frequently comfort his friends and acquaintances, mostly letting them vent to him, offering suggestions as to what to do about it. These are usually practical. The IEE may offer a more optimistic viewpoint, but will not press the matter if the optimism is not received well. He is usually genuinely concerned, but refuses to let the negative energy affect him. This may eventually become tiring if it persists as he will feel guilty for being happy in the face of those close to him being miserable. The IEE does not like conflict between people one bit; he would rather stay on everyone's good side and keep in good terms with both sides of a conflict, preferring not to be judged by his affiliation with one side or another. In such situations he says very little that would give away where he truly sides on an issue.

The only problem is, this isn't a function you care about using very much, so you might not feel like you're being admired for what you'd really like to be :/ You could be bored when using it, or feel imposed upon by him. However, it's still quite easy to do, and if you have many other positive non-type-related things going for you two (which by the sound of it, you definitely do ) it could be helpful to both of you.

This worked with my supervisor partner, and it made life better for both of us. He actually came out and admitted I was better at some things than he was, and that he needed my input, so I felt valued and respected too. This relationship happened long before I discovered Socionics, so it's kind of interesting to look back at how it played out. In the beginning I did look up to him and even feel intimidated by him. I became more assertive than I usually am, wanting him to appreciate me too. I got him to listen and take my ethical judgements seriously (Fi--my demonstrative function, his dual-seeking function). I validated his moral rectitude when he wanted it, gently pointed him in a better direction when his moral judgements were off-base, and pointed out underlying aspects of his relationships with other people that he tended to be blind to. He was open to my input, and relied on it, so I began to feel like we were equals in the relationship pretty quickly.

Since you asked about whether or not the relationship ended and why....basically we just broke up because I wasn't fulfilled in the relationship for two reasons. The biggest reason was non-type-related. The other was I couldn't feel connected with him on a deep spiritual level. We are both caregiver types in this typing sytem, and apparently it's typical for the female caregiver to feel a lack of spiritual connection in a relationship with another caregiver. We both tried everything to make it work, but in the end I was happier after I became single again. It was painful, for both of us, but at least we parted amicably and were good friends until the end.

[Bertrand]

Understood.

Any advice on helping him better respect my strong points?

introduce him to socionics, LIIs tend to like it

[Rebelondeck]

Did he see her unstructured lifestyle as a deal breaker or more as a quirk that came with loving her?

It was thought of as a quirk until that lack of structure extended to the relationship when it became a deal breaker.

a.k.a. I/O

[carolynrae]

I married my Supervisor. I've written extensively about that relationship on this site, and you can probably find most relevant posts by doing an advanced search. But to answer your questions,
1. We are not still together. We are divorced. She calls me about once every six weeks to invite me to dinner, or when she needs someone to take her somewhere, but otherwise, no. I've moved on.
2. My partner and I were almost perfectly matched from a social, intellectual, and world-view standpoint. We communicated very well regarding the things we had in common (Te), and very poorly for the things we did not (Si). Overall, SLI's are not that talkative. To her credit, she never tried to tell me what to do, and that is probably why the relationship lasted as long as it did. Other than that accommodation, she never really changed her approach to me, despite my requests and complaints and our many mutual therapy sessions.
3. Our marriage lasted over fifteen years. The "breaking point" came when I came home one day and found a moving van in front of the house. I said, "Helen, what's going on?" She, moving furniture into the van, said "I'm leaving." I wondered if she was leaving right now to move the furniture into a storage locker because she had bought all new, so I asked "Where are you going?" and she said "I'm not telling you", and then I realized that she wasn't just leaving the house for an afternoon trip, she was leaving the marriage.

My present feelings on Supervision are that the Supervised always looks up to the Supervisor, and the Supervisor always thinks the Supervisee is an idiot.
I tested this once after she left. My son is also an SLI, and when he was in his low teens (I can't remember exactly when this happened), we were driving somewhere in an S-class Mercedes and I asked him if he thought I was an idiot. He instantly became uncomfortable and said nothing. I tried again. "Son, do you think I make bad decisions?"
This time he replied. He said, "Dad, all of your decisions are bad."
How he came to this conclusion, when he was aware that his mother and I started our marriage with nothing (she was actually in debt) and I had been running an increasingly profitable business since he was born, is beyond objective reconning. It is not, however, beyond the purview of Socionics.

In my opinion, these feelings are ingrained and can be hidden or ignored for a while, but not changed.

*EDIT* I know you didn't ask for comments on your present relationship, but let me tell you a short story example about EII's and SLI's.
My ex-wife's sister is IEE-Ne, and my ex-wife is SLI-Te, as is my son (This is a non-optimum match of dual sub-types). Both my ex-wife and my son think the IEE-Ne is crazy random and they actually can't stand to be around her very much, but I've seen them all work together and I've never had any doubt that they mesh incredibly well because of their shared values. I have a bookkeeper who is IEE-Fi, and she and my SLI-Te son get along better than any two humans I've ever seen (despite their age differences, which actually aren't seen by socionics functions). And SLI's are not the easiest people to get close to, since they hoard their resources, which include their wealth, their space, and their time.
After my divorce, I found an IEE-Ne guy and told my wife she should consider him. She visited him for a weekend to help him with a party he was hosting, and when she returned, I asked her how it went. She said, "He's pretty scattered.", which meant No. So sub-types matter a lot.

Very sad I must admit. It’s like nature has it out for relations of supervision. One side truly can’t see (without effort) the natural strong points of the other, and even then, they don’t hold those strong suits in very high regard because it’s soenthing they themselves can accomplish rather easily.

Whats even more frusterating is that it’s so unconsciously done. By both sides of the coin. No malicious intent. Just natural brain development.

Interesting you bring up subtypes. I’m an IEE-Ne. I’ve read the LII subtypes and think I’m leaning towards LII-Ti for him, though I can see LII-Ne at times as well.

I definitely dated an LII-Ne in highschool. He was much less of a supervisor figure in my life. Heck... I feel like I supervised him most of the time. He was very young though.

[carolynrae]

introduce him to socionics, LIIs tend to like it

Actually, I’ve tried. He refuses. Says’s it has no scientific backing to it, that it pigeonholes individuals, and that it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. He says that we should just get to know one another by observing our interaction styles and behavior.

I have a stubborn one on my hands...

[Bertrand]

just tell him if he understands all that he's perfectly primed to appreciate it for what insight it does add without falling victim to the pitfalls inherent to such systems (that he correctly identifies)

[carolynrae]

Hi, Carolynrae! I'm glad to hear you have such an overall loving and beneficial relationship. Yes, supervision relationships can be good. I was in a long-term relationship with my supervisor once before, so maybe I can help

One thing you have going for you, is that your demonstrative function is their dual-seeking function. Your demonstrative function is one of your strongest abilities, but typically it's not one you value for it's own sake. For you, this is Fe (extraverted feeling). For a LII, this is the information element they want most from other people. You should have the ability to give this to him with ease, and he might depend on you and look up to you in this area.

Here's a quote about LII's Fe from here: http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/types/LII-INTj/


For you to personally consider, this is the description of Fe in IEEs (yours ): http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/types/IEE-ENFp/


The only problem is, this isn't a function you care about using very much, so you might not feel like you're being admired for what you'd really like to be :/ You could be bored when using it, or feel imposed upon by him. However, it's still quite easy to do, and if you have many other positive non-type-related things going for you two (which by the sound of it, you definitely do ) it could be helpful to both of you.

This worked with my supervisor partner, and it made life better for both of us. He actually came out and admitted I was better at some things than he was, and that he needed my input, so I felt valued and respected too. This relationship happened long before I discovered Socionics, so it's kind of interesting to look back at how it played out. In the beginning I did look up to him and even feel intimidated by him. I became more assertive than I usually am, wanting him to appreciate me too. I got him to listen and take my ethical judgements seriously (Fi--my demonstrative function, his dual-seeking function). I validated his moral rectitude when he wanted it, gently pointed him in a better direction when his moral judgements were off-base, and pointed out underlying aspects of his relationships with other people that he tended to be blind to. He was open to my input, and relied on it, so I began to feel like we were equals in the relationship pretty quickly.

Since you asked about whether or not the relationship ended and why....basically we just broke up because I wasn't fulfilled in the relationship for two reasons. The biggest reason was non-type-related. The other was I couldn't feel connected with him on a deep spiritual level. We are both caregiver types in this typing sytem, and apparently it's typical for the female caregiver to feel a lack of spiritual connection in a relationship with another caregiver. We both tried everything to make it work, but in the end I was happier after I became single again. It was painful, for both of us, but at least we parted amicably and were good friends until the end.

Thank you so much for your advice and for your story.

Its so interesting that you brought up Fe. My boyfriend definitely compliments my way with people. He says I bring them together and make them feel at ease, which is something he says he could never do. We often times have our greatest moments when he has friends over and I make everyone feel comfortable.

It’s also nice to see him acknowledge me more in social situations. I can tell he gets nervous sometimes... almost like he needs affirmation. When we’re around people he doesn’t know well, he almost always looks at me while speaking. It’s like I make him comfortable.

I know my emotional power (when connecting and taking care of others) is my hidden strength in this relationship. But I didn’t necessarily understand how! So thank you for bringing this to my attention.

[Lord Pixel]

This helps more than you know.

How can I better challenge his Ti? And how can I bring forward my Te in a way where it will be seen in a respectable light?

Hm, can a share a short anecdote?

I'm EII with crap Te, and I was good friends with an LII, he had an idea that sounded interesting but sounded like it would fail in practice. I told him over and over his idea won't work the way he thinks it will. He insisted it would, I found a way for him to try his idea out and he was eager to prove his concept. Once he tried and did indeed fail like I thought he came back and did not say "You were right I was wrong." He saw with his own reasoning why his idea failed and explained to me his new reasoning he gained from failing, not really acknowledging what I said but his own personal reasoning. But I'm sure if he came to me with an idea the next time he would consider my advice since last time I was infact right.

And his idea was to change the controls for a street fighter game to make it more efficient, I told him the controls he wants won't work, we found an street fighter emulator on the internet he tried his controls and realized there wasn't enough space on a keyboard for his idea to work -_- lol.

So in that case he was able to see that though he may be very intellectual compared to me, he should consider my 2 cents when trying to apply his intellect to tangible things, simply because in that realm I am thinking about things he is not.

So to challenge them I'd say if they ever become strongly convicted of an idea they have working in reality, and if you do not see it working out the way they say it will instead of arguing and debating them (because they will win) challenge them to prove their theory in a tangible way, and you will most likely "win" in these cases because Ti has a hard appyling it's intellect, while Te is all about application. He might respect that you can apply your knowledge to the tangible world and see value in being able to actually apply the things you know.

[carolynrae]

It was thought of as a quirk until that lack of structure extended to the relationship when it became a deal breaker.

a.k.a. I/O

Was she given the chance and the help to learn how to structure her own life? And did she accept the help? It wouldn’t be something she’d naturally possess or be comfortable with.

[golden]

Sometimes LXI can come across as intellectually superior aside from intertype relations issues, and ime this can be more marked when gender stuff gets mixed in.

The way I suppose I balance them is just by being louder. Ok not really but actually yes really. I mean, I am.

If I were sitting around waiting for them to give me their approval of my mental capacities, I might end up waiting a long, long time. They already have that area covered, so even if they think you’re very intelligent, I wouldn’t expect them to remark on it often.

I had an LII boyfriend in college and he sometimes told me I was cute and funny, but basically I just consistently interrupted his reading, studying, and fantasy games with human interaction and I dragged him places where he could eat food and be entertained. We did discuss ideas a lot, but he didn’t give me much feedback on myself and honestly I don’t think he would have been very good at it. So my suggestion with LXI in general is to not infer that they are appraising you negatively when they focus almost entirely on the conceptual substance of your communication and appear to be avoiding the more qualitative stuff. That’s not really their area of greatest confidence.

[Rebelondeck]

Actually, I’ve tried. He refuses. Says’s it has no scientific backing to it, that it pigeonholes individuals, and that it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. He says that we should just get to know one another by observing our interaction styles and behavior.

I have a stubborn one on my hands...

Tell him that for an LII-Ti to rise up a corporate ladder, it can become an essential tool that will help him put teams together; it will also supplement his observations. He is correct in that the theory is used in a largely pigeonhole fashion but one can rise above that. There's an underlying truth to it and it's an indication of valid hard-science cognitive structures that should be pursued.......

a.k.a. I/O

[carolynrae]

Hm, can a share a short anecdote?

I'm EII with crap Te, and I was good friends with an LII, he had an idea that sounded interesting but sounded like it would fail in practice. I told him over and over his idea won't work the way he thinks it will. He insisted it would, I found a way for him to try his idea out and he was eager to prove his concept. Once he tried and did indeed fail like I thought he came back and did not say "You were right I was wrong." He saw with his own reasoning why his idea failed and explained to me his new reasoning he gained from failing, not really acknowledging what I said but his own personal reasoning. But I'm sure if he came to me with an idea the next time he would consider my advice since last time I was infact right.

And his idea was to change the controls for a street fighter game to make it more efficient, I told him the controls he wants won't work, we found an street fighter emulator on the internet he tried his controls and realized there wasn't enough space on a keyboard for his idea to work -_- lol.

So in that case he was able to see that though he may be very intellectual compared to me, he should consider my 2 cents when trying to apply his intellect to tangible things, simply because in that realm I am thinking about things he is not.

So to challenge them I'd say if they ever become strongly convicted of an idea they have working in reality, and if you do not see it working out the way they say it will instead of arguing and debating them (because they will win) challenge them to prove their theory in a tangible way, and you will most likely "win" in these cases because Ti has a hard appyling it's intellect, while Te is all about application. He might respect that you can apply your knowledge to the tangible world and see value in being able to actually apply the things you know.

Genius!!

Wow. I never thought of things that’s way but I’ve seen this come into play SO many times in my relationship. It usually results in me saying, “hey, that’s not going to work.” Or, “hey, I’m pretty sure I’m correct.” And him not listening worth a darn... but once he sees that things aren’t working out, or his logic wasn’t correct, he sort of does this little nervous laugh and ends up doing things the way I petitioned in the first place. He’ll never tell me I was RIGHT. Apparently that’s not how Ti works... But I know that sheepish face quite well.

He is the master of mental argument. I’ve learned not to spar anymore unless I write things down first. Verbally, I can always be beat. Via text message... not so much.

I’ve experienced many real world situations, so it’s not hard for me battle him on this forefront. Especially when the only time he’s worked though an idea is via TI and he ends up having ZERO tangible evidence.

thanks for the input!

[carolynrae]

Tell him that for an LII-Ti to rise up a corporate ladder, it can become an essential tool that will help him put teams together; it will also supplement his observations. He is correct in that the theory is used in a largely pigeonhole fashion but one can rise above that. There's an underlying truth to it and it's an indication of valid hard-science cognitive structures that should be pursued.......

a.k.a. I/O

Dang. Can’t wait to try this one

[carolynrae]

Sometimes LXI can come across as intellectually superior aside from intertype relations issues, and ime this can be more marked when gender stuff gets mixed in.

The way I suppose I balance them is just by being louder. Ok not really but actually yes really. I mean, I am.

If I were sitting around waiting for them to give me their approval of my mental capacities, I might end up waiting a long, long time. They already have that area covered, so even if they think you’re very intelligent, I wouldn’t expect them to remark on it often.

I had an LII boyfriend in college and he sometimes told me I was cute and funny, but basically I just consistently interrupted his reading, studying, and fantasy games with human interaction and I dragged him places where he could eat food and be entertained. We did discuss ideas a lot, but he didn’t give me much feedback on myself and honestly I don’t think he would have been very good at it. So my suggestion with LXI in general is to not infer that they are appraising you negatively when they focus almost entirely on the conceptual substance of your communication and appear to be avoiding the more qualitative stuff. That’s not really their area of greatest confidence.

Great advice.
I feel this one on another level.

Thank you, everyone, for you help! Every single idea and story has been beneficial.

Above all, I just really want him to take the time to get to know and understand our differences... and maybe spend a little more time trying to understand the HOW and the WHY aspect of it all. It’s so important. Especially when you choose to love someone (and are engaged. He proposed a few months back.)

I’ll have to try my best to get him into socionics.

[Rebelondeck]

Was she given the chance and the help to learn how to structure her own life? And did she accept the help? It wouldn’t be something she’d naturally possess or be comfortable with.

For 5 years, her ISTj ex-husband tried to impart some structure and even her young EXFj daughter hinted sometimes so the INTj didn't even try. She had married in her thirties so I guess the concrete was already set......

a.k.a. I/O

[carolynrae]

For 5 years, her ISTj ex-husband tried to impart some structure and even her young EXFj daughter hinted sometimes so the INTj didn't even try. She had married in her thirties so I guess the concrete was already set......

a.k.a. I/O

You see... that has nothing to do with any socionics. That has something to do with someone who is unwilling or open to ANY form of personal growth �� Her Fi must have been a fierce sight to behold haha

[Xaiviay]

Thank you so much for your advice and for your story.

Its so interesting that you brought up Fe. My boyfriend definitely compliments my way with people. He says I bring them together and make them feel at ease, which is something he says he could never do. We often times have our greatest moments when he has friends over and I make everyone feel comfortable.

It’s also nice to see him acknowledge me more in social situations. I can tell he gets nervous sometimes... almost like he needs affirmation. When we’re around people he doesn’t know well, he almost always looks at me while speaking. It’s like I make him comfortable.

I know my emotional power (when connecting and taking care of others) is my hidden strength in this relationship. But I didn’t necessarily understand how! So thank you for bringing this to my attention.

No problem! I hope it helps somehow. But I guess if you already saw this and you still feel less admired in the relationship, it might not really solve the problem

Well, one more thing comes to mind. Fe is used when you're alone together, not just in group settings. Like, when you directly express warmth, appreciation, acceptance, or love to him. Making him feel he is loved. He also probably really appreciates you for when you use it with him in private, and maybe this is a way you could feel more powerful in the relationship, even without the help of the overall group atmosphere.

If you like, of course That's all the advice I can think of

[Rebelondeck]

You see... that has nothing to do with any socionics. That has something to do with someone who is unwilling or open to ANY form of personal growth �� Her Fi must have been a fierce sight to behold haha

When I gave another ENFp acquaintance my descriptions of both our types, she said she was rather comforted by the insight because the ENFp description had fit her perfectly so she thought that mine should also fit - LIIs can be hard to read. How close are they for you?

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...iption-by-I-O?
http://www.socionics.com/articles/on_being_intj.html

a.k.a. I/O

[Ilamatecuhtli]

I'd like to ask those who have been in a similar situation the following:
1. Are you and your partner still together?
2. (If so) What is the best style of communication that works positively for you? Was it possible to teach your partner a more tolerant understanding?
3. (If not) How long did it last, and what was your breaking point?

I have supervised SEE in romantic relationship - far too long from my perspective and far too short from his. So my answers, which maybe someone will find useful:

1. No, I ended it but we remained friends. I think supervision may be quite nice relation but not a romantic one. Really, don't do it to yourself people.
2. Se. Lots of it. He used to mobilize me to act when I was thinking a bit too long. And I had Ni-planning which he needed. Basically, try to use your common functions. Unfortunately, the rest of them is a constant source of pain, at least for an introverted supervisor. Really, I never managed to explain how I need Fe-behavior when things are getting nasty. Instead, he used to give me Fi/Te advices. All the time. I tried and tried to teach him with no success. I must admit that sometimes his Fi worked a bit like Fe but only when we were relaxing, with another people that he invited. Other times, he criticised me for lack of Fi (we were not into socionics but I can see dynamic of this relationship now...) saying I have zero social skills and ignoring the fact that actually, I am far more considerate with others than he can be. Having friends with your dual-seeking function helps but what's the point of being with someone who does not cover your basic needs?
3. Year of some mutual attraction and two years of me getting more and more distant. Breaking point was meeting my dual (not the first in my life - I was with dual relationship for a while before and it ended only because of serious non-socionics reasons, lots of pain). No relationship there but just a bit of his presence remained me what I need, want and deserve; definitely not having an incompetent slave, who belives that he is my soulmate, showing lack of understanding and acceptance for me five minutes later.

[ooo]

^ wow

I'm trying to break a relationship with a SEE right now, and it feels the same as you've described, esp point 3. I regret accepting to hang out with this guy because it really turned my life upside down... he's so passionate and bold and aggressive... and I'm very fascinated by his spirit, but it's just too annoying at the same time... I can't breathe, I'm not myself, I become a silent grumpy puppet when with him, and I wonder if in a real serious relationship I would have to adapt at such a scenario... all the times? Meh. No way I can survive.

Unfortunately, physical attraction, the love someone has for you, their obsession, it's really addictive, at least right now... it hurts to say goodbye.

[Finaplex]

If you want to survive it and you are the supervisor you need to turn off your main self and run it at about %10. See how long you survive under those conditions.

[Tallmo]

If you have typed yourselves correctly then it doesnt look so good. You cant escape your types. Supervision doesnt go away no matter how much you understand each other.

What sometimes happens is that the supervisee (you) starts to fight back. Becomes irritated. Ive seen that in IEE+ESI.

There is something terribly wrong in supervision and one can feel it even when one tries to tell oneself that everything will be fine. So i am very negative towards this combination. Ive also been in love with my supervisor LSE

Maybe with time things will be more clear

[Ilamatecuhtli]

^ wow

I'm trying to break a relationship with a SEE right now, and it feels the same as you've described, esp point 3. I regret accepting to hang out with this guy because it really turned my life upside down... he's so passionate and bold and aggressive... and I'm very fascinated by his spirit, but it's just too annoying at the same time... I can't breathe, I'm not myself, I become a silent grumpy puppet when with him, and I wonder if in a real serious relationship I would have to adapt at such a scenario... all the times? Meh. No way I can survive.

In my case it was a constant push-pull, who is going to be on the top like when I was feeling low, he used to make me feel even more like a victim. On the other hand, at my best I could completely get him on his knees but it really was not a place for him somehow. Two agressors, victimizimg eatch other. Not the worst scenario, better than yours I guess. I have EII friend and couldn't see her pleased with SEE in long-term. They are too Se when annoyed. Se I could handle, lack of Fe not.

Unfortunately, physical attraction, the love someone has for you, their obsession, it's really addictive, at least right now... it hurts to say goodbye.

True. Luckly I am rather cold when I finally make up my mind about something but it took a lot of time and after my breaking speech he was hurting as hell - for about 10 minutes, SEEs are tough. And giving him some booze helped, be prepared.

[Beautiful sky]

I like SEE. I cannot handle their energy level. I like ILE. None want to be friends with me.