This is a thread for beta NFs to angst in. It will likely be more used than the lounge, because betas don't do lounges, but beta NFs do angst. I also dedicate the above song to all the LSIs of the world.
This is a thread for beta NFs to angst in. It will likely be more used than the lounge, because betas don't do lounges, but beta NFs do angst. I also dedicate the above song to all the LSIs of the world.
My angst:
The 'INFp head pat'. Wherein, a stated INFp enters a forum and expresses an opinion and those of other stated types immediately question everything about it (including aggressively and immediately calling your INFp typing into question) in a very condescending way. Because we all know INFps aren't good at the logic. And if you are another type mistyping yourself as INFp, it's because you are a ditz and ditzes resemble INFps...common mistake.
I angst, but do not share it much because angsting at other people seems Not Done, and then angst that I do not share myself with other people. *sigh* Dry-clean, repeat.
Reason is a whore.
I angst because movies inspire me to think that.. yeah maybe there is hope in the world. But seems very bleak especially in the US
Angst is freshman level sophistry for IEIs. Put your money on self-destructive habits. Thats where the real money is at.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
Mine: I fell into the rat race trap thinking it would only be temporary.
EDIT: Oh, this says beta NF... nevermind.
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
Lol this is a thread I didn't know I needed.
Let me talk about the woes of being an EIE lol.
I want attention from everyone but I am extremely sensitive to criticism and conflict.
Having suggestive Ti feels like you can't articulate your thoughts at all, and trying to argue something you believe really strongly can be so frustrating because you can't find the right words.
When I decide I like someone they can almost do no wrong, when these people do actually do me wrong I feel like such an idiot.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
Kill all the Chewbaccas?
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
It takes me a long time to figure out what I think about something. When people tell me something they often think of me taking time to consider their opinion as my acceptance of it.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
I think I have suggestive Ti. I will intentionally pretend I don't know something so it can be explained to me. I love to have things explained to me, I always have and I don't know why.
I don't feel like I fit anywhere properly in the world. Not just society, sometimes I feel like I literally don't belong here like I was placed here at some point. Like I'm some alien, looking around and observing the surroundings.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
I have the exact same problem whenever I put too much of my already-burnt-out brain power into thinking: So, what the FUCK am I going to do to earn my living in this world? Is there a chance for me to actually persist in life without doing something that kills me through and through?
It feels like I am not tailored for anything in particular. What should I put on my CV? "Great adaptability, I have a literature and creative writing degree and I can cry on command". That doesn't open too many doors. And where it has the chance of opening them, they close right behind you on the artistic scene, because theatres (and film sets) are very cutthroat.
I HATE this.
And I hate that whenever someone is asking me what I want to do next, my answer is delivered in the same fashion, with the same idiotic smile on my face: "What am I going to do? I'm going to find something to do in the first place. Survive, probably."
I also suffered from a clash of longing and alienation in my earlier years. The way I went around it is that I simply forced myself to get into the core of action, more or less. The fear of missing out on every joy and pain was greater than my feeling of not fitting in, or my fear of failure.
“I want the following word: splendor, splendor is fruit in all its succulence, fruit without sadness. I want vast distances. My savage intuition of myself.”
― Clarice Lispector
I feel useless. I feel weak. I am afraid of being unable to live in the world as a normal human being. I don't feel up to the challenge.
I feel that I am the butt of a cosmic joke. I live the life others live, and they are happy but I am miserable.
People see me as a fragile, shy, person. I don't know if I can change that. So I have to deal with smirks from others at my own weakness and ineptitude.
The only refuge I have from this is my imagination. I used to have dreams but those are fading away. It feels like the death of something inside me.
I just want it to die and be empty so I don't have to feel this anymore.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
Emptiness - formerly called loneliness - grows inside me. It's as if I'm walking in search of a bridge to the other side, bright, full of love, hope, meaning in life… But always when arriving at the destination point, there is no bridge, there is no way to go to the other side. Any and all views of the other extreme are obscured by clouds, or by an autumn rain, morbid and foggy. As much as I seek, the masterly luminosity on that side does not reach me. My heart filled with hopelessness, now it fills with conformity. I believe that a man endowed with sensitivity - even if he is smart enough - will never have peace. For him, everything is a struggle. Struggles to be heard, understood, and respected. I think, almost every day, about giving up everything. Clinging to the feeling of mourning, crying, salivating for more sadness, resenting it, crying some more... Maybe this is sounding too sentimental. Well, it's a discharge, and therefore, it must be sentimental and tragic. Yes, I think about giving up everything. But even as I want it, I still - by some fierce, untamed spirit within me - I want to fight, and fight, and fight... Was that repetitive? Yes. You can only understand the intensity of certain things by repeating them over and over again. But I think so, is the problem me? Should I become a selfless fool, or immerse myself - as many do - into conformity? I'm afraid because I don't have answers. It rains so much in here. Fire lights up, then goes out. Everything here runs through the cycles, reflected, of what goes on outside. So many conflicts, a sharp, sensitive, courageous and frightened heart. I keep walking through contradictions, looking for my New Jerusalem, my brilliant redemption. Dreaming is a gift, but also torture. “Keep hitting, hit more, I want to be flogged - because the more you hit me, the harder my kick will be. Too bad the kick hits itself. How cruel you are, little boy." I want so much to rest… Delight myself with new sounds, new sensations, new dreams. Become new, reborn, freed from the chains that have chained me for so many years. To have freedom is to reach the most distant and brightest star, walk beside it, make it yours, as intimate and real as what our hands can touch. But it's freezing, so cold and lonely - my place.
@selfdisunion, I read the first eight words of your post and thought “IEI”.
This is a really common feeling for IEI types. I think it relates to having very strong mirror neurons and unbelievably high levels of empathy and seems to be related to having strong Ni and strong Fe.
I dated an IEI for a while and often, when we were alone, talking, I’d look away and when I looked back at her, she had become me! Then her face melted back to her own face. It was startling but good in a way because it made me feel “seen”. This would be perfect for an SLE.
Fe and Fi are “caring” functions and Ni projects the world into the future but is NOT AN ETHICAL function, and this, too, is perfect for SLEs.
An SLE without an IEI is an Abrams tank running without a driver, or a king without a wise and prudent advisor.
I hate that there is typology out there — such as Enneagram 9 — that normalizes this, so that people think it's mostly normal when they honestly probably need therapy or some kind of help. It's called Identity Disturbance, and it pertains to the failure to form an identity during adolescence, as people of that age are supposed to do. It usually stems from some sort of trauma or disorder. Having BPD, or having been a victim of someone with NPD, something like that. Unlike with typology, there is much empirical data that supports this.
@selfdisunion If you'd like some of my research on that, btw, let me know. I've delved into that one quite thoroughly. You'll have to add me as a friend if you want to do it via DMs.
I don't like work at the moment. I am off now for a couple of weeks at least. There is not a lot of work to do but there are still problems. I am starting to feel stressed without a proper work structure- everyone is slacking because of Covid. I need a plan to do some shadowing and get some different experience.
I have two annoying newish LIE colleagues. One is a young guy who just doesn't understanding respectful boundaries and also says stuff you can't really say at work, casual racism etc. I've spoken with SEE and IEE managers but they didn't take me seriously. I have drafted an email which will make them listen this time. It's not a super big deal but it could become one because there is just such light touch management at the moment and we're half way through a messy re-structure. My other LIE colleague is female and nice but she's not as clever as she thinks she is and she drains me, in a similar way that the guy does and she talks to me like she's my manager. She's alright but probs need to take a step back.
Also working alongside an SEI that I used to like and who hurt me. I don't know how much longer I can deal with working with him. It's like he wants to be my friend but he doesn't at the same time. I think he intuitively knows how to keep me at a distance but at the same time ever so slyly demand attention, but doesn't realise how mean it comes across. I feel like a crazy person because even though I don't like him romantically now, I still think he's a nice person but also not at the same time. Am I mad to think we just don't get along as friends? And would only ever get along as a short term romantic fling? Like, it feels like we can only ever hate each other or love each other, no in-between. Or am I just a loser who can't be around cute guys who don't like me? Or is he really just a huge attention seeker who doesn't know how to be civil towards women? So much Beta angst. I probably do or did have the answers, but they run away from me.
I think part of the problem is I'm in a causal job where there's a lot of down time and ideally I'd be in management level by now, if life had been different. I shouldn't be in a situation where I'm basically hanging out with a cute guy instead of working. Work is supposed to be professional and there should be suitable boundaries. I can't imagine ever being in a situation where a guy friend liked me at work..and instead of talking about it with him and trying to improve the situation I just let us wind each other up the whole time...he doesn't seem to be aware he's doing it though..maybe I do need to just sometimes say to him 'I don't want to talk today' and avoid him a bit more. But yeah I do think it's weird that we've never had a conversation about it, when it caused quite so much issues. I'm worried I'm gonna get a reputation for not being able to deal with male colleagues...but in the office the other day I heard two women talking about 'toxic masculinity' in our work place. So maybe...I am just starting to become aware of a big problem at the establishment I work at. May see if there is anything I can get involved in at work to help highlight this issue, it's a big company so there might be something.
Also going to speak with my line manager's manager about her not having regular 1:1s with me.
Thanks for the release
edit: I need to go for a run!
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 12-22-2021 at 05:08 PM.
This thread is filled with neurosis. I think particularly the Beta NF will have a lot of issues adapting to the expectations of the current commerce oriented society. The Beta NF has a whimsical approach to the world and is not cut out for hard 'meaningless' labor which they have no interest in completing . Beta NFs are a type which are particularly unemployable as they tend to be oriented towards creative pursuits and greatly value their free time much more than any other type. I can spend weeks at a time doing what from the outside looks like 'nothing' while I am having great epiphanies in my thinking/attitude towards the world.
It does not surprise me that @Eudaimonia, an Fe base feels 'useless' and 'abnormal', when 'normality' today equates to living what is essentially a mechanistic life in which you sell your labor for wages. If this is what 'normality' is, then why should normality for you be a virtue? 'Normals' do not change the world. It is precisely those who cut against the grain which change the order of the world. Revolution is how the Beta Quadra is best characterized, both literally and metaphorically.
My advice to every Beta NF in this thread is "ACTION". You must stop neurotically spinning about your identity and strive to accomplish something which you find meaningful. If you cannot find something to do then think deeply about what is important to you and then go from there. If you still cannot find a worthwhile pursuit then you need medical assistance, therapy, or possibly drugs.
Go forth and conquer
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Last edited by Anonymous; 12-22-2021 at 07:36 PM. Reason: Embedded Image