inumbra 05-10-2015 12:47 AM
around the time i left the forum was full of horrible vi threads
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:47 AM
of like just typing people off of pictures
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:47 AM
which ones?
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:47 AM
it was stupid
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:48 AM
i see the forum as free of that shit now
Velvet - 05-10-2015 12:48 AM
VI is still present
Pookie - 05-10-2015 12:48 AM
The vi stuff is just as bad as cooking = si, to me. The whole almond eyes, narrow chin, must be blah blah shit. Its genetics.
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:49 AM
VI is supreme
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:49 AM
VI is actually the only empirically valid thing about socionics
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:49 AM
yeah velvet, but it's not nearly as bad, imo, as it was
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:49 AM
VI is not genetics
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:49 AM
and i mainly agree pookie
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:49 AM
yeah well i totally disagree on that radio
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:49 AM
but yeah, VI is the only part of socionics that has some empirical and scientific validity
Pookie - 05-10-2015 12:50 AM
Some of the ways its used it is.
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:50 AM
back when ashton, jriddy, allie, dolphin were making post after post based on pictures alone, i thought that was supremely stupid
Velvet - 05-10-2015 12:50 AM
VI is complementary but not fully valid
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:50 AM
there have been studies conducted on big 5 traits and visual appearance
Pookie - 05-10-2015 12:50 AM
If someone mentions the shape of a feature to indicate a type, theyre wrong. Point blank.
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:50 AM
and there are definitely correlations
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:50 AM
and they wouldn't even bother explaining themselves
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:51 AM
it was posts of vague nonsense
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:51 AM
correlation isn't everything
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:51 AM
eh
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:51 AM
are you not listening to what i'm saying
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:51 AM
....
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:51 AM
how is it vague
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:51 AM
at all
Velvet - 05-10-2015 12:51 AM
big 5 is not set in stone and can change
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:52 AM
do begin with you have to understand this is circular reasoning
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:52 AM
you decided that certain people are certain types (there's no way to objectively prove that, not now)
Pookie - 05-10-2015 12:52 AM
Im sure there are some things that work from appearances. Focus in the eyes, way you hold your face. I just see alot of nonsense get thrown in w7th it.
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:52 AM
then you do some picture matching
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:52 AM
can you not see how this is entirely subjective
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:53 AM
i've taken science courses in college and have a fair grasp of what counts as actually worthy data to draw conclusions off of - socionics is NOT science
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:53 AM
it's dangerous to start treating it as though it is
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:53 AM
the thing about VI, or at least the ashton / dolphin / jriddy approach was that it's extremely Te
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:53 AM
it's based entirely on shared pool of knowledge
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:53 AM
it's not
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:54 AM
and the more people that contribute ~ the more accuracy it leads to
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:54 AM
in my opinion it's extremely fe
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:54 AM
it's about reading people's "energy"
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:54 AM
that is totally what fe focuses on
Velvet - 05-10-2015 12:54 AM
I can be ok at VI but I evaluate more what they say
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:54 AM
uhhhh
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:54 AM
sure it can be Fe too
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:54 AM
i'm not saying that
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:55 AM
no the more people that contribute the more you get an echo chamber where everyone becomes of one mind
Pookie - 05-10-2015 12:55 AM
Objectivity in socionics is not something I like. Theres no experience being used, or else it would be subjective. All the insight thats been useful to me has been from understanding and analyzing experiences.
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:55 AM
i'm saying the socionix approach is Te
Velvet - 05-10-2015 12:55 AM
already seen here: looks bitchy therefore ILI. Or EIE
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:55 AM
and i'm saying it's not
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:55 AM
yes inumbra that's exactly what Te is @inumbra lol
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:55 AM
the echo chamber effect
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:55 AM
is exactly what Te is
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:55 AM
in essence
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:56 AM
like Fe is an echo chamber of FEELINGS
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:56 AM
no te is reading external dynamics of
fields objects... changing processes based on reality
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:56 AM
forming an echo chamber of categories is ti
Director Abbie - 05-10-2015 12:56 AM
The Sticky Note has been updated!
Pookie - 05-10-2015 12:56 AM
Echo chamber is anything with crowds really
Say something with confidence and people agree.
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:56 AM
inumbra, you are IEI.
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:57 AM
ti is about classification and making that system of classification make sense internally with itself
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:57 AM
i feel like i'm not getting across literally anything to you.
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:57 AM
right, radio, and this is the predictable response from you
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:57 AM
which is ok.
Pookie - 05-10-2015 12:57 AM
I think you are, I just think you disagree
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:57 AM
i'll just wait for ananke to come and translate everything i'm saying to you in Ti terms.
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:57 AM
which is also ok.
Pookie - 05-10-2015 12:59 AM
Trying to backtrack to what you guys were disagreeing with... VI is Te?
Aquagraph - 05-10-2015 12:59 AM
Trying to stay sober is so hard when you can afford not to.
inumbra 05-10-2015 12:59 AM
i realize you're not going to agree but tell me how the echo chamber thing is not creating a static system?
Velvet - 05-10-2015 12:59 AM
radio is being a pretentious prick right now I AM[/B] AM[/B]used
Radio - 05-10-2015 12:59 AM
anyway, this topic started as me saying expat and co are a sham, like i mean niffweed needs $3000 to conduct a socionics experiment. i wouldn't trust him with my milkshake.
Pookie - 05-10-2015 12:59 AM
Hah nice aqua
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:00 AM
i'm saying the whole thing where you look at a photograph and come up with "vibes" and "energy" and all of this stuff is Fe
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:00 AM
that's what Fe reads
Pookie - 05-10-2015 01:00 AM
Oh yeah, I agree with that. No one should be charging for this shit. Its taking advantage and poisoning the well.
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:00 AM
okay, i'm going to explain this very slowly.
Velvet - 05-10-2015 01:01 AM
Just took a look, they got 282 bucks
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:01 AM
don't patronize me, radio
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:01 AM
then don't ask me to explain.
Aquagraph - 05-10-2015 01:02 AM
This conversation is not going to end with mutual understanding.
Velvet - 05-10-2015 01:02 AM
Funding UnsuccessfulThis project's funding goal was not reached on on April 17.
Velvet - 05-10-2015 01:02 AM
Te is very objectivity relied
Velvet - 05-10-2015 01:03 AM
I don't see what can be 100% objective in VI
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:03 AM
neither do i
Pookie - 05-10-2015 01:03 AM
Identical twins would always be the same type if VI was based off of objective features correct? I dont believe they are identical types always just by nature of being identical twins.
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:03 AM
okay you guys are looking at objectivity in Ti terms.
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:04 AM
also Te is dynamic... so it's not about coming up with a static classification system... it has to change as new information comes in
Pookie - 05-10-2015 01:04 AM
Aqua, the vibe seems to me to be mutual expression moreso than understanding
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:04 AM
you are looking at objectivity in terms of hard truths, like a square has 4 sides and justice being an platonic ideal etc.
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:04 AM
which makes sense for Ti, sure, those are very static properties of T function and in jungian terms they're all SUBJECTIVE, not objective.
Anglas - 05-10-2015 01:05 AM
VI is illuminati confirmed
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:05 AM
Ti is interested in static classification systems, and is not quick to change them... after evidence to the contrary overwhelms the system, the system is revolutionized…
so Ti changes in spurts... because it's static and has to be forced to change
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:05 AM
jungian objectivity is something else, it's not what we think of colloquially as objectivity.
Velvet - 05-10-2015 01:05 AM
Ti power
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:05 AM
that's not how i'm looking at objectivity radio
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:06 AM
this is how i'm looking at it
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:06 AM
when you talk about objectivity in jungian terms it means things that need to be, um sort of confirmed by other people before their truth can be verified.
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:06 AM
lets say you live in a land of many rabbits and they all cross the road at noon and all move eastward
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:06 AM
for example, how many people need to verify that a square has 4 sides before it's considered true? zero.
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:06 AM
therefore, it's subjective = Ti.
Velvet - 05-10-2015 01:07 AM
I can have as much confirmation as you want but if I decided something, I won't change my mind. That's not what I call Te
Pookie - 05-10-2015 01:07 AM
I was. I was taking objectivity in the literal sense. Unarguable, no interpretation beyond the facts.
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:07 AM
you then say that you have observed the following objective data: rabbits all cross the road at noon and they all move eastward... you say this is how rabbits work
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:07 AM
then you notice certain rabbits start moving westward instead of eastward
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:07 AM
immediately you alter your understanding of rabbits to account for the new data
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:08 AM
you question why the change, what happened, what causes a rabbit to move one way or another
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:08 AM
the point is you constantly are open to the dynamics of the situation
Velvet - 05-10-2015 01:08 AM
it's the end of the world I have no more tea at home
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:08 AM
this is why scientific theories change when new evidence is discovered... this is an objective process based on observation
Pookie - 05-10-2015 01:08 AM
Drink tap water
Velvet - 05-10-2015 01:08 AM
I found an old box expired since 2013, I hope I won't die
Pookie - 05-10-2015 01:09 AM
Mans greatest invention
Velvet - 05-10-2015 01:09 AM
objectively you are right
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:10 AM
that's just... openness @inumbra
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:10 AM
it's neither Ti or Te
Velvet - 05-10-2015 01:10 AM
but I want to drink tea so I will even if it's expired
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:10 AM
openness as a trait =/= type related
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:11 AM
it was a simple example on purpose. but i don't think we're going to understand each other. unlike you though, i'm not going to immediately decide you're a certain type based on the discussion
Pookie - 05-10-2015 01:11 AM
I think you guys have ventured to deep in the rabbit hole trying to explain something that on simple terms you both would agree on.
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:11 AM
eh
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:11 AM
you probably are IEI
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:12 AM
also that you see this as openness reveals you don't understand what i'm trying to communicate (as in i'm not doing a good enough job of explaining it)
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:12 AM
i'm not even arguing that
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:12 AM
it's just obvious to me at this point
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:12 AM
but i don't mean that as a put-down
Velvet - 05-10-2015 01:12 AM
inumbra I get what you mean
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:13 AM
i just sort of verbalized it because it went through my head since you are so resistant to my badass Te powers
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:13 AM
i'm glad someone does, velvet... sigh...
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:14 AM
radio, as supposedly Te DS, you have no Te powerz
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:14 AM
gurl pls
Pookie - 05-10-2015 01:14 AM
Te, the shortcut to smart
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:15 AM
i get what you mean regarding static / dynamic, but you are ultimately describing it from the Ti perspective, you're describing how a static T type approaches situations which require dynamic T
Velvet - 05-10-2015 01:15 AM
nonsense, Te is bullying
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:16 AM
whatever that means... if you're defining Ti/Te based on yourself radio and what you do... i can't really use that
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:16 AM
what i was trying to communicate was the opposite way around, a dynamic T dabbling into static T
Pookie - 05-10-2015 01:16 AM
Bullying = smart
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:16 AM
in my mind, i don't know what type you are... i only know your self-type
Velvet - 05-10-2015 01:17 AM
make love, don't fight
Radio - 05-10-2015 01:17 AM
don't attempt to make me feel bad because you're too stupid to understand what i'm saying
Pookie - 05-10-2015 01:17 AM
Uhoh
inumbra 05-10-2015 01:17 AM
i'm not attempting to make you feel bad