for quotes, pictures, music, interviews and more pertaining to type 5
for quotes, pictures, music, interviews and more pertaining to type 5
5w4
Poetry is not a turning loose of emotion, but an escape from emotion; it is not the expression of personality, but an escape from personality. But, of course, only those who have personality and emotions know what it means to escape from these things.
All significant truths are private truths. As they become public, they cease to become truths, they become facts, or at best, part of the public character, or at worst, catchwords.
T.S. Eliot
If I had to find musical pieces representative for E5, I would choose something like the one below:
I don't know why Chopin is constantly listed as the quintessential E5 musician. I find his music nauseating and soaked in emotion ...his is not a detached-cerebral and intellectualized approach to music.
Braque
Last edited by Amber; 11-24-2014 at 07:09 PM.
Enkel Dika - Extraordinary Observer
E5 "integrating" to 8
Giger is 5w4 (+sp/sx)
Last edited by Amber; 11-25-2014 at 03:22 AM.
“You call me a misanthrope because I avoid society. You err; I love society. Yet in order not to hate people, I must avoid their company.”
Smooth operator. Behavioral scientists jizz their pants when they meet five's.
Last edited by Tonatiuh; 01-28-2017 at 09:30 PM. Reason: typo
Beware of the biting irony of a quintessential E 5 : he'll try to blind you with Grammar before sweeping you off your feet. (yes, this is intentionally non-pc)
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I saw this movie and it actually really disturbed and kind of scared me, at that time. Not as bad as "The Exorcist" (which I will never watch again). I have been thinking of watching it again, a lot, lately because I think I totally misunderstood it the first time, since I was viewing it from the perspective, of another belief system, I was holding to then. Maybe I will watch it tonight. Weird sync, since it has been on mind and not a movie I see posted often, anywhere.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
me too. i was in my teens when i first saw it and it horrified and scared the shit out of me. i couldn't get the images out of my mind for a while. sometimes with horror-ish films i zero in on the solid/rock-like character to carry me through the film--fishburne's character in this case, as out of all of them he defeats the fear & horror in his mind. so when i watched it again i just refocused on his character if the film was starting to get to me. listening to the commentary helped too because the kind of detached and even humorous way the director looked at the film helped put it back in perspective. now it's one of my favs.
i also embraced the evil chaos consciousness from the other universe... i know it sounds fairly bad, but i think it was trying to communicate in the only way it could... and it even seemed to have a weird affection for dr. weir. he was its reference point to our universe, that it could draw language and concept from so as to give form to its chaos. also since weir built the ship, he's almost an um maternal figure for it. haha.
Event Horizon is super cozy somehow. Similar how Alien can be cozy. Of course they both scared the shit out of me when I was younger. But now in my mid 20's and with knowing where and what the scares are, the whole aesthetics, drifting through space and ship designs just have something warm to them.
(...) scientists claim to have uncovered the secrets of how the emotion affects the brain, paving the way for the creation of a love test. By scanning the brains of men and women who said they were in love, and comparing them with people who had fallen out of love or never been in love, researchers say they have been able to piece together the first map of the changes that occur in the brain.
“Our study provides the first evidence of love-related alterations in the underlying architecture of the brain and the results shed new light on the mechanisms of romantic love,” said Professor Xiaochu Zhang of the University of Science and Technology of China in Hefei, who led the study, which is published in Frontiers in Human Neuroscience.
The researchers, who showed romantic lovers photographs of their partners while scanning their brains, say that the study has demonstrated the “possibility of applying a resting-state fMRI approach” for testing for romantic love, opening the way for fMRI tests to diagnose love.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-10108781.html
Last edited by Amber; 04-11-2015 at 01:23 AM.
Slavoj Zizek - 5w4 (so/sp Alpha)
James Fallon - 5w4 (so/sp Beta)
Fictional Example: Dt. Robert Goren (Criminal Intent) 5w6 sp/sx (LII?) http://detectiverobertgoren.blogspot.com/2008/10/robert-goren-kimdir.html
I always thought of him as a rather interesting character. I admit I'm going more with my impression here, after years of watching the show.
Reinhold Messner - 5w6 (likely a LSI-Ti)
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...alexander-text
Superhumanly determined, Reinhold Messner has pursued his uncompromising vision to reach the summits of Earth's highest peaks—and beyond.
Italian mountaineer and explorer Reinhold Messner has made a career of near-impossible climbs, and is considered one of the greatest climbers in history. On May 8, 1978, Messner completed his ascent of Mount Everest without supplemental oxygen—a feat previously thought to be impossible. Additionally, Messner has climbed all 14 of the world's peaks that measure 8,000 meters and up. Messner is also an author, politician and businessman.
5 needs a thread even if there is no love for it (maybe we just don't have a lot of, if any, 5s here and everyone is fixated on their own type?).
"Now I have studied philosophy,
medicine and the law,
and unfortunately, theology,
wearily sweating, yet I stand now,
poor fool, no wiser than I was before;
I am called Master, even Doctor,
and for these last ten years have led
my students by the nose--up, down,
crosswise and crooked. Now I see
that we know nothing finally." - Faust
Last edited by Pallas; 10-29-2016 at 04:20 AM. Reason: Attempting to format it correctly
Just replace 'introvert' with '5'
Introverts.jpg
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
@chips and underwear But all the 4s are uniting! Aren't 5s more socially extraverted than that? Frankly I don't believe 4s actually can unite at all.
4 #1: My whole life I have wanted to be different from everyone else.
4 #2: Me too!
Group of other 4s that has gathered: *starts to panic*
4 #1: I'm going to stop wanting to be different in order to be different from you all.
4 #2: But that would make you like everyone else.
4 #1: Oh no, what I can do...
(Too ripped for the average five if you ask me wink wink)
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Since I found this thread, I'll repost my stuff from the other thread here, since I think we have too much know-it-all 5 and not enough stare-into-the-abyss 5:
"Now I have studied philosophy,
medicine and the law,
and unfortunately, theology,
wearily sweating, yet I stand now,
poor fool, no wiser than I was before;
I am called Master, even Doctor,
and for these last ten years have led
my students by the nose--up, down,
crosswise and crooked. Now I see
that we know nothing finally." - Faust
I should probably also post my signature poem as well:
625. Ode on a Grecian Urn
THOU still unravish'd bride of quietness, Thou foster-child of Silence and slow Time, Sylvan historian, who canst thus express A flowery tale more sweetly than our rhyme: What leaf-fringed legend haunts about thy shape 5 Of deities or mortals, or of both, In Tempe or the dales of Arcady? What men or gods are these? What maidens loth? What mad pursuit? What struggle to escape? What pipes and timbrels? What wild ecstasy? 10 Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard Are sweeter; therefore, ye soft pipes, play on; Not to the sensual ear, but, more endear'd, Pipe to the spirit ditties of no tone: Fair youth, beneath the trees, thou canst not leave 15 Thy song, nor ever can those trees be bare; Bold Lover, never, never canst thou kiss, Though winning near the goal—yet, do not grieve; She cannot fade, though thou hast not thy bliss, For ever wilt thou love, and she be fair! 20 Ah, happy, happy boughs! that cannot shed Your leaves, nor ever bid the Spring adieu; And, happy melodist, unwearièd, For ever piping songs for ever new; More happy love! more happy, happy love! 25 For ever warm and still to be enjoy'd, For ever panting, and for ever young; All breathing human passion far above, That leaves a heart high-sorrowful and cloy'd, A burning forehead, and a parching tongue. 30 Who are these coming to the sacrifice? To what green altar, O mysterious priest, Lead'st thou that heifer lowing at the skies, And all her silken flanks with garlands drest? What little town by river or sea-shore, 35 Or mountain-built with peaceful citadel, Is emptied of its folk, this pious morn? And, little town, thy streets for evermore Will silent be; and not a soul, to tell Why thou art desolate, can e'er return. 40 O Attic shape! fair attitude! with brede Of marble men and maidens overwrought, With forest branches and the trodden weed; Thou, silent form! dost tease us out of thought As doth eternity: Cold Pastoral! 45 When old age shall this generation waste, Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou say'st, 'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.' 50
Well, it's a Romantic poem about truth, not about being special, so don't tell me to move it to the 4 thread I know a lot more 5w4 stuff if people try to flood this with 5w6 stuff, regardless of what my main enneatype is (I'm sure I have 5 in my tritype).
David Bowie has been pretty much cemented as 3w4/4w3 following this long debate about this type. Same for Jim Morrison, another likely image triader on the 3/4 axis.
I didn't mean the artists, I mean the songs themselves. David Bowie is probably something like 457, doesn't mean he can't make a 5 song occasionally, and I'm sure Jim Morisson is probably 458 since he's ILI and he was super into philosophy, literature, etc. He wanted to be a poet, but there's no money in that in America so he did music instead. "I'm sinking in the quicksand of my thoughts and I ain't got the power anymore" is like the most 548 song ever, and "I'm the spy in the house of love and I know... *insert everything about you*" is pretty 5 Sx. Jim Morrison is definitely not a 3 and David Bowie is most likely not a 3 because "look out you rock 'n' rollas" and all that.
Fair enough, you should have posted the lyrics then to accompany the songs then. Using tritypes to support your typings is tricky, as you can use them to attribute virtually anything to anyone, turning the enneagram into a giant ball of absurdity. Jim Morrison has been typed as IEI and SLE on this board (link) so it's not a given that he's ILI. Those quotes combined actually sound 6-ish, both the overthinking of the problem and the spying that has tinges of paranoia and attachment triad longings. 5s usually have greater clarity of thought and self-definition.
"The Spy" probably, although I thought the longings were more Sx instinct, but "Quicksand" still sounds more 5-ish though because he's lost the power (5 integrates to 8). I also don't think 6s tend to be able to throw out things like:
I'm closer to the Golden Dawn
Immersed in Crowley's uniform
Of imagery
I'm living in a silent film
Portraying Himmler's sacred realm
Of dream reality
I'm frightened by the total goal
Drawing to the ragged hole
And I ain't got the power anymore
No I ain't got the power anymore
I mean, they're focused on security, what time do they have for occultism? I feel like too many people are just looking at the details rather than the big picture. Also, maybe life itself is a giant ball of absurdity, and the map will also have to be to really depict the territory.
this song has struck me as a 5's integration to point 8, a slumbering giant's wakening and rise to power
Rosetta Wake
Nick Cave is probably an ILI 548 but it is possible Jim could have been a 478 sx first. If you haven't read "No One Here Gets Out Alive", and have an interest in him, I recommend it. I think he was too emotionally volatile and expressive to be ILI. I don't even know any ILI core 4s. Jim could have been an IEI.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
@Amber, if you're ever back, your video is broken and I'm curious. I think people type Chopin as E5 music because it's supposed to be "contemplative" and "introspective", but yeah, I wouldn't pick that for E5 either since it's also just gushy and has nothing to do with what E5 is supposed to be in itself. Also, not all E5s are supposed to be detached according to what I've read, it mostly depends on instincts, tritype, etc. as well. If you're focused on detachment you probably have a 9 somewhere.
I don't really agree that Chopin is "just gushy," because although it is melodically centered as with other Romantic music, it's also highly patterned. It engages in complexity for its own sake and if you consider the etudes it is technically strict as hell. People have noted these features and studied the mathematics of Chopin's work, finding fractal relations therein, for example.
Here's something the painter Eugene Delacroix wrote in his journal about a conversation he had with Chopin:
Of course I know that the word "science" has evolved since then (1848), but these observations still portray that Chopin's obsessions did not lie with pure "self-expression."I asked [Chopin] what established logic in music. He helped me to understand the nature of harmony and counterpoint; so that the fugue is like pure logic in music, and to be a scientist in the fugue is to know the element of all reason and all consequence in music.… I thought how happy I would be to learn all these matters that so depress vulgar musicians. This feeling gave me an idea of the pleasure that those who deserve to be called scientists find in science. The true science is not what one ordinarily understands by this word, that is to say a part of knowledge distinct from art; no! Science viewed in this way, demonstrated by a man like Chopin, is art itself, and on the other hand art is then no longer what the vulgar believe, that is to say a sort of inspiration that comes from who knows where, that works by chance and only presents the picturesque exterior of things. It’s reason itself, ornamented by genius, but following a necessary path and governed by higher laws.
I'm writing this from the vantage of being a professional pianist when I was younger (until I injured my hand). The brilliant structural regularity of Chopin's work stands out compared to, say, Schumann's stuff, which comes across as quaint, truly songlike, and irregular. Or even Debussy's work; I think Debussy had such extraordinary harmonic virtuosity but from the standpoint of structural patterning seems far looser and more freely associative or sidewinding than Chopin. Very different composers, don't love to compare them, but eh.
There may be some pianists who interpret Chopin in a gushy, self-indulgent, and sentimental way, but there's no need to do this. I rather disagree with that approach. And I find the biographical hype silly, although ofc people love a good story.
Last edited by golden; 10-30-2016 at 11:16 PM.