How is Ti PoLR manifested in ENFps and ESFps?

[Number 9 large]

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I think it's really funny how much she bothers some alpha NTs Watching you guys get annoyed is really entertaining - sorry =D

whos annoyed now! ahahha

[idontgiveaf]

@idontgiveaf Fine. Again we got another proof for C-D. This kind of C-D thinking of yours just lacks - to the max. It doesn't even occur that you could fragment your conclusions bit more. You have internalized some sort of system inside of you which is very rudimentary +.

This might help you (and me):

Hey what's C-D?

Is taking cognitive functions test ain't reliable? And tell me why

[idontgiveaf]

Ne + causal deterministic = ILE

heheheh

Lol yeah that's why I'm ILE.

Some thinks I'm ILE too u know. Haha xD
Because i troll

[idontgiveaf]

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I think it's really funny how much she bothers some alpha NTs Watching you guys get annoyed is really entertaining - sorry =D

Wow i really have talent for that xD

[The Reality Denialist]

Hey what's C-D?

Is taking cognitive functions test ain't reliable? And tell me why

Causal Deterministic. There is no test for it.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Victor-Gulenko

The article is totally LII and written in holographic panoramic style [ types: LII, SLE, ESI, IEE] (which conflicts Causal Deterministic [types: ILE, LSI, SEE, EII] thinking) so your brain will freeze if you read it. I had to reboot mine several times.

[idontgiveaf]

Causal Deterministic. There is no test for it.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Victor-Gulenko

The article is totally LII and written in holographic panoramic style [ types: LII, SLE, ESI, IEE] (which conflicts Causal Deterministic [types: ILE, LSI, SEE, EII] thinking) so your brain will freeze if you read it. I had to reboot mine several times.

Ok..

Didn't understand lol

[lkdhf qkb]

A person with PoLR will have a very hard time "codifying" their thinking. I "can" do that myself given how it's demonstrative for me but, well, it takes effort. Give me an incentive and I can make a rulebook that codifies my thinking but, on the fly, I tend to ignore it. The "codes" are there and I follow them in a sense, but I also violate them on a whim. Pragmatism>Ideological Purity for my kind. Thing is, for a PoLR, ideological codification/purity might be something that's almost outside their capacity to comprehend. Almost, because we can all learn to compensate for our weaknesses, or we can just find our dual who does that subconsciously .

It's less a question of aptitude than of attitude towards it. I don't see the point of "ideological purity" most of the time, if that's what Ti is about. If you're confused or curious about something, I can understand wanting to figure things out, but ideological purity for the sake of it? Without actually integrating outside information? That reminds me of this joke:

A man is sprinkling a white powder all over the streets, when a policeman walks up to him:
"Why are you putting powder everywhere?"
"To keep the elephants away of course! It's elephant repellent!"
The officer replies: "Don't be absurd; This is Ohio, there are no elephants here."
The man replies: "See, it works."

It's a joke, but I often see this kind of behaviour in Ti valuing producing subtypes(no idea why, accepting subtypes don't do that). I've learned to refrain from trying to explain to IEI-Fe and EIE-Ni that their moonstone necklace probably don't give them moon powers.... Not my business I guess

I've read in another thread that SLE-Ti perceives Fi as "demanding apologies with an unreasonable minefield of sensitivities". That's actually how I perceive some Ti subtypes I know, not about relationships but thoughts. When I say what I think and Ti subtype people don't agree, they can take what I said personally and as if I insulted their life philosophy. (Example: It can be something as simple as me saying "we need to do this and that to do our job correctly" and I get something aggressive from SLE-Ti: "DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT'S THE GOAL OF OUR JOB?!? WE ARE HERE FOR THIS AND THAT REASON NOTHING ELSE!!!")

I admit, I perceive that as "an unreasonable minefield of sensitivities" too. Do you have a clue what that is about? Are Ti-Polr perceived as disrespectful or something?

[Lolita]

Fi PoLR is inability to correctly read people and their motivations so the result is that XLE may get closer to those they shouldn’t or further from ppl who are genuine. In extreme cases, they literally don’t trust anyone simply because they’re unable differentiate between friend or foe.

Ti PoLR is inability to impose rules and structure on the environment and others. Live and let live attitude.

[youfloweryourfeast]

I may be ti polr or just very weak, but it's like wanting something but what you're saying is not reasonable. But you are thinking in the present moment and it's rather a feeling with all logical implications removed.
It's like someone asking to move cities just because they feel like doing it but not considering anything else. I actually may have an example.. one time I was in class doing a group project and this girl asked me "how do we do this." So I started saying random things really fast and she just stared at me.

[anotherperson]

I may be ti polr or just very weak, but it's like wanting something but what you're saying is not reasonable. But you are thinking in the present moment and it's rather a feeling with all logical implications removed.
It's like someone asking to move cities just because they feel like doing it but not considering anything else. I actually may have an example.. one time I was in class doing a group project and this girl asked me "how do we do this." So I started saying random things really fast and she just stared at me.

imo this sounds more like low Te then Ti

[youfloweryourfeast]

What about being unable to accept anyones viewpoint beside your own? That could be related

[Distance]

In the Trump reelection, when Trump dramatically called the results loaded and afoul, this actor(SEE), stood up and made a media statement to call for another election, monitored, and said we will live with the results whichever way it falls this time.

In essence he was suggesting throwing out all the election rules on a whim, and translating it in a wider context as: why not just toss everything out the window, any rules, if it doesn't fit, and just do it this way.

Not sensing the anarchical nature of the suggestion, which is lawless.

It was pretty ignorant and you could say that was at play, and any type could fall into the trap, but i think that is the nature of it, exemplified as Ti PoLR.

[anotherperson]

What about being unable to accept anyones viewpoint beside your own? That could be related

seems like unhealthy Ti/Te base

[Distance]

In the Trump reelection, when Trump dramatically called the results loaded and afoul, this actor(SEE), stood up and made a media statement to call for another election, monitored, and said we will live with the results whichever way it falls this time.

In essence he was suggesting throwing out all the election rules on a whim, and translating it in a wider context as: why not just toss everything out the window, any rules, if it doesn't fit, and just do it this way.

Not sensing the anarchical nature of the suggestion, which is lawless.

It was pretty ignorant and you could say that was at play, and any type could fall into the trap, but i think that is the nature of it, exemplified as Ti PoLR.

Another hit example: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...l=1#post811964

Disdain for static rules cry.

[Crink]

the typical written material about this is basically spot on for me.

I think every polr is a preference for the mobilizing. They misunderstand the polr as the creative or the mobilizing.

I don't acknowledge "authority" on information. The correct authority to me is whoever can give the best explanation for how to do something properly. I completely reject the notion that any logical structure can be proven or taken as true. If I like you, I care about your values. If I don't know you or care about you, I do not care about your values. I'll listen to them but I won't treat it seriously. I'll validate it as correct for you but don't expect me to take that on myself unless it effects you personally, and effects our relationship.

I do build models of thought and compare models but I forget which connections I made and cannot explain them in a sane way. I would never look at a chart that I didn't need for drawing conclusions. I like it if I need it but it saps my energy so I need to find the most important information and leave the rest.

[Distance]

the typical written material about this is basically spot on for me.

I think every polr is a preference for the mobilizing. They misunderstand the polr as the creative or the mobilizing.

I don't acknowledge "authority" on information. The correct authority to me is whoever can give the best explanation for how to do something properly. I completely reject the notion that any logical structure can be proven or taken as true. If I like you, I care about your values. If I don't know you or care about you, I do not care about your values. I'll listen to them but I won't treat it seriously. I'll validate it as correct for you but don't expect me to take that on myself unless it effects you personally, and effects our relationship.

I do build models of thought and compare models but I forget which connections I made and cannot explain them in a sane way. I would never look at a chart that I didn't need for drawing conclusions. I like it if I need it but it saps my energy so I need to find the most important information and leave the rest.

People who are Fe Ti, support the integrity of the structure, Ti, or put another way, you emote in the great crowd with the Fe, and hold that tack in value direction. It is never taken as an absolute truth, rules, it is to support harmony with the rainbows for the in the moment structure. Fe in people is changeability in the self, ala group consensus value, to hold an integrity wherever that might lie, in the given sail in the ship. The rule is in the crosshair of the Fe.

[Northstar]

I don't acknowledge "authority" on information. The correct authority to me is whoever can give the best explanation for how to do something properly. I completely reject the notion that any logical structure can be proven or taken as true. If I like you, I care about your values. If I don't know you or care about you, I do not care about your values. I'll listen to them but I won't treat it seriously. I'll validate it as correct for you but don't expect me to take that on myself unless it effects you personally, and effects our relationship.

I do build models of thought and compare models but I forget which connections I made and cannot explain them in a sane way. I would never look at a chart that I didn't need for drawing conclusions. I like it if I need it but it saps my energy so I need to find the most important information and leave the rest.

Yes, this is a common source of disconnect with IEE I have. They seem to be always looking for someone that quietly solves the problem of analyzing information and then patiently teaches them step by step how to perform tasks, and unfortunately I just don't find that interesting. Instead I prefer to explain principles of operation, how something works on the inside, like which physical principles guide a machine's operation down to the finest details, how I make clear distinctions between things. Classification and categorization.
If there's a task that needs to be performed, I prefer just to do it myself instead of teaching myself an "apprentice" to help me perform that task. If I need assistance with something (I rarely do or ask for it), then I just tell them what to do in that moment and let them go as soon as I don't need the help anymore.

The "apprentice" thing is more for analyzing things, I like to point people to sources of information and then let them analyze it themselves and later discuss with me if there are things they need clarified. I do like clarifying things and reducing them to the most atomic components so that there are no ambiguities and the distinctions are crystal clear. It's done in the moment though, more like an instinct and I don't attach importance to being absolutely right about these, they are more malleable and open for discussion. I enjoy hearing the insights they may have to the material.

When it comes to methods and ways of doing things, I'm less interested in discussions and pointers. Typically I shut down suggestions from others on how to do something differently (the Te mobilizing seems to be very eager to give these suggestions) unless I know the one making the suggestion is an expert on the task at hand. The problem usually is that these suggestions from a Te mobilizing person contain some flaws that would need to be discussed and refined and I just find it uninteresting and a waste of time to do.

I do think to myself quite a bit about the most efficient way of doing things but often end up just doing it the simplest "brute force" way as there's a great impatience of just getting things done instead of doing "work preparations" that I don't derive any joy from. This translates into a lack of interest in discussing these job preparations either. It's much more rewarding to discuss observations and analyze the inner workings of things.

You could summarize this as preferring to just solve Te problems instead of discussing them and preferring to discuss Ti problems instead of just solving them.
Phrased as a request from Ti polr / Te mob it would be "analyze this information for me and discuss with me on how to perform this task"
Conversely for Te polr / Ti mob it would be "analyze this information with me and perform this task for me"

So yes, I kind of see the creative -> mobilizing relationship as "teacher and apprentice" type of relationship.
For Fe HA, I seem to find many of the memes and things IEIs say as hilarious and often recycle their jokes and appropriate funny phrases and sayings. IEI have a very irreverent sense of humor which I find funny to "take public" as they usually keep it to private trusted conversations, being wary of being judged for it in public.
Another thing is how I like to troll for reactions from people and Fe creatives often have the most amusing of reactions of being horrified and bemused but not actually offended.

[qaz00]

Yes, this is a common source of disconnect with IEE I have. They seem to be always looking for someone that quietly solves the problem of analyzing information and then patiently teaches them step by step how to perform tasks, and unfortunately I just don't find that interesting. Instead I prefer to explain principles of operation, how something works on the inside, like which physical principles guide a machine's operation down to the finest details, how I make clear distinctions between things. Classification and categorization.
If there's a task that needs to be performed, I prefer just to do it myself instead of teaching myself an "apprentice" to help me perform that task. If I need assistance with something (I rarely do or ask for it), then I just tell them what to do in that moment and let them go as soon as I don't need the help anymore.

The "apprentice" thing is more for analyzing things, I like to point people to sources of information and then let them analyze it themselves and later discuss with me if there are things they need clarified. I do like clarifying things and reducing them to the most atomic components so that there are no ambiguities and the distinctions are crystal clear. It's done in the moment though, more like an instinct and I don't attach importance to being absolutely right about these, they are more malleable and open for discussion. I enjoy hearing the insights they may have to the material.

When it comes to methods and ways of doing things, I'm less interested in discussions and pointers. Typically I shut down suggestions from others on how to do something differently (the Te mobilizing seems to be very eager to give these suggestions) unless I know the one making the suggestion is an expert on the task at hand. The problem usually is that these suggestions from a Te mobilizing person contain some flaws that would need to be discussed and refined and I just find it uninteresting and a waste of time to do.

I do think to myself quite a bit about the most efficient way of doing things but often end up just doing it the simplest "brute force" way as there's a great impatience of just getting things done instead of doing "work preparations" that I don't derive any joy from. This translates into a lack of interest in discussing these job preparations either. It's much more rewarding to discuss observations and analyze the inner workings of things.

You could summarize this as preferring to just solve Te problems instead of discussing them and preferring to discuss Ti problems instead of just solving them.
Phrased as a request from Ti polr / Te mob it would be "analyze this information for me and discuss with me on how to perform this task"
Conversely for Te polr / Ti mob it would be "analyze this information with me and perform this task for me"

So yes, I kind of see the creative -> mobilizing relationship as "teacher and apprentice" type of relationship.
For Fe HA, I seem to find many of the memes and things IEIs say as hilarious and often recycle their jokes and appropriate funny phrases and sayings. IEI have a very irreverent sense of humor which I find funny to "take public" as they usually keep it to private trusted conversations, being wary of being judged for it in public.
Another thing is how I like to troll for reactions from people and Fe creatives often have the most amusing of reactions of being horrified and bemused but not actually offended.

I very much agree with your observations. Excerpt from SEE: https://imgur.com/a/tpvjS04 I like solving that kind of issues, but I can imagine someone like you going crazy having to deal with it on daily basis

[Northstar]

I very much agree with your observations. Excerpt from SEE: https://imgur.com/a/tpvjS04 I like solving that kind of issues, but I can imagine someone like you going crazy having to deal with it on daily basis

Yeah this kind of intellectual laziness combined with a pushy attitude is deeply annoying.

An IEI might make a spreadsheet to compare options if you just help them along a bit. They might instead just never get around to fixing things in utter disrepair in their home but I would just gladly fix it for them immediately.