Delta Lounge

[ashlesha]

sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk sulk

[Beautiful sky]

Me on empathy. Posted 01-01-12 5:08pm http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...384#post841384
1-01-2012*05:08 PM

Because empathy is my default function. It's my base, It's what I DO first before looking at anything else.

It's not about having the right to do something, it's about understanding his circumstances. The very process of understanding is a way to shift what is objectively seen, observed and read, into a "deeper" more thought provoked zone, which is what Fi and Ti does.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...484-LSE-or-SLI
01-01-12 4:46pm

He's just an introvert, Absurd. He has a concept in his mind and probably is very sure about how well it works in the external sense, in his head but due to lack of objective relation, he can't see that it doesn't work in usage in real life.

See I'm empathizing.

Empathy!!!

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...939#post840939

01-13-2012*11:49 PM

I empathize a bit with both, though I also think both could have handled things a bit better. Since I've experienced approximations of the girl's side I suppose I find her a bit less in the wrong. Still, sad situation all around, especially for the guy. It sounds like she at least has some social support. The guy sounds lonely, which is a hard place to be in. I hope the best for both.

Empathy???? Since when? Never before I assure you!!!

sulkadelic.

[Kim]

Maritsa, this is just silly.

[Beautiful sky]

Not the first time she's done this and it makes me never want to disclose anything about myself. I've complained about it before. It's sulky and very creepy.

[Kim]

Not the first time she's done this and it makes me never want to disclose anything about myself. I've complained about it before. It's sulky and very creepy.

She hasn't done anything. She made a point and to prove her point she searched for a quote she remembered (I remembered it,too and I am certainly not obsessed with you). You are clearly overreacting and, if you ask me, projecting.

[Raver]

Maritsa, don't let anger cloud your judgement. If you're angry at Minde, then give it a day's rest and post the next day when your mind is clear from anger. Then you'll realize that Minde is not as bad a person as you thought she was.

[Absurd]

I'm sulking.

[Pa3s]

Are you cold, Maritsa? Because I have a nice warm jacket for you...

[Simon Ssmall]

At 16types.info the white is black

[Kim]

I'm taking that back and I'll post where ever I want but from now on I'm going to use "the popular Maritsa word of the month" just to see how malleable and adaptive Minde gets because I feel like she's glomming on to me, I don't know why. I say I'm empathetic and all of a suddenly Minde's become the user and practicer of empathy. Just so sorry she can't be herself, if she knows what herself is even. And, no I don't feel like this is happening because she claims to be the same type as me, I think this is happening because she feels like she has to fit in with this crowd. I don't have to fit in anywhere.

Word of the month Minde is going to be sulk. I'm using that everywhere so that you can copy it and use it too.

Let's all sulk in this moment everyone.

Sulk is going to be the EII word of the month.

Just another quick note. Minde had posted here for four years before you arrived and did not change her demeanor, topic of posts, or anything else when you arrived. I don't know why you have the impression that she is copying you, but trust me when I say that she doesn't. Just ignore her.

[Marie84]

Ugh, I lost 5 pounds over the holidays. I'm verging on unhealthy if I go much lower. I thought all the holiday foods and treats were supposed to fatten people up?

I need to find practical ways of incorporating more food into my life and routines.

Do you just have a general lack of appetite?
btw, I hope your toe is feeling better

I'm sorry, I don't give out sympathy to people who realize something about themselves and don't fix the problem, rationally and consciously. Obviously whatever you've got going on is in the subconscious.

You see, I've always had the problem of not being able to gain weight, which I've wanted to, but I actually ate (a lot) to try to gain weight and then when I couldn't, that's when I realized that it wasn't worth trying because my metabolism was very high and there was nothing unhealthy about me. So, I stopped and resumed a healthy diet, because I'm a positivist type and don't get down on myself for silly things, and resumed a healthy diet. That is rational thinking.

chill out; nothing Minde posted involves you in anyway. If you have an issue with the way she's dealing with her issue and it's not constructed, than keep it to yourself. In the real world you just don't go around harassing every person that you don't like or who does something you wouldn't personally do.
You also don't know what health or personal matters are going on in her life, so to compare it to your own struggles is pointless

And, bottom line, EII don't do sympathy. That's in the terrain of

All people should have empathic and sympathetic abilities, if you're lacking in that department that's you, not your type

and ftr, people who are actually empathic don't tend to go around announcing it, it shows through their actions, in which this instance (amongst several) is making you seem more inconsiderate and unfeeling than empathic

[Beautiful sky]

chill out; nothing Minde posted involves you in anyway. If you have an issue with the way she's dealing with her issue and it's not constructed, than keep it to yourself. In the real world you just don't go around harassing every person that you don't like or who does something you wouldn't personally do.
You also don't know what health or personal matters are going on in her life, so to compare it to your own struggles is pointless

Awww....Marie, you're using empathy to communicate to me what "shoes" she could be in. That's so empathetic of you. That's how empathy is used and not how she uses it which is "I empathize with them." That's not empathy. You're trying to feel how she feels about it and trying to get me and others to feel how she feels about it too. SHE'S OBVIOUSLY NOT AN EMPATH BECAUSE IF SHE WERE, SHE WOULD RELIZE THAT.

Two thumbs up for you for knowing how empathy works.

Minde no thumbs up for you for pretending to be EII and acting like a chameleonated SEI/EII hybrid and for not knowing how or what empathy is and how it works.


Minde, I type you SEI and that's it; it's done and FINAL. I forgot Sulkafinale.

[Ver]

Martisa being empathetic doesn't necessarily mean being empathetic with you. If Fi types were to emphatize with everything all the time, that would make their life impossible. I catch myself being too emphathetic from time to time and I try to avoid it when there is no use (I mean I'm a vegetarian but I wear leather shoes. Do you empathize with animals enough Martisa not to eat them and not to use things made of leather?). What about people who hurt children? Do you also emphatize with them and do you believe it's a right thing to do?
Additionaly, I believe ISFps are one of the most empathetic creatures .

[Beautiful sky]

Martisa being empathetic doesn't necessarily mean being empathetic with you. If Fi types were to emphatize with everything all the time, that would make their life impossible. I catch myself being too emphathetic from time to time and I try to avoid it when there is no use (I mean I'm a vegetarian but I wear leather shoes. Do you empathize with animals enough Martisa not to eat them and not to use things made of leather?). What about people who hurt children? Do you also emphatize with them and do you believe it's a right thing to do?
Additionaly, I believe ISFps are one of the most empathetic creatures .

Ask my LSE BF, our lives are impossible with "too much feeling of empathy." Hence the "empath".

[Ver]

i agree with you that fi is strongly connected to empathy. But still you cannot base everybody elses.s type on your own traits. It seems to me that you compare others to you too much not taking into account they have individual traits different to your own.

[Radio]

HAPPY MARITSA DAY!

[Minde]

You've gone back before and pulled quotes from Minde's posts to support your typing of her. How is that in any way different and therefore less creepy than what she's doing to you?

I know, right? I recall awhile back her talking about printing things off and compiling evidence and data, or something to that effect... Stuff like that (as well as more outright malicious people) is why I've long ago decided to keep certain things about myself private.

Do you just have a general lack of appetite?
btw, I hope your toe is feeling better

Thanks! That's sweet of you to remember. It's pretty much healed, though I think I might have to deal with twinges every so often. My aunt says I should try to use it as a barometer.

I do end up having a lack of appetite, but I suspect that's because my body tries to adapt to not eating (often enough). For a long time I worked from home, which made healthy food preparation a lot easier. But in the last few months or so I've been doing a lot more of my work out and about. So I'm having to find new methods for making sure I get my body what it needs. It's a work in progress, but it kind of scares me a little to see some of these concrete signs...

Minde no thumbs up for you for pretending to be EII and acting like a chameleonated SEI/EII hybrid and for not knowing how or what empathy is and how it works.


Minde, I type you SEI and that's it; it's done and FINAL. I forgot Sulkafinale.

Heh, ok.

("Nevermore," quoth the raven, "nevermore.")

Actions count more than words.

[Beautiful sky]

I don't do sarcasm. I'm a serious type. I will never say things like "oh, that's great." or "oh that's fantastic" to be sarcastic which by the way stems from Fe. That makes me angry because I first of all ignore it and second of all I like to stomp it out. When I said no thumbs up for you, I wasn't being sarcastic. I was damn serious.

[Minde]

While we're all silent, morose, and bad-tempered out of annoyance or disappointment (or not, as the case may be), I'll post a couple pictures from my weekend:







My brother and I got a few horseback riding lessons for my young cousin, who loves horses. (She said she doesn't want to drive cars when she gets older but ride a horse instead because "car exhaust kills trees but horse poop doesn't. ) It was a gorgeous, misty, damp, freeze-your-fingers-off day that made me think of all sorts of lovely stories...

A couple of llamas share pasture with the horse, and they appear to like staring at me, pretty much like this, almost the whole time:



It was a bit unnerving at times and made me want to watch the Emperor's New Groove...

[717495]

Nice fog.

[Beautiful sky]

HARMONIZER (Fe-SEI)
They appear alive, emotional and free in their dialogue. They are able to easily string together lines of dialogue while willingly paying compliments; this ease carries a shade of familiarity. Shyness can be overcome by playful remarks; they easily speak ironically in a serious/valid tone. They often joke and can speak even of unpleasant things with a smile, but they are sure not to offend the person; they are precautionary and careful. At times they are impatient and restless, from time to time they quarrel with others but are easily appeased and forgiving. Usually optimistic; like to give and receive pleasure; often gives people compliments and often renders various services; are able to cheer up and encourage others. Seem serene for they are prone to hide negative emotions from strangers/simple acquaintances. They speak quickly and confidently, at times categorically, with imperative intonations. Appears noticeable and quick, at times significant; movements are assured and graceful but a little bit gusty.

[Beautiful sky]

You see when someone comes to you and says "I'm dealing with these issues", someone who sympathizes will say "I know how you feel," while an empath will say "I feel for you," or "I feel how you feel." It's the difference between recognizing how someone feels and feeling it for yourself. One is external, the other is recognized when the same feeling is reverberated within them. Empathizing is a personal feeling, another person's own feelings has become your own.

Empathy, just like Marie did, helps an LSE understand the situation from another person's shoes which they don't because they don't care about certain people sometimes.

[Absurd]

True and one, and only EII - Maritsa.

[Beautiful sky]

It's a good test of who's really an Fi or an EII anyway for me to keep talking about one subject because introverts of Fi type will want to persist in one direction; it's a form of deep abstracted thinking and something that introverts are known for depending upon their particular type of introverted function. Jung makes this clear in his book pg 283

[Marie84]

Awww....Marie, you're using empathy to communicate to me what "shoes" she could be in. That's so empathetic of you. That's how empathy is used and not how she uses it which is "I empathize with them." That's not empathy. You're trying to feel how she feels about it and trying to get me and others to feel how she feels about it too. SHE'S OBVIOUSLY NOT AN EMPATH BECAUSE IF SHE WERE, SHE WOULD RELIZE THAT.

Two thumbs up for you for knowing how empathy works.

Minde no thumbs up for you for pretending to be EII and acting like a chameleonated SEI/EII hybrid and for not knowing how or what empathy is and how it works.


Minde, I type you SEI and that's it; it's done and FINAL. I forgot Sulkafinale.

I think you're making a lot of assumptions about Minde; I don't know her personally but she comes across as an inoffensive and considerate member whose jumped-in to keep the peace even when the situations didn't involve her; to me, that is a sign of an empathic person.

To be quite honest, I can't think of a single reason why you would dislike her, unless there is something that went on between you two off-forum

Thanks! That's sweet of you to remember. It's pretty much healed, though I think I might have to deal with twinges every so often. My aunt says I should try to use it as a barometer.

I do end up having a lack of appetite, but I suspect that's because my body tries to adapt to not eating (often enough). For a long time I worked from home, which made healthy food preparation a lot easier. But in the last few months or so I've been doing a lot more of my work out and about. So I'm having to find new methods for making sure I get my body what it needs. It's a work in progress, but it kind of scares me a little to see some of these concrete signs...

I don't know if this would help, but have you tried making your dinners for the week and keeping them in the freezer? I've been doing this for the past few months since having a non-consistent schedule; I generally partially cook than freeze them, and take one out the night before to thaw in the fridge, so when I heat them up when I come home they're not overcooked

You see when someone comes to you and says "I'm dealing with these issues", someone who sympathizes will say "I know how you feel," while an empath will say "I feel for you," or "I feel how you feel." It's the difference between recognizing how someone feels and feeling it for yourself. One is external, the other is recognized when the same feeling is reverberated within them. Empathizing is a personal feeling, another person's own feelings has become your own.

Empathy, just like Marie did, helps an LSE understand the situation from another person's shoes which they don't because they don't care about certain people sometimes.

Empathy just describes an ability to identify with how someones feels, it doesn't necessarily mean you've accurately gauged the feelings of the person/people in question. In this sense, a person could just be projecting their own feelings rather than resonating with anothers

It's a good test of who's really an Fi or an EII anyway for me to keep talking about one subject because introverts of Fi type will want to persist in one direction; it's a form of deep abstracted thinking and something that introverts are known for depending upon their particular type of introverted function. Jung makes this clear in his book pg 283

Jungian typology is not really the same as Augusta's Model A, so while what you're saying about Fi here might apply to Jung there is no where in Model A that suggests such a thing. In fact, I'd think "persisting in one direction" is related more to Ni in Model A, which is basically described as a process towards the future

[Beautiful sky]

Empathy just describes an ability to identify with how someones feels, it doesn't necessarily mean you've accurately gauged the feelings of the person/people in question. In this sense, a person could just be projecting their own feelings rather than resonating with anothers



Jungian typology is not really the same as Augusta's Model A, so while what you're saying about Fi here might apply to Jung there is no where in Model A that suggests such a thing. In fact, I'd think "persisting in one direction" is related more to Ni in Model A, which is basically described as a process towards the future

It's clear from your writings that you haven't read Jung's typology because if you had, you would see that all of it was borrowed by Augusta who used it to make a structured model. ENTp do that, they take an existing idea, a framework of an idea and apply it to a system, hence that fits into ; you've said this several times and I'm afraid you speak out of ignorance and lack of knowledge when you make such assertions without due cause and without due diligence to knowledge.

It would also help if you looked up empathy as well.

[Absurd]

You're guided Maritsa. Care to tell me who is guiding you?

[Marie84]

It's clear from your writings that you haven't read Jung's typology because if you had, you would see that all of it was borrowed by Augusta who used it to make a structured model.

I well aware that she used various theories and view points when she assembled her Socionics model, one of them being Jungs, but her definitions of the information elements are non ad verbum to Jungs http://socionics.us/works/socion2.shtml#1

ENTp do that, they take an existing idea, a framework of an idea and apply it to a system, hence that fits into ; you've said this several times and I'm afraid you speak out of ignorance and lack of knowledge when you make such assertions without due cause and without due diligence to knowledge.

It would also help if you looked up empathy as well

Whatever, this is just going to go in circles again. I'm well aware that you're confident in your knowledge, I however am of the opinion that since Augusta created Socionics, that is the system in which the types are modeled after; anything that contradicts them is simply a separate theory and not Socionics. That being said, if I followed Jungs model, I'd be on a Jungian forum, not here trying to "convert" people to Jungian typology

[Beautiful sky]

I well aware that she used various theories and view points when she assembled her Socionics model, one of them being Jungs, but her definitions of the information elements are non ad verbum to Jungs http://socionics.us/works/socion2.shtml#1



Whatever, this is just going to go in circles again. I'm well aware that you're confident in your knowledge, I however am of the opinion that since Augusta created Socionics, that is the system in which the types are modeled after; anything that contradicts them is simply a separate theory and not Socionics. That being said, if I followed Jungs model, I'd be on a Jungian forum, not here trying to "convert" people to Jungian typology

Being "aware" isn't actually having read it and if you have read it then answer this question. Who was the "founder" of the theory of the creative function? It's in Jung's work. If, of course you haven't read this, then you can't say that Jung's work is distinctly different from that of Augustas because you don't have anything to compare to but are just stating your feelings on something without any conclusive and through understanding. Go ahead and answer the question.

If you haven't read it Marie, don't go championing Augusta as the founder of Socionics, she just made the model of intertype relations in symbols; Jung has discussed every aspect of Socionics in his book.

[Marie84]

Being "aware" isn't actually having read it and if you have read it then answer this question. Who was the "founder" of the theory of the creative function? It's in Jung's work. If, of course you haven't read this, then you can't say that Jung's work is distinctly different from that of Augustas because you don't have anything to compare to but are just stating your feelings on something without any conclusive and through understanding. Go ahead and answer the question.

You don't seem to get it; it doesn't matter what Jung says in regards to information elements when referring to Socionics. Trying to use Jung when discussing Socionics typology is like speaking a Western Germanic language in English class, than correcting everyone else by claiming they're speaking the wrong language because English comes from Germanic languages.

Jung and Socionics are not the same thing, regardless of the fact that Augusta used Jung's work to build her own system

And yes, I have read some of Jungs work, including his psychological type definitions, and I don't particularly care for the latter. I'm of the opinion that Augusta did a much better job in creating a more realistic model that's not as vague as Jungs, and is actually consistently accurate in my experience

If you haven't read it Marie, don't go championing Augusta as the founder of Socionics, she just made the model of intertype relations in symbols; Jung has discussed every aspect of Socionics in his book.

"Socionics in psychology, is a theory of information processing and personality type, distinguished by its information model of the psyche (called Model A) and a model of interpersonal relations. It incorporates Carl Jung's work on Psychological Types with Antoni Kępiński's theory of information metabolism. Socionics is a modification of Jung's personality type theory that uses eight psychic functions, in contrast to Jung's model, which used only four. These functions process information at varying levels of competency and interact with the corresponding function in other individuals, giving rise to predictable reactions and impressions—a theory of intertype relations.

Socionics was developed in the 1970s and '80s, primarily by the Lithuanian researcher Aušra Augustinavičiūtė, an economist, sociologist, and dean of the Vilnius Pedagogical University's department of family science. The name "socionics" is derived from the word "society", because Augustinavičiūtė believed that each personality type has a distinct purpose in society, which can be described and explained by socionics."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socionics

Conclusion, Socionics incorporates Jungian typology, but it is not Jungian typology

[717495]

They're all descriptions of the same manifestations, the same functions. Saying one is simply different, black-and-white, makes you look limited in scope and unaware of the quality and objectivity of these statistical correlations, thus one would assume your typings are limited in scope. If you read Aushra enough you'll realize she just reformed the same accounts as Jung has written, she did not 'invent' something new and more complete, but simply made her own observations and categorizations with her own human experience as we all do.

[ashlesha]

i'm pretty sure if you all just keep communicating you will find a solution to this problem in no time.

[EyeSeeCold]

[Creepy-bg]

eyeseecold i edited the music out of your post. don't use it in threads, it annoys people. if we want to keep this tag for the profile pages, people can't use in other places.

[EyeSeeCold]

aw, alright then

[Creepy-bg]

aw, alright then

yeah sorry. I personally find it humorous for background noises to turn up in threads, but hkkmr is pretty iffy on having autoplaying anything anywhere, and it does annoy some people. so i want to keep it confined to the profile pages so that we can at least have that.

[Beautiful sky]

You don't seem to get it; it doesn't matter what Jung says in regards to information elements when referring to Socionics. Trying to use Jung when discussing Socionics typology is like speaking a Western Germanic language in English class, than correcting everyone else by claiming they're speaking the wrong language because English comes from Germanic languages.

Jung and Socionics are not the same thing, regardless of the fact that Augusta used Jung's work to build her own system

And yes, I have read some of Jungs work, including his psychological type definitions, and I don't particularly care for the latter. I'm of the opinion that Augusta did a much better job in creating a more realistic model that's not as vague as Jungs, and is actually consistently accurate in my experience



"Socionics in psychology, is a theory of information processing and personality type, distinguished by its information model of the psyche (called Model A) and a model of interpersonal relations. It incorporates Carl Jung's work on Psychological Types with Antoni Kępiński's theory of information metabolism. Socionics is a modification of Jung's personality type theory that uses eight psychic functions, in contrast to Jung's model, which used only four. These functions process information at varying levels of competency and interact with the corresponding function in other individuals, giving rise to predictable reactions and impressions—a theory of intertype relations.

Socionics was developed in the 1970s and '80s, primarily by the Lithuanian researcher Aušra Augustinavičiūtė, an economist, sociologist, and dean of the Vilnius Pedagogical University's department of family science. The name "socionics" is derived from the word "society", because Augustinavičiūtė believed that each personality type has a distinct purpose in society, which can be described and explained by socionics."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socionics

Conclusion, Socionics incorporates Jungian typology, but it is not Jungian typology

You didn't answer my question. Who created the concept of the secondary function and identified it's importance to the psyche?

They're all descriptions of the same manifestations, the same functions. Saying one is simply different, black-and-white, makes you look limited in scope and unaware of the quality and objectivity of these statistical correlations, thus one would assume your typings are limited in scope. If you read Aushra enough you'll realize she just reformed the same accounts as Jung has written, she did not 'invent' something new and more complete, but simply made her own observations and categorizations with her own human experience as we all do.

She can not identify the similarity of Jung to the descriptions of the functions as they are now because she hasn't read any of his work. Obviously. She can't even say how Jung describes Fi.


Go ahead Marie, do tell us the Jung description of Fi.

[Beautiful sky]

I'll get back to the topic of empathy with EII, but for now, watching "Arranged" (2009) starring a lovely SEI Jewish young teacher and an SEI Syrian young teacher in their experience on an arranged marriage in their culture. It's interesting to see this contrast and also to see it as a non fundamentalist Christian.

[Marie84]

You didn't answer my question. Who created the concept of the secondary function and identified it's importance to the psyche?

In one ear, out the other?

She can not identify the similarity of Jung to the descriptions of the functions as they are now because she hasn't read any of his work. Obviously. She can't even say how Jung describes Fi.


Go ahead Marie, do tell us the Jung description of Fi.

Again, I don't care about Jung cognitive functions and I'm not going to play dichotomy war fair on a Socionics board. If you prefer using Jungs original model to Augusta's modulation than there are a lot of other sites to have these discussions

[Kim]

Delta problems!

Cross-quadra problems