How so? I said super generic things about LSI there.Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon
I basically said this person is Ti dominant and Ne polr. ... so where do you want to go from there?
How so? I said super generic things about LSI there.
I basically said this person is Ti dominant and Ne polr. ... so where do you want to go from there?
An example would be is if you talk about an idea that is not conclusive, like Socionics, the first thing that the LSI will do is say "I want to see proof of it." An LSI only wants to come to the validity of an IDEA through their own senses and intelligent logical uses, like reading a book. And, an SLI might think it's interesting.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Whole Gamma quadra is LSI then, Maritsa. And Black.
well what's the point of just rephrasing the socionic functions?
EXAMPLES.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Maritsa, thank you for interpreting my question to mean i needed an example...
But I disagree with you equating Ti with reading a book, which is more per my understanding of an embodiment of Te.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Actually you're kinda looking at this the wrong way; remember a Ti is the person's "own" understanding of something because they are introverted thinkers and because their internal thinking needs to be evaluated based on their own visual accord...so reading a book is not only to gather facts where the Ti person would make logical systems and conclusions but it would be also a visual thing right...static. A Te type would just view it as something that you're interested in among other dynamic things that happen in the world.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Lol ok. I was also thinking this a super old thread when I wrote that, but I also have an SLI and LSI in my life that I love dearly and felt like both your descriptions were not doing them justice.Meh, I more or less renounce those statements as having any sort of significant value. I think most comments I've made before 2012, especially pre-2013, are worth being reconsidered.
LSI and SLI differ mostly by nature of their quadra values.
SLI is more likely to comment on how to be more effective or efficient at doing things, with a slant towards minimizing effort and maximizing quality. General disregard for
LSI is more likely to comment on whether or not things fit a certain program, structure, set of ethics, or other rational framework. General disregard for
But you can have stickler asshole SLIs, and chill LSIs.
/socionics generalizations for the ... non-win.
OK so I just have to jump in here bc I feel like ISTj/ISTp is among the least understood of all the types. I've also noticed that if you give the test to someone who does it halfheartedly, or who is a E6 phobic, in both cases they come out as ISTj or ISTp. Like people who to you are obviously Exxx, or xNxx, will somehow type as ISTj/p, and you're like wtf. I think it's bc these two on the surface are the least conspicuous, most easy to pretend you're like them if you don't really know what you are and are insecure about appearing another way.
Anyway, similarities:
-both are completely different around people they know vs. people they don't know
-both appear at first like they could care less. both are selfish assholes, but also generally liked by all maybe bc they stay neutral
-both have that really easy "cool"ness that intuitives kind of have to work at
-both hang around in casuals and are homebodies, though they can suddenly be energized and feel like roaming
-both are super independent and resist external pressure to do something they don't want to
Differences. Here I'll put a disclaimer that I think it matters which quadra/type the observer (me) is. Like since I'm beta and IEI, my descriptions may be slanted. I mean I have activity relations in one, which is great. ISTj is Fe-seeking and Ni-HA, and responding delightfully to everything I say. I have super ego relations with the other, which is difficult. My cuteness is totally hit and miss here. So there is a limit to how objective I can be.
-ISTp communicates in a direct, matter-of-fact way. Due to Fi-valuing, he will express directly how he feels about something. So a stoic ISTp may suddenly be like omggg aww that's terrible! when he sees a dead bunny, because he loves animals and that genuinely upsets him and he's not going to try and pretend otherwise to appear manly.
-ISTj communicates by provoking others and making edgy jokes. He gets that what you say may not be what you mean (Fe-valuing) and that's fine as long as you can keep it emotionally vibrant. He will make fun of the dead bunny.
-ISTp likes to gather information (Te). This is a never ending process. For this reason they are avid readers.
-ISTj stops gathering information at a certain point, and will react to new information derisively. They already know what they need to know, and new info is getting in the way of Ti.
-ISTp is welcoming of new people in a group (democratic). A new person doesn't have ties yet, so being nice will predispose them towards ISTp which will give leverage later. No force involved.
-ISTj will want to get an edge over the new person right away, esp if a Fe ego is around to give the atmosphere good vibes, then he may straight up bully. Volitional force (Se).
Ok it all made perfect sense until this part:
Can you rephrase it and explain a bit more?but it would be also a visual thing right...static. A Te type would just view it as something that you're interested in among other dynamic things that happen in the world.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
This is socionics gold.
Thanks!! i actually thought it was pretty darned objective...
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I once had a supervisor who yelled at me and made me almost cry because I was giving him too much detail. Meanwhile I thought that information was really important, and i came out with the impression that he is a careless worker who wants to bury his head in the sand to save him some time and work.
I would not be surprised if he were a socionic ISTj. In fact, that's the type I came up with for him.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
In which case your conflicting relations do not help either. Usually ISTj is very competent though. So is ISTp, for that matter... unless your job was all about interpersonal relations.
yeah interpersonal relations is a big component of our job, but so is knowledge and efficiency.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
An LSI tells you you are a stupid fucking piece of shit for asking this question.
An SLI..... they just bitch behind the scenes but, they aren't nearly as in-your-face.
Hey, you're a stupid fucking piece of shit.
Would this be one of those forum necros we discussed earlier? Holy Turn Of the Century, Batman.... 2007 thread resurrected!
LSI are homo. That's the difference.
LSIs are into martial arts, smile a lot, learn foreign languages
SLIs love routine, take drugs, smoke and work at the same time, like fat sexual partners
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
--> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
Wonder which one is Chuck Norris.
um... not really...
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Yes.
Not true at all, I think alot of SLI's including myself love martial arts and I also hate drugs. LSI's tend to love going to the gym as they are able to practice a steady routine.Bruce Lee is an SLI and he was the best for his time.
Si-creatives have to work at it too. (edit)
No. Don't get hung up on the p/j thing. Also the people you are agreeing with were wrong in the first place.
Yes.
Bruce Lee was not an introvert.
Sssonyyy had a great post. LSI makes fun of the bunny.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
a function is being equated to reading a book?
IEI, sp/sx 4w3.
no way.
LSI- Their base is Ti, so they consciously put people and everything else into logical categories and then relate to them through those categories, eg. If you're my boss, I'll respect you, etc. What they do in the world directly responds to who they think they are relative to all others, so they're sensitive about their reputation and care very much about appropriate behavior. They are not motivated by the actual results of an action but by the position it reflects. "A good worker should be punctual" They'll push these standards onto everyone else using Creative Se.
SLI - They have base Si, so it's all about internal sensations to them. With creative Te, these sensations are produced mostly by organizing movements, their own and everyone else's. In contrast to LSIs, SLIs are focused solely on the results of an action and disregard conventional logic, they will change their movements if it produces a reciprocal change in their internal sensations. Subconscious strong will (Se) manifests as tenaciously holding on to actions which bring pleasant sensations, regardless of logic. In fact, with Ti demonstrative, "common sense" for an SLI is that which feels right. They subconsciously disregard traditional logic and superimpose their own based on how actions make them feel. (this they have in common with ILIs, the difference being that ILIs' logic depends on how ideas make them feel. SLIs, about how actions feel.)
Last edited by ConcreteButterfly; 03-26-2014 at 07:32 AM.
ISTj/ISTp
Which type is more likely to run and hide and be by himself in a crowded room? And as a child, be relieved to get permission to be in a quiet room instead of the school cafeteria for lunches? When the home is full of guests all talking at once, run upstairs to his childhood bedroom to have some peace by himself and only come down when he has to (like when the meal served)? Or, working in a store and an extremely busy sale day comes, retreats to the back room til the crowd settles? ISTj or ISTp, or another type (but I think in this case, not an "F").
(I can explain more about this person I am typing, but I'm trying not to be wordy, and curious for opinions).
Probably someone who prefers solitude and quiet over the company of others. Doesn't sound like any one socionics type.
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
Either one can have this behavior
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Ok, well I am trying to figure my SLI's son's type. I will dawn on me at some point, though.
@ Maritsa, this following sort of tells how I type. Last week we had my SLIs brother and wife over for dinner. After they left, SLI asked me, did I figure out his brother's and his wife's type yet? And I said no, it didn't dawn on me yet but it will, in its time. (I have spent time with them before). I said it will just "come".
And it did, the other night when I was up late here on forum reading and writing about Asking and Declaring, and I meant to go to bed but I suddenly saw rearranging I need to do in this room (I just moved) and while rearranging I remembered something Brother-in-law said, way back, that made me realize he was an Asker. Then immediately I realized other proofs he is Asker not Declarer. Finally I had something I was SURE of on - he was an Asker. That meant it was narrowed down to only 8 types, of which several I could surely eliminate. I turned the computer back on and wrote down the 8 types leaving two or three he could be and the first one that seemed him was ISTj. I went to the Gulenko description and it was him exactly. From there I figured out hers - went right to ESE and read that and realized it was her. So my mind was completely racing and I hardly slept that night.Told my SLI all about it.
Later I was discussing how I had wondered when i had seen his brother bow out and escape to be alone at an odd time, for an oddly extended time. He said his brother used to do that in their store when it got crazy-busy - just leave and hide out in storeroom till the crowd dispersed. And they had a lot of employees and plenty of I's among them, and he was the only one that did this. Then SLI told me his son did the same thing in school, with the special quiet room instead of cafeteria. Then it occurred to me for the first time his son might be ISTj instead of the ISTp I thought. Since then I have seen all these differences in SLI and his son, and how has more things, certain characteristics, in common with his LSI brother than him. Like, my SLI has a slow and smooth walk. LSI brother has a fast, stiffer walk, in comparison to my SLI its almost alarming -- then I realized that SLI's son has a fast fast way of walking across the room, too, even a small room, and his movements about the house are like SLI's LSI brother, and not at all like SLIs. (SLI paces a lot, too, a wandering sort of pace, and his brother and his son do not do that). And I realize I do not get a calm feeling from either LSI like I get from my SLIs and other SLIs I know, and I realize the certain type of curious interest both brother and son have shown me seems like vaguely the very same thing! Vague stuff like that, but lots of it.
I always thought his son was SLI since he has so much more in common with him than his SEE daughter. But I am thinking LSI.
And you might be interested in this since you like VI. The Gulenko picture, the hair looks so much like my LSI priest. Well the LSI brother in-law, his hair kind of looks like that! Its distinctive! Then I just now realized, SLI's son really, even with his wavy longer hair, it does have a bit of that wildly "up" look to it, too. Similar hairline on all three but different degrees of how back it goes, but the line is similar. Yet they all three look very different from each other... Interesting, huh?
@Maritsa, I found a thread here on VI. These things are really neat that "@Rocky" shared (knowing little to nothing about VI before this):
- "The eyes, yes, they can often tell more. Intuitives have more of a wandering gaze, STs have that "eagle-eye" which makes them look like they are concentrating on one specific point in space, introverts have their attention more sucked in to their head, etc... " Yes, most striking about the LSI brother's eyes is the eagle eye look! I guess ISTp should have one too but his eyes like Gabin's are softer, like kinder.
- "What I *do* believe in heavily in VI is the body movements. The system is very simplistic, and somewhat clear-cut (at least more black and white then the ambiguous faces). Soon you will be able to break down people into groups of four solely on watching them move (and then in half, and then down to one if you couldn't tell by their personality at that point)." Whoa, that's what I just did today for the first time! Analyze movements!
- "The other things is just look around you. After time you will notice that people you encounter remind you of people who you've known in the past based off of looks, mannerisms, voice etc... " I did that too!
- (In post #18 Rocky explains motor cortex and movements of the 4 groups but I canot quite get it - do you< Maritisa?)
- In the same post, this I can see better: "After you have them down to four types, the difference between the judgers and perceivers is more on how "holistic" their movements are. Perceivers are more "smooth", and can even seem like they are all over the place. The judgers are more "mechanical", but their movements seem more planned and sequential. " Yes, that's the difference I perceived in ISTj/ISTp
- "OK, so the only thing left is the E/I. This is probably the hardest thing to tell *just* from movements (actually they're pretty much the same). One differences is that introverts are more energy conserving and extroverts are energy expending. Another thing is the attention to the outside world (extroverts) like I mentioned above, of the more "withdrawn attention, sucked into their heads (introverts). I guess you can notice other little idiosyncrasies to differentiate, but that's a start." That part in red, I saw that in my Bro-in-law and decided for sure he was Introvert.
Besides a little bickering, there is some other good stuff n that thread. I am going to stop reposting it and just read it....
LOL, @Creepy-male in #55 says ENFps remind him of cats! And I have been told that! [and what he says about how he types sounds a lot like how I type! He is definitely an intuitive type).
And from this interesting thread by @Timeless:
The way I see it:
IP: Energy is more inward focused.
Objective description: State of casualness.
Subjective description: Lazy-looking pussies.
EP: Energy is more outward focused.
Objective description: State of adaptability.
Subjective description: Detached-looking bitches.
IJ: Energy is more inward focused.
Objective description: State of stability.
Subjective description: Stiff-looking fuckers.
EJ: Energy is more outward focused.
Objective description: State of mobilization.
Subjective description: Stubborn-looking assholes.
Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 09-06-2014 at 05:59 AM.
I'm an extravert type and I still get overloaded by people. I live in a house of five people and it gets a bit much sometimes, especially when the more talkative ones are home.
I wouldn't use that to tell types apart.
You can't type by an antisocial gesture, especially IMO in the context of family. Basic human needs include privacy, autonomy, time to reflect / integrate ... Any number of reasons could lie behind that action.
Also, some people have a lower threshold for sensory input, and I doubt that's entirely type- related. Working in a school I saw it more often in boys than in girls, and the consensus among education types is that they somewhat outgrow that trait. My son has had some of these issues and I type him ENTp. Now you can barely tell he was ever like that ... He wants to be around ppl almost all the time if they are known and trusted. He used to retreat to his room, and now he only does it when he's very pissed off.
You're on a somewhat better track with looking at eyes and body language. LSI will probably have a more penetrating gaze and the eyes will probably dart from detail to detail or suddenly flick a little ... Not sure else how to describe that. LSI will also probably seem more vertical in movements, more drawn in, more orderly or even stiff. Linear, and inner tension behind a calm-seeming surface ... They often seem like that. I also can sort of imagine a thought balloon above their heads-- obviously that's subjective.
I could describe some SLIs I know, but I think my perceptions of them are perhaps unfair, because I obviously irritate them tons, so I doubt I see them at their best.
Really these two types don't seem alike to me excepts in the most superficial way.
Last thought is my LSI husband has an EXFp mother and though he's very patient in his interactions with her and appreciates her caring nature, I know from his tone and the content of his statements alone that he is working super hard to be patient ... It almost sounds patronizing. And he didn't feel understood in his family growing up.
Nah, not really....
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
This is so true. Thank you.
I think the one that I bold is the reason why I keep falling for an SLI.
I'm seeing 2 guys atm, a LSI and SLI. And I've dated both types in the past. And I work in an industry where most of the men are SLI, LSI, SLE and LSE. So they're no strangers to me. If I have to describe my ideal type of man, it would probably an LSI or SLI.
Anyway, one thing that I notice is, the SLI tend to ask questions in detail, like what time you start, what time you finish, don't work too hard, like that one that I bold "that's terrible, you must be tired, don't work too hard, etc." like they wanna make sure that I'm ok, safe, like make sure he's being a good supervisor to me. And I end up answering "I will" like being a good supervisee? I don't know. This is probably how supervision relationship looks like.
If I compare that to the reaction of my close friend who's my dual, an ESI, he was like "wow, you're so busy, you're a super woman, I know you can do it, etc." there's like admiration and trust in this relationship, he knows I really like to work and being busy and he admires that.
With an LSI, well, we don't really talk about time schedule in detail.
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