Taylor Swift

[Still Alive]

@Bethanyclaire: I personally think that almost all artistcally creative people are intuitives. It just makes the most sense from a theoretical perspective.

https://youtu.be/K-a8s8OLBSE?si=ytubJK0x2nok42ek

Look at her video for her song cardigan. She steps into her piano to enter a fantasy world that is probably based on her imagination. Vivid daydreams are a regular symbolism for her. I think beta NF makes more sense for her than Alpha. I also have serious doubts that Travis Kelce has extroverted sensing as weakness. I am non-competitive and have a very difficult time paying attention to external reality. Meanwhile he plays in a super competitive, physical sport in which you have to be constantly aware of your surroundings and confrontational. I think Kelce is an IEI-D. I could see them getting serious but both seem very emotional to me, and I personally don't analyze relationships all that much.

[chriscorey]

greatest artist since Shakespeare and Van Gogh

[chriscorey]

I don't like Taylor Swift on a personal level. I haven't listened to more than one of her songs, but I've seen her on stage with other performers, and she seems entirely self-interested to me.
I don't think she's healthy, because it seems to me that she needs to be loved by strangers, and keeps kicking her boyfriend de jure to the curb once she's gotten what she wants from him (which is attention from her adolescent fans). "Let me pretend to fall in love this week with a football player who is playing in the Superbowl, so I can kiss him on the biggest show of the year and be seen by more people than anyone in the world." A month from now, he'll be gone.

I think she's unhealthy, just as Trump is not a healthy SEE. In Trump's case, you can see the SEE under there, but you also see the overwhelming narcissism, which is not in the Socionics descriptions of any type. In Taylor's case, she needs attention from strangers, which is Fe carried to the nth degree. She also has an extremely high level of Si, which shows up in her control over her voice and her body motions, and in the costumes that she wears.

When a person is unhealthy, they become harder to type because the personality is obscured by insanity, but personally, I think that Taylor Swift is SEI, even though she looks 100% extroverted. She looks exactly like an SEI whom I worked with for twelve years, but the SEI with whom I worked was healthy and was actually nice to be around. An extroverted SEI is an ESE, but I don't think she is ESE. Swift's face is thinner and sharper than a typical ESE's face. Therefore, the extroversion she exhibits is an act, designed to win the adulation that she unhealthily craves.

On the other hand, I'm grateful for the fact that she's a liberal democrat (small "d" - Alpha Quadra), and her efforts to get her fans to register to vote are admirable.

thanks Adam

[fbx]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KNWF9l3cTXI


My boy JV making waves

https://firstsportz.com/nba-news-tra...uper-bowl-win/

[fbx]

@chriscorey you will enjoy this one





State of Art All time fave

[FDG]

Clear SEE. I know more than one person who looks similar, and they are all married to rich ILIs.

[FDG]

I don't like Taylor Swift on a personal level. I haven't listened to more than one of her songs, but I've seen her on stage with other performers, and she seems entirely self-interested to me.
I don't think she's healthy, because it seems to me that she needs to be loved by strangers, and keeps kicking her boyfriend de jure to the curb once she's gotten what she wants from him (which is attention from her adolescent fans). "Let me pretend to fall in love this week with a football player who is playing in the Superbowl, so I can kiss him on the biggest show of the year and be seen by more people than anyone in the world." A month from now, he'll be gone.

I think she's unhealthy, just as Trump is not a healthy SEE. In Trump's case, you can see the SEE under there, but you also see the overwhelming narcissism, which is not in the Socionics descriptions of any type. In Taylor's case, she needs attention from strangers, which is Fe carried to the nth degree. She also has an extremely high level of Si, which shows up in her control over her voice and her body motions, and in the costumes that she wears.

When a person is unhealthy, they become harder to type because the personality is obscured by insanity, but personally, I think that Taylor Swift is SEI, even though she looks 100% extroverted. She looks exactly like an SEI whom I worked with for twelve years, but the SEI with whom I worked was healthy and was actually nice to be around. An extroverted SEI is an ESE, but I don't think she is ESE. Swift's face is thinner and sharper than a typical ESE's face. Therefore, the extroversion she exhibits is an act, designed to win the adulation that she unhealthily craves.

On the other hand, I'm grateful for the fact that she's a liberal democrat (small "d" - Alpha Quadra), and her efforts to get her fans to register to vote are admirable.

False. You should meet my best ILI buddy´s SEE-Fi wife (they even divorced and got married again....typical gamma irration). She is basically the clone of Taylor Swift. When you see it you can´t unsee it. I´d say you are a bit too harsh on her. She´s surely no angel, but she didn´t kill anyone. The SEI you worked with for 12 years was SEE: if you are LIE, you would have not been able to work with your conflictor for such a large amount of time, 2-3 months are you are done.

Listen to what she says in some of her most famous songs...."I go on too many dates...but I can´t make them stay...that´s what people say"...typical Fi creative. If you disagree, you are wrong (yes, the old FDG from 10 years ago is finally back, thank god...).

[Still Alive]

Her new album is called The Tortured Poets Department. Do you guys really not see intuition in her? I don't understand

[Bethanyclaire]

I just think she is a well-balanced person with well-developed ni. Rebelondeck called the polr 'soft underbelly' of a person..if it's developed well it can be a strength.

I think she was born in the right place, at the right time. I think she had a good childhood, despite lamenting about feeling like she didn't fit it, I think she is very aware of how fortunate she is. She just knew she had observations that people would relate to..she seems to absorb culture and then create something new..whilst being an excellent observer of human behaviour.

[Bethanyclaire]

arguably, you could say we all have a sort of 'second type', a type which we resemble or identify with, for Taylor I would probably say that was IEI as well..for myself IEE lol.

[kuno]

Her new album is called The Tortured Poets Department. Do you guys really not see intuition in her? I don't understand

I do see the intuition, but I think Taylor is EIE, not IEI. Her Fe is clearly dominant as she is invigorated by the crowds and the love of her fans (and the world). Her visions for her career and influence extend beyond the here and now, which is how she has managed to create such an empire for herself filled with fame and glory, all around the world. I see plenty of Fe + Ni, but she is no introvert, and I don’t care what anyone says about that, tbh. Even if Taylor occasionally describes herself as an introvert, it makes no difference to me. No introvert is as outwardly-oriented and tuned into how others feel/what others want than she is. I also believe Taylor is probably a social 2w3 in the Enneagram, but I’m not entirely sure about her Enneagram type + instincts yet.

[kuno]

I also think ESE is another good option for Taylor Swift. Obviously Fe base, either way. But I’m leaning slightly more towards EIE. The thing about Taylor is that it’s hard to really guess what her actual personality is since her public persona is so carefully crafted to win others’ admiration and support. I like T Swift, but she’s no angel…

[qaz00]

Taylor Swift - DN-IEI-Fe
Travis Kelce - DH-SLE-Se>EIE

[godslave]

There is a basic principle that I got from Dr.G and that I consider true and reliable :

Extroverts behave and resemble Introverts in the private sphere (close psychological distance)

Introverts behave and resemble Extroverts in the private sphere (close psychological distance)

That's a basic truth of the human condition, however the degree with which that phenomenon occurs depends on various factors pertaining to the individual's own development. That said, it's always noticeable. One can experience that state of fact throughout one's life, in family members, siblings, classmate, friends etc..

If you hesitate between typing someone as Introvert or Extrovert you can contrast and compare that individual's demeanor in public and in private.

Taylor Swift is like a Super Extrovert (I mean it as conscious orientation) I wouldn't be surprised if her demeanor is more like the "shy" person in private. If one has some material on her behavior in private one could verify it. I suspect that she is just like those Extroverts who consider themselves as Introverts or "ambiverts" (which everybody is to a certain degree). Michael Jackson, Hilter, Chaplin, Freddie Mercury were good example of EIE in whom the phenomenon was clearly demonstrated.

[tenebrae]

I don't like her. I don't think she's IEI. She's so middle of the road, her songs are often full of descriptions of her own experiences, she's not too universal for me... she's a great songwriter - I'm not taking that away from her - but she always fails to convey important topics that society (American society especially) are dealing with. She also never says anything about those people who paint her as an "Aryan goddess" or the face of Republican female population. I'd rather think she's ESE.

And for her new album title - I don't like how you are painting the poetic aesthetic as a thing only Ni types do. It's not what it's named, it's about the motivation. She's simply hopping on the trend of being a deep, thoughtful poet. That's literally it.

And that title sucks, by the way. Sometimes you gotta be a bit more subtle!

[Distance]

I don't get the push pull energy of extraversion in interviews. If you push out energy, you lose it and tire, there is no gain. Extraversion is being lit in real-time and you gain in a pulling in dynamic. I don't see it.

Another way to look at E vs I is reserved or assertive behaviors. Both types are both, but it is where you start at.

Introversion is heavily coupled to "I" and you translate experiences through yourself subjectively relating to the outer world. Is it the royal I or the royal we?

I get more reservedness out of her, than the other way. Plus, i don't see the ESE EJ in the 1/16 type.

[tenebrae]

I might support an introtim type for her though. But IDK, I just don't like her. She's boring.

[Bethanyclaire]

nah ESE!

ESE and IEI can really love each other. (Like she is besties with Selena Gomez and Blake Lively).

I noticed it with SEI/EIE too. (Paul Mescal/Andrew Scott). How dare SEIs like EIEs more than me

[Salty]

EII. Contact me for phone number for further research.

[ren aeger]

I don't think Taylor leads with extroverted feeling. It looks like it though, but I think that's apart of her brand. Her main form of confrontation is guilting; manipulating the narrative through her music, her style and her interviews, mobilizing and swaying peoples' emotions to get into their good graces, or at least, on her side. She was only (for a moment) outdone by a similarly overly dramatic SEE, Kanye West himself. Even that situation, she used to further herself. She directly confronted Katy Perry when Perry was the bigger pop girl and weaved together a good enough strategy to knock her off the top spot. She has admitted, in her music, to fear losing her high position to the next big pop girl. Taylor is most certainly a modestly dressed SEE with good management and lawyers, excellent PR and (perhaps overly-involved) stage parents who also have incredible backgrounds themselves.

As a side-note, I think Selena Gomez is an ESI.

[loopyclouds]

EIE-Ni
The way she handles and manipulates her crowds is very Fe-dominant.
Not a sensor, definitely intuitive.

[Tallmo]

I don't think Taylor leads with extroverted feeling. It looks like it though, but I think that's apart of her brand. Her main form of confrontation is guilting; manipulating the narrative through her music, her style and her interviews, mobilizing and swaying peoples' emotions to get into their good graces, or at least, on her side. She was only (for a moment) outdone by a similarly overly dramatic SEE, Kanye West himself. Even that situation, she used to further herself. She directly confronted Katy Perry when Perry was the bigger pop girl and weaved together a good enough strategy to knock her off the top spot. She has admitted, in her music, to fear losing her high position to the next big pop girl. Taylor is most certainly a modestly dressed SEE with good management and lawyers, excellent PR and (perhaps overly-involved) stage parents who also have incredible backgrounds themselves.

As a side-note, I think Selena Gomez is an ESI.

The bold part sounds very much like Fe, advanced Fe. Are you saying it's not? Fe is about social adaptation, about being socially relevant, but it can be used in a myriad of creative ways when people are good at it. Meeting people's unconscious expectations for example (when combined with Ni), and using this for one's own benefit. Fe is common in popular culture and fashion.

[youfloweryourfeast]

I don't think she is ESE due to I think she has beta values and I don't really get how she's si creative, if you look further it's hard to see the si/ne vauling in her.

She reminds me greatly of my EIE mother..Someone who does a lot for others but is unable to care for themselves properly due to poor Si. If my mother were ESE or if Taylor were ESE, I'd notice their attention to Si which is not found within Taylor.

I don't believe there is anything wrong with this honestly, it's unlikely even an alpha sf would be able to come up with such lyrics, ideas as Taylor does tbh. Ni vs Si devaluing differences ofc.

Not sure abt her enneagram but I can see 2w3 which I want to say knowing my mother who is a 2 they can be very out there. If she's not what I think of a 2 maybe she is more a 3 due to her assertiveness.

[ren aeger]

Although I think Jung tends to write in moon rock, I've mostly derived my understanding from his original material. This is the outline for why I've come to the conclusion that Taylor is SEE.

From what I've interpreted, extraverted sensation types are primarily concerned with deriving pleasure without themselves—seeking enjoyment or excitement from the external. Extraverted feeling types are primarily concerned with abiding by objective reality. Extraverted sensing is acquisition of external things, experiences, achievements, power, and even people for the sake of new sensations. Extraverted feeling is abiding by external order for the sake of being in accordance with general, objective values. They are both consuming, but not in the same way, if that makes sense. In fact, extraverted feeling is probably more so subjugated.

Following this would either be introverted feeling, introverted sensation, or introverted intuition. These are reserving.

Introverted feeling is a subjective, depth of feeling. It is less emotive, but more immense. It is easy to overlook just how much access this type has to a comprehensive array of feeling because it's cut off from the traditional expression of it. This type best expresses through poetic forms or veiled religiosity to convey how well they understand deeper feeling. The trick with this type is that as long as there is something higher than the ego, they will be okay. Problems arise when they are egotists and nothing is above their subjective feeling. This can develop into paranoid states of being able to "think" (which is bad—it's unconscious for a reason) they feel others' intentions, which are always ill-intended schemes and plots. They fall into a state whereby they must take preventative measures, by all means, and will misuse and manipulate in order to befall their "secret" enemies. Thus, this type is notably vulnerable to "arrogant ambition" and "petty tyranny."

Introverted sensation is a type that goes with the flow—their flow. It is subjective and internally driven due to a cut off from external objects. These types are resolutely not influenced by objective content and often exude a self-possessiveness primarily concerned with creating sensations to their own liking—of convenience, comfort, health, aesthetic—instead of chasing external sensations. Since this type is cut off from external sensation, it is vulnerable to "intuiting" (again, bad) "dangerous" possibilities and ideas of the rejected objective reality. Thus, this type is notably vulnerable to doom and gloom.

Introverted intuition is even tougher for me to explain than what I've tried to accomplish above. I don't think I can. These types are otherworldly, future-oriented, and are truly, notably different. They're mostly concerned with an unintelligible vision. I didn't even consider this a possibility for Taylor. This is an easy one to spot, but a hard one to explain. You just... know.

Now, to put it together: Taylor strikes me as someone mostly concerned with seeking and obtaining external sensations. She absolutely seeks acquisition and expansion. She is self-admittedly calculating—or strategic as she would most likely prefer, all for the sake of snuffing out her perceived enemies, gaining (prior to having) and remaining in power. LDR confirmed Taylor does really want achievements "more than anyone else." She admitted her stable relationship was boring and seems to derive the most pleasure from her most tumultuous affairs. She absolutely throws her weight around, not to keep people in accordance, but to keep people beneath her. I think she is a fantastic writer because of her depth of understanding of feeling, and combined with this natural awareness, and consumption of/entwinedness with the objective reality around her (of which most the rest of us merely forfeit to), she is able to convey these feelings and sensations in a way that other people are able to easily grasp, and get lost in, and not know why. Possibly because they experience, but don't consume.

All in all, to me, this is base Se and second Fi. A base Fe and second Si wouldn't be able to "control", of the external as much as Taylor has shown she is. Or, if they could, they wouldn't care to. An ESE wouldn't have this much awareness, if that makes sense.

In conclusion...,

Ni is so far in the ether as a possibility, it probably wasn't worth me mentioning.

Thank you.

[ren aeger]

The bold part sounds very much like Fe, advanced Fe. Are you saying it's not? Fe is about social adaptation, about being socially relevant, but it can be used in a myriad of creative ways when people are good at it. Meeting people's unconscious expectations for example (when combined with Ni), and using this for one's own benefit. Fe is common in popular culture and fashion.

Whoops, forgot to hit reply.

[Still Alive]

you know socioncs is worthless when people suggest every type in the socion for one of the most public female of this planet. a useless theory with poorly defined metrics no one can adhere to

[loopyclouds]

I don’t get how anyone can see her as any other type than EIE. She screams EIE, albeit perhaps a more introverted one, EIE-H maybe.

[Braingel]

Only place Taylor has a chance of being EIE would be Model G.. But I think that school formally types her as an LSI-D or something (not that I agree it’s right at all).

[Braingel]

Virtually in all other models, Taylor Swift is a clear sensor. In the cognitive realm, there’s no way for an intuitive type.. As far as social role, a model like G that tries measure it, intuitive extrovert befits, because it’s primarily about social role and mission.


Belief formation, cognition, this woman isn’t an intuitive… But most people only understand personality from social role and behavior on this site..

[CherryCola]

I don't think Taylor leads with extroverted feeling. It looks like it though, but I think that's apart of her brand. Her main form of confrontation is guilting; manipulating the narrative through her music, her style and her interviews, mobilizing and swaying peoples' emotions to get into their good graces, or at least, on her side. She was only (for a moment) outdone by a similarly overly dramatic SEE, Kanye West himself. Even that situation, she used to further herself. She directly confronted Katy Perry when Perry was the bigger pop girl and weaved together a good enough strategy to knock her off the top spot. She has admitted, in her music, to fear losing her high position to the next big pop girl. Taylor is most certainly a modestly dressed SEE with good management and lawyers, excellent PR and (perhaps overly-involved) stage parents who also have incredible backgrounds themselves.

As a side-note, I think Selena Gomez is an ESI.

What you described is Fe, so how can you say she doesn't lead with it?

The bold part sounds very much like Fe, advanced Fe. Are you saying it's not? Fe is about social adaptation, about being socially relevant, but it can be used in a myriad of creative ways when people are good at it. Meeting people's unconscious expectations for example (when combined with Ni), and using this for one's own benefit. Fe is common in popular culture and fashion.

Exactly, she has very strong and sophisticated use of Fe.

you know socioncs is worthless when people suggest every type in the socion for one of the most public female of this planet. a useless theory with poorly defined metrics no one can adhere to

Socionis is a flawed system, but the biggest issue in this site is that people type based on whether they like a celebrity or not. And if they resemble someone they know.

Virtually in all other models, Taylor Swift is a clear sensor. In the cognitive realm, there’s no way for an intuitive type.. As far as social role, a model like G that tries measure it, intuitive extrovert befits, because it’s primarily about social role and mission.


Belief formation, cognition, this woman isn’t an intuitive… But most people only understand personality from social role and behavior on this site..

She has Ne which comes out in her songs and in the music videos she directs, but her songwriting is extremely Si. It's all about sensations, the weather, the atmosphere.

[Still Alive]

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldT...42103182027626

[Poptart]

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldT...42103182027626

LOL

[Still Alive]

LOL

People are shooting at him again. Weird country.

[Adam Strange]

People are shooting at him again. Weird country.

Actually, it was the secret service guys who did the shooting. They were shooting at some guy who poked an AK-47 through a fence at the golf course where Trump was playing.

Man, you'd think these guys would know that an AK-47 is not effective at long ranges.

https://viruscomix.com/page382.html

[Poptart]

People are shooting at him again. Weird country.

Weirder than Germany?

[Adam Strange]

Weirder than Germany?

In Germany, if you own a gun, you are expected to know how to use it properly.

[Still Alive]

Weirder than Germany?

Probably yeah, although I don't have a lot of great things to say about germany either.