What do you think of Switzerland as example of a Delta culture

[mikemex]

Please ignore the question if you know little to nothing about the country. I want to listen opinions from those who actually know something about it.

Switzerland is the only modern example of a Delta culture that comes to my mind. It's peaceful, stable and highly developed, both economically and socially. It's the birth place of some of the most important organizations of the entire world (like the red cross, for example). Yet the country seems to suffer from stagnation. Also, a lot of foreigners complain that the Swiss are conservative and xenophobic/elitist.

I can explain the last part through the aristocratic nature of the quadra. Yet I can't really explain the stagnation. Is it the end of the socion cycle? When everything works fine, then there is no need to change anything and one stops looking for new things. Eventually it becomes a routine to keep the system working, but it doesn't produce anything.

[hellothere]

Makes sense to me, from what I've read (which isn't a lot, so I can't really add anything). I'm going there at the end of the year to see some family

[akeaneau]

I've never been to Switzerland, but I've been fascinated by its political system. It's possibly the closest country to a true direct democracy, like ancient Athens. There's lots of referendums - people often get to vote on individual bills, rather than electing some clown to do it for them who they probably disagree with most of the time anyway.

It's also kind of interesting how they've had this habit of being neutral all the time. WW1, WW2...they're not even in the EU are they? But as to what quadra it's from, I'm afraid I wouldn't have a clue.

[Expat]

I know Switzerland somewhat, I've been there several times, but never lived or worked there.

It's also kind of interesting how they've had this habit of being neutral all the time. WW1, WW2...they're not even in the EU are they?

They're not in the EU, and they only joined the United Nations in 2002.

I can explain the last part through the aristocratic nature of the quadra. Yet I can't really explain the stagnation. Is it the end of the socion cycle? When everything works fine, then there is no need to change anything and one stops looking for new things. Eventually it becomes a routine to keep the system working, but it doesn't produce anything.

It's not that they "don't produce anything". It's more like, there is indeed a feeling, as far as I know, that things are fine as they are and the best thing is to keep it working as it is.

[Khola aka Bee]

They have Ikea and hot chicks. And wicked meatballs! I will be their friend!

[leckysupport]

They have Ikea and hot chicks. And wicked meatballs! I will be their friend!

That's Sweden.

[Khola aka Bee]

That's Sweden.

Oh yeah (moron)

They make good knives?

[leckysupport]

Oh yeah (moron)

OK, IT CAN BE WHERE EVER YOU WANT IT TO BE!!

[Expat]

Playing a bit of devil's advocate: I think that a lot that drives the "Swiss psyche" is a feeling of isolation, not only of themselves from the outside world, but also within, precisely because the individual cantons are so independent. I think this is driven by a sense of "finding security in isolation", but also some arrogance, as in, why should Switzerland need the rest of the world? But perhaps this is unfair.

Also, it sounds like a cliche but it's largely true: what allowed them to build up their economy was not only their neutrality - so they not only survived the two world wars but actually profited from them, by trading with everyone - but the famous Swiss banking system, which was, and to a large extent still is, a magnet for all kinds of money, whether legal, shady, illegal, or downright criminal. That they have invested that money wisely, and developed their economy, industry, etc, does not change the origins of the money.

And yes, the country is beautiful, because of the Alps and the lakes. But you get that in Austria and Northern Italy as well.

[pinas]

That's Sweden.

Indeed.

[Ritella]

Indeed.

lol. thank god this thread was resurrected so that i could read this missed post.

[The Martrix]

That's Sweden.

I visited Sweden in the coldest winter for year. It was quite alpha, from what I can remember.

[Banana Pancakes]

Generally I like it.

[Ms. Kensington]

I know Switzerland somewhat, I've been there several times, but never lived or worked there.



They're not in the EU, and they only joined the United Nations in 2002.




It's not that they "don't produce anything". It's more like, there is indeed a feeling, as far as I know, that things are fine as they are and the best thing is to keep it working as it is.

<3 sometimes i really love INTj ENTj interaction

[Exodus]

See sig.

[normal]

From what I read about this interesting country, the stagnation is caused because they think there's no need to change things. They prefer to work developing theses things rather than changing completly. I think its part from their idiosyncrasy, they feel the best for being a country well-developed with more than a 700 years¿? (actually don't know the exactly years). When you feel you are working your political ideal for a 500 years, did you want to change it? I don't think so. Anyway, this is what I think.
BTW, I think Switzerland its a very E6 country.

[idolatrie]

From a very personal perspective, I always admired the Swiss political system, and pretty much adopted it as my 'utopian' model when I had to write a good society paper. Then when I visited, I completely fell in love with the place. I was only in Lucerne for a few days, and drove through some other parts, but it probably made the biggest impression on me out of all the European countries I went to. It was just so beautiful. I was walking around by myself one morning, and it just started snowing, and you could look across the lake to the mountains beyond, and it was so magical. I felt completely safe there (it was the only place I ventured out alone in Europe), the people were gorgeous, and well, I wouldn't be able to tell you anything wrong with the place in terms of actually being there.

And it's not like you walk around there and go 'oh, all they have is the cuckoo clock' (though Patek Phillipe? I'll take that, thanks). Sure, it's calmer and quieter than some other cities, but it is not like it has no life in it. We went out to celebrate a birthday while there, and were drinking all night long in a packed bar. And I mean, comparing it with Italy...I went to Europe expecting to love Italy. And I did. The cities are architectually beautiful, if a little scruffy (but that just added to it really) and the art there would make you weep. But I was stunned, completely and utterly captured instead by Switzerland. I can't even really explain why - I expected to like Italy best. Yet...well. Switzerland stole my heart.

(And I think the story about the Swiss Guards is incredible and powerful and beautiful too.)

[Nevero]

Switzerland is the only modern example of a Delta culture that comes to my mind. It's peaceful, stable and highly developed, both economically and socially. It's the birth place of some of the most important organizations of the entire world (like the red cross, for example). Yet the country seems to suffer from stagnation. Also, a lot of foreigners complain that the Swiss are conservative and xenophobic/elitist.

besides Switzerland are there any other regions in the world that can be described as Delta and are do they have the same kind of problems?

[xerx]

... in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

.

[lemontrees]

... in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

+ 1000 for beta

[xerx]

+ 1000 for beta

We need someone to fuck shit up.

[DaftPunk]

I live there and I think you're right that Switzerland has Gamma/Delta vibes even though I don't like the idea to assign a Quadra to a country. Because even though Switzerland is small it has lots of different regions with very different views.
I don't know if you know about the votes who are often taking place. There you can see how splitted(not in a bad way the regions still want to be together) the nation is. Historically Switzerland is a good example for a nation of will. That means the regions wanted to form a common state even though they were aware of how different they actually are. The souvereignty of the cantons (federalism) is very important and takes a lot of place in the constitution. That's also the reason we don't share the same problems with e. g. Belgium about seperation.

[FDG]

I live there and I think you're right that Switzerland has Gamma/Delta vibes even though I don't like the idea to assign a Quadra to a country. Because even though Switzerland is small it has lots of different regions with very different views.
I don't know if you know about the votes who are often taking place. There you can see how splitted(not in a bad way the regions still want to be together) the nation is. Historically Switzerland is a good example for a nation of will. That means the regions wanted to form a common state even though they were aware of how different they actually are. The souvereignty of the cantons (federalism) is very important and takes a lot of place in the constitution. That's also the reason we don't share the same problems with e. g. Belgium about seperation.

So which quadra is Ticino?

[DaftPunk]

So which quadra is Ticino?

urban areas: gamma

countryside: delta

[Persephone]

Depends where in Switzerland.
Geneva can be everything

[The Martrix]

Considerations I would consider when placing Switzerland in a Quadra are:

1) It's neutrality. The country hasn't been in at war since the Sonderbund War in 1847.
2) It's governance. The country partially embraced Direct Democracy.
3) It's multiculturalism. The country lies at the confluence of linguistic, architectural, culinary and musical traditions.

I see no real reason to suggest anything other than Delta.

EDIT: 200th post!

[The Martrix]

2) fuck yeah direct democracy. I think other countries don't have it cuz a bunch of power-hungry, greedy, manipulative shitass laywers, bureaucrats & politicians manipulated ppl into thinking they're necessary.

I couldn't agree more.

3) yup, it's pretty insane... I've read many swiss know as much as 3 or 4 languages.

They probably need to as Switzerland has 4 official languages: German, French, Italian and Romansh.

Re bolded: Meh, this topic is a good example of why one should be careful not to over-apply socionics; there are tons of non-socionics factors! For example, NPA theory's habitancy map has Switzerland as narcissistic-perfectionist type. Also Hofstede's cultural dimensions which may or may not correlate to quadras. And shame vs guilt culture. And Inglehart-Welzel map. & "Cultural Mandala" which interestingly uses greek elements (which Gulenko associated to quadras!!!) for 16 (!!) combinations total.

This is all great stuff. Thanks for sharing. I'm already familiar with shame and guilt cultures, but it's interesting to find out I live in an Introspective Habitancy.

[FDG]

I don't think Switerzland is really that multi-cultural the way say the US may be, I mean, you basically have three variations of the "alpine" culture living there (the french variation, the german variation and the italian variation) but they are fundamentally not EXTREMELY different from each other.

[The Martrix]

I don't think Switerzland is really that multi-cultural the way say the US may be, I mean, you basically have three variations of the "alpine" culture living there (the french variation, the german variation and the italian variation) but they are fundamentally not EXTREMELY different from each other.

I know what you mean, by US and also UK standard, Switzerland's culture seems almost homogeneous. In the case of my country (UK), I like the idea of having many cultures. It makes a society more diverse, enriched and interesting.