George W Bush

[xerx]

"Fatherland" is the ultimate macho word.

My job today is to expand everybody's vocabulary. Here is one, translate Pizdat from Russian to English!

???

http://translate.google.ca/?q=pizdat...B4%D0%B0%D1%82

[Absurd]

The ancient Romans and you are off, Saberstom. Russia is, has been and is going to remain a Motherland.

[Saberstorm]

In Latin class, Cicero always talked about the Fatherland.

[1981slater]

George Walker Bush, SLE I think
Bill Clinton, SLE
Barack Obama, SEE
George Herbert Bush, LIE
Ronald Reagan, EIE
Lisa Simpson, LII

[Absurd]

Slater - gay.

[mu4]

Fascinating video in the OP. I wonder if conservative & liberal mindsets are somehow altered by upbringing.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_ha...oral_mind.html

The video is pandery but I think there are some pretty clear differences in moral thinking between strong conservatives/progressives.

Conservatives around the world, from Muslim extremists to Tea-party separatists or even conservative communists, their worldview is colored by purity, loyalty and authority. Conversely their vehicle is also purity, loyalty and authority. If you look at Saberstorms verbalization it is highly characterized by a fear of authority but at the same time, there is the desire to impose his own authority(freedom) in various avenues of life. The rhetoric of conservative extremists have today adopted the rhetoric of Freedom, such as Freedom to practice sharia law or freedom to have Islamic theocracy, or Freedom to practice Chinese totalitarianism. The rhetoric of freedom is inevitably the rhetoric of power, Orwell understood double speak quite well and thus "Freedom is slavery". I also think moral thinking is highly susceptible to psychological projection. People that have a great deal of fear of authority can also display a lot of authoritative behavior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

The democratic secular multi-cultural societies that have arouse in modern society is basically morally repugnant to people who have purity, loyalty and authority as major moral focal points. The authorities are viewed as non-legitimate as they are not pure and loyalty to a multi-factional state is not really "loyalty". This conflict occurs everywhere, and especially so in the Middle East, Africa and South Asia. These are somewhat traditional societies that want all the material benefits that modern societies provides, by not engaging in debilitating sectarian violence. The solutions in the past have always been either total victory/genocide or Balkanization which eventually lead to further conflicts. Modern, pluristic society is another solution which arouse thru the European enlightenment, but it is a very diffucult path.

Once achieved it is still prone to fracture as it is occurring in the US as people pursue pure environments with like minded people.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Sort-C.../dp/0547237723

As far as Bush, Bush isn't a ideologue nor was he very consistent, he's essentially a moderate in mindset but in execution did not take a lot of lead in his actions. I think Bush displays a lot of esteem issues and trying to outdo his father in accomplishment, but of course he's no where near as competent a person as Bush Sr.

[vesstheastralsilky]

IEE ENFP-Fi

THE ACTOR per my current archetypes list

aka THE REPORTER or HUXLEY from various Socionics sources.

[Sol]

IEE ENFP-Fi
THE ACTOR per my current archetypes list

actor is closer to EIE, which is his type

[vesstheastralsilky]

actor is closer to EIE, which is his type

Yeah but I now go off what makes sense in my own observations and experience rather than just adhere to other's paradigms. If they already worked great, I wouldn't be asserting these exceptions. Trying to save others the grief of wasting time with broken data collections and make it easier and clearer, if possible, for the sake of progress and deeper understanding.

[Disturbed]

Bush was an ESI-Se. I had thought SEE-Fi or maybe even EIE, but he was an ESI-Se. And he was pretty intelligent and more open-minded than people give him credit for; he was more original in his word usage than Obama and he also probably had a higher IQ (remember, he got 650 on his math SAT and it's highly unlikely that Obama got anywhere near that high). Obama could also be quite close-minded, the taking in multiple viewpoints that he did didn't really change what he was going to do, it's almost like he looked for so many answers on impulse. Also, obama (ESI-Fi) was much more predictable, had much less wit, was slower to respond, and those are all signs of lower IQ.

Remember that even though the MSM blew it all out of proportion and would've had you believe Bush's IQ was 30 points or more lower than Gore's, there was actually only about a 9 point difference between Bush's IQ and Gore's IQ and that was all in the verbal realm and level of knowledge rather than analysis, visuo-motor and visuo-spatial abilities.

[Disturbed]

As mu4 pointed out, he wasn't an ideologue so I think he has to be Te-valuing quadra. A lot of people have said he is LSE-Si, but I don't see that, since he worked so well with Betas (Condi, Dick Cheney, both LSI-Ti IMO) and was more popular with conservative Betas than his more elitist, technical successor. Also, his religiosity and moralism and making decisions didn't resemble those of a logical type at all. He was interpersonally warmer and less robotic and interpersonally and intrapersonally focused than LSE tend to be. He was also pretty unpredictable and seemed to think himself wanting in other people making methods for him and giving him advice if it suited or activated his Ni-HA.

He seemed to favor the reinin dichotomies of Tactical, Result, Ethical (because he didn't really make decisions by thinking them through with logic, and because everything was interpersonal for him), Carefree, Democratic, Constructivist, and Negativist. He seemed Static rather than Dynamic (he was more rigid, didn't flip flop like say Mitt Romney did) He also seemed Ni valuing rather than Ne valuing. Te/Fi and not ILI valuing is obvious, especially because he didn't care about precision. He had stronger and more natural Fe than an LSE would. Also, his physical presence and voice is actually kind of strong which would suggest Se ego. He was a conservative in the way some Gamma SF-Se subtypes are (he saw himself as protector of the people of a nation and of traditional values and had that "too bad if they don't like it" attitude and non-seriousness that an ESI-Se usually has). Seemed constructivist, because Fjs tend to have less empathy and not doubt whether their own aggressive actions are ok compared to Tjs and he was looking for solutions more than sympathy.

He seemed rather fond of LSI-Ti, as long as they agreed with him which was another reason I think he was ESI-Se since he didn't want to be told things he didn't agree with. I like being told what I want to hear rather than the truth and admire people who can tell me what I want to hear (that's kind of why I don't get along with EIEs that well, despite them being ethical types, they generally don't tell me what I want to hear, especially the Fe subtype, they try to change my thoughts and behavior or force their visions rather than going by factual information, doing what they want and that really irritates me; the Ni subtype is better at supplying factual information and what's beneficial, but not as good as most T types except for LSI-Ti).

So I stand by my ESI-Se typing for him.

I enjoyed writing this.

[Disturbed]

V.I.'s as EIE. Had the typical EIE imperviousness and preferred gender norms.

I think Bill Clinton was also an EIE-Fe, but he could appreciate differences better.

EIE-Fe often tend to be viewed as dumb, when they're really not, and that's what kind of scary about them.

The Iraq War, impervious intrusiveness like that is something an EIE-Fe would do.

Was definitely Decisive>Judicial and Ej temperament.

I wish I could be as psychopathic and impervious to other peoples' wants and needs and rights and as shameless about it as EIE-Fe leaders are at alarming frequencies.

[qaz00]

xSE

[hellohellohello]

Ethical, Ip temperament > Ij. Sensory. SEI.