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Thread: Visual Identification in Typing

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Its okay, LSE men are a 'dime a dozen'. Just gotta keep rerolling the dice until one is mad enough to want to hold onto Maritsa. No need to reform a sloppy typing process that likely fails to classify LSEs properly or to consider that Socionics is not a love potion.
    This is on my list for best ever. (No offense to Maritsa; I <3 her and support her, I hope)

    Oh fuck, that's funny tho......

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    But it's true, most guys are LSE. Like at least 80 percent of them, I think.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

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    Ok, according to some (crappy) resources, about 11% of men are LSE (this is actually mbti info; I can't find any stats in socionics). So let's say that 1 out of those 11 is a decent match for Maritsa. 1 out of a hundred being potentials isn't too bad........you should be able to find one, eventually.

    I guess it just depends on what your standards are, Maritsa, as to how many of those 11% you will consider potential partners.

    Unfortunately, I think that your belief system and passion for socionics could limit your hit list.

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    Now now jet, no-one said any of those 11% of men would find Maritsa to be a suitable mate

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    I wouldn't mind seeing some more statistics on type distribution. I don't think intuitive types are rare, unique unicorns like the MBTI statistics or Maritsa would have you believe. Data on here seems to agree with that notion: http://www.socionics.us/philosophy/t...ribution.shtml

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    The only result that really seems statistically significant there is a slight tendency for men to be logical and women to be ethical. The sample sizes aren't all that big from the point of view of getting an accurate view of statistical distributions.
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    Default Essential features for visual identification

    A question for those of you who use visual identification in typing: which features do you find useful and essential for figuring out a type, and which visual tips are extraneous and tangential?

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    The aspects described here are usually spot-on and in time I've learned to guide my typing of people according to them as well (together with behavior and thought patterns):

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Identification
    http://www.socionika.com/visual_type_diagnosis.html
    http://www.socionics.us/theory.shtml
    (for the last one go check the 4 dichotomies under the section 'physiology')

    Then I also found Filatova's portraits to be well-chosen for VI - in the sense that some people I met had certain features or expressions that resembled hers.

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    For me, only dynamic observable facets of behaviour (posture, movement, facial-expression, eye-behaviour), can be used in VI. I don't subscribe to any correlation with body shape and facial structure. Even Filatova didn't believe it was useful.

    On Filatova's portraits:
    (Wikisocion)

    It should be noted that Ekaterina Filatova did not herself use visual identification ("V.I.") to diagnose the types of the people in her books. She simply began to notice similarities between people of the same type and tried to capture them through photos.

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    I do think you can glean information from static images, though it usually has to be through a decent number of images (at least 3, but more is preferable).

    Conversations, aesthetics and mannerisms are all important. Video or real life interaction in a group environment are vastly superior to stills.

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    Recommendations of materials for typing

    There are 2 kinds of information used for typing: 1 - behavior like actions and speech, 2 - nonverbal behavior.
    IRL observations and video give both kinds of typing information. First kind of behavior is analysed logically, while nonverbal behavior is analysed by intuitive impressions mostly. Nonverbal behavior is a half or more of information useful for typing. Most typers prefer to have both kinds of information about behavior as partial information reduces probability for correct typing. Some typers even will not do typing if there is no full information to which they got accustomed to.
    The videointerview has to contain your tale about yourself. If you have difficulties in what to tell about, you may tell: "What do I do better than others. What do others do better than me."

    - duration of the video is 10 min or more
    - resolution 480p or more
    - bottom view line is near a chest, camera is directed horizontaly (not from bellow or other side)
    - good light, no deep shadows on the face
    - do not wear glasses or headphones
    - the gap between taking of psychotropic med/substance and video recording should be >2 weeks
    - the atmosphere is comfortable and confident
    - you may speak on any language in the video, but in non-English case it's useful to add a questionnaire in English

    You may also answer questions of a questionnaire alike you'd answered them to other human. Process it until "Talk about a significant event from your life". This takes ~1 hour.

    Examples of how a video frame should look: 1, 2

    Links to your video and other materials place in the 1st message. It's good to write in the title of your typing thread about availability of the video (if you can't edit the theme's title, you may create new thread).

    It's doubtfully to identify correctly your type without nonverbal infromation as it gives much about your type. To type without videointerview is not serious. A questionnaire may be useful as additional material. Photos are useful only as addition, as they give much lesser nonverbal information than a video.

    You may try different typing tests, including MBT's ones as they are about same Jung's types and compatible with Socionics in dichotomies part.
    There is also IR test, which may be useful to check the type from intertype relations side.

    For novices not bad book is Filatova E. "Understanding the People Around You: An Introduction to Socionics" (2010). It's useful to read the original source of the typology - Jung C. "Psychological Types" (10th chapter, at least) to understand what is the core theory. Augustinavichiute's texts are also important, but much of it has too hypothetical and doubtful status. What is closer to Jung's core definitions of the typology, what is basics but not a secondary derivative - that deserves more of trust, having has lesser risk of a mistake. I recommend to do not use Reinin's traits, acceptive/productive functions idea. Also new hypotheses about Jung's type by authors besides Jung and Augustinavichiute should be avoided until those will get experimental proof.
    Should be understood and used: dichotomies, 8 functions, strong/weak functions, valued/nonvalued functions, complemetary functions and IR (intertype relations) theory.

    In common, you get several versions of your type or sometimes only part of your type. Then you should check these versions yourself, including by intertype relations (IR). Typers only help you.
    It's important to have theory fitting to reality good. But it's not obligatory to have 100% fitting to descriptions as they were made for average case, while many factors affect peoples' behavior and relations.
    It's important to know that Jung's typology practice is far from perfect now. Generally, typers match in types up to 30% only, when they did not know others versions beforehand. It's common when typers don't give detailed explanation how they've come to type version. There are no logically strict typing methods, no objectively proved methods. Typers use many speculations and subjectivism, when use intuition (especially for nonverbal information) they can't base clearly, - as a result arguments are not unambiguously and exhaustively, even if they'd try and wanted to do this.

    Types are not absolute. It's a general tendencies in mind and behavior, where some forms prevail in average. Also besides types there are other significant factors which influence on peoples perceptions and behavior. Jung's types are only one of important factors, useful to analyse and prognose friendly relations, some of strong and weak traits of people. Any human uses weak functions too, but lesser consciously and worse.
    Jung understood the types as psyche accentuations, where ideal psyche would have all functions developed good by social standards. The improvement in weak functions regions is a way of self development to become stronger, more effective, healthier and happier. Duals are not only better for deep friendship, may support in weak regions but also can be teachers in this. Deep love in a marriage with them, mutual unconditional acceptance and introjection of each other is one of ways to get the most from duality.
    Last edited by Sol; 03-04-2019 at 06:50 PM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Narc View Post
    I do think you can glean information from static images, though it usually has to be through a decent number of images (at least 3, but more is preferable).
    And don't forget the side view.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    LOL she was way too shy when I asked her for a photo for VIing.
    Nowadays I don't take shots of someone for posting somewhere without them knowing I will post the pics.
    Anyway she'll answer a 80 question questionnaire because she's very interested. I wouldn't. lol.

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    VI has already been proven with samples of identical twins. Identical twins have the same micro-expressions. To date, opponents of VI have not been able to disprove VI by showing examples of identical twins where the vibe is totally different. I put the challenge out there but nobody has been able to meet it. You will never find a set of identical twins where one vibes like henry kissinger and the other vibes like Jim Carrey. More than that, identical twins tend to know what the other is thinking and they can easily finish each other's thoughts/sentences. It goes beyond just a sibling bond.

    Not every person of the same type will be identical twins, of course. So it becomes a question of where to draw the line. That's where VI has to be tempered by common sense. The Intelligent Design Method of Typing is just that, VI + Common Sense. That's where reading up on these people is a good way to find out where one type ends and another begins. You can find a chain of VI proofs in the beta examples thread, where I build one example off previous examples. So very often, the same personality markers appear in people that VI alike. VI is also effective because it undercuts all those socially constructed differences/similarities between people, like race, gender, status, occupation. It also undercuts other factors such as differences in IQ.

    VI opponents point out that identical twins can often be very different from each other and identical twins often tout their differences. But the desire to individuate is very common in human nature. It may be more of a hang up for identical twins such that they can develop an aversion to their replica. So they find areas of differences, and intentionally cultivate areas of differences, from their twin as if to emphasize that they are not like each other. In other words, they attempt to exert conscious control over their personality in order to distinguish themselves from their twin. And some can be successful at it. But mother nature has the final word on it....the vibe doesn't lie, as vibe and micro-expressions speak more directly to the nature of your personality.

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    Check it out:

    https://www.pinterest.com/socionics/

    Each section contains a workable, easy to master VI template that you can use to type yourself and others with. Each section has its own notable physiological markers and micro-expressions like i spoke of in the previous post. More than that, the groupings work in terms of the cognition.

    One objection is that ‘well, if you are saying to supplement VI with common sense, doesn’t that mean VI is not sound?” No, not true. Common sense tells you this person is not a LSE even if you can't make a strong VI connection between them and that type. That doesn’t mean to give up on the VI. It just means your eye isn't yet trained enough to pick up on the VI connection. That the connection is more subtle than you are giving it credit for and that you have to be more cogent in looking at it. I have already done all that. That’s why I will say it now, and will likely say again, Socionics doesn’t work unless you break the types down in the way that I have. Of course, if you don’t believe me, go ahead and browse around other socionic schools of thought. Be my guest. See what else is out there.

    A second objection is that it can’t be this clearcut. It’s not. There are plenty of look-a-likes such that it’s not always clear-cut. I run into many ambiguous examples. The VI also changes ever so slightly with stacking that you really do need a trained eye. So there are a number of variations even within the same socionics type. Knowing what to look for to resolve those ambiguities is the difference between an expert socionics typer and one that is not. Again, I have already put the time in the trenches working these ambiguities out.

    A third objection is that people that VI the same type are not always a hundred percent alike. Of course, they are not always going to be a hundred percent alike. But that's where enneagram and stacking come into play, and where the list is particularly flexible. For example, Robert Redford and Bill Clinton are both IEE-Fi. But Clinton is a 3w2 and redford is a 6. Clinton is more ambitious, competitive and confident by nature/temperament than Redford is. If you don't have a firm grasp on enneagram, though, you may be duped into thinking they have a different socionics type. nevertheless, both Redford and Clinton have a similar cognition when it comes to using their NeFi to mirror, to adapt themselves to different roles, to change masks in order to suit the occasion, to engage in fluffy, pop pseudo-psycho analysis of others, etc. Redford channels that into acting and Clinton channels his cognition into politics.

    I stand by the pinterest list 100 percent as the best diagnostic typing tool out there. If you like typing celebrities, or other members, this makes typing time manageable. Why should you waste time out of your life researching celebrities before you can type them or confirm your typing of them. VI provides the ultimate shortcut and the pinterest list lays out the blue print. In the real world, when you meet somebody and you have the VI down pat, you can very quickly size up the person’s type. You won’t need to know their life story, you won’t need to ask them eighty to a hundred questions, and you don’t a year to chart down their cognition so that you can come here, start a ’type this person’ thread and lay out a 1000 details about the person only to get ten different answers.

    If you are not signed up for pinterest, an easy way to get around that is just to add on the socionics type to the link....as such:

    https://www.pinterest.com/socionics/ese-fi/
    Last edited by Kill4Me; 03-21-2016 at 01:31 PM.

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    If we can program a robot to recognize someone using biometric then it's safe to say VI is highly useful and affective
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    If we can program a robot to recognize someone using biometric then it's safe to say VI is highly useful and affective
    Correlation is not causation. This does not work like that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    VI has already been proven with samples of identical twins. Identical twins have the same micro-expressions. To date, opponents of VI have not been able to disprove VI by showing examples of identical twins where the vibe is totally different. I put the challenge out there but nobody has been able to meet it. You will never find a set of identical twins where one vibes like henry kissinger and the other vibes like Jim Carrey. More than that, identical twins tend to know what the other is thinking and they can easily finish each other's thoughts/sentences. It goes beyond just a sibling bond.

    Not every person of the same type will be identical twins, of course. So it becomes a question of where to draw the line. That's where VI has to be tempered by common sense. The Intelligent Design Method of Typing is just that, VI + Common Sense. That's where reading up on these people is a good way to find out where one type ends and another begins. You can find a chain of VI proofs in the beta examples thread, where I build one example off previous examples. So very often, the same personality markers appear in people that VI alike. VI is also effective because it undercuts all those socially constructed differences/similarities between people, like race, gender, status, occupation. It also undercuts other factors such as differences in IQ.

    VI opponents point out that identical twins can often be very different from each other and identical twins often tout their differences. But the desire to individuate is very common in human nature. It may be more of a hang up for identical twins such that they can develop an aversion to their replica. So they find areas of differences, and intentionally cultivate areas of differences, from their twin as if to emphasize that they are not like each other. In other words, they attempt to exert conscious control over their personality in order to distinguish themselves from their twin. And some can be successful at it. But mother nature has the final word on it....the vibe doesn't lie, as vibe and micro-expressions speak more directly to the nature of your personality.
    Interesting. What do you make of these two?






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    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    Correlation is not causation. This does not work like that...
    Depends on this: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...61#post1125561

    Try the test. Maybe we approach the would in different ways of thinking
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Depends on this: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...61#post1125561

    Try the test. Maybe we approach the would in different ways of thinking
    We do. Diagonally lol.

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    If VI passes twin test, then it isn't measuring anything to do with personality, because personality contains environmental factors. It would be testing one thing and one thing only: What you look like.

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    i've often seen duals VI'ing the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lim View Post
    i've often seen duals VI'ing the same.
    I think a lot of couples start to look alike after awhile. I just said this to my friend yesterday after seeing Melania and Donald side by side. It was really weird. lol

    This isn't what I saw yesterday but it shows something similar to what I observed in a video.



    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Default Please VI type :)

    Aunt Joan and Ma Summer 1975.jpg
    My cousin took this and I want to know what you think of the types of these two sisters. (I know one but not the other).
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Aunt Joan and Ma Summer 1975.jpg
    My cousin took this and I want to know what you think of the types of these two sisters. (I know one but not the other).
    They kind of look like twins. No clue on the type but the one on the right looks kind of annoyed. Maybe because of the way her mouth naturally rests.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Aunt Joan and Ma Summer 1975.jpg
    My cousin took this and I want to know what you think of the types of these two sisters. (I know one but not the other).
    left one seems either IEE or ESE right seems LSE
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    @Maritsa, hint, in case you want to try again: one on the left is Ixxj -- her comfort with the camera is because she is totally comfortable with my cousin who is taking the picture, and I suspect its just the three of them around. The right one: pragmatic, consistent, straightforward of personality. Faithfully sent cards all the holidays and birthdays. Kept a simple, tidy house, faithfully worked same job as secretary, attended same weekly church... Growing up she told me she did a lot of the chores at home (perhaps that's why she was extra-close to her mother, making sis on left feel left-out of that), while her sis always busy with activities, scouts, church camps, baton twirling, high school clubs and teams and good grades. I suspect she is not LSE because I do not see a whirlwind of accomplishments in her, just focused dependable faithfulness to her vocations.

    It will be interesting to hear what people who like to VI think these are.
    @Aylen, you are so right, I was telling my cousin that this sister (his Mom - and these sisters are 5 years apart) always has the expression in a pic: "hurry up and take pic and get it over with". The left is my mom, I will just throw that in there. The only good expression pic I have of my aunt on the right is at her son's wedding. Pretty dress that day, happy mom, and the all the pics that one day showed none of her typical annoyance with the camera, but just herself as I knew her. I have only the one aunt, and the one cousin, so my extended family was pretty small. Though with my three brothers and their kids, my son has a much much bigger extended family than I did.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    True

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    does VI actually work, or is it just voodoo bullshit? i'm inclined to believe it's legitimate but what if i look different in every picture i take?

    "It works on the principle that an inner process will always manifest itself through its outer boundaries - a sack with a brick will have a different shape than a sack with a football."

    this makes perfect sense to me.

    "Analogously, mental processes inside the human head will have their manifestation through the face, the eyes and the appearance of an individual. Since the major part of one's mental activity is carried out according to their Type, there is a significant correlation between the type and the look of a person. In other words, people of the same Type look similar."

    this as well, except the bold. i've been told i resemble many different people. any female with dark hair and dark eyes, really.

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    عالم نفسي thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by circles are neat View Post
    does VI actually work, or is it just voodoo bullshit? i'm inclined to believe it's legitimate but what if i look different in every picture i take?
    If you're going based off of facial expressions and dynamic mannerisms, then yes there is something to it. There are certain static physical features but they aren't very reliable to type by. The problem with pictures is you need ones that reflect someone's default expression -- not them making a face or something. It's very unreliable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by circles are neat View Post
    does VI actually work, or is it just voodoo bullshit? i'm inclined to believe it's legitimate but what if i look different in every picture i take?

    "It works on the principle that an inner process will always manifest itself through its outer boundaries - a sack with a brick will have a different shape than a sack with a football."

    this makes perfect sense to me.

    "Analogously, mental processes inside the human head will have their manifestation through the face, the eyes and the appearance of an individual. Since the major part of one's mental activity is carried out according to their Type, there is a significant correlation between the type and the look of a person. In other words, people of the same Type look similar."

    this as well, except the bold. i've been told i resemble many different people. any female with dark hair and dark eyes, really.
    Yes it does because I was given the tools to it and I use it
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Yes it does because I was given the tools to it and I use it
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Everyone, pls give Bled some likes. He craves the likes much like Suedehead craves the cock.
    7w6 3w4 9w8

  33. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by handjob View Post
    [IMg]
    Would you please communicate without using gif posts. I understand the gist of your message but really. You can move beyond it. And did you check out the portrait of types? anyway you should look into your college majors so that you won't go on useless roads and regretting ineffective and inefficient steps that you've taken later on
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Would you please communicate without using gif posts. I understand the gist of your message but really. You can move beyond it. And did you check out the portrait of types? anyway you should look into your college majors so that you won't go on useless roads and regretting ineffective and inefficient steps that you've taken later on
    kanye_wtf_o7dnzi.gif

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nehtaro View Post
    This

    "Analogously, mental processes inside the human head will have their manifestation through the face, the eyes and the appearance of an individual. Since the major part of one's mental activity is carried out according to their Type, there is a significant correlation between the type and the look of a person. In other words, people of the same Type look similar."

    Type and biological facial features are related
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    You missed my point. "WTF?" is a rhetorical question in response to the non sequitur of you advising another to look into their major.
    I believe the original "WTF?" poster was noting the absurdity of your logic "VI works because I use it." You might as well say "racism works because I use it."

    But about VI: biological facial features? Like bone structure, hair color, presence or absence of hair, etc.? Would you like some homeopathic remedies with that?

    If on the other hand you are saying that different mannerisms, expressions, body language, manner of dress and what-have-you, are characteristic of different types... well obviously! Not to the extent that there can be absolute concrete rules formed, but enough to assist in the typing process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nehtaro View Post
    You missed my point. "WTF?" is a rhetorical question in response to the non sequitur of you advising another to look into their major.
    I believe the original "WTF?" poster was noting the absurdity of your logic "VI works because I use it." You might as well say "racism works because I use it."
    Her point is that it works, but she is uniquely equipped to use it (other people being bad at it of course, explaining the large divergence in VI typings).

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    Recommended set of questions to answer?

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    So, I should start another thread for VI or ask an interview with someone to be properly visually typed?

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    Reposting from another thread:

    by K4M:

    VI plus common sense is the best method and the most objective for typing real life characters and learning about the actual cognition for each type (obviously it doesn't work with fictional examples). Human beings have an easy time believing in evolution, but don't believe that physical tells evolved over time that give human beings a way to size up key parts of people's personalities. Strange. The other methods just mainly rely on subjective assessments of behaviors. You can still get to the right typing through the longer method with enough time, knowledge and practice but you can reach the same typing in a much shorter time if you know the VI for each socionics type (plus subtype).
    As an example, I put on a VI clinic in the Elon Musk thread. This was VI:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...55#post1253655

    This was the longer way:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...16#post1258416

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