Anybody knows this guys type?
Viktor Gulenko
Anybody knows this guys type?
Last edited by silke; 10-09-2017 at 05:48 AM.
LII-Ne
He seems to be LII-Ti to me. Rational.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
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LII Normalizing
(He also self types LII. Not that i know russian but ive heard)
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
LII-Ne, social 5?
Direct comparison of LII rational (Viktor) and irrational (Ben) subtypes:
I would not associate productivity to subtypes. Content matters. His models are rather logic centered. It borrows things from everywhere, like spins but it is not really that wacky.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
LII-Ne 5w6 sp/so the social or 'warmside' subtype
he's not the Ti subtype. every time I translate his articles he gallops through the concepts and often doesn't bother to carefully explain what he means. packs a lot of information into single sentences, so holographic-panoramic cog style for certain.
ILE-Ti 1w9 sp/so
https://www.pinterest.com/socionics/ile-ti/
LII
Viktor Gulenko
@Viktor I didnt know u travelled the world?
???
long lost brother
theyre not similar lol
functionally LIE-Ni !!! The Entrepreneur type who is always curious about how to maneuver and influence people and situations for ones desired outcomes.
(This conflicts with SEIs because they don't like control through hidden agendas or too much outside influence. SEI is a free spirit.)
I'm not saying he isn't trying to describe himself in his LII descriptions either because obviously he self-typed that way and then rewrote many definitions and labels imo.
maxresdefault-4.jpg
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
From his VI I see more of a ILE open minded type. I;m curious if you could elborate on your idea here because I came across another intellectual who is similar to Gulenko and I have been curious where this LIE VS LII-ILE is headed as well.Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky
Well he spawns so much data that is very Te leading to me and it is very comprehensive which is Ni in how multifaceted it is. But I disagree with his labels. Ti Ne types ime with many tend to grasp complex concepts very quickly with their Ne and won't mince words and use lots of set theory-like logic Ti and compare their ideas with past concrete experiences Si supporting than pure theory and power of force assertiveness Se. I personally feel like real Ti leads to realistic understanding about things in ways Te leads ignore because the latter get set in their knowledge they have accepted as such and then play with it like in computer programs.
Some of Gulenko's data can be useful tho' if one knows how to swap labels e.g. Sol being LSE in actuality yet fitting Gulenko's LSI somewhat instead, or my fitting his SEE but I am SEI. (Introverts write/type more than talk so don't let all my posting through you off.)
What do you think?
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
Most of the data seems to be a kind of Ti exercise from how I interpret it. Lots of it is diagramed first principles sort of thing. Ti can be comprehensive, for example, socionics itself is a form of Ti.
True, I'm not all that familiar with his work besides some youtube videos and some literature and diagrams. Could you elaborate on what you mean by Ni in this case being mutli-faceted?which is Ni in how multifaceted it is.
Socionics, no matter how well researched and supported will only ever be an artform so disagreement is okay. Its philosophically okay for alphas to disagree with the current models, and also create new ones. Open-mindedness is a quality trait here.But I disagree with his labels.
Yes.
Ti Ne types ime with many tend to grasp complex concepts very quickly with their Ne
Maybe.and won't mince words
Sometimes. There is a intuitive fluidity sometimes as well. Se adds something unique here, not everything is cut and dry 1:1.and use lots of set theory-like logic Ti
What do you mean?and compare their ideas with past concrete experiences Si supporting than pure theory and power of force assertiveness Se.
Yeah. If it works why figure out more, is this what you mean?I personally feel like real To leads to realistic understanding about things in ways Te leads ignore because they get set in their knowledge they have accepted as such and then play with it like in computer programs.
For comparison here, Graham Hancock is a more pure ILE in my mind. Somewhat similar to Gulenko superficially.
Yeah sort of. What that can lead to is a lack of adjusting data and basic assumptions per logic and experiences wrt the whole like other types will do.
Ni is multifaceted in that it is like fluid incremental deductions and contemplation. To me a Te Ni task would be observing water running from a faucet and trying to derive principles of fluid dynamics in the raw. But Ne Ti is like .... How can I rearrange all this merchandise quickly in the store and make the display more marketable? Or, asking questions about how to design perfect innovations in a better more utopian society. So a goal is in mind and logic gets tactical for Ne and Ti. But Ni Te could keep on endlessly busy without necessarily needing a goal, solving tasks in a set procedure with repetition over time.
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
I thought it was the total opposite?
Vess..this might be a break through moment for you. A watershed.
No I used to try to believe the opposite but it didn't hold up with the 24 typings of people I have known extremely well I collected and other lateral equivocation studying celebrities and the like.
This is why I often say here that my understanding is swapped from his wrt quadras and also he doesn't know SFs very well it seems. He sometimes takes 2 types and splits them across 2 quadras as if opposed. I am very careful now when I see his writings.
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
Okay.
From what I currently see in this forum it seems like users have selftyped 50/50 per Quadra such that half who think they are Delta are actually beta and so on, depending on what data sources the person relies on most and then decides. We don't seem to have clear elation in each Quadra section as we should per theory but get closer to it when anyone can chat in the polygon of affection shoutbox.
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
I was talking about just the thing you said and some of it has Te elements in the spots you say are Ne+Ti and some Ti elements in place of where you said it's Ni+Te.
Te is solving problems as you say, and Ni might be most willing to look at phenomenon, like the pouring water, in order to enact the current goal, maybe to fix it, or design a product, whatver.
Still, at its heart, what you are saying should actually be flipped. What you are saying is not even classic socionics as per model A.
It is mbti ish I know
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
Alright.
I find it intriguing, you share a story about the Calendar just needing to be flipped over, because you had it back words. Flip it over and voila, now its the right year. weird : /
Sol called Gulenko a heretic. I think that is a bit extreme because typology is emergent study yet the truth is Gulenko flipped things. He strayed from the original path.
I also use astrology archetypes to augment functions because there is a history there (Si) which should be honored in type development models. Jung studied astrology even. He just renamed the mutable and fixed signs as functions. Introversion and extraversion is defined as above or below horizon. In this sense some distorted definitions have no legacy. They are swapped.
That calendar story was a good one heh.
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
/yeah except I'm not referencing gulenko what-so-ever. So, I'm not picking up on what you are saying here. Te and Ti are mixed in your conception.
Recently, someone discussed him with me telling me that he thinks G might be a Te-leading type. I acknowledge that I haven't thought about this very much and I arbitrarily typed him as LII due to his self-typing and his functional descriptions. Now I consider the possibility of LIE and also find it to be possible.
I don't really think his system is very logical consistent and he collects many data, make many observations. He does describe Ti in the manner of a leading function, but it's also true that his Ti description actually contain both Ti and Te. It fits almost all judgmental functions. I have read his Ti/Te descriptions very carefully the last time. So this time I read his Ni/Ne descriptions again. His descriptions of Ni and Ne are also not accurate. He claims that Ni is sourced from the outside and finds the global process while Ne is from the subconscious, finding intuitive guesses from the unconscious. His Ne description does seem to be a bit Ni-ish, or probably a bit vital-ish.
As a LII I don't find my Ne to be detachment from the external world. I am eager to explore more to understand more. It's true that intuition is not very conscious, it's just a perceiving function. But I don't find it to be as detached as G describes.
He attributes Ne to be from the unconscious, while he attributes Ni to be from the outside. It's very arbitrary and it's probably related to his own type.
Anyway, I think he doesn't understand Ni/Ne very well. So probably it's not enough to type him according to his descriptions. Now I actually think that it's possible for him to be LIE. Although LII is also possible as he described Fi in a Role-ish manner and he describe Ti in a Leading-ish manner.
I've always imagined the "detachment from the external world with strong internal concentration" to be whenever you space out and start thinking about something without immediate regard to what's around you. You go into some state where your vision fades into the background and your thoughts come to the fore. It doesn't mean you aren't open to the outside world or exploring various sources. So it seems like you're misunderstanding the scope of his claim to me.
To me, there is nothing in these quotes that contradicts Jung and it's more of a distillation for modern times with common reference language than a reinvention of anything. At least for Ne. For the "outside" part of Ni, I don't really agree with that or see where you could get that from Jung. To resolve this in general, I think that words like external and outside are thrown around in type/element descriptions too much and mean different things in different contexts, and it can be difficult to understand their exact meaning without further clarification.
I know most people type him as LII but I am definitely thinking ILx or LIE. He doesn't seem Te ignoring, and he's made this whole Model G into a full on business. He's tried to make his logic accesible in a concrete way, despite it bing systematic to a point.
Jung linked Ni with unconscious more. Although both element are.intuition so both highly related to unconscious.
But why does G claim that Ne is from unconscious and Ni is from outside? This is not what Jung said. It might imply that he has Ne in the vital ring.
Also, Ne sees the essence of objects and things. This is the most important feature of Ne. He ignores this point. What Jung emphasizes for Ne is that Ne represses the subject factors and intuits what's determined by the object. G actually misses this point and hints for the opposite.
Ip (SEI, IEI, IlI, SLI) relates to sensory associative plane of processing. It should get its information outside. As in Se relates to body controlling the environment, Ne will try to fill the blanks in shared mental plane. As Ne sees Ni it recognizes the incompleteness of the external and seeks. As Ni processes it tends to limit itself to a local area of a problem - it becomes bit specialized and narrows down things
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
ILE-Ne>IEE-Ne>LII-Ne
I'm fine with LII social five - he's not the only social 5 highly involved in typology by being the "rare expert in the community," and also offering typing service for money...
mb so/sx 5w4
C sub lol, that should be the most magnetic LII I would think
Interestingly, two experts I'm acquainted with also typed Gulenko ENTJ/LIE.
LII-Ne-C but I can understand LIE/ILE for him.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
Makes you think. Maybe @vesstheastralsilky was on to something. CT also types Ausra herself as ENTJ. It's almost as if all the types are flipped up, and mixed up because they are Te Base perspectives on "type" and function "stack" (which I don't actually think exists) rather than Ti Base perspectives on type (like Jung).
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