Differences between Beta and Delta NFs

[Chthonic Daydream]

Hello again, forum.
Title should be self-explanatory, I'm just a soul whose intentions are good and want to know the main things that set these 2 groups apart.

[Bertrand]

what sort of answer are you looking for? I foresee a lot of stereotypes

[Chthonic Daydream]

what sort of answer are you looking for? I foresee a lot of stereotypes

Nothing too speciffic, yet no stereotypes, prefferable. I'm 'floating' between these types and I would like to know more about everything: From how they envision the world around them and relationships, whether or not they like singing in the shower or in the loo...you catch the drift.

[Bertrand]

probably best for a logical type to answer this. I feel like when it comes to NFs its hard for one side to distinguish itself from the other without implicating ethical shortcomings of the other; even when they're trying to be fair and generous it starts to slip in through the cracks. or you get people that are mistyped that can talk favorably about the other side but its really because they're double agents


its not like its impossible to say nice things about the others, but it comes off as a backhanded compliment most the time or weirdly disingenuous, or just flat out inaccurate. bottom line is beta has beta quadral values and delta has delta. meaning beta is more heirarchical collectivist and delta is more decentralized individualist. but they both view the world in terms of logic+sensing which means an unavoidable degree of aristocratism--its just about the preferred arrangement. in other words, they tend to view the world as fundamentally arranged according to similar metrics, they just totally disagree as to how those metrics ought to spin out and go about being achieved. you see a lot of betas advocate for "delta" causes but it has the ring of making a church or political movement out of what was originally a more benign idea. the kingdom of heaven is the church (the movement) vs inside you, kind of thing.

both are concerned with people's well being, a lot of difference center around valued Ti v Fi in how they believe proper "order" should be structured. delta is more interested in preserving individual rights, whereas beta is more about codifying and preserving "what is right" in a singular crystalline structure. interestingly enough beta tends to act more cheeky socially as if they have an anarchistic streak, but its mostly the leeway they give themselves from within the bounds of the law. on a long enough timeline they tend toward authoritarian structures for the exact reason that they believe anything not specifically codified as wrong tends to be fair game. naturally over time this results in rather comprehensive and strict bodies of law. delta tends to believe in self restraint and more free flowing spirit of law. rather than nailing everything down with Ti they tend to preach Fi virtues of cultivating character and sincere love, and not the kind that forces itself to do things but the kind that sincerely desires to go above and beyond what is required, and is willing to do what is prohibited if its "the right thing"--in this sense they tend toward anarchy even though their societies tend to be very stable. this ultimately culminates in things being turned over to alpha quadra, because the time comes where delta is too stagnant, and the moral structures become so loose that it sets the stage for alpha to begin its freewheeling experimentation, after which beta has to come in and bring order etc etc

[at sirac son of sirac]

You're probably Beta NF, 'floating', especially IEI, is their type of thing. And some more things to know to feed your dreamings?

[Chthonic Daydream]

You're probably Beta NF, 'floating', especially IEI, is their type of thing. And some more things to know to feed your dreamings?

Probably. Been over-brooding for the past couple of weeks or so about it. (is that even a word?)

I live in an Alpha and Delta environment and I don't really feel at ease. I feel like the Alphas on here are too juvenile and Deltas seem too much like old grannies (Sorry Deltas and Alphas!)

[at sirac son of sirac]

Probably. Been over-brooding for the past couple of weeks or so about it. (is that even a word?)

I live in an Alpha and Delta environment and I don't really feel at ease. I feel like the Alphas on here are too juvenile and Deltas seem too much like old grannies (Sorry Deltas and Alphas!)

Haha, it may as well be a word - perhaps you invented it (Oxford dictionary editors themselves are quite modest about this. They write "On average, we add approximately 1,000 new entries to Oxford Dictionaries Online every year" ....https://www.quora.com/How-many-new-E...ary-every-year)

But, yeah, over-brooding fits the bill I think. IEIs like to spend a lot of time daydreaming and flights of fancy, imaginations and such, and the brooding aspect, that's your emotional part aka extraverted ethics .

It's all good though haha. Find yourself a nice partner (hey I don't know if you're single of course) ... who lets you dream and has some promises of supporting you, with some doing of it just now too, SLE and SEE are good for that.

[Muddy]

Delta NFs for the most part are usually bubbly do-gooders, while Beta NF are a lot more grounded, dark and mysterious. In person it's pretty easy to tell, though online it can be tad more difficult sometimes.

[Sol]

look my bloggers examples in the signature

[Chthonic Daydream]

Beta NFs like drama and gossip. They like to talk about their lives as if it's more interesting than it really is, and usually they will blame any personal issues they have on something they don't have any control over, for example the reason she's crazy is because of her parents, or because she took an online test that says she has a mental disorder, they tend do take on the victim role. They are also more open about talking about fucked up things, and won't scold you for being politically incorrect or immoral. For some reason literally all of them likes to joke about poop.

Delta NFs are usually hipsters, they eat granola, drink everything out of a jar and don't shave their armpits. They are all feminists and everything I do is evil. They like to dress weirdly to express themselves and collecting vinyls. They will react stronger if you make a dark joke or say something that is offensive

Christ, I actually had a good laugh over this. It's perfect. Can I use this for future refference? I shall credit you

[chrys]

Beta NFs like drama and gossip. They like to talk about their lives as if it's more interesting than it really is, and usually they will blame any personal issues they have on something they don't have any control over, for example the reason she's crazy is because of her parents, or because she took an online test that says she has a mental disorder, they tend do take on the victim role. They are also more open about talking about fucked up things, and won't scold you for being politically incorrect or immoral. For some reason literally all of them likes to joke about poop.

Delta NFs are usually hipsters, they eat granola, drink everything out of a jar and don't shave their armpits. They are all feminists and everything I do is evil. They like to dress weirdly to express themselves and collecting vinyls. They will react stronger if you make a dark joke or say something that is offensive

ew granola is bad for you... I eat sticks of cannabis infused butter

[Number 9 large]

Hello again, forum.
Title should be self-explanatory, I'm just a soul whose intentions are good and want to know the main things that set these 2 groups apart.

Complete opposite quadra.
Fe valuing vs Fi valuing.
Se valuing vs Si valuing
Ni valuing vs Ne valuing
And Ti valuing vs Te valuing

Delta NFs are childlike cuz of Ne in their ego, Beta NFs are victim cuz of Ni ego

Instead of looking at it like "NF", look at it like NeFi, and NiFe.

Beta NFs want someone who is to the point and sexually assertive, even aggressive

Delta NFs want someone who takes care of them

[Olimpia]

Avatar pic V.Is as valuing -> Delta NF.

Ever considered EII 4 before?

[Chthonic Daydream]

Avatar pic V.Is as valuing -> Delta NF.

Ever considered EII 4 before?

I have, but most of the people and skilled socionics geeks around me said i was a doofus for even thinking about EII. And i kind of have to agree, even though I'm an INFP in socionics, I could never wrap myself around the 'childish yet mature' aura that EIIs have.

As for 4, that's my enneagram for sure. I'm a sp/sx or sx/sp (still not quite sure) but 4w5 is almost a certainty. I have '4' in a speech bubble above my head wherever I'm going.

[at sirac son of sirac]

Avatar pic V.Is as valuing -> Delta NF.

Ever considered EII 4 before?

Looks too dreamy and fuzzy for imo - it requires imagination and 'behind the glass' Ni rather than Si.

[Olimpia]

Looks too dreamy and fuzzy for imo - it requires imagination and 'behind the glass' Ni rather than Si.

EIIs have 4D Demonstrative Ni, so.
They are gonna look kind of "soft".

[Chae]

Delta NFs are usually hipsters, they eat granola, drink everything out of a jar and don't shave their armpits. They are all feminists and everything I do is evil. They like to dress weirdly to express themselves and collecting vinyls. They will react stronger if you make a dark joke or say something that is offensive

SURPRISINGLY ACCURATE. Good job, actually - we are exposed, I am exposed. But grateful, m'kay

[Olimpia]

I have, but most of the people and skilled MBTI geeks around me said i was a doofus for even thinking about EII. And i kind of have to disdisdisdisdisagree, even though I'm an INFP in MBTI, I could never wrap myself around the 'childish yet mature' aura that EIIs have.

As for 4, that's my enneagram for sure. I'm a sp/sx or sx/sp (still not quite sure) but 4w5 is almost a certainty. I have '4' in a speech bubble above my head wherever I'm going.

I get the impression you could be EII-Fi 4.
Those EIIs are much less "childlike", because their Ne is not too emphasized, and Delta NFs can also be "pseudo caretakers", so...

I'd rule out Sx/Sp personally, at least for now. You seem to rather have secondary Sx.

Your style reminds me of @reverie's.

[at sirac son of sirac]

EIIs have 4D Demonstrative Ni, so.
They are gonna look kind of "soft".

I suppose, but i'd rather type with what's there rather than get bogged down by imagining what might not be there, then applying it as if it is. It represents if anything which makes more sense for an Ni lead type to use, rather than a confused EII to use unvalued functions instead.

Better to check all the evidence such as what she's said and what she likes, before looking create unknown(s), as then it just creates confusion and dialogue for other purposes rather than type.

[Chthonic Daydream]

I get the impression you could be EII-Fi 4.
Those EIIs are much less "childlike", because their Ne is not too emphasized, and Delta NFs can also be "pseudo caretakers", so...

I'd rule out Sx/Sp personally, at least for now. You seem to rather have secondary Sx.

Your style reminds me of @reverie's.

I was planning to do a VI video and just get over all these existential issues. But man, are the insecurities there. And they're in bulk, even. Everytime i tried to record, there just had to be one wrong thing about it all: lighting sucks, speech sucks, face sucks even harder.

The one thing that doesn't scream Fi about myself is that my humour can get offensive. And i'm not as 'anal' about my values. Hell, I don't even know what they are. I just know when the boundary is crossed.

[Olimpia]

I suppose, but i'd rather type with what's there rather than get bogged down by imagining what might not be there, then applying it as if it is. It represents if anything which makes more sense for an Ni lead type to use, rather than a confused EII to use unvalued functions instead.

Better to check all the evidence such as what she's said and what she likes, before looking create unknown(s), as then it just creates confusion and dialogue for other purposes rather than type.

I'm just a soul whose intentions are good

That's rather Delta NF () to say, for example.

[at sirac son of sirac]

That's rather Delta NF () to say, for example.

It's pretty Ni again, all that stuff about souls like that is dreamy imagination stuff. It's not an Fi statement for an EII, but an Ni statement for an IEI.

See the 'floating' stuff I quoted too, and her lols to Viktors post, it's a nice Fe warming response to the visitor on her thread, perfect for her dual SLE, but no reaction to the negative incorrect statements about the Delta NF part, Fe over Fi there too.

[Chthonic Daydream]

That's rather Delta NF () to say, for example.

Delta and a refference to a song by Regina Spektor ('Oh Marcello') aka the lady from my avi. I felt it was appropriate. I love making music refferences.



for future refference, i have a piece of meat and that translates to "I'm a guy" by the way

[Hope]

You should look into each type specifically. Each of those types (EIE, IEE, EII, IEI) are very different between each other.

If going for generals, Betas NF are Ni and Fe dom and seek for Ti and Se; while Deltas NF are Ne and Fi dom and seek for Si and Te.

Also you should look for Quadra Values (dictated by the functions I mentioned) and see where do you fit best.

Plus, making a distinction for yourself between Extroversion and Introversion and Rational (j)/ Irrational (p) should be easy knowing the meanings of those basic Jungian dichotomies.

[Olimpia]

i have a piece of meat and that translates to "I'm a guy" by the way

Yeah that sounds like Creative to me. ^^'
It's "random".

[squark]

Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood.

@Penny Dreadful: Unfortunately, you probably will be, in spades.

[Chthonic Daydream]

Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood.

@Penny Dreadful: Unfortunately, you probably will be, in spades.

Una mile, una mile, una mile, una mile!

But yes, probably haha. Are there things such as satisfied type 4s though? That's the true question

[Retsu77]

Delta NFs are crybabies and Beta NFs are bratty teenagers.

[Chthonic Daydream]

Delta NFs are crybabies and Beta NFs are bratty teenagers.

What about bratty crybabies or soft teenager then

[Retsu77]

What about bratty crybabies or soft teenager then

All crybabies are bratty but in a more childlike sort of manner, whereas teenagers are all rebellious shitheads.

[Chthonic Daydream]

All crybabies are bratty but in a more childlike sort of manner, whereas teenagers are all rebellious shitheads.

I think I want revolutions to start by themselves, so not sure where that would put me
But I'm raising the banner for sure

[Chthonic Daydream]

@Penny Dreadful Make a video, we're all very bored and we want something to talk about

Oh, I will, don't you worry. If my Se and Te would let me, that is. I've delayed making a video 3 times now, for about 2 weeks, Christ. Insecurities are eating me alive. Just like I said in a reply above to Olimpia, there was always something new that messed up the video.

[schwiftyrickty]

Hopefully it's appropriate to put this here. I didn't want to start a whole thread about essentially the same question.

I have an old friend who I've always assumed to be IEE like me, but we are very very different. It's hard to imagine him as a "Rational" type, but I'm starting to think I don't necessarily understand what that means in socionics so I'm opening myself up to the possibility that he might actually be EIE. I can't think of any EIEs that I know personally so I don't really have anyone to compare him to.

He is dramatic, I've seen him cry a bunch of times, but he also laughs loudly, smiles often and engages everyone. He is easily offended and paranoid. Quite messy and unorganized, probably even more than me (and I am bad). Obsessed with his looks but not particularly fashionable. Has interest in aliens, zombies and conspiracy theories. (I have about zero interest in these topics.) Some of the shit he says is pretty insane. Gullible. Sympathetic to other peoples' problems but also self centered and prefers all eyes and ears on him if possible. Loves and hates strongly. Rants a lot about things/especially people he hates. Not very self confident. Often puts himself down and compares himself to me and says he wishes he was as smart/capable and mature as me, which is flattering but laughable imo. He is quite impractical. I tried to teach him to drive stick a few years ago and he was really hard on himself and kept freaking out that he was messing up my car and eventually couldn't take the stress and gave up despite how patient and understanding I was with him.

He dropped out of highschool and was a terrible student. Me too though. But he has a surprisingly scientific mind.

The main thing I can think of about him that seems rational is that he is quite resistant to change.

Is this beta NF?

[at sirac son of sirac]

Hopefully it's appropriate to put this here. I didn't want to start a whole thread about essentially the same question.

I have an old friend who I've always assumed to be IEE like me, but we are very very different. It's hard to imagine him as a "Rational" type, but I'm starting to think I don't necessarily understand what that means in socionics so I'm opening myself up to the possibility that he might actually be EIE. I can't think of any EIEs that I know personally so I don't really have anyone to compare him to.

He is dramatic, I've seen him cry a bunch of times, but he also laughs loudly, smiles often and engages everyone. He is easily offended and paranoid. Quite messy and unorganized, probably even more than me (and I am bad). Obsessed with his looks but not particularly fashionable. Has interest in aliens, zombies and conspiracy theories. (I have about zero interest in these topics.) Some of the shit he says is pretty insane. Gullible. Sympathetic to other peoples' problems but also self centered and prefers all eyes and ears on him if possible. Loves and hates strongly. Rants a lot about things/especially people he hates. Not very self confident. Often puts himself down and compares himself to me and says he wishes he was as smart/capable and mature as me, which is flattering but laughable imo. He is quite impractical. I tried to teach him to drive stick a few years ago and he was really hard on himself and kept freaking out that he was messing up my car and eventually couldn't take the stress and gave up despite how patient and understanding I was with him.

He dropped out of highschool and was a terrible student. Me too though. But he has a surprisingly scientific mind.

The main thing I can think of about him that seems rational is that he is quite resistant to change.

Is this beta NF?

Hi schwiftyrickty,

I have no idea haha

But .. going by your description, are you sure he's not a logical type who just has poor control over his emotions? Sounds a bit like it from your description ... usually F types are able to manage themselves better in that sphere. Also some of his interests ... might be S and T related, or N and T related .. but really i'm clutching at straws, i'm just putting if out there in case you wanted to consider it.

[schwiftyrickty]

Hi schwiftyrickty,

I have no idea haha

But .. going by your description, are you sure he's not a logical type who just has poor control over his emotions? Sounds a bit like it from your description ... usually F types are able to manage themselves better in that sphere. Also some of his interests ... might be S and T related, or N and T related .. but really i'm clutching at straws, i'm just putting if out there in case you wanted to consider it.

Thanks for the input. He is a mystery. I should probably add that he has a family history of Manic Depression (though he hasn't been diagnosed himself) and also tends towards substance abuse. Just in case that might be obscuring things. He also seems to have gender identity issues. Just painting a picture. His behavior is very unusual for any man I've ever met. Or any person really. He's a character to be sure.

If he is some sort of logical type, it would have to be ILE. It makes sense to me that he is either Si suggestive or PoLR, he is definitely weak in that area but at the same time fixated on it. Thanks for suggesting the possibility. He is not a stable person in any way and that certainly could complicate things. Now that I think about it, he seems more Alpha than Delta, but I'm more unfamiliar with Beta. I know loads of SLEs (unfortunately) but that's about it. I could also maybe believe ESE, but he is way more interested in the paranormal and intangible than any ESE I've ever met.

[at sirac son of sirac]

^ attention seeking Fe HA maybe. Needs Si to be looked after. Could be ILE. Over time i'm sure the picture will paint itself more for you.

[schwiftyrickty]

^ attention seeking Fe HA maybe. Needs Si to be looked after. Could be ILE. Over time i'm sure the picture will paint itself more for you.

Well I'm certainly not going to be getting to know him any better since I was extremely close with him for about five years and he's pretty much dropped off the map in the last few. My only hope is to get to know more people of different types and cement my understanding of socionics in general. Even ten years from now when he's surely forgotten about me I will probably still be trying to nail down his type.

[Hope]

Beta NFs like drama and gossip. They like to talk about their lives as if it's more interesting than it really is, and usually they will blame any personal issues they have on something they don't have any control over, for example the reason she's crazy is because of her parents, or because she took an online test that says she has a mental disorder, they tend do take on the victim role. They are also more open about talking about fucked up things, and won't scold you for being politically incorrect or immoral. For some reason literally all of them likes to joke about poop.

Delta NFs are usually hipsters, they eat granola, drink everything out of a jar and don't shave their armpits. They are all feminists and everything I do is evil. They like to dress weirdly to express themselves and collecting vinyls. They will react stronger if you make a dark joke or say something that is offensive

I've never met any single feminist delta irl (not even NFs). Also, this stereotype seems to be another singularity of this forum solely.
What I've met however, is a lot of highly impressionable ppl (especially young ethical girls) and that's where the propaganda makes its impact as an increment of Ethical types being SJWs or else.

My mom was feminist when young, though. She's ESE. She did it pretty much because it was a trend on her youth (60s, 70s), sadly, this brainwashing philosophy had its repercussion in her marriage years after. The same has happened to a lot of ppl, I think.
The victim agenda of SJWs seem much more Fe than Fi imo, also the interest for pushing violently their ideas in the rest of population or making of their feelings a social (instead of individual) matter.

[Number 9 large]

I've never met any single feminist delta irl (not even NFs). Also, this stereotype seems to be another singularity of this forum solely.
My mom was feminist when young, though. She's ESE. The victim agenda of SJWs seem much more Fe than Fi imo, also the interest for pushing violently their ideas in the rest of population or making of their feelings a social (instead of individual) matter.

SJW is obviously fi. They are constantly shit stirring for what THEY think is right (subjective feeling), disregarding harmony.

[Hope]

SJW is obviously fi. They are constantly shit stirring for what THEY think is right (subjective feeling), disregarding harmony.

Morals or morality are not Fi.
Betas and Alphas have their own morals concerning to their quadra values.
Saying that Fi is morality by definition is wrong. The way ppl construct their morals is not just due introverted feels. There are a lot of factors why ppl think something is good or wrong.

Also, what I'm talking is the manifestation of SJWs ideals in society not the origin of their concernings. That kind of manifestations are not Introverted Feeling, its extroverted. I mean, they have a clear interest in pushing and pursing stuff in society as system (or turning things systematical).

Plus, don't decontextualize my comment, I'm saying that a lot of ethical types could fall into believing this stuff (is not exclusive nor typical of some deltas if so, as some in this forum want to believe just because of the individual and separated experiences with ppl in here).

Finally, trying to fit entirely a social movement into typology is pretty short sighted imo.