How to strengthen your Si

[Ananke]

Is there a "How to strengthen your Si" thread? I love this post a lot lol but I don't have the same difficulties being aware of my environment as much as some of y'all. But Si? fuuuucccckkkk

As Si-ignoring, with unconscious Si, Si is a realm I do not feel very consciously confident in, but I will muse a bit for the sake of explaining sensing functions better, since sensing - Si and Se - in my opinion - are quite badly understood in general, particularly Si. The descriptions aren't necessarily off, but people here talk a lot about effects or implicit traits of the functions ("volition" for Se and "body awareness" for Si) rather than describing the mechanics of sensing functions. By contrast, the intuitive functions are often described by mechanics (e.g. Ni = associating processes taking place in time), rather than implicit traits ("fantasizing" for Ni).

I don't know why this imbalance in understanding is there? Maybe the word "sensing" is making it hard for us to grasp the MENTAL component of Si and Se, or maybe the poor descriptions are caused by N-egos describing theory and not grasping S-functions, grabbing all of irrationality for the N-functions and leaving only obvious leftovers to the S-functions? My theory is that the thin understanding partly has to do with the fact that sensing functions are involved functions. Describing involved functions is like describing impacts from the pool you swim in, rather than happenings in the pool you watch. Fe, Fi, Se and Si are all involved functions and are "part of" the cognitive process, rather than watching/being detached from it (like T and N functions)

Example:
- Te watches ripples of the water caused by a fish fin flapping in the aquarium. It's rather easy to describe how you just watch the cause-effect of the waves building, distributing and being reflected.
- Fe can be seen as swimming around inside the aquarium and interacting and picking up on the fish fin flapping in a totally different (involved) way, Much harder to explain in words.
The same differences exists between Se/Si and Ne/Ni. On one hand, S-functions are - like Fe - experiencing reality from inside reality (unlike Ne and Ni). In addition they are irrational, and thus pull information from unconscious pools of associations (similar to Ne and Ni). Sensing functions are thus very hard to describe. Si is in addition introverted and dynamic, so it operates in a very subjective and very changeable space in this involved unconscious pool.

Detour: I think one trait of sensing vs intuition that is known, but a bit lacking in descriptions, is the effect of involvement and detachment (on S- and N-egos).
S-egos tend to be much more present and "inside" reality, and reality seems to be "a full experience" and have a wholeness to it to the S-ego, because of the S-egos involvement. Things are experienced "as they are" (if you are swimming in the water, you can't deny it if it's freezing). For N-egos, reality seems to be a lot less "whole", and rather consisting of more or less fragmented information that can take more or less space (than in reality) in the N-ego's mind, based on the focus the N-ego puts on it (what part of the pool it looks at). While S-egos have a very acute connection to reality around them, they also have a harder time escaping a bad situation as reality is felt as a integral part of the S-ego, and this is how S-egos may get stuck in a rut, I think. N-egos on their side - in a good situation - easily can feel a bit disconnected from it all, and may not operate as fluidly, but on the other hand this fragmentation will make it much easier for an N-ego to get out of a bad situation, since reality was never felt as "part of them" like for an S-ego.

I described Se here.

In my attempt to describe Si in the following, I am FULLY aware of my inability to see Si well, and I welcome Si-egos to correct me and add to my description. I would love to understand Si better, and I feel that Si deserves more attention than it has in socionics, and I think it's a much deeper function than descriptions generally show.

Like all irrational functions, Si pulls associations from the unconscious. Like Se it builds it's unconscious pool of associations based on situations observed before and emotions had before (N-functions build associations on thoughts had or concepts learned before). Unlike Se and much like Ni, Si watches the dynamic and subjective connections of these associations, not the directly observable traits like Se.

Examples to differentiate:
Ni-ego: Hears the sound of a window slamming, and is prone to fantasize about why this happened. From the fantasies there are built concepts that are stored in the unconscious pool for later usage in completely unrelated situations.
Se-ego: The same sound of a window slamming, may make a Se-ego turn his head an look at exactly what that sound means, and thus the Se-ego builds an unconscious pool of associations giving a better understanding of reality. The size of the window slammed, the force used, the facial expression of the guy slamming it, his weight and size, his motivation for slamming the window, his threat level, and what the sound such a state of mind and body will cause when such a window is slammed, etc. Later the Se-ego may know all these things just by hearing the window slamming.
Si-ego: The same sound of a window slamming, may or may not make the Si-ego look too, but instead of focusing on static informations like Se, Si focuses on the dynamic information of the situation. While Se sees an angry face, and interprets the threat level, motivation, age, weight, etc, Si rather senses the connection between himself and the angry person's life situation in a context of a past - now - future timeline - or life path (Si looks at the now-situation of the person seen in context of a timeline from birth to death, sensed through own experiences). These contexts and time lines are seen again and again in different people, picked up on through comparison with own state, and stored in the unconscious Si-pool, and over time the associations pulled out show more and more information about the faith of people (in a tangible way as opposed to Ni). Over time, the Si-ego starts sensing things like a person's family background, his environment while growing up, inner resilience, life condition today, stress level, people and situations influencing his state and how this all will form his life conditions in the future.

You can see some examples of this cognition in these Dumas quotes:

“There is neither happiness nor misery in the world; there is only the comparison of one state with another, nothing more. He who has felt the deepest grief is best able to experience supreme happiness. We must have felt what it is to die, Morrel, that we may appreciate the enjoyments of life.

"“Life is a storm, my young friend. You will bask in the sunlight one moment, be shattered on the rocks the next. What makes you a man is what you do when that storm comes.”

“Those born to wealth, and who have the means of gratifying every wish, know not what is the real happiness of life, just as those who have been tossed on the stormy waters of the ocean on a few frail planks can alone realize the blessings of fair weather.”

So, to do Si, observe the connections (dynamics) between your own inner (shifting) state(s) and people's actions and their background and their now-situation and the time line between all of these. To me, Si is felt as "copying" the person in front of me, to know his state, or hear somebody talk and sort of sense what will happen next based on his words and sanity/insanity, health/lack of health, stability of mind, etc. Look at what "destiny" a face or a body or a situation or a story talks of, filtered through your own "state" (state = your own sense (not intuition!) of a timeline based on the now situation). For example, what shadows can be sensed looming in the background (negative people, negative situations, negative experiences in the past) or what stars are shining on the horizon (positive people, positive situations, positive developments). Also what inner state is changing/molding them, holding them back in some areas, rushing them in others, what family values created this, where does it lead in the future for them, etc.?

Here are some real life quotes by Si-egos:

(SLI to a young man who's father died early):
- "I can see that you are seeking internally, and it's because you are without a father. You need to build a core for yourself, or you will be confused a lot in the future",
- "you should build a family as soon as you can, because even if you can fool around with women now, a time will come when you will inevitably need to build a family. You should not think that this will pass without a stable family"

(SEI to a friend)
- "do you remember back in the days when you saw that movie? It really changed you (your path in life), didn't it?"

(ESE to friend while drinking, breaks down and cries)
- "you will become a druggie, it is such a shame, i wish you would not become a druggie. please try and keep away from drugs" (the friend was young, and didn't do more than occasional drinking at the time, so this seemed very out of place and he laughed his ass off, and yet, he did actually become a druggie many years later)

Like Ni, Si looks at dynamic reality of faiths and timelines filtered through the ego. As seen by the examples, the Si faith is tied much more than Ni to tangible timelines and connections such as life - death, strain- ease of a life situation, being internally strong- weak, etc. A bit simplistic, Si looks more at the life path of a person (or situation), while Ni looks more at the psychological development of these.

Try to spot the Si awareness in this video (hint: The NOW-situation (nightmare) is related to the (body) awareness of a timeline from boyhood to death, and of how time is ticking relentlessly.)

[Words]

I dunno Ananke, but it will keep the Ti valuers entertained

[Enoch]

Great sequencing here, what I enjoy most apart from your prose, is your usage of the 'pools' !

[wacey]

In the window slamming exercise: I think the Si base ego just hears the slam in his or her ear. It has a violent effect on his ear, literally. This violence is carried over into his brain where the violent action leads to BOTH physical discomfort and the ensuing psychological discomfort of window slam = bad.

Socionics Si is linked with base sensate perceptions. Including sight, sound, taste, smell, touch, all the ways in which the individual organism, or person is interacting with the world. Because it is an involuted informational element, there is a degree of subjectivity. It is about the internal person's experience as it relates to the sensate organs of the body.

At its core, Si is about the body. Yet it manifests differently as it is paired with different informational elements.

So for Si/Fe, there is a competent of social "space creation" wherein the person's internal situation is augmented by the degree in which the person is relating to others. Good, warm relationships leading to greater internal homeostatic balance. In Si/Te there is a competent of structural "space creation". Changing the external world and therefore changing their physical rootedness within it to better suit their personal Si inclinations. ie: installing an overhead fan to keep the bedroom cooler at night; or purchasing the same foot wear for years because they are comfortable and it works.

[Words]

I don't think this represents what Si is about, but nonetheless I applaud Ananke for making the thread.

[Ananke]

In the window slamming exercise: I think the Si base ego just hears the slam in his or her ear. It has a violent effect on his ear, literally. This violence is carried over into his brain where the violent action leads to BOTH physical discomfort and the ensuing psychological discomfort of window slam = bad.

Yeah, I like your window example, it's a cleaner example than mine. It is how I think Si would react to the sound, yes, though, ALL people will reach that conclusion - "bad sound" - if they notice it, so that is rather sensory information (very simplistic Si) than how Si functions (as in, even Si PoLR will feel "bad" if sounds are bad). What happens next, is what separates Si from say Ni:
Si will notice their own body state ("bad"), but will unconsciously link that body state and nuances of that body state to other body states and to a sense of the dynamic "life path" of that situation. This is an unconscious and very fast process, that just happens, so the information will (to the Si ego) seem to be part of the inner state felt, and not be conscious the way I describe - it's more a "feel" inside the "bad state" than rational words, but if you look, the information is all there. Because of this involved quality, I don't think Si-egos are all that aware of all they know, thus why I focused on the parts of Si that seem more "magic" in my example - like how Si-egos also can sense other's internal states (and thus these people's current statistics on the timeline, including a sense of what formed this path), like in the case of the window slammer.

Compare it to how people sometimes say Se only "sees a ball". Se sees a lot more when it sees a ball, but it can be hard for even a Se-ego to grasp just HOW MUCH others just see "ball". Si is similar, it senses a lot more when it feels "bad window slamming sound" or watches a person's face or body position, but these sensations often go into a "feel" of the timeline/life path situation rather than into words.

Socionics Si is linked with base sensate perceptions. Including sight, sound, taste, smell, touch, all the ways in which the individual organism, or person is interacting with the world. Because it is an involuted informational element, there is a degree of subjectivity. It is about the internal person's experience as it relates to the sensate organs of the body.

At its core, Si is about the body.

.
As for Si being about the body - yes and no. Si does "pick up on" changing states in context of their life path as explained above through their own experience of their body. Smells, sight, sound, taste, etc, are definitely possible tools to ease the inner state of people (or trouble them) but Si is more about spotting that inner state, through recognition of and comparison of other inner states, than about making dinners or lighting candles. Those would be effects of Si, rather than Si at a mechanical level.

This is how Augusta described Si:

We view an object's internal state as the relationship between events that precondition one another. This element perceives information about how processes are reflected by one's internal state. This includes the sense of one's own condition and the sensations of people evoked by this interdependence. Interaction in space is nothing more than a reflection of one object in another. Objects reflect in other objects, evoking certain sensations in one another. Such an individual perceives external information in form of sensations evoked by ongoing events. For example, the sensation of pain is essentially the reflection within a person's mind of a relationship between his functioning body and a process occurring in some part of the body that impedes this functioning.

When this element of perception is in the leading position, the individual has the ability to change the qualities of the surrounding space and influence the sensations of people within it.

[lemontrees]

dunno how this fits in but i noticed recently that i absorb a lot of things as "ambient background processes." layers and layers of them overlayed.

for instance, i always let my door shut on its own when i walk into my apt, i never noticed it made a loud sound b/c my brain just absorbed that as "what happens when the door shuts." my roommate had to point it out to get me to close it lightly. the other day i had on... (dunno what it's called but that kitchen thing above the stove you turn on when cooking?) that was very loud (apparently) and I didn't realize, b/c the noise was soothing, my brain decided that was the baseline noise and only picked up on things that rose above it.

sometimes i get so absorbed in listening to the way different sounds interact with each other, or just "riding the waves" of those interactions that I don't realize that I should be doing something, like making a change. like it's really nice sometimes to ride a bus, it's even nicer if the air is a certain way, and if the road has certain bumps, and that interacts with... the background noise of people talking on the bus, and the way people are shuffling or moving close to you or not, etc etc... and when the bus arrives it's like "shit i have to stop experiencing this trance b/c i need to get off the bus."

so maybe to "strengthen" Si: you have to let yourself enter a holistic sensory trance. it's not so much about discrete objects. Si is only interested in tiny details b/c the balance of each changes the whole picture.

[Ananke]

dunno how this fits in but i noticed recently that i absorb a lot of things as "ambient background processes." layers and layers of them overlayed.

for instance, i always let my door shut on its own when i walk into my apt, i never noticed it made a loud sound b/c my brain just absorbed that as "what happens when the door shuts." my roommate had to point it out to get me to close it lightly. the other day i had on... (dunno what it's called but that kitchen thing above the stove you turn on when cooking?) that was very loud (apparently) and I didn't realize, b/c the noise was soothing, my brain decided that was the baseline noise and only picked up on things that rose above it.

sometimes i get so absorbed in listening to the way different sounds interact with each other, or just "riding the waves" of those interactions that I don't realize that I should be doing something, like making a change. like it's really nice sometimes to ride a bus, it's even nicer if the air is a certain way, and if the road has certain bumps, and that interacts with... the background noise of people talking on the bus, and the way people are shuffling or moving close to you or not, etc etc... and when the bus arrives it's like "shit i have to stop experiencing this trance b/c i need to get off the bus."

so maybe to "strengthen" Si: you have to let yourself enter a holistic sensory trance. it's not so much about discrete objects. Si is only interested in tiny details b/c the balance of each changes the whole picture.

Thanks lemontrees

I don't think it is possible to really "strengthen Si", but one can be more aware of inner states, for sure.

Btw, can you try and access the information that you get from these "soothing" states. I know IPs like to just zone out, and enjoy the states, but I also know these states carry information, as I see it in texts Si-egos write (my examples), or things they say, but it's unconscious/involved as explained, so it's hard to notice how the information comes. It sort of just emerges from the state itself. I almost broke myself backwards to notice these processes in Se, before describing it in the Se thread, and with Si I have a much harder time, as dynamic reality is insane to me, so I have relied on theory in general when trying to access it all.

Example from your text that shows this cognition is how you just "absorb" or "rise above" sounds, or even turn them into something soothing. I do the same, btw, so I recognize it. But how come this happens to people with strong Si only? Others seem to tense up, even without noticing the noise at times. There is recognition of how a "life path" of a situation or a person is influenced by inner states in that, causing the adjustment, or else it couldn't adjust. Do you get what I mean? This recognition is instant and "felt" in the situation, but something happens in the link between situation and unconscious recognition.

Even harder to access, would be to explain how Si understands bigger challenges, like major life changes.

I'd love it if some Si-base here could try and put it in words, this thing that happens between recognition and adjustment.

[Ananke]

Btw, can you try and access the information that you get from these "soothing" states. I know IPs like to just zone out, and enjoy the states, but I also know these states carry information, as I see it in texts Si-egos write (my examples), or things they say, but it's unconscious/involved as explained, so it's hard to notice how the information comes. It sort of just emerges from the state itself. I almost broke myself backwards to notice these processes in Se, before describing it in the Se thread, and with Si I have a much harder time, as dynamic reality is insane to me, so I have relied on theory in general when trying to access it all.

I scared her away

I'll try myself, then with my unconscious unvalued Si, and see if I'm getting any closer to a good example:

I was on the beach today and watched these quite large waves. I sort of zoned out and the waves sort of started being reflected on the inside. The sound and the rolling of the waves felt like they were washing through me, as if my "life" was waving with the waves, and I had a sense - not so much a thought - more a sense in the body of how everything is changeable and everything is going to go away. Things build, things are torn down. Things are at their height, things are crushed to the shore. There was also a hint of eternity in that feel, like how time passes through everything over and over again, and has done so from the dawn of times and will do so after I am gone. It's quite the soothing feel of belonging and having a place in history.

I would guess that my unconscious somehow links these subjective yet related to the situation timelines and the "feel" of the waves inside me carries such information a bit in the background, more as a "feel" than as a thought? Is this Si? (or just more Se?)

[Myst]

So, to do Si, observe the connections (dynamics) between your own inner (shifting) state(s) and people's actions and their background and their now-situation and the time line between all of these. To me, Si is felt as "copying" the person in front of me, to know his state, or hear somebody talk and sort of sense what will happen next based on his words and sanity/insanity, health/lack of health, stability of mind, etc. Look at what "destiny" a face or a body or a situation or a story talks of, filtered through your own "state" (state = your own sense (not intuition!) of a timeline based on the now situation). For example, what shadows can be sensed looming in the background (negative people, negative situations, negative experiences in the past) or what stars are shining on the horizon (positive people, positive situations, positive developments). Also what inner state is changing/molding them, holding them back in some areas, rushing them in others, what family values created this, where does it lead in the future for them, etc.?

What I don't understand here is why is Si being linked to looking at the future. I don't think this is compatible with standard socionics? And I've never heard of connecting this with Si outside socionics either. It's been linked to the past a lot but the future - nope.

I didn't understand the shadows and stars on the horizon part either, seemed a bit Ne-ish?

[Suz]

my sister is studying Feldenkrais to improve her body awareness... i interpret that as seeking to improve her weakness in Si?

[Ananke]

What I don't understand here is why is Si being linked to looking at the future.

The future is implicit in the sensation, I think, see the quotes for more perspective, also see the last example that may be Si. Otherwise I just hope I'll lure out some Si-egos to explain more. :-p

I don't think this is compatible with standard socionics? And I've never heard of connecting this with Si outside socionics either. It's been linked to the past a lot but the future - nope.

Yet Si-egos muse about the future, the path of people, a lot, but sure, often reflected though patterns from the past. I did -on purpose- go into experimental waters a bit, to make the Si-egos think further than descriptions, as I think the Si-descriptions are quite simplistic often, when Si-egos are not, though some descriptions surely touch upon what I talk of. I see forecasting as exemplified in the quotes, though. Very tangible, life path oriented forecasting.

I didn't understand the shadows and stars on the horizon part either, seemed a bit Ne-ish?

Just me being poetic. Ne perceives potential in people. As in, potensial for change. Si is much more destiny bound. It senses peoples path as is, based on the situation they are in/the Si-vibe they give off. It's different from Ne, and Ne has the power to break this "Si-destiny".

[Suz]

The future is implicit in the sensation, I think, see the quotes for more perspective, also see the last example that may be Si. Otherwise I just hope I'll lure out some Si-egos to explain more. :-p


Yet Si-egos muse about the future, the path of people, a lot, but sure, often reflected though patterns from the past. I did -on purpose- go into experimental waters a bit, to make the Si-egos think further than descriptions, as I think the Si-descriptions are quite simplistic often, when Si-egos are not, though some descriptions surely touch upon what I talk of. I see forecasting as exemplified in the quotes, though. Very tangible, life path oriented forecasting.


Just me being poetic. Ne perceives potential in people. As in, potensial for change. Si is much more destiny bound. It senses peoples path as is, based on the situation they are in/the Si-vibe they give off. It's different from Ne, and Ne has the power to break this "Si-destiny".

Actually, one thing i have noticed about myself (which i had wondered if it means intuition or Fi or Fe or something else) is that i have on a number of occasions quite accurately predicted future happenings (well in advance, in some cases) based on my observations of past or present behavior of individuals and various contexts involved. IDK if that's what you're getting at though for Si. I'm also pretty good at (and enjoy) recognizing talent and trying to nurture it in people -- i'd previously assigned this ability to Ne though.

[Ananke]

Actually, one thing i have noticed about myself (which i had wondered if it means intuition or Fi or Fe or something else) is that i have on a number of occasions quite accurately predicted future happenings (well in advance, in some cases) based on my observations of past or present behavior of individuals and various contexts involved. IDK if that's what you're getting at though for Si. I'm also pretty good at (and enjoy) recognizing talent and trying to nurture it in people -- i'd previously assigned this ability to Ne though.

Si is dynamic and subjective and senses changes (dynamic) in inner states compared with own states (introverted/subjective). When Si compares own inner changing states with other people's inner changing states, they get a pretty good picture of the person's inner state issues and strengths in a life path perspective. It is easy to see how Si can use this knowledge to nurture talent and make people thrive by making their external and internal surroundings favorable based on their personal needs (states and path). It's a lot about inner comfort, in a way.

Ne by comparison is static and objective(extraverted), and spots a person's mental or physical potential, not their state like Si. Is she smart? Then she could be a scientist. Is he strong? Then he can help lift something heavy.

Different sort of "potential" in other words.
- Si makes sure Ne keeps balanced and doesn't go beyond capacity (doesn't get stressed by jumping too far, takes life path strain/ease into account when seeking new experiences).
- Ne makes sure Si doesn't fix comfort in the wrong setting (Si tends to align with the (life) situation at hand, without trying to change it - see lemontrees' post)

[Suz]

One thing myst and i have discussed before in the chat box was about how each of us deals with physical discomfort, if we have no choice but to endure. Maybe kind of along the lines of what @lemontrees was describing, what i was telling myst was that in those situations my approach is try to "zen" the discomfort out until the pain-causing event is over (e.g. blood draw), or until i can take care of it (e.g. full bladder, tight muscles, etc). It helps a lot when i know what is coming (e.g. needle poking through skin) so i can brace myself, or how long the discomfort is expected to last (it's more torturous when duration is uncertain). So, i'm one of those people who HAS to closely observe my blood getting drawn; i get anxious when i look away, whereas some people are the opposite.

I forget how myst was saying she approaches situations like that, but it was a bit different. @Myst, can u remind?

I try to be conscientious about doors slamming, just because i am cautious about disturbing people and i dont like loud noises myself, but i do remember one individual calling me out on chewing a salad too loudly on one occasion. As lemontrees described for her scenario, i was totally oblivious to the disruption my chewing might have been causing and thought it just a normal expected consequence of chewing something crunchy .

p.s. i really dont know if any of this has anything to do with Si though... still trying to learn... My current self-typing was not made as a consequence of me recognizing Si-dom in myself, but rather by a process of elimination of sorts. Though i am slowly recognizing what exactly Si strength involves, and i can't say i dont resonate.

[Myst]

The future is implicit in the sensation, I think, see the quotes for more perspective, also see the last example that may be Si. Otherwise I just hope I'll lure out some Si-egos to explain more. :-p

I never heard about this idea before.

Yet Si-egos muse about the future, the path of people, a lot, but sure, often reflected though patterns from the past. I did -on purpose- go into experimental waters a bit, to make the Si-egos think further than descriptions, as I think the Si-descriptions are quite simplistic often, when Si-egos are not, though some descriptions surely touch upon what I talk of. I see forecasting as exemplified in the quotes, though. Very tangible, life path oriented forecasting.

Which descriptions?

One thing myst and i have discussed before in the chat box was about how each of us deals with physical discomfort, if we have no choice but to endure. Maybe kind of along the lines of what @lemontrees was describing, what i was telling myst was that in those situations my approach is try to "zen" the discomfort out until the pain-causing event is over (e.g. blood draw), or until i can take care of it (e.g. full bladder, tight muscles, etc). It helps a lot when i know what is coming (e.g. needle poking through skin) so i can brace myself, or how long the discomfort is expected to last (it's more torturous when duration is uncertain). So, i'm one of those people who HAS to closely observe my blood getting drawn; i get anxious when i look away, whereas some people are the opposite.

I forget how myst was saying she approaches situations like that, but it was a bit different. @Myst, can u remind?

I just take the crap as is? I do become insensitive to most kinds of discomfort fast though without any conscious effort directed towards that. My attention will also go somewhere else pretty soon, to my thoughts or to environment outside.

I also consciously just go through crap, though (until I desensitize or attention goes elsewhere). I feel in control no problem :shrug

With real big painful shit, my attention may not go elsewhere, it stays with me continously defying the crap, keeping control.

All this is assuming that a task isn't taking my attention because if it's a task I'm doing that involves discomfort/pain, I'll be more focused on the task naturally instead.

Overall I don't make a big deal out of the whole topic. E.g. I've just been to the dentist, I don't get why so many people freak out about it.

Regarding the needle example, it doesnt really matter to me if I look or not. Seems to be the same either way.

Btw what was it about tight muscles?

p.s. i really dont know if any of this has anything to do with Si though... still trying to learn... My current self-typing was not made as a consequence of me recognizing Si-dom in myself, but rather by a process of elimination of sorts. Though i am slowly recognizing what exactly Si strength involves, and i can't say i dont resonate.

Process of elimination instead of actually recognizing your ego functions in yourself is something that I don't trust too much - not questioning your self-typing tho'

[Suz]

I just take the crap as is? I do become insensitive to most kinds of discomfort fast though without any conscious effort directed towards that. My attention will also go somewhere else pretty soon, to my thoughts or to environment outside.

I also consciously just go through crap, though (until I desensitize or attention goes elsewhere). I feel in control no problem :shrug

With real big painful shit, my attention may not go elsewhere, it stays with me continously defying the crap, keeping control.

All this is assuming that a task isn't taking my attention because if it's a task I'm doing that involves discomfort/pain, I'll be more focused on the task naturally instead.

Overall I don't make a big deal out of the whole topic. E.g. I've just been to the dentist, I don't get why so many people freak out about it.

Regarding the needle example, it doesnt really matter to me if I look or not. Seems to be the same either way.

Right, thanks myst, i remember now!
I dont freak out about dentists either fwiw, because i know what to expect (Needle poke in gums at worst) and i brace myself and try to zen it out best i can as its happening.

Btw what was it about tight muscles?

Oh i mean like, stretching or foam-rolling a tight muscle.

Process of elimination instead of actually recognizing your ego functions in yourself is something that I don't trust too much - not questioning your self-typing tho'

when i said that it was kind of an oversimplification and perhaps the wrong word to use... it wasn't by pure process of elimination, but what i meant to say is that recognizing Si in myself isn't what led me to my typing, i kind of arrived to it indirectly. I just think Si might just feel so natural to me and, unlike other IEs, it's hard to compare and contrast strength with it among people, such that it's just maybe what "normal" is to me. I'm not 100% confident on my self typing either fwiw.

[Myst]

Right, thanks myst, i remember now!

Np

Oh i mean like, stretching or foam-rolling a tight muscle.

Lol see that's an example of a difference between us, I don't need to "zen" that sort of thing or make much of a deal out of it - this is why I asked you about it to see if it was going to be a good example

when i said that it was kind of an oversimplification and perhaps the wrong word to use... it wasn't by pure process of elimination, but what i meant to say is that recognizing Si in myself isn't what led me to my typing, i kind of arrived to it indirectly. I just think Si might just feel so natural to me and, unlike other IEs, it's hard to compare and contrast strength with it among people, such that it's just maybe what "normal" is to me. I'm not 100% confident on my self typing either fwiw.

I don't have a problem with seeing Ti in this way for myself. I can compare it against others. Not that this means anything in your case

[Myst]

What you noticed could be related to Gulenko's description of the psychological tendency towards suggestibility of dialectical-algorithmic thinkers. I tend toward a similar entrainment via certain types of music, leaving a fan on while I sleep and other similar trance inducing sounds.

The other version is slow suggestion, primarily based on entrainment through rhythmic vocalization and/or sound, multiple repetitions of the same phrase with variation. Variations in this case are particularly significant, working akin to the chorus in a song. Gradually a trance state is reached—external relaxation with internal concentration. The greater the monotony, the sooner a deep trance is reached. Hence why some people rapidly settle down and fall asleep under a monotone 'bubnezh' TV.

That trance stuff is very interesting. It's not typical of me -not being a D-A thinker either, sure- but I experienced it in certain sports before where there was enough monotony and the right level of intensity at the same time. I have to get lucky for it though...

[Myst]

Same, regarding sports but I was never really able to replicate the experience of being in the zone well or often enough. There were a few times during high school basketball that I went a few games dominating the play, like I think I had 20 points, 10 rebounds and five assists in two short 8:00 minute quarters in one game and hit the game winning three pointer at the end. Quite an experience. Another time, separate from sports I was leading a crew managing a job where we had to feed three thousand people in 2 hours and it was like I was floating in a dream knowing exactly what to do as if my movements had already happened.

Ah, the flow experience is not simply this kind of rare trance to me but that stuff is also very nice for sure!

[Suz]

leaving a fan on while I sleep

I do this too!!