Intertype Dilemma

[Amber]

If you were Ni ego and you had to choose between tough, ambitious&seemingly balanced LSI and loyal, smart&rich LIE ...what would you do? This is really-really serious.
Both are hot enough, LSI keeps more distance and tends to play more games as far as I can tell. LIE is "the real deal", although more available and mmm more submissive kind of. They're close in terms of age, which means quite mature, they know what they want in life and stuff. I'm slightly more drawn to LSI cause of some impression of reserve, but I know for sure LIE is more reliable and love-capable. So. Here it goes. Socionics says I should psychologically value LSI more probably... which on a rational level I don't.

[Whoobie77]

duality or bust bra

[ashlesha]

Get some of that entj action and report back

[woofwoofl]

LIE all the way

[Iris]

LSI, Duh. But seriously, which one appears to share your values? Because even if you are with your dual, or some other favorable relationship, if you have opposing beliefs about important subjects, then you may have trouble getting along. Even if you have trouble communicating with someone or disagree about the methods to use in achieving goals, if you desire the same end result, that really feels good. It is good to know that someone has your back.

[Aylen]

The one you feel the most chemistry with, makes your heart go, boom, boom, boom...the one you think about all the time... even in the presence of the other. That would be my choice.

Also I don't believe we choose to fall in love...love chooses us. Even if someone is "love capable" doesn't mean they will fall in love.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

if you are ili and the guy lsi then he is your benefactor which is an asymmetrical relatioship and it may play out like that at some point.but he gets a victim and you get an aggresor so it can be sweet. i think you can start from LSI since you are attracted to him more. probably neither one is long-term material for you (seeing you talk about both of them in a detached way), so you can take into account this as well. maybe you will be on the manipulative side if you choose LIE? (but it will be okish you are almost menopausal and desperate to have kids, i guess)

[bolong]

It would depend on my second function. If it's Fe then obviously LSI. If it's Te a little trickier.

But a good rule of thumb is to go for the sensor if you're the intuitive. I think someone on this forum said before, sex between two intuitives is best avoided.

[Narc]

Which one do you like more? Date that one.

[Amber]

if you are ili and the guy lsi then he is your benefactor which is an asymmetrical relatioship and it may play out like that at some point.but he gets a victim and you get an aggresor so it can be sweet. i think you can start from LSI since you are attracted to him more. probably neither one is long-term material for you (seeing you talk about both of them in a detouched way), so you can take into account this as well. maybe you will be on the manipulative side if you choose LIE? (but it will be okish you are almost menopausal and desperate to have kids, i guess)

Unfortunately I'm not. I'm 32 and I'm not very mono by nature .... but they seem to be. And well, they're about 10 years older than me. But you're right, I'm not overly attached to either of them and I kind of know I like the Aggressor-Victim dynamics. I've already been involved with Aggressors and it's more cool in a certain dimension of the relationship.

[Amber]

You're fucking dumb. Just date whoever you like more. Don't see the point of analyzing it like this.

wow, you're my ideal of intelligence. Why are you analyzing my post huh? I actually just wanna boast I'm dating two cool guys at once, but you're too much of a brick to get it.

[IBTL]

But a good rule of thumb is to go for the sensor if you're the intuitive. I think someone on this forum said before, sex between two intuitives is best avoided.

Nah, and I think that was bad advice. Sensor + Intuitive could just as easily throw someone into a Super-ego, Supervision, Benefit, or Conflict Relationship. Does messy divorce between Conflicting parents sound familiar to anyone else?


Victim + Victim could eventually offer excitement, but it would need predictability.

"Victim: Victims tend to perceive other Victims as puzzling and inconstant, as if they were playing games or "push-pull" behavior, but also as exciting partners if a stage of "certainty" is reached."
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...otic-Attitudes

[Aylen]

Uh-oh...

[bolong]

Does messy divorce between Conflicting parents sound familiar to anyone else?

Yikes. I have super-ego parents, LSE and EIE, didn't get divorced for the cultural taboo and so took out all their shit on me. So yeah, a random intuitive-sensor pairing across the whole socion is not good advice.

But to narrow down choices it's helpful.

[Amber]

lol @ boasting about your IRL goodies on a forum

I'm just gonna write "cheese". You'll surely either LOL, or come crawling to comment on how useless or whatever it is. Get a life.

[blackburry]

I'm just gonna write "cheese". You'll surely either LOL, or come crawling to comment on how useless or whatever it is. Get a life.

Gurl, you know he just jelly that you have such a kul lyfe that you are postin bout it on an internet website about socionics braggin bout dem bois. duh. you famouz.

[Amber]

Gurl, you know he just jelly that you have such a kul lyfe that you are postin bout it on an internet website about socionics braggin bout dem bois. duh. you famouz.

and you smart, gurl. as usual.

[Amber]

LSI, Duh. But seriously, which one appears to share your values? Because even if you are with your dual, or some other favorable relationship, if you have opposing beliefs about important subjects, then you may have trouble getting along. Even if you have trouble communicating with someone or disagree about the methods to use in achieving goals, if you desire the same end result, that really feels good. It is good to know that someone has your back.

I get the sense that the LSI shares more of my values on a deeper level, in the sense that we like similar things (places, hobbies etc.). Even photos of random stuff he took and posted on this page look 'familiar' somehow to me, it's like I like what he likes and I'm pleasantly surprised that he likes it. We resonate more. But with LIE it's more like common goals and the relationship / interaction is much more clear. I hardly wonder what he means by something or what games he's playing, what he's trying to get from me or steer me towards. If I have a goal and it's not about burning houses, the LIE immediately finds the right methods to get there. The LSI is harder to read in this sense. I have the impression he goes by a different rhythm? Two steps further, two steps back or something. Yuk.

[Slacker]

I would not put more trust into any classification system than I'd put into my own feelings. Go with what feels right to you. Socionics is prone to a million errors. Don't base your life on something like this.

[Iris]

@AshSun I don't mind a person being a little hard to read if you can follow it up with good communication. A little mystery keeps things interesting. But Beware: When you can't even communicate simple information without causing confusion, that is really frustrating. I have that going on all of the time and it really gets old. Simple things like, "I thought you said X about where you want to store that bin. No, I said Y. But you said blah blah blah.... No, I said Y because of blah blah blah" Every little tiny thing needs to be excruciatingly carefully communicated to avoid miscommunication and that gets really old. Is it static vs dynamic, or process/result or P vs J? I would love to know.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Well objectively speaking "Loyal, smart & rich" sound like over-all better qualities in a person than "Tough, ambitious, and seemingly balanced." Whoa! I'm a boring dude, but I stay alive cuz I err on the side of caution.

Being tough in a relationship is weird. It's about sharing your heart and trusting somebody, allowing to feel vulnerable with them in private. You have to be 'tough' with everybody that isn't in your intimate circle, a partner should ideally be the one person you don't have to be 'tough' around. How the hell could you ever do that with a 'tough' person unless it was some kinky bdsm thing?

[IBTL]

Yikes. I have super-ego parents, LSE and EIE, didn't get divorced for the cultural taboo and so took out all their shit on me. So yeah, a random intuitive-sensor pairing across the whole socion is not good advice.

But to narrow down choices it's helpful.

You're right.

I've decided that both Super-ego parents need to be psychologically stable, and that the right combination needs to be at play in order for the relationship to manage itself. Specifically, the mother needs to be correctly placed within the Super-ego relationship. For example, an SEI mother and an ILI father would probably be fine if both partners are mentally stable. I'd be worried about an ILI mother and an SEI father, though, regardless of mental stability, because SEIs are typically better with children. In the right pairing, the ILI may value and idealize the SEI's ability to be a "caretaker".

The primary caretaker within the family needs to be well-suited for the parental role so that a Super-ego relationship can work properly.

[Amber]

@AshSun I don't mind a person being a little hard to read if you can follow it up with good communication. A little mystery keeps things interesting. But Beware: When you can't even communicate simple information without causing confusion, that is really frustrating. I have that going on all of the time and it really gets old. Simple things like, "I thought you said X about where you want to store that bin. No, I said Y. But you said blah blah blah.... No, I said Y because of blah blah blah" Every little tiny thing needs to be excruciatingly carefully communicated to avoid miscommunication and that gets really old. Is it static vs dynamic, or process/result or P vs J? I would love to know.

It's not a verbal, noisy kind of confusion, because, if I can't make sense of what LSI does, I usually take some time away from him in my cage and give him a break to chill and maybe rethink stuff. I honestly feel I don't have enough insight into his "inner workings". He's not stupid, you can talk about interesting things with him, very liberal in his beliefs and tendencies (he says he loves other cultures, travelling, immersing in them and learning about them ...which I pictured to be part of some Fe-seeking). But sometimes I have no idea what he wants. Maybe he needs a no-nonsense EJ to kick him in the right direction..? I don't know. I have been close to cutting off communication totally because of some forms of reserve I couldn't read .... mistrust? precaution? wants to avoid boredom? wants me to show more interest, warmth? what would his dual do?! No idea. I guess his dual would be very proactive and either lavishing him with affection, or getting into anger outburst to get him going ? You could know that better. He's prolly a hardcore rational, I think he's Ti - LSI, judging by his rather rigid appearance and his interests in stuff like strategy, design, marketing ... rather than super-physical or power-oriented stuff. So well, I 'm very keen on seeing where stuff is going or if it's stagnating, but maybe I don't act as a "complementary hardcore rational" would.

[bolong]

But Beware: When you can't even communicate simple information without causing confusion, that is really frustrating. I have that going on all of the time and it really gets old. Simple things like, "I thought you said X about where you want to store that bin. No, I said Y. But you said blah blah blah.... No, I said Y because of blah blah blah" Every little tiny thing needs to be excruciatingly carefully communicated to avoid miscommunication and that gets really old. Is it static vs dynamic, or process/result or P vs J? I would love to know.

Ugh. That was well put, even if it seems obvious and simple. I couldn't even put into those same words the feeling I have after interacting with this LSE girl that I've had to work with, that's how frustrating it gets. I like her quite a lot, too. But that flow of information, it's so fucked up. There's actually no flow at all, it's more like painstaking drips.

I really think it's just your conflictor that it's this bad with. The P vs J differences can be glaring at times but not as bad. Static/dynamic, not really. Process/result, barely notice the difference. My LSI bf and I are on the opposite for most of these dichotomies, but maybe being in the same quadra smooths over them so that I can't even tell.

Are you surrounded by SLIs, or something??

[Iris]

I guess his dual would be very proactive and either lavishing him with affection, or getting into anger outburst to get him going ? You could know that better.

Ha, I am not that nice. But I am very direct, even forceful if I feel strongly. And I think LSIs respect that and it does have a mobilizing effect. And they flat out don't care about some things and won't apply their energy there if they don't think it matters.

[bolong]

You're right.

I've decided that both Super-ego parents need to be psychologically stable, and that the right combination needs to be at play in order for the relationship to manage itself. Specifically, the mother needs to be correctly placed within the Super-ego relationship. For example, an SEI mother and an ILI father would probably be fine if both partners are mentally stable. I'd be worried about an ILI mother and an SEI father, though, regardless of mental stability, because SEIs are typically better with children. In the right pairing, the ILI may value and idealize the SEI's ability to be a "caretaker".

The primary caretaker within the family needs to be well-suited for the parental role so that a Super-ego relationship can work properly.

Interesting. I agree. Don't think my parents were stable at all, plus father was EIE and mother was LSE. She is NOT suited to bringing up children. EIE males also have tons of issues if you ask me, like they can't really reconcile with being a male and an NF, so they overcompensate all over the place. Just look at this forum for striking examples of Se-HA males who don't think they are EIE.

[Amber]

Ha, I am not that nice. But I am very direct, even forceful if I feel strongly. And I think LSIs respect that and it does have a mobilizing effect. And they flat out don't care about some things and won't apply their energy there if they don't think it matters.

Yeah, but as damn I_T_ (and "Cold" communication style) they are fucking bad at seeing if and what matters. Guess relationships are not their forte. Actually I think I also found some answers in this thread : http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...E-and-LSI-EIE)
As duals of Fe- EJ, the LSI expects initiative-taking behavior and definition of the parameters and terms of the relationship. They are only sure when it comes to the area of attraction and probably don't do much unless someone damn puts them in a context where they can use their Se to grab an opportunity or something. I recall having read something like : "As a EIE you know you've come across a LSI when you feel the need to constantly follow them around with a sharp knife" . I suppose as statics they're good at seeing stuff as a 'stage' taken as something relatively fixed and Ne - Polr doesn't help them find ways of change or improvement easily even when they may be less than super-satisfied with that stage. That's the way I see it atm.

[IBTL]

Interesting. I agree. Don't think my parents were stable at all, plus father was EIE and mother was LSE. She is NOT suited to bringing up children. EIE males also have tons of issues if you ask me, like they can't really reconcile with being a male and an NF, so they overcompensate all over the place. Just look at this forum for striking examples of Se-HA males who don't think they are EIE.

EIE males are interesting and larger than life for sure. They'll do the difficult, dirty work that no one else will do, though.

My boyfriend and I have an EIE friend who's a carpenter. Now that he builds movie stages and sets for a guild, he seems much happier. He's no longer trying to fix the world's ills by beating random people up and other violent acts like that.

He's into super heroes and comic books. He likes video games, movies, beer, and steaks.

[Iris]

Yeah, but as damn I_T_ (and "Cold" communication style) they are fucking bad at seeing if and what matters. Guess relationships are not their forte. Actually I think I also found some answers in this thread : http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...E-and-LSI-EIE)
As duals of Fe- EJ, the LSI expects initiative-taking behavior and definition of the parameters and terms of the relationship. They are only sure when it comes to the area of attraction and probably don't do much unless someone damn puts them in a context where they can use their Se to grab an opportunity or something. I recall having read something like : "As a EIE you know you've come across a LSI when you feel the need to constantly follow them around with a sharp knife" . I suppose as statics they're good at seeing stuff as a 'stage' taken as something relatively fixed and Ne - Polr doesn't help them find ways of change or improvement easily even when they may be less than super-satisfied with that stage. That's the way I see it atm.

So I think the EIE starts working with Se and the LSI says oh here, let me help you, that is easy for me, or the EIE is all mesmerizing with their Fe and Ni, which is very inspiring and gets the LSI moving. In your situation, the LIEs EJ activity will probably complement you nicely. Having a sensor around is a nice thing, but shared quadra values is a good thing, too.

[Iris]

Ugh. That was well put, even if it seems obvious and simple. I couldn't even put into those same words the feeling I have after interacting with this LSE girl that I've had to work with, that's how frustrating it gets. I like her quite a lot, too. But that flow of information, it's so fucked up. There's actually no flow at all, it's more like painstaking drips.

I really think it's just your conflictor that it's this bad with. The P vs J differences can be glaring at times but not as bad. Static/dynamic, not really. Process/result, barely notice the difference. My LSI bf and I are on the opposite for most of these dichotomies, but maybe being in the same quadra smooths over them so that I can't even tell.

Are you surrounded by SLIs, or something??

I am surrounded by EIIs. Which isn't all bad. I have been surrounded by deltas for so long that I have a little voice in my head with the contrasting Delta opinion. You could say that being surrounded by your conflicting quadra makes you more well rounded. (But my emotions usually cause me to favor a Beta approach.)

[IBTL]

I am surrounded by EIIs. Which isn't all bad. I have been surrounded by deltas for so long that I have a little voice in my head with the contrasting Delta opinion. You could say that being surrounded by your conflicting quadra makes you more well rounded. (But my emotions usually cause me to favor a Beta approach.)

Are you in education?

[Iris]

Not exactly. I have done a small amount of elementary age teaching, which I can do well but don't really enjoy. What I do enjoy is speaking to groups about antiques, which I guess is educational.

[Amber]

So I think the EIE starts working with Se and the LSI says oh here, let me help you, that is easy for me, or the EIE is all mesmerizing with their Fe and Ni, which is very inspiring and gets the LSI moving. In your situation, the LIEs EJ activity will probably complement you nicely. Having a sensor around is a nice thing, but shared quadra values is a good thing, too.

well, reading socionics profiles and intertype prognoses like a fool, I said fuck it and decided to "make a declaration". The guy got very active and communicative, confessing, among other bs, that "I'm a very confusing, but also very interesting girl". Apparently I've been sending mixed signals like crap and he didn't know what to make of it. But, man. Maybe he's got Aspergers or something. LSI =autism. You have to have a disease to think someone is not interested when they tell you they like 3 other guys just as much as they like you.
In terms of quadra values ...I think Gamma has a much more healthy and practical view of relationships, in general. No time wasted playing games, teasing and testing or 'tormenting' the other unless they know there's something "internal" to back up the whole thing.

[Aylen]

My idea of an Alpha +++ male =outwardly aggressive but inwardly gentle. His type is not in the hierarchy above.

Hahahah I thought I posted this in the male hierarchy thread but I don't believe in accidents so I will leave it here.

[Amber]

My idea of an Alpha +++ male =outwardly aggressive but inwardly gentle. His type is not in the hierarchy above.

Hahahah I thought I posted this in the male hierarchy thread but I don't believe in accidents so I will leave it here.

"they are won over by direct signs of submission" .... (provided that the fight is not easily won). Guess Gulenko didn't make it clear, but that might mean expectations of you spraying the front of your house or writing in the sky that they are "top notch".

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

inwardly gentle is very subjective tho. people have all sorts of different subjective reactions to what other people do so you still primarily enjoy a man that is aggressive and top dog. A lot of people on here can't agree when somebody is being 'inwardly hostile' for example - it's the internet and there really is no way to judge external/objective aggression.

since 'internal genteless' can't in any way be measured- it's just a load of shit. your DNA as a woman is attracted to alpha males and there's no way around this. If I asked you to sniff the armpit sweat of an alpha male and then sniff the armpit sweat of a non-alpha male you would instinctively prefer the alpha male scent over the non alpha male scent.

that you told me you were into externally aggressive males was all I needed to know, the internal gentle crap just is irrelevant. I'm sure that's what you tell yourself to make you feel better about it tho which is okay just not scientific.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

also the gamma males on that list seem awfully similar to the alpha males, they are more str8 man looking compared to the beta, delta, and omega males. the beta males look like gay porn stars and something gay men like to fap to, the delta males just look old/fugly and the omega males are of course unattractive. The alpha/gamma males look too alike to me so I think they should simply merge that category together.

alpha/beta/delta/omega - is the true hireachy list.

I think the insights on the chart though are rather insecure and half-baked but just look at how the men look objectively without any psychoanalysis and you will see what im talking about.

[Amber]

wtf is going on in my thread on damn LSI and damn LIE

[bolong]

"I'm a very confusing, but also very interesting girl".

I thought you were a dude ever since you joined the forum.

Apparently I've been sending mixed signals like crap and he didn't know what to make of it. But, man. Maybe he's got Aspergers or something. LSI =autism. You have to have a disease to think someone is not interested when they tell you they like 3 other guys just as much as they like you.

You told him you like THREE OTHER GUYS as much as you like him?? Do you want him to run away?? THIS is what is meant by "won over by direct shows of submission," beta ST HAS to know that they are the only one you're thinking of.

I liked my current LSI bf for SO SO long, dropped more hints than I ever have in my life, made outright declarations a few times... but he didn't do anything until he had solid proof that my ex was out of the picture. I still make fun of it.

[Beautiful sky]

There are a ton of duals why not choose SEE?

A choice between Benefit or a Mirror relations? IDK this is kind of hard as both are very warm relations. I would suggest values based on similarity between Fi/Fe divide. So LIE.