Originally Posted by nanashi
My Esfp childhood best friend and I haven't always seen eye to eye on a lot of things, but she's incredibly loyal, sassy, and humane and I'm glad to have her.
I am trying to make a better relationship with my Esfp mother.
when I was a kid I used to wish my best friend's mom was mine (she's ESFP i think) and was on of the coolest, most supportive moms I've met.
instead I'm stuck with a neurotic, childish, temper-tantrum mess of a mom who sucks at giving any kind of advice and turns everything into being about her and has mini crises about nothing on a daily basis. I always felt like I was the adult and she was the child. (ESE-Fe..) though I feel bad for her because my dad is a dick.
My mom is "in love" with this guy: http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/al...to-kilcher.htm. we watched this show together a few times and she says he has to be one of the funniest men alive. And basically she wishes she married someone like him. (he's totally LII)
anywho.
life huh.
Correction: My pastor is NOT INFj. He is ENFp. But there are a few EII women at church and my "significant other" is my dual.
Jesus
I think Jung called Jesus not real and a god of death at the same time to state that we should love ourselves for in doing so we love Jesus, that is, Jesus is in us...
I don't know (or haven't identified yet) any duals besides my mom. She's a nice woman, but well, she's my mom LSE and I'm not so perfect teenage girl.
She constantly complains how bad, lazy, shallow, unappreciative I am and how I ruined her life. She also thinks I'm a psychopath, which is just... pretty hard to appreciate duality with. But I know I've been a hard and defiant child when I was growing up (and probably still am a bit).
um ok my mom would say opposite of me; isn't your mom emotional? how could you stand to hurt them?
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
You'd think there would be some level of natural magnetism between duals, increasing the chances of them at least initiating some sort of intense relationship, negative or otherwise. However, I don't think I've ever been in a friendship or a relationship with a person of my respective dual type. Maybe one time, but that crazy son of a bitch may have been an SEE. He was like a 7w8 version of woofwoofl.
.
Last edited by RedBeard; 05-31-2013 at 03:25 PM.
The trickster is at one and the same time creator and destroyer, giver and negator, he who dupes others, and who is always duped himself.
Is this confirmation that dual communication can be good and bad. Oh my how I've waited for this day.
Ease of communication just opens up the floodgates for more negative bullshit.
Very few people avert their eyes from train wrecks
The trickster is at one and the same time creator and destroyer, giver and negator, he who dupes others, and who is always duped himself.
you mean if she's ethical? I'm pretty sure she's logical and LSE.
The thing with me is that I've always been too carefree and detached to actually notice hurting my parents. I used to be very egocentric too.
well, I guess I'm still egocentric, but I try not to give them more reasons to worry anymore and to do everything what's demanded of me. I don't like hurting or fighting with others. I'm just too reserved I guess. It hurts her that I don't help her at home spontaneously even though she's busy and I only think about myself most of the time. but I'm just my own person. I don't want to dedicate my life to anybody else and I hate people interfering in it.
Thanks for the kind words. That's what I think. I hope things work out for me and I'll move out of my parents' house quick. I think it would be good for my relationship with them.
Duality has nothing to do with physical, mental, or emotional chemistry. It doesn't even necessarily mean better communication as the theory suggests. The idea that we are 'receptive' to certain kinds of communication is one I have found more highly dubious as time goes on. In reality, it seems that people are receptive to different kinds of communication at different points in their lives. Whether or not someone 'needs' a certain type of communication, as Socionics suggests, is a matter of debate. It is packaged very nicely, but even on a theoretical level the low-side of 'compatible' pairings are often downplayed. For instance, the difference in logical and emotional thinking, even through Ti-Fe, and Te-Fi, will still have certain frictions because of the polarizing nature of the two. This is hardly ever mentioned or extrapolated on.
Relationship compatibility is best assessed through other factors. Socionics makes it easy to justify that duality is real through rationalizations, but objectively it is difficult for me to be sure that any observations of this sort are anything more than coincidence.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" isand not
no not ethical type, but an emotional person. Logical types have emotions.
I think if you can't notice emotions of others you need to consider another type, maybe in the carefree dichotomy.
Typically EII are good about helping their parents, loved ones. I don't think you care much about doing Fi, managing relationships, harmonizing them around you, meeting the goals of other, pleasing people
According to my Fi, it's not appropriate for you to just go about your own carefree business and let your relations suffer and then resort to just providing physical distance as a way to "solve" your problems. Where are your ethics?
"Fi relations are a tactic, a bond, a unification made inside of and in relation to all of the other existing unities between people. Within it there are certain rules and understandings of what is appropriate and not appropriate to do within the realm of ethics. It's not as simple as "oh, don't use dirty words." Its more like 'we are attracted to eachother (as a bond),' and, sometimes, 'we are not attracted to them.'"
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Dichotomies are too vague for me and I'm not sure which one fits me more.
I actually like close relations with other people, but it's hard to make such with my mom specifically. I can't really meet her standards and she's just pretty hostile for me sometimes. I guess I'm just too lazy to meet her standards (；´Д｀).
I'm dating my dual.
So there's that, I guess.
You mean because you're lazy that doesn't meet her standard, therefore she doesn't want to make a good relationship. OR....
That you think you're lazy that's why you think she won't want a good relationship?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
lol both. I'm too lazy to meet her standards and thus my laziness is not meeting her standards (@_@)
but I see where you're going here... so there is no such thing as truly lazy EII?
NO Duty is extremely important to an EII and responsibility proceeds any sense of priority to internal or external comfort. Hence, valued but weak Si.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
That's really cutting, however nicely couched.
Maritsa is one of my favorite people on this site not only because she is a really nice person but also because she knows Socionics so well and has great insight and knowledge. Of course she is an INFJ. People just mess when they question that, they DON'T mean it so don't take them seriously, Cute. New people who are seriously interested in Socionics will gain from Maritsa's insights.
Of course she may have mistyped some people, she is not infallible. But I trust her typing more than many others (and some just type silly for silly sake - now that is confusing to a newbie). But there are also people here who mistype themselves, and when they get "attached" to their chosen Socionics-type identity, they can get very offended when its questioned, and others pile on their accusations just to join the fray.
I personally would not press the point of a mistyped person because in my opinion if a person really wants to understand they will arrive at their real type eventually anyway. But some don't really want to understand! Each to his own. When DJArendee started on PerC he was all ISTP... but I kept wondering why he wasn't more like my ISTP, though it did not occur to me then he was mistyped. But then he started changing to different other types, till he arrived at ESTP and I think he is probably that. Reminds me of my ESTP son. But DJ really wanted to find his type and others are not so curious...
For anyone looking for more Socionics insight, Marista's thoughts are always worth considering, IMO.
Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 06-04-2013 at 12:42 AM.
My sides hurt.
My duties are important to me, but I need to understand them first. My teacher (who I think is EII too) said I'm very reliable a couple of days ago (^O^)／. I didn't use to be, but I've grown up; learnt stuff I guess. Most people change as teenagers.
I'm extremely clumsy and uncoordinated. i can;t keep balance and i often fall down stairs in normal sport shoes... Doesn't it characterise sx polr types? I've always thought of myself as Intuitive because of that.
I try to eat well though. But I wish I didn't have to eat at all. not that I wouldn't. I just hate having to worry about my physical health. It's so time consuming.
I like enjoying physical sensations, but I don't feel comfortable when my life is focused on that. I like the feeling that I'm doing something productive, though I can't really tell if I am going anywhere most of the time.
My laziness manifests more by procrastinating; insane gaming and such and actually neglecting my physical needs and hygiene.
While some people learn to be reliable, and EII is innately so.
Those things are not related to being an EII. In fact they further contribute to you being another type other than EII. So which function do you related to being "clumsy"? SEE are clumsy so are SEI. So do you think that all SEE are dirty people? They ignore Si. When you play video games excessively, that is being drawn to an activity that somehow satisfy one need over another. An EII would be concerned about keeping healthy, therefore they would actually notice that there's excess of an activity that keeps them from being/looking healthy as it goes directly against their hidden agenda otherwise.
You won't find a description of either the EII or SEI being clumsy:
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=EII
Where are the people and other relationships in your life, where are causes and such that you concern yourself with where you can apply your sense of ethics? Thus far, nothing in the above post you said has any sense for one's ideal (Ne) ethics (standards/principle/morals).
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 06-04-2013 at 01:52 PM.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I was referring more to you typing me as SEI (guess it's a bad thread?).
I might have mistyped myself. I don't have many friends or social interaction, not even at school, so maybe I'm just typeless at this point (_ _). or I'm just an exceptionally asocial and undeveloped EII?
...and finally start teabagging people irl!
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
may be
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
This can't be true! Socionics is ruined. Maritsa really believed that EIIs only had positive attributes.
Bales, don't cry. *tells everyone in silent, cold look "don't say anything more to her."*
For reals though, Maritsa-bashing is getting old and I've only been here a few days.
And here I was, hoping for a poem that would extol my chivalry.
My previous post can be read two different ways, none of them truer than the other. But it is sweet that you would think the best of me, thank you. Apparently that's what you do.
That's a ridiculously self involved, insensitive and unempathic response.
Maybe she tries to be independent because her mother calls her lazy and selfish and tells her she's ruined her life? And she withdraws from her because she is emotionally abusive. Where are her mother's ethics?
Last edited by betterthan; 06-17-2013 at 01:37 PM.
IEI, sp/sx 4w3.
Hey cute
The fact that you're coming from such a developed level of understanding for your mum does show you are a good person, so I hope you don't take any of Maritsa's unsympathetic, idiotic bullshit to heart.
Have you considered IEI? You and your relationship to your mum sounds way like mine to my mum (i'm IEI and she's LSE) - she's also called me selfish, which I think is just a differing of values and really not true in the slightest lol; IEI's can become independent and retreat into themselves for self protection. I also think we do that with LSE's because they tend to be so fucking meddling and imposing! While living with my mum I was often angry and unproductive and lazy (it was a way to defend myself against her and avoid being commanded by her) - but once I left home I became way more productive, successful and while I have a tough defense, i'm generally considered very kind and compassionate; and these values deeply motivate me (but never really grew at home because things were too painful and messed up). There's not anything wrong with you and you can't really be yourself (only you that is hurting rather than you that is positive) in a family household with your conflictor. When you get out and move away you'll begin to blossom; don't judge yourself by who you are in that relationship (it's too messy to adequately allow you to be who you are) and try to limit that relationship as much as possible; you will be SO much happier and have such a better sense of your self.
While conflictor relations are painful and damaging - I also think one of the worst things about them is how much they limit someone's character; you're not free to grow, develop and express the wholeness of yourself and all your great traits can't grow; when you get out they can. So not helping out around the house or being lazy and independent; that's not really 'you', it's you in a bad situation. And don't take too much responsibility for your mum's own cruelty (telling you you ruined her life is just a disgusting thing to say and not right no matter what the situation) and hostility; they are not your fault, you don't deserve them and half the time what she tells you isn't true. There are going to be so many people that truly get you and love you in the years to come so please don't take this relationship with your mum too much to heart!
IEI, sp/sx 4w3.
I'm an "Fi" ego and I toss people to the side like bags of dog food, especially when they're meddling, know-it-all little shits. Ain't no body got time for that.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Obviously I'm poking fun of Marista's take on Fi....
Sorry that one went above your head.
You read Maritsa's posts?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Maritsa's 'please control my life' LSE duality focus is caused by unresolved daddy issues?
Who would have thought?
I've seen that before, my SLI brother in law is also highly doubtful about Socionics. But I think it all comes down about expecting stuff to be very detailed. Socionics doesn't predict a script for behaviour. A person may like another but at the same time be so distracted about something else that isn't capable of noticing it. Not all what we do is determined by type.
I've never seen Socionics to fail in its essence and I've been observing stuff with a critical eye for many years.
[| NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
My little brother. He's LIE or ILI-Te. We like to argue about different points and then come to conclusions together. It's basically just really hard to disagree for too long. We both have strong se so we had a few power struggles growing up which were mostly just hilarious. Also some of my uncles are gamma nt's and possibly one aunt. I have a big family. I think the difference in the interactions are just that we notice what each are talking about and respond positively more often than in the other relations.
Great post Carrina
On a sarcastic note thanks for rehashing a thread with one of my "you're not EII" and here goes Maritsa bashing
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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