How can you tell when an SLE/ESTp likes you?

[Ezra]

We value all functions to some degree. If we didn't we would see many more drastically unhealthy individuals... and I think the most unhealthy individuals are those who don't value their 3rd, 4th, and 7th functions at all. Now I'm not saying that individuals value 3rd, 4th, 7th, and 8th functions more than 1st, 2nd, 5th, and 6th functions, however we value them all to a degree.

You've got it wrong. It's not that we value all eight functions, but that we use all eight. This is what is meant by the unconscious functions.

It is necessary for all of us to use all 8 functions to some degree to operate properly in society. Therefore they have value. Now if you want to argue that just because something has value that people 100% overlook the value of the function go ahead. You definitely won't get me to agree with you. I'm thoroughly convinced that you are an ISTj by the way.

Okay. Well, your thoughts impose no necessity on things.

Don't know what that means.....

The 17th century French philosopher René Descartes came up with it. It means that no matter what one thinks, it does not change reality.

[zenbrat]

Ezra,

I do not dislike you. If you didn't care what I thought, and didn't run whining to your "supporters" about big, bad zenbrat picking on you, I'd almost believe you were an 8.

However, your blowhard, whiny, chest-thumping, "trying too hard to be hard" behavior is cp6.

Oh, and btw - it's MBTI you dipshit, not MBTT.

What? zenbrat, you've lost control of this battle I'm afraid. If this were a real conflict, your troops would be splattered, because under your leadership they would've been too arrogant and too foolhardy. You leapt before you looked. Since you're impossible to persuade, I won't bother trying to explain how you are wrong in all of the above. I refuse to waste my time on you any longer.

*snort* This post goes in my sig line. I have a special place in my heart for the absurd.

{dying of laughter}

You're such an angry little man, Ezra. Might I suggest yoga? A spot of tea perhaps? A biscuit?

[Ezra]

Look, zenbrat, it's a celebrity you. She's a pop singer.

!

why?

If you've ever seen a picture of her, you'll know why.

[Ezra]

I like your avatar, zenbrat.

[Suomea]

We value all functions to some degree. If we didn't we would see many more drastically unhealthy individuals... and I think the most unhealthy individuals are those who don't value their 3rd, 4th, and 7th functions at all. Now I'm not saying that individuals value 3rd, 4th, 7th, and 8th functions more than 1st, 2nd, 5th, and 6th functions, however we value them all to a degree.

You've got it wrong. It's not that we value all eight functions, but that we use all eight. This is what is meant by the unconscious functions.

It is necessary for all of us to use all 8 functions to some degree to operate properly in society. Therefore they have value. Now if you want to argue that just because something has value that people 100% overlook the value of the function go ahead. You definitely won't get me to agree with you. I'm thoroughly convinced that you are an ISTj by the way.

Okay. Well, your thoughts impose no necessity on things.

Don't know what that means.....

The 17th century French philosopher René Descartes came up with it. It means that no matter what one thinks, it does not change reality.

I'm not sure how it has any relevance to what we are discussing right now. Since my prime objective in life is the search for truth I'm not sure how this attempt at a closeout or the previous one solves anything or brings us any nearer to that truth. I'm more than willing to hear your arguments for why people don't value their 3rd, 4th, 7th, and 8th functions at all. This is an interesting topic for me. But you seem to not make any arguments at all. Maybe an example of any famous person at all who you think is a particular type and a display of how they don't value their 3rd, 4th, 7th, and 8th functions at all might help....:)

[aka-kitsune]

I like your avatar, zenbrat.

Translation: zenbrat, please spank me!!

[Suomea]

(re: Ezra's icons)

"Ezra Reading the Law in the Hearing of the People"
"World Music Central - Your Connection to World Music"
"Big Brother is watching you"
*a soldier with a mess kit*
"I appreciate the Spartan ideals and way of life"

i dunno, sharing these "impressions" isn't my best game, but reading those together, it sounds to me like i'm playing Civilization III or something.

(re: valuing of functions)

i think i understand where Suomea is coming from. basically you're arguing: practicality necessitates that our valuing of the functions be differentiated at most "relatively"? where as Ezra of course toes a more "absolutist" line.

as i think about this though i'm not so sure it's necessarily Ne POLR, his attitude. because lots of Ni+Te types around here seem to take comparably rigid stances on socionics functioning. they're a lot more persistent in pushing that point of view though ime. Ezra's "necessity on things" comment seems very beta ST to me. to a lesser extent i can see myself making similar comments when i get frustrated with the progress of an argument.

Having Ne as a 4th function and as a 7th function can look similar IMO. Weak Ne versus repressed Ne. A heavy Ni subtype INTp, like someone who I think is on this forum, can devalue Ne so much that they do not even look at the possibility that they are wrong and do whatever they can to push their ideas and keep the boat flowing down the same river....:)

[Ezra]

I'm not sure how it has any relevance to what we are discussing right now. Since my prime objective in life is the search for truth I'm not sure how this attempt at a closeout or the previous one solves anything or brings us any nearer to that truth. I'm more than willing to hear your arguments for why people don't value their 3rd, 4th, 7th, and 8th functions at all. This is an interesting topic for me. But you seem to not make any arguments at all. Maybe an example of any famous person at all who you think is a particular type and a display of how they don't value their 3rd, 4th, 7th, and 8th functions at all might help....

Socionically speaking, people value their 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th functions. They devalue their 3rd, 4th, 7th and 8th functions. If you would like to debate this fact, it will not be with me, because, quite frankly, I'm not interested in the foundations for socionics; I'm interested in the system itself. I believe that Augusta has formulated a perfectly valid concept, and I cannot be arsed questioning it, because it works perfectly fine.

[Blaze]

i value my 3rd and 4th functions...i just can't do them very well. and when other people can, from a distance, i can value it. it's when they feel impatience with my weakness and act out of that toward me. this is what i don't value.

[Ezra]

I'm thoroughly convinced that you are an ISTj by the way.

a) Compare me to PotatoSpirit, Smilingeyes and Saddam Hussein, all LSIs.
b) Explain how I could possibly have Ti as a first function.
c) Explain to me why I am such good terms with an IEE (one of my best friends).
d) Explain exactly how I represent the IJ temperament in any way.
e) Explain how EIE is my dual.

[Suomea]

I'm thoroughly convinced that you are an ISTj by the way.

a) Compare me to PotatoSpirit, Smilingeyes and Saddam Hussein, all LSIs.
b) Explain how I could possibly have Ti as a first function.
c) Explain to me why I am such good terms with an IEE (one of my best friends).
d) Explain exactly how I represent the IJ temperament in any way.
e) Explain how EIE is my dual.

I'm not sure how it has any relevance to what we are discussing right now. Since my prime objective in life is the search for truth I'm not sure how this attempt at a closeout or the previous one solves anything or brings us any nearer to that truth. I'm more than willing to hear your arguments for why people don't value their 3rd, 4th, 7th, and 8th functions at all. This is an interesting topic for me. But you seem to not make any arguments at all. Maybe an example of any famous person at all who you think is a particular type and a display of how they don't value their 3rd, 4th, 7th, and 8th functions at all might help....:)

Socionically speaking, people value their 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th functions. They devalue their 3rd, 4th, 7th and 8th functions. If you would like to debate this fact, it will not be with me, because, quite frankly, I'm not interested in the foundations for socionics; I'm interested in the system itself. I believe that Augusta has formulated a perfectly valid concept, and I cannot be arsed questioning it, because it works perfectly fine.

So do you think that you are an asshole ESTp who bashes his Ne into the ground..... or a misguided ISTj? Either way you really are unstable online at least... maybe you are much more pleasant in real life....:) Since you really refuse to put forth any arguments yourself about anything and just want to make statements of fact all over the place which aren't statements of fact at all but topics for debate.... discussing things with you is really pointless. I don't really feel you add anything valuable on the forum in other topics so I think it's best if I just put you on ignore so I don't get baited into a pointless argument with you like others have.....:) If anyone else would like to discuss Ezra's type with me feel free to PM me. ESTp is a possibility but right now I'm more convinced of ISTj.....:)

[Ezra]

maybe you are much more pleasant in real life....

Talk to Expat; he's met me.

[FDG]

I don't understand where people base the typing of smilingeyes as LSI. Everything he says is so clearly index of a dynamic type that...I don't know.

[Ezra]

I don't understand where people base the typing of smilingeyes as LSI. Everything he says is so clearly index of a dynamic type that...I don't know.

I think it's because of the fact that he's created a system, and an LSE wouldn't do that kind of thing. In essence, he is a perfect demonstration of textbook Ti behaviour.

[Blaze]

So do you think that you are an asshole ESTp who bashes his Ne into the ground..... or a misguided ISTj? Either way you really are unstable online at least... maybe you are much more pleasant in real life.... Since you really refuse to put forth any arguments yourself about anything and just want to make statements of fact all over the place which aren't statements of fact at all but topics for debate.... discussing things with you is really pointless. I don't really feel you add anything valuable on the forum in other topics

hello, yes? ezra's just a step away from trollism, too.

[Ezra]

I love the way everyone on this forum hates the way I act.

I've made so many new enemies since I came here.

And I'm really numb to it all as well - I don't really register the fact that people actually think I talk and act shit.

[Blaze]

whaddya...proud?

[FDG]

I don't understand where people base the typing of smilingeyes as LSI. Everything he says is so clearly index of a dynamic type that...I don't know.

I think it's because of the fact that he's created a system, and an LSE wouldn't do that kind of thing. In essence, he is a perfect demonstration of textbook Ti behaviour.

He created it as LIE...and LIEs have Ni as creative function...need to say more?

[aut0]

I don't understand where people base the typing of smilingeyes as LSI. Everything he says is so clearly index of a dynamic type that...I don't know.

I think it's because of the fact that he's created a system, and an LSE wouldn't do that kind of thing. In essence, he is a perfect demonstration of textbook Ti behaviour.

He created it as LIE...and LIEs have Ni as creative function...need to say more?

Yeah, but that's if you believe that your type changes, not everyone does. I have a hard time believing someone who thinks that they were every EXXj type possible, jumping from quadra to quadra in sequential order from ESFj > ENFj > ENTj > ESTj, wtf?

Regardless of what type I am, I'm still the same person at the core as I was when I was a kid.

People thinking he's an Ti-ego type also coincides with the fact that most of the people who post theories end up being Ti types (or at least claim to be), tcauldig/machintruc/hitta/etc. So it doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.

[Ezra]

whaddya...proud?

Heartbroken.

[Ezra]

I don't understand where people base the typing of smilingeyes as LSI. Everything he says is so clearly index of a dynamic type that...I don't know.

I think it's because of the fact that he's created a system, and an LSE wouldn't do that kind of thing. In essence, he is a perfect demonstration of textbook Ti behaviour.

You need to stop viewing the functions as being so cut-and-dry, and also realize that people are capable of using functions that are not in their ego blocks. Smilingeyes can use just fine, just as I can use without thinking twice. Also, it's not wise to make huge blanket statements about entire types as you've been doing since you've gotten here, simply because there are gazillions of exceptions within each type.

True. But people don't really use their 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th functions to the extent that they do their 1st, 2nd, 7th and 8th. Also, if that's entirely true, why do people laugh when I type myself as an LSE?

[misutii]

I love the way everyone on this forum hates the way I act.

I've made so many new enemies since I came here.

And I'm really numb to it all as well - I don't really register the fact that people actually think I talk and act shit.

not everyone, it's just that some people take your remarks a bit too personally and get defensive and so feel it's their duty to argue with you so they can try to prove you wrong. They don't hate the way you act or they'd ignore you - lol even if they won't admit i'd say most of them actually find you interesting. You're caustic but not offensively so because you're often just being honest and straightforward (which some might find overly caustic) but it's refreshing and good for the forum imo

[zenbrat]

I don't understand where people base the typing of smilingeyes as LSI. Everything he says is so clearly index of a dynamic type that...I don't know.

I think it's because of the fact that he's created a system, and an LSE wouldn't do that kind of thing. In essence, he is a perfect demonstration of textbook Ti behaviour.

You need to stop viewing the functions as being so cut-and-dry, and also realize that people are capable of using functions that are not in their ego blocks.

It's like paint. If you mix green (Se) with brown (Ti), you get olive green. If you mix green (Se) with yellow (Fi), you get lime green. It's still green (Se dominant), but its appearance changes based upon what it is mixed with.

We also develop cognitive and emotional skill sets during life stages. We call it maturity. Socionics might call it "developing weak functions".

[Megan]

Megan,

From what I have observed, N or S in the ExTj personality affects how the person accepts foreign information.

The ESTj will reject information that conflicts with what they know from their experiences, unless you can provide tangible, reproducible proof otherwise. They will dub it (and the speaker) dumb, wrong and stupid until convinced. The j is very pronounced when combined with S, so it's easier to spot, because foreign information is first judged by ethos. They can, and often do, blindly accept "logic" from a reputable, admired source (even if it's wrong).

I think you might be right about this.

[Ezra]

Megan,

From what I have observed, N or S in the ExTj personality affects how the person accepts foreign information.

The ESTj will reject information that conflicts with what they know from their experiences, unless you can provide tangible, reproducible proof otherwise. They will dub it (and the speaker) dumb, wrong and stupid until convinced. The j is very pronounced when combined with S, so it's easier to spot, because foreign information is first judged by ethos. They can, and often do, blindly accept "logic" from a reputable, admired source (even if it's wrong).

I think you might be right about this.

I'd still say it was to do with strong and conscious Ti.

i think Ezra is good people overall. when i bust out the COMPENSATION word it's more like a heads-up than actually being offended. i get easily offended by other people who get easily offended. but otherwise i don't consider myself easily offended

I think that's probably a sign of weak Ethics i.e. you're a Logical type. What do you reckon?

[misutii]

Megan,

From what I have observed, N or S in the ExTj personality affects how the person accepts foreign information.

The ESTj will reject information that conflicts with what they know from their experiences, unless you can provide tangible, reproducible proof otherwise. They will dub it (and the speaker) dumb, wrong and stupid until convinced. The j is very pronounced when combined with S, so it's easier to spot, because foreign information is first judged by ethos. They can, and often do, blindly accept "logic" from a reputable, admired source (even if it's wrong).

I think you might be right about this.

I'd still say it was to do with strong and conscious Ti.

i think Ezra is good people overall. when i bust out the COMPENSATION word it's more like a heads-up than actually being offended. i get easily offended by other people who get easily offended. but otherwise i don't consider myself easily offended

I think that's probably a sign of weak Ethics i.e. you're a Logical type. What do you reckon?

Ezra I am like 99% certain that you are ESTp and that everyone that disagrees with this is socionically retarded because I found this thread http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...678&highlight= fucking hilarious. Of course there's like 1% of uncertainty but you can rectify that by putting these images in your head: imagine:

Rolling a quadropilegic (aka cripple) on to a railroad track and listening to them try to convince you to move them as the train approaches (it's a clear day and the train is moving slow)

A giant black man giving a retarded pregnant girl an abortion with his penis

A plane crashing into a skyscraper and people jumping out of the windows en masse to the tune of "it's raining men". the splatters line up with the drum beat and in the music video the guy singing has a mullet.

Using teeth to tear out a women's clitoris and then stapling it to her face in two pieces

Mohammed durka durka Jihad surprise!

Curb stomping the last panda bear

someone you hate being castrated, covered in tar, feathered, and then being set free around the busiest intersection in town. Now escalate that to 10 people, make sure the tar's in their eyes, and make it an LA freeway with fences on both sides.

If none of these horrible terrible, abhorrently disturbingly gruesome socially unacceptable images offended you to the point where you hate me for having the gull to mention them on a public forum then the final 1% can be added to the 99% cuz you are my dual and yes i'll feel guilty once i click the "submit" button but really doesn't that just make it all that much more amusing? lol - i blame long bus rides and men that don't wear deodorant.

[Ezra]

You are one sick fuck.

[Blaze]

those are some funny fucking black humor jokes misutii....welcome to the dark side

[Blaze]

here's some estp humor....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIzHOfC0cMU

and another....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKuDYbnXBJQ


fucking hilarious....

[Ezra]

I didn't find the first one very funny, except for the bit where the guy goes "I haven't seen him in a while..." and Walken goes "you see this?" and smacks him. However, I did think that was a quality piece of film, and I'm downloading it so I can watch it in its entirety. It looks good.

I love the second one, because I love Pulp Fiction. I did find that really funny. What I found funnier though was the only truly funny bit in the first Austin Powers.

FOURTEEN-YEAR-OLD
Hi Mom! When's Steve coming home?
He said he was going to teach me to
play ball.

MRS. HARWIN
Sit down, Billy, I have some bad
news. As you know, your brother
Steven was a henchman in Dr. Evil's
Private Army.

BILLY
Was? What is it, Mom?

MRS. HARWIN
Your brother was run over by a
steamroller.

BILLY
A steamroller?
(bursting into tears)
No, not Steve! Since Dad died,
Steve's been like a father to me.

I also find the film Starship Troopers brilliant. Why? Not because of the action. But because it is caked in satire. It is actually funny. It is ingenious.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyyHPVpc0_M[/youtube]

A lot of my sense of humour revolves around clever or sly wit that a lot of my peers and about two thirds of this population at least do not understand or find the least bit funny. I, on the other hand, take huge pleasure it in. It is my favourite type of humour.

[Blaze]

yeah you have to watch the whole thing (for the first one from true romance)

[zenbrat]

You are one sick fuck.

LOL!

[Ezra]

Is this your irrefutable proof that I am an LSE?

[misutii]

listen to Bob Sagat's 10 minute rendition of "The Aristocrats" and then read "Tropic of Cancer" by Henry Miller and you'll never be the same lol

Anyways if you were ESTj, as others have claimed, I don't think you'd still be asking for proof in a thread titled "ESTps". Also I think you already know that you're ESTp but entertain other people attempting to tell you otherwise cause you know that they're wrong and it's amusing. And finally, if you were actually an ESTj (LSE) then us Betas would have succeeded by now in making sure that you stopped polluting our fucking sub-forum with your ESTjness and instead relocated your bitch ass here: http://the16types.info/forums/viewforum.php?f=6

[Ezra]

Please note that subforums are not used as advertised ("this is for discussion between [insert Quadra here] members"). So you have Alphas posting about Deltas in the Delta Quadra subforum, and Betas talking about Gammas in the Gamma Quadra subforum.

Please also note, particularly you, zenbrat, that I am not an LSE. While I do actually like Te a lot (hence proving socionics theory to be flawed), I am only an ESTJ in MBTT terms. I would even like to be LSE, but my character dictates otherwise.

[misutii]

Please note that subforums are not used as advertised ("this is for discussion between [insert Quadra here] members"). So you have Alphas posting about Deltas in the Delta Quadra subforum, and Betas talking about Gammas in the Gamma Quadra subforum.

Please also note, particularly you, zenbrat, that I am not an LSE. While I do actually like Te a lot (hence proving socionics theory to be flawed), I am only an ESTJ in MBTT terms. I would even like to be LSE, but my character dictates otherwise.

You're an SLE (ESTp) Se-subtype. the Se subtype pushes you towards Gamma and away from Alpha, hence the fact that you like and value Te. Do you disagree?

[misutii]

less grotesque images were rejected by other self-typed betas in the beta image thread. even by at least one beta irrational-irrational subtype.

myself.. still not offended btw (although the cripple one comes close. too personal and plausible...)
but very grossed out in any and every case (the panda bear one wasn't quite that bad though, as long as it's like a "Loony Tunes" curb-stomp lolol)
difficult to offend, but easy to gross out. i figure it's weak Fi + weak Se on my part

i digress..mostly just wanted to point out the image thread thing.

yeah but context has a lot to do with it, the fact that i was obviously trying to think of the most offensive things possible made it all a bit more comedic

[Ezra]

Please note that subforums are not used as advertised ("this is for discussion between [insert Quadra here] members"). So you have Alphas posting about Deltas in the Delta Quadra subforum, and Betas talking about Gammas in the Gamma Quadra subforum.

Please also note, particularly you, zenbrat, that I am not an LSE. While I do actually like Te a lot (hence proving socionics theory to be flawed), I am only an ESTJ in MBTT terms. I would even like to be LSE, but my character dictates otherwise.

You're an SLE (ESTp) Se-subtype. the Se subtype pushes you towards Gamma and away from Alpha, hence the fact that you like and value Te. Do you disagree?

No. Se isn't even strong in me. Alternatively, it is, and I don't value it. But I refuse to believe that Se is both strong and valued.

[Ezra]

As I've always said, I can only have Te or Se as a leading function in my eyes, and I don't think it's Se.

Expat would say that there's a confliction of values if I think I am LSE, SLE, or LIE. In reality, I'd like to get rich, help people out and settle down with a family. My one driving motivation in life? That. So you can't just say to me; you have to either want to get rich, make the world conform to your personal vision when it is realised, or help and protect people. Right now I'm in financial shit, so naturally I want to make money. But what I really want is to never have to work, ever again, and I can just live off what hard work I've achieved in my life. Sacrifice now, for brilliance later. That is what I want, indubitably.

[Ezra]

As I've always said, I can only have Te or Se as a leading function in my eyes, and I don't think it's Se.

Expat would say that there's a confliction of values if I think I am LSE, SLE, or LIE. In reality, I'd like to get rich, help people out and settle down with a family. My one driving motivation in life? That. So you can't just say to me; you have to either want to get rich, make the world conform to your personal vision when it is realised, or help and protect people. Right now I'm in financial shit, so naturally I want to make money. But what I really want is to never have to work, ever again, and I can just live off what hard work I've achieved in my life. Sacrifice now, for brilliance later. That is what I want, indubitably.

Lol see this is pretty much the exact opposite of what I want. I really don't care about getting rich. As long as I can get by, and I have a job that's fun, I'm all set. I really can't stand the idea of the typical American life (go to school, graduate, get a boring, high-paying desk job, get married, get a big house in the suburbs, pop out some kids, ship them off to school, retire, and die), and I'd rather live in the woods than do this, really. I really love the idea of living in many different places doing many different things, without having to settle down into a boring existence.

I'm not bashing you though - you do whatever you want, and it's all good.

Don't worry about it. I don't see it as boring. For me, what brings me pleasure in life are the small things. Good quality music, a walk in the hills, a good film, a shower after a refreshing morning run, console games. So I am prepared to work so that I can enjoy this lifestyle. I like to be busy, no matter on what, I just like to be busy. Si is important to me; I know it is, because I see it around me all the time. I'm always aware of how balanced I am as a person; of how comfortable I am. And I do all in my power to achieve maximum comfort so that I am more effective as a person. (Well, actually, that's a lie. I sometimes surrender myself to things which are bad for me, but which I get a rush off.) I know everything is temporary, but living around all over the place would do my Si in badly. I'm not sure I'd enjoy travelling the world for months on end, unlike you, who would derive immense pleasure out of it.

however, you also have to consider all the anti-Fi bombs you seem to have dropped across the forum..

Of course, if I am a logical type, which I definitely am, I'm shit in Fi and Fe.

A question, by the way, for anyone that knows. What is a Fi like in bed, and what is a Fe like in bed?

on more than one occasion the forums have been awash in your drool over Ni women!

Who, Garmonbozia?