Are IEIs-INFps capable of meanness?

[Suz]

@ everyone: wasn't that what Starfall (an Ni ego) did in this post?

Yeah but that was AFTER i called her out. At first she just said "I think Work is SEI"

[strrrng]

Yeah but that was AFTER i called her out. At first she just said "I think Work is SEI"

lol called her out

[Suz]

what i'm talking about is how Archon took that quote from Work and said that it gives him reason to believe she is not Ni ego... from what i can tell there wasn't much difference between what Work said she does and what Starfall did:

Work: "recognizes i need more information before I make assertions like that"
Starfall: "I have no real opinion on your type as I haven't given it much thought, except that for some unknown reason to me..."

(yes, Starfall did make the assertion first, but in her post afterwards she recognizes that there is a lack of information: "for some reason unknown to me")

Work: "qualify them with uncertainty or conditions"
Starfall: "I have no real opinion on your type" and "SEI just seems like a decent possibility"

i don't see what is so "opposite" about the two, to me there is not enough difference to declare Work as a possible Si ego just from that statement.

Thank you glam. . .i was starting to think i was in type limbo here. . .Maritsa's saying i'm SEE I feel like i'm being pulled in all directions! I wish i were an Se ego! Well, that is. . .provided my concept of Se is correct. . .now i'm totally confused.

[Suz]

Stop being a type

You're totally right mimosa. i will.

[strrrng]

what i'm talking about is how Archon took that quote from Work and said that it gives him reason to believe she is not Ni ego... from what i can tell there wasn't much difference between what Work said she does and what Starfall did:

Work: "recognizes i need more information before I make assertions like that"
Starfall: "I have no real opinion on your type as I haven't given it much thought, except that for some unknown reason to me..."

(yes, Starfall did make the assertion first, but in her post afterwards she recognizes that there is a lack of information: "for some reason unknown to me")

Work: "qualify them with uncertainty or conditions"
Starfall: "I have no real opinion on your type" and "SEI just seems like a decent possibility"

i don't see what is so "opposite" about the two, to me there is not enough difference to declare Work as a possible Si ego just from that statement.

Thing is, work referenced an apparent pattern behind the Ni thought process that manifested in her; Jake abstracted a functional interpretation from that, to shed light on a possible meaning regarding her type (he said, "this gives me reason to believe..."). Starfall merely proffered a tentative opinion, and later clarified when work overreacted to it, by saying that it was just an impression and conceding that she lacked sufficient information to conclude.

Also, no one has declared her an Si ego; merely, suggested it as plausible.

[07490]

I didn't read much of this thread but work is too smart to be an SEI, therefore I go with IEI.


oh please SEI don't kill me for saying this.

[strrrng]

Does that make you too dumb to be an EIE?

[07490]

Does that make you too dumb to be an EIE?

no becuase it was a joke, and i understand you have invested so much dedication on this thread that that comment probably pissed you off.

[strrrng]

My devotion is undying.

[Morcheeba]

No offense to Work, but I've seen some of her posts and labeling her "smart" would not be one of the first adjectives I would use to describe her. I'm not saying that she isn't, I just wouldn't be that quick to put that label on her.

[ArchonAlarion]

what i'm talking about is how Archon took that quote from Work and said that it gives him reason to believe she is not Ni ego... from what i can tell there wasn't much difference between what Work said she does and what Starfall did:

Work: "recognizes i need more information before I make assertions like that"
Starfall: "I have no real opinion on your type as I haven't given it much thought, except that for some unknown reason to me..."

(yes, Starfall did make the assertion first, but in her post afterwards she recognizes that there is a lack of information: "for some reason unknown to me")

Work: "qualify them with uncertainty or conditions"
Starfall: "I have no real opinion on your type" and "SEI just seems like a decent possibility"

i don't see what is so "opposite" about the two, to me there is not enough difference to declare Work as a possible Si ego just from that statement.

Well if I was in your position, I'd call myself out saying, "But Archon, aren't you going on just a little bit of information in making your decision, thus making you a possible Ni ego?"

Then I'd say, "No, because I'm not making a general statement, relating my main function to 'low-info-req'. I'm simply observing that WA's statement reminded me of a complaint Si people often seem to have about wariness of making decisions on little information. I think IXI's may have worries about information, but categorizing this worry as her primary function may hearken to her being Si dom. In other words, people complain about not having enough info; people act on little info, but what she did was admit that it is a major influence in her life as it is part of her dominant function. I also only pointed this out, not necessarily throwing all my weight into typing her."

Maybe I should change my original thought to, "This is something to consider, WA."

[Suz]

Well if I was in your position, I'd call myself out saying, "But Archon, aren't you going on just a little bit of information in making your decision, thus making you a possible Ni ego?"

Then I'd say, "No, because I'm not making a general statement, relating my main function to 'low-info-req'. I'm simply observing that WA's statement reminded me of a complaint Si people often seem to have about wariness of making decisions on little information. I think IXI's may have worries about information, but categorizing this worry as her primary function may hearken to her being Si dom. In other words, people complain about not having enough info; people act on little info, but what she did was admit that it is a major influence in her life as it is part of her dominant function. I also only pointed this out, not necessarily throwing all my weight into typing her."

Maybe I should change my original thought to, "This is something to consider, WA."

Thank you, that was more palatable actually.

[Gilly]

Thank you, that was more palatable actually.

Funny that.

[silverchris9]

Funny that.

yeessssss

and my family gets so mad when they see me be nice to strangers...DON'T YOU GET IT YET?

lol. I agree. Also, I tend to have three levels of people: complete strangers who I will never meet, to who's opinion of me I am infinitely indifferent, which is why I feel no shame in acting like I might be mentally ill while walking through the grocery store (waltzing to the cheesy eighties music, etc.), but to the chagrin of my SEE brother (to say nothing of my still-probably-LSE stepmother). People I will probably meet or have just met, around whom I act as you said, very nice, polite, fake, etc., etc., etc., and then people I really know, around whom I act progressively more and more like myself depending on how much I like them (which may still be nice, polite, etc., at times, but not in the same way).

Also, 16types discussion, like most (all?) discussion, is much more fun to analyze from a rhetorical POV than to read for content.

Work, I wouldn't be surprised if you are IEI, although I wouldn't be terribly surprised if you're not, either. I do think you come off as a little too tame and harmless here, maybe bubbly, for many people here to take you seriously as an opponent. "Every talent must unfold itself by fighting." I assume that you've noticed that. This is a big part of why, at least to me, you come off as potentially SEI, or more accurately, potentially not-beta. So, I would advise you to either be crazier or meaner (not necessarily meaner, just... harder edged?), and to not internet-bleep your curse words (although I am inclined to do the same, as I generally don't cuss. Generally. Although that has changed some since I came to college). But do you really care what a bunch of people on the internet say? Not really. So yeah, that's my opinion.

[Suz]

Work, I wouldn't be surprised if you are IEI, although I wouldn't be terribly surprised if you're not, either. I do think you come off as a little too tame and harmless here, maybe bubbly, for many people here to take you seriously as an opponent. "Every talent must unfold itself by fighting." I assume that you've noticed that. This is a big part of why, at least to me, you come off as potentially SEI, or more accurately, potentially not-beta. So, I would advise you to either be crazier or meaner (not necessarily meaner, just... harder edged?), and to not internet-bleep your curse words (although I am inclined to do the same, as I generally don't cuss. Generally. Although that has changed some since I came to college). But do you really care what a bunch of people on the internet say? Not really. So yeah, that's my opinion.

Really? i thought i was coming on TOO strong for an IEI and that was why you guys weren't seeing me as IEI! That's funny. . .

Yeah i dont like using curse words (lol internet bleep).

Well, according to maritsa and numbers I VI as SEE. I sort of relate to that one, but IEE fits better between the two. And apparently "dual" VI'd as SLI (which actually fits really well). I guess I'd never explored the extroverted possibilities for myself nor the introverted ones for him because I'm quiet and he's sociable. So I was either mirage or dual with him. Either of which might work. I still feel like it was duality.

So i dont know, do i seem more gamma or delta to you guys?

[strrrng]

Really? i thought i was coming on TOO strong for an IEI and that was why you guys weren't seeing me as IEI! That's funny. . .

It was more that you came across as completely blind to, and unconcerned with, the obvious cues and affects that were manifest in a beta-dominant interaction.

[thePirate]

So i dont know, do i seem more gamma or delta to you guys?

from the little I've read alpha/delta > > > gamma

again, I advise to take maritsas typings with a grain of salt. nothing against her, I just personally find her and her justifications(when she gives them) iffy and for you to mistype yourself over that would be horrendous.

[Suz]

It was more that you came across as completely blind to, and unconcerned with, the obvious cues and affects that were manifest in a beta-dominant interaction.

Hmm, for example?

[strrrng]

Hmm, for example?

The fact that Starfall, merky and myself all expressed similar sentiments about your behavior.

[Suz]

The fact that Starfall, merky and myself all expressed similar sentiments about your behavior.

I wasn't blind to that. . .i recognized that and i felt like you all were ganging up on me!

[strrrng]

I wasn't blind to that. . .i recognized that and i felt like you all were ganging up on me!

Well, I don't doubt that you were blind to our annoyance. It's the reasons why we were annoyed that seemed to fall flat on you, even though they were of a blatantly aristocratic nature, with not much ambiguity. Your continued behavior in the discussion possessed a blithe, misguided quality, which struck me as distinctly different than the way a beta would react to other betas, as they would be appraising things from a similar 'vantage point,' so to say. You seemed to be more or less soaking up superficial emotional entertainment, while never acknowledging your actual position in the interaction, which struck me as a presumption of inclusion. Ultimately, merry+democratic makes some sense for the disparity in communication.

I'm not saying this is the end all of your type, as I haven't examined you much; just that it's significant.

[strrrng]

Yes, agreed. I tend to think that if someone knowledgeable about socionics feels "ganged up on by betas" (especially for "no apparent reason"), then it's a decent indicator that they aren't beta.

[silverchris9]

Silverchris, you remind me of Baby :]

...who is Baby? I'm assuming from the smiley face afterward that this is a good thing? Also, thanks.

You seemed to be more or less soaking up superficial emotional entertainment, while never acknowledging your actual position in the interaction, which struck me as a presumption of inclusion.

Good point. Not necessarily just about work either. I think that betas do tend to resent it when someone assumes they're included in a group where they are not yet included. That being said, if you stick around and are nice and occasionally say something smart, most betas will accept you eventually (excluding cases of specific bias, based on nationality, culture, politics, etc.).

[thePirate]

.I think that betas do tend to resent it when someone assumes they're included in a group where they are not yet included.

lol thats a beta thing?

Im having this outing thing soon, and a guy who I hadnt talked to in a long, long time and who I consider an aquaintance practically blatently asked to join the group of close friends I was planning to go out with, it really really annoyed me. I dont like it when people just invite themselves to things like that. If it's a close friend, it's welcome, but in cases like this where I feel I or the group barely know the person, it seems like that person is trying to weasel their way in. I don't know why but it rubs me the wrong way. If I want you there I'll invite you, or a member of the group will.

IDK though, maybe its related to Fe? the same kinda things annoys some of my alpha friends, although I think they have more of a tolerance for it.

[Gilly]

Sounds mostly like an Aristocratic thing, although I feel like it's probably true of everyone to an extent.

[strrrng]

Good point. Not necessarily just about work either. I think that betas do tend to resent it when someone assumes they're included in a group where they are not yet included. That being said, if you stick around and are nice and occasionally say something smart, most betas will accept you eventually (excluding cases of specific bias, based on nationality, culture, politics, etc.).

Yeah. The most I'll do for someone who's innocuously friendly and somewhat entertaining, is give them crumbs of attention here and there. lol. I don't see the point in wasting energy.

[enigmadream]

Work, I like you. But reading through this thread I have to say that I agree with what strrrng and the others have said.

As for being mean, I certainly can be. Sometimes I do it because I don't want to be vulnerable. Or I may do it because people are rude to me. For example:

OLDER MALE WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER: You know, you've really gained a lot of weight.

TEENAGE ME: You know, if it really bothers you why don't you go over there *points towards the other side of the room* so I can look smaller to you.


I think also do it test potential love interests (usually subconciously). I know that I can be moody and not nice to be around. So I want to know if I can trust that the person will be there even when I'm not the "nice person that they thought I was in the beginning". And if they ever thought that I was this "nice person that they thought I was in the beginning", well they really never got to know me. Then again, I am hard to get to know.

[Gilly]

He did, to SEI. I still think he was probably EII, though.

[Gilly]

SEI (typo in my initial post). Que ridicule.

[Animal]

That was more tongue-in-cheek making fun of all the other type change threads. Honestly, I've grown pretty complacent about my type. If I'm EII than I'm EII. Y'all make Beta seem like a buzzkill anyway. When did Beta start taking itself so seriously? I miss the days of Herzy's penis threads.

[Animal]

>.o

so who are you around here now?

... and hi!

Hi Mimosa. I'm someone who searches his username on the forum from time to time to keep up with all the juicy gossip. (If you mean "Why am I" or "What type am I" the answer is "I have no idea" for either of those questions.)

[silverchris9]

That was more tongue-in-cheek making fun of all the other type change threads. Honestly, I've grown pretty complacent about my type. If I'm EII than I'm EII. Y'all make Beta seem like a buzzkill anyway. When did Beta start taking itself so seriously? I miss the days of Herzy's penis threads.

Hello, Baby. Apparently we're similar. I hope beta isn't a buzzkill at the moment... but yeah, there should be more spontaneous random stupid teenager-y crap on this forum.

"Let everything happen to you: the beauty and the terror.
One has only to keep going. No feeling is final."

"In the far South the sun of autumn is passing
Like Walt Whitman walking along a ruddy shore.
He is singing and chanting the things that are part of him,
The worlds that were and will be, death and day.
Nothing is final, he chants. No man shall see the end.
His beard is of fire and his staff is a leaping flame."

[Animal]

The word "Baby" is pretty common. I have to wade through a lot of search results dealing with actual babies (usually abortion threads) and expressions of (faux-)endearment (U NO IT BABY!!!... usually in Alpha) and song lyric postings to find something dealing with me.

I'm currently job-hunting and so am spending more time than I'd like plopped in front of my computer so I've had some time to catch up with my 16types reading. This forum has really gone downhill. :wink:

[Animal]

Hello, Baby. Apparently we're similar. I hope beta isn't a buzzkill at the moment... but yeah, there should be more spontaneous random stupid teenager-y crap on this forum.

Hi silverchris9. Nice to meet you. Beta... well, strrrng's avatar is apt. "Why so serious?" Back in my day, we didn't take ourselves so seriously talking about aristocracy and feelings and actual Socionics.

"In the far South the sun of autumn is passing
Like Walt Whitman walking along a ruddy shore.
He is singing and chanting the things that are part of him,
The worlds that were and will be, death and day.
Nothing is final, he chants. No man shall see the end.
His beard is of fire and his staff is a leaping flame."

Ah, Wallace Stevens. Good stuff. I understand you're an English major? I just managed to graduate with my B.A. In English without reading a single novel. I'm pretty proud of myself.

[Gilly]

This forum has really gone downhill. :wink:

<3

[Animal]

The form Babylon is the Greek variant of Akkadian Babilu (bāb-ilû, meaning "Gateway of the god(s)", translating Sumerian Ka.dingir.ra). In the Hebrew Bible, the name appears as בבל (Babel), interpreted by Book of Genesis 11:9 to mean "confusion" (of languages), from the verb balbal, "to confuse".

Heh, Babylon it is then!

[Animal]

It's because you & so many others left. :'(

Yeah, I noticed that. Might I entice you into the real world? Speaking of which, over the summer I saw the kids from the D.C. edition of The Real World at Subway one day. At least, I'm pretty sure that was them that I saw.

[Animal]

Yeah, I remember being a lot more emotionally invested in the forum. lol, that girl sounds like... fun. Did she end up meeting her goal?

[Satan]

I wasn't blind to that. . .i recognized that and i felt like you all were ganging up on me!

You'll just have to fight three times as hard to hold your position. And try and take a vantage point. Don't worry, it's only a forum. If you were gone forever it wouldn't really matter.

[redbaron]

Hi Baby! good to see you