The suggestive function (according to von Franz)

[Tallmo]

Developing the suggestive - according to Mare-Louise von Franz (her type is C-LII in my opinion)

Sometimes when reading jungian litterature you can get interesting information on typology. You just have to be careful with the terminology. They usually only pay attention to the base function, so distinguishing only 8 types.

Threre's some advice on how to develop the suggestive function in the book The problem of the puer aeternus, by Marie-Louise von Franz. It is found in chapter 5. In my book pages 99-103.

As far as I can tell Jungians refer to the suggestive function as the "inferior function".

Basically her message is that the "inferior function" (suggestive) is a very delicate thing and one has to approach it on its own terms. (If one wants to actually develop it)

I can't quote everything here, but here are some of the things she says:

It has to do with the inferior function, through which the renewal comes, which has remained childlike and completely naive. It threrefore conveys a new view and experience of life when the worn-out superior function comes to its end. It imparts all those naive pleasures which one has lost in childhood. That is why we have to learn to play again, but on the line fo the forth or inferior function.

The really difficult thing is to turn directly to the inferior function and play there. For this the ego has to give up its control. If you touch your inferior function it decides on the kind of play, you cannot decide on it. The inferior function, just like an obstinate child, will insist that it wants to play at something or other, though you may say that that is not suitable and would not work well.

The ego always has thousands of objections to turning to the inferior side. It is always something very difficult to arrange practically.

I would say that the main thing in getting to the playfulness of the inferior function is to scratch away the pseudo-adaptation with which we all cover the inferior function. The feeling type, for instance, is usually full of school and university theories and images that those are his thoughts. But they are not; they are pseudo-thinking adaptations to cover up the fact that his real thinking is awfully embryonic and naive. The same holds good for the thinking type who has very naive feelings; for instance "I love you, I hate you".

Thinking types are often quite amiable and seem to have balanced feeling reactions, but never trust that!

The essence of play is that it has no meaning and is not useful. I would tell a feeling type to learn by heart what he needs for exams, and not try to think, because he won't be able to do so. He should make pseudo-adaptations, and if a thinking type gets into a situation where he has to behave - say he has to attend a funeral - then he must on no account pull out his personal feelings. He must just behave and do the conventional thing with flowers and condolences; that is the right pseudo-adaptation. To get at his real feeling, the thinking type must find a situation where he can play, and then it will be different.

I think nobody can really develop the inferior function before having first created a temenos, namely, a sacred grove, a hidden place where he can play. The first thing is to find a Robinson Crusoe playground, and then when you have got rid of all onlookers you can begin! As a child, one needed a place and time and no interfering adult audience.

[The Reality Denialist]

I think I have always had playful attitude towards my ego block. I know that I have set up lots of stuff where it can appear totally out of control. On exams I had a habit to set up answers to trigger criticism just to hear from other side.

It was never big deal. I just knew how to get around it. No need to get top grades until it is needed. This is probably one way how extraverted irrationality manifests.

What about suggestive? Being internally irrational? To put it in suggestive Si perspective: What kinds of internal reactions can you create within yourself? To put it in Ni suggestive perspective: Where can you lead your mind and what kind of states it achieves? (yeah, I can be weirdly influential with Ni but it mainly applies to outsiders [job of ignoring, I suppose]. Far easier than Si which I mainly take care by thinking in causal logical relations and rules.)

[Tallmo]

I think I have always had playful attitude towards my ego block. I know that I have set up lots of stuff where it can appear totally out of control. On exams I had a habit to set up answers to trigger criticism just to hear from other side.

It was never big deal. I just knew how to get around it. No need to get top grades until it is needed. This is probably one way how extraverted irrationality manifests.

What about suggestive? Being internally irrational? To put it in suggestive Si perspective: What kinds of internal reactions can you create within yourself? To put it in Ni suggestive perspective: Where can you lead your mind and what kind of states it achieves? (yeah, I can be weirdly influential with Ni but it mainly applies to outsiders [job of ignoring, I suppose]. Far easier than Si which I mainly take care by thinking in causal logical relations and rules.)

I see many ILEs are drawn to sensual stuff, plants, food. I think von Franz perspective is very ambitious. You have to let the suggestive speak for itself, not just pseudo-adaptation, as she puts it. So you can't let the ego decide, instead put oneself in this playful, open-minded state where the suggestive can show itself directly. And then you can follow it. I think this is probably very difficult, might require a life crisis or something. Maybe it's not even desirable before one has lived out the ego function for decades and that way of life has come to an end.

[The Reality Denialist]

You can still open yourself while you are not ever able to open doors for true creative usage. Some bad sensory experiences made really cautious, categorical etc. However I have made progress by trying to consciously go past them.

That being said: I have some troubles why people tend to categorize food into categories like sweet and salty. I suppose it is important to have at least this much variety.

[Myst]

This idea about the temenos is really good. Thanks for the post, good overall.

[squark]

and not try to think, because he won't be able to do so.

lol, oh dear.

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The advice in general sounds similar to something I read regarding getting in touch with your muse (creative unconscious) and letting it out to play. I think they are similar ideas.

[Tallmo]

and not try to think, because he won't be able to do so.

lol, oh dear.

It actually took me a long time to understand that there are people who can make really smart and far reaching conclusions on what they have read. So that they can learn faster and with less effort. I was always memorizing everything.

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The advice in general sounds similar to something I read regarding getting in touch with your muse (creative unconscious) and letting it out to play. I think they are similar ideas.

You mean the "Anima"?

The Anima is "inspiration" in a man. The one who seduces him into life. One has to listen carefully what that inner voice is whispering and realize that it is real and then try to do it. Then listen again and do what it is saying. But there are many things said about the Anima.

[Myst]

The Anima is "inspiration" in a man. The one who seduces him into life. One has to listen carefully what that inner voice is whispering and realize that it is real and then try to do it. Then listen again and do what it is saying. But there are many things said about the Anima.

This makes sense. How do you try to do it though when it seems pretty unclear?

[squark]

It actually took me a long time to understand that there are people who can make really smart and far reaching conclusions on what they have read. So that they can learn faster and with less effort. I was always memorizing everything.

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You mean the "Anima"?

The Anima is "inspiration" in a man. The one who seduces him into life. One has to listen carefully what that inner voice is whispering and realize that it is real and then try to do it. Then listen again and do what it is saying. But there are many things said about the Anima.

The small amount I read about the muse it was describing the creative/imaginative side of your brain, but this may just be another name or perspective on the same kind of concept. They share a thread of reaching an unconscious/dormant/hidden part of oneself and bringing it out.

[Tallmo]

This makes sense. How do you try to do it though when it seems pretty unclear?

Have you had these moments when you feel that there is unlived life that you still need to live? That feeling is the anima. It usually happens to me when i am in a new environment and get pulled out of my daily routines. Then one just has to take that feeling seriously and do what you need to do. Maybe it is a new relationship or an adventure or somthing like that.

[Myst]

Have you had these moments when you feel that there is unlived life that you still need to live? That feeling is the anima. It usually happens to me when i am in a new environment and get pulled out of my daily routines. Then one just has to take that feeling seriously and do what you need to do. Maybe it is a new relationship or an adventure or somthing like that.

Is that the Ne suggestive for you?

The unlived life thing in some aspects is familiar, yes, I could totally connect this to your anima/animus idea, but it's not really to do with simply changing up daily routines or do adventures or whatever new thing in my case. But then I'm not Ne suggestive either.

The small amount I read about the muse it was describing the creative/imaginative side of your brain, but this may just be another name or perspective on the same kind of concept. They share a thread of reaching an unconscious/dormant/hidden part of oneself and bringing it out.

Do you have a link to this by any chance?

[Tallmo]

Is that the Ne suggestive for you?

The unlived life thing in some aspects is familiar, yes, I could totally connect this to your anima/animus idea, but it's not really to do with simply changing up daily routines or do adventures or whatever new thing in my case. But then I'm not Ne suggestive either.

Anima is simply what draws a man into life. There has to be some psychic force that pulls you out into life, because otherwise you would just stay at home, not engaging in much. Most men have a healthy anima and they are engaged in projects, people, work. People with weak anima become spectators or afraid of life. To change routines or environment can make one sensitive to inner dispositions. If a person is only living by routine, then breaking that can make underlying psychic experiences clearer. But that's just one example of a method that might work.

I don't think it's only suggestive Ne in me. It's such a broad human thing.

[Myst]

Anima is simply what draws a man into life. There has to be some psychic force that pulls you out into life, because otherwise you would just stay at home, not engaging in much. Most men have a healthy anima and they are engaged in projects, people, work. People with weak anima become spectators or afraid of life. To change routines or environment can make one sensitive to inner dispositions. If a person is only living by routine, then breaking that can make underlying psychic experiences clearer. But that's just one example of a method that might work.

That makes sense, though I wonder if this is biased by an introvert describing it. (Where I'm an introvert myself, so of course I would relate readily...) How does an introverted inferior function pull the person (an extravert) OUT into life?

I don't think it's only suggestive Ne in me. It's such a broad human thing.

I don't know about how broad a human thing it is. Btw, I didn't mean to say it can only be Ne DS, just that in your case it could be.

I just recently talked to someone about this as I was commenting on an article the person linked to me, let me quote,

[10:05 AM] Myst: "While having a daily routine will help you stay organized and productive, it can also start to feel tiresome after awhile, and it's easy to stop trying new things. Googler Matt Cutts says you can escape that by trying
something new—even something small—for 30 days."
[10:05 AM] Myst: what's the point? I don't enjoy that
[10:05 AM] Myst: if done with someone who makes it fun then sure
[10:06 AM] Myst: but I seem to work the opposite to this otherwise, routine is never tiresome, trying some new thing just to "shake it up" is what would be tiresome

So for me, it's more the Fe that makes it have a point. I definitely find I can easily go and do new things with people where the Fe dynamics is going really well becase then they'll just involve me in the Fe aspect of the situation. That's all that's needed for me to see a point to going and doing that whatever new thing. Or not even a new thing, again, the point isn't that it's new or not.

So then I wondered as to how common this is because the article was taking it for granted that the routine is going to be tiresome without trying new stuff just for the sake of newness and I noticed this assumption doesn't work for me. It probably helps that I'm not too focused on the routine itself, it's automatic to me, I'm more task focused than directly routine focused if that makes sense. So it doesn't become tiresome.

I dunno how strongly type related this is, it's definitely something that's always been consistently like this for me. This doesn't mean I cannot do new things but again, it's not because of the newness that I do it, there's some other point, I'm usually going to be focused on some goal or it's the Fe stuff as above.

[persimmonism]

How do you play with inferior Se?
I don't have a clue of what this might entail.

[Tallmo]

How do you play with inferior Se?
I don't have a clue of what this might entail.

Von Franz talks about a client. She was an Ni type. She was impressed by a lecture on Greek philosophy by von Franz. So she asked von Franz to give her private lessons. They met but after awhile she said that she has to do this her own way. She cannot learn Greek philosophy unless she knows about the Greeks and their country. So she should draw a map of Greece. Then the map became her main project, coloring it etc, and she kept doing this for months.

So I guess just getting in touch with concrete reality somehow. Could probably be anything and it depends on the interests of the person.

You can read it in "Lectures on Jung's typology", by von Franz / Hillman. The book is also online. Chapter on Ni starts at page 40. There's also other stuff about Ni and the problem with inferior Se that you might find interesting.