Comparisons between the Astrology, Zodiac, Socionics, MBTI, Alchemy, Numerology and Taoism

[Capitalist Pig]

Yeah, I'm actually surprised at how many people are saying their Socionics type matches these.

For the record, astrology is bullshit and any correlations are merely coincidence.


Also, Socionics doesn't exist.

[munenori2]

I'm a Taurus with a lot of Aries so apparently I'm supposed to be some kind of endlessly energetic Te god.

[golden]

Also, Socionics doesn't exist.

Ha, I was arriving at that conclusion myself. And the more I consider Socionics, the more I see that I don't exist, either. Socioncs = erasure.

[FDG]

If "real" ("vedic", I suppose) astrological sings were to be used, I'd be a Gemini, which would perfectly fit my personality. If "normal" astrological sings are used, though, I'm a Cancer, which couldn't be further from how I am.

[marooned]

I can't remember most of my musings about astrology like five plus years ago when I was more interested in it, but anyway I do remember relating a lot of the emotional qualities of Cancer, and both my moon and sun are supposedly in Cancer. I generally relate to most Cancer descriptions until they start discussing cooking, mother fixations and banking or stocks. But I tend to see these as superficial things in any description that are just scattered on top of the broader essence of cancer as a concept and so I don't mind just ignoring them or taking things more metaphorically with rationalizations like "it's unwise to get that literal about an astrological sign."

Things I relate to:
--The emotional moodiness, which I and others have noticed. Also my moodiness tends to pass noticeably and be rather apparent to others even if I'm not actually aware of how apparent it is. Going through a wide variety of emotions in a comparatively short amount of time. Being very wrapped up in my feelings.
--The outer coldness around people I don't know very well and apparent outward insensitivity (due to the coldness).
--The whole hiding in my shell thing and closing off the outside world for long periods of time if I'm feeling wounded.
--Being secretive.
--Calculated actions... the things I say and do and when I say and do them and who to if focused on results are carefully arranged so as to best get the result I'm aiming for (or when I don't know exactly what I want, but know the vicinity of it which is more typical, it's aimed for the vicinity)... this aspect of me is highly manipulative (manipulating outcomes and often doing so without anyone noticing)
--Side-stepping and going around things in subtle ways rather than taking a more barging-through-it-direct approach. This doesn't mean "passive-aggressive" but more relates to strategics
--Tending to observe far more than actually do anything
--Tendency to sometimes be snappy and say cutting remarks to others... this is generally provoked by others as I see it and is an attempt to defend myself (lashing out when cornered)... I probably tend to see others as getting on my case more than perhaps they actually are... and sometimes I don't know when I should be trying to defend myself in my fears they'll walk all over me...
--Being a very emotional person who's often wrapped up in my feelings and inner world sometimes in a completely self-absorbed way where I notice nothing outside of me
--Having a huge inwardly sentimental focus on devotion and a "soul mate" or something, even though I don't really act on it... Taking romantic relationships and monogamy very seriously and being very hesitant to get into such a relationship because of how bad it will hurt when it ends... I wouldn't be able to just move on and it would take a long time to get over it. Inner tendencies towards jealousy and possessiveness (I could relate this also to Venus in Leo), probably more so than I want to admit. But I would want the person I'm with to have those tendencies as well, preferably even more so without being afraid of them because this would feel more secure.
--Getting attached
--Feelings of being protective towards those important to me. (Although I'm also afraid of being a coward.)
--Finding humor in most situations... Although my worry with my sense of humor is that I don't ever mean for anyone to think I'm "laughing at them" as it's usually more that I find a lot of situations amusing and I'm not trying to be disrespectful.
--Insecurity regarding how others see me, insecurity in relationships (at least at first), doubting
--Spending a lot of time reflecting over the past and memories
--the need for safety and security as being more important than say adventure, although there is a sense of adventure which I can attribute to my Sagittarius ascendant, of course.
--Somewhat to the inner sense of compassion... but this is mixed with how cold I am outside often... Some descriptions I think talk about Cancer as being some sort of inner healer of others and that I don't really relate to and seem to find repulsive (often I'm wary of people who identify themselves as healers because I think they just harass people usually)... I'm really undecided on most of this aspect.
--being perceived as rather innocent or childlike often
--(not related to cancer, but astrology in general) Lacking Earth qualities (my chart is just about devoid of planets in Earth signs and there's too much Air left unbalanced by Earth.

Things I don't relate to:
--The Cancer maintaining a kitchen where no burner is left unoccupied, constantly cooking wonderful foods with wonderful scents wafting from the oven.
--The Cancer's quest to make as much money as possible, particularly moving up the ladder in a bank or some other financial institution.
--The mystical, magical, special, mysterious, super enigmatic moon child always staring at the moon and flowing with its phases hanging out on the beach staring at the sand between his/her toes and saying poetic statements before frolicking away into the ocean to thank god never be heard from again.
--Ongoing fantasies about being in the womb again (the mother fixation) or of being a Mother to All, possibly eager to have 9-12 children, being nurturing, enjoying the company of children (I'm actually kind of afraid of children for some reason)

I can't remember anything else off the top of my head. Also it's entirely ignoring the all-important Aspects in one's chart which can turn everything upside down and I never got around to actually carefully looking into all of mine, though I think there were several problems with them that I can get myself to relate to as well (the problem with astrology is I'm sure I can relate to most of it without too much effort even if it wasn't even my chart). I wanted to actually for my own amusement continue looking into my aspects because I was getting the impression that my planets were forming alliances against each other... mainly Jupiter and Saturn were being assholes to Mercury putting an excessive amount of pressure on it with the squares. There was much more to it than this, but I don't remember. I saw it this way because my Mercury is in Gemini but yet all the great things that should go along with this (it's a good position for Mercury) don't really happen and this is largely because although Mercury has a good relationship (either trine or sextile) with Mars, it has very bad relationships with both Jupiter and maybe Saturn (squares) and Jupiter at least was in a very strong position as well (oh I remember, Jupiter according to something or other is technically the "ruler of my chart"). Also my Sun was largely un-aspected and I was beginning to see it as thinking it's "above-it-all" and generally perceiving my Sun as a "bitter bitch" who wants nothing to do with the rest of the planets. Anyway this would somewhat weaken the Sun's influence making it less direct perhaps. I just don't remember the rest of the "drama" of my chart (I saw it as fraught with "unhealthy" interplanetary relationships) I was seeing but I found it incredibly applicable to me (of course). I think my Moon had good relationships with several planets and I relate to the Moon more anyway (I relate more to myself as an emotional being).

Anyway I don't know what type I'd associate Cancer most with, if any. I probably sort of see it as Fe creative ish. I suppose you could look at the "still waters run deep" side of Cancer and then associate it with Fi. Anyway I probably just don't really want to associate it with anything.

[Absurd]

star signs seem to correlate with socionics types very well. Of course, you have to choose your correct star sign. It's ridiculous to find it by looking at your date of birth...

What did you do with Hitta ?

[Ave]

What did you do with Hitta ?

They put him in a public cage. People throw bananas at him.

[Absurd]

They put him in a public cage. People throw bananas at him.

I thought he swallowed him or something, but the cage part could work as well. You know, zodiac signs, gods and goddesses.

EDIT: But seriously, if JohnDo is correct by saying what he said about choosing the right zodiac sign he, actually, may be right. He came to the same conclusion as Hitta, hence my comment pertaining Hitta. Heh. Interesting.

[crazedrat]

It doesn't correlate to the types. You can't correlate everything. I have mostly taurus / aries / gemini, 1 planet in sagitarrius / scorpio. I have no pisces but I'm INFp.

[Aiss]

About number of people for whom it works: look for "are you left-handed" or similar polls on the internet. They usually show much bigger left-handed people ratio than there is in society. That's because people who are in minority on some issue are far more likely to notice it in the first place. Similarly, I'd expect people for whom it works to be more likely to post it than those for whom it doesn't.

I'm a Leo by birth. By this correlation, I'd be a Capricorn. Neither fits me.

Astrology...

[Absurd]

I know. I just find it ironic. I was having some fun on a horoscope board before registering here. Guess I never left

[Gilly]

Works on me
12/17

[Pookie]

I often find myself Synthesizing components of different logical structures. In attempt at trying to make a cohesive, sound, and accurate cross-referencial framework that i can rely on for when one system doesnt encompass enough of the big picture. I see alot of people do this with Enneagram and Sociotype, to a lesser extent. I'm sure this is because of my reliance upon Ni+Ti+Fe, but if my abstractness and subjectiveness become too much, my apologies.

So, I have a Big 'ol Astrology book, and reading that spurred me into reading about MBTI, and eventually Socionics. And the thing i learned is that all of the twelve signs are basically a synthesis of meshing attributes. But for my sanity, i'll focus on only one of the attributes. The Elements: Fire, Air, Water, Earth.

A quick summation via the books outline:
Fire: Movement & Action
Earth: Practicality & Substance
Air: Intellectualism & Social Ettiquete
Water: Feelings & Instinct

Random Qualities i attach to the symbols:
Fire: Energy, Consuming
Earth: Firm, Grounded
Air: Whispy, Detached
Water: Pressurized, Oscillating

Designations of Cool i attach to the symbols:
Fire: Edgy
Earth: Down to Earth
Air: Abstract
Water: Deep

Here's my attempt to quantify the Information Elements with Astrological Elementals in a logical structure that makes sense, and strips away as much of the bullshit as one can from Astrology.

Water: Ne + Fe
Fire: Se + Te
Earth: Si + Ti
Air: Ni + Fi


Air + Fire / Water + Earth

Air and Fire, the Masculine signs, are supposed to compliment each other. Air fanning the flames(Ni+Se), or fueling Fiery explosions in the sky. Fire burns up and incites Air's latent potential, or it can make new productive pursuits by focusing the two's energy on something beneficial. Ni+Se/Fi+Te

Water and Earth, the feminine signs, are also supposed to compliment each. Water washes over and erodes the tough exterior, or it can catalyze unexpected growth. Earth serves as a solid container for water to grow upon its foundations, or it can steer the flow of travel and give water direction. Ne+Si/Fe+Ti
*Complimentary Relations*


Air + Earth / Water + Fire

Air and Earth, are characterized by a Mutual Seperation. Air and Earth have two entirely different domains, though at ground level they will cross-paths. The ways of life are generally different and the two look for opposite elements to team up with. Air and Earth don't really encroach on each other. But on that ground level, if one is too firm or the other too pushy, they can stir up trouble with each other. However, they also can find common ground in the Si+Fi and Ni+Ti dynamics, metaphorically a calm flowing wind in the day to day ground bustle that makes life more pleasant or possibly a high altitude mountain that enjoys the fierce winds and congregates with the wind on the ways of the world below it. The two can have Introverted Squabbles and/or maintain a solid quo of good relations at a convenient distance.

Water and Fire, very similar. The two can intersect(volcanism, arson) but generally they stay and thrive in seperate area's of life. They benefit from opposite elements as well. However, differing from Air and Earth, Water and Fire can both hurt each other/ Fire can boil and evaporate water. Water can douce Fire. I think Water and Fire are more volatile because they go outwards more and thus are more likely to encroach on each other. They are the Catalysts whereas A/E are the containers. But also, there can be common ground found in the Se+Fe and Ne+Te dynamics, metaphorically making magma that can alter any substance. The two can have Extroverted Conflicts and/or incite fantastic change if they dont cross each other's agenda.
*Super-Ego/Conflicting*


Air + Water / Fire + Earth

*For any (N/S/T/F)e element in the conscious ego, there is a (N/S/T/F)i element in the subconscious Id, of the corresponding letter*
Air and Water, In both the ocean and the sky, you will find a bit of Air or Water in the other. Similar to how the Ego and ID are linked. Air and Water can get along just fine(If they're both P's or both J's) due to the order of their priorities, and agree with each other. All the while not being able to work with each other effectively due to differing quadra values(a stable of extinguishment relations). Or the two can mix in a manner that strips one away from it's comfort zone(Water evaporating into the sky away from water, or Air being submerged by sealife down into the depths). This is a harsher, grinding, argumentative, and growth enducing relationship(Undue suffering creates strength of character - MLK Jr). Air and water can cause hurricanes and storms and a whole bunch of shit that fucks up everything, but the bonus can be worth the hardship. I think Air can benefit from being Submerged in water, and acquire a depth to their Abstractions. Water can benefit from evaporating into a cloud, spreading their watery deepness on lands they may never have reached if it wasnt for the abstract clouds. This also fits into the fact that Quasi's have Creative functions where the other's Ignoring function is, and thus can learn from each other. Also they have Base functions where the other's Demonstrative function is, and that can lead to heated arguments when both peoples most impervious function to doubt(base) points at the inadequacy of the other person's demonstrative. The demonstrative, when doubted, is a huge nerve of duress as even though it's quite strong, It's unvalued and the other who values that function can easily pick holes in the other's use of it. Very verbose i know, but Imagine both people doing this(Hurricanes)

Earth and Fire, fire and earth have a similar relationship. Fire usually starts by consuming earthy materials and feeds off of what is, before it can use its catalyzing energy to change anything. Earth is in the shapes and places that it is due to the Fire in the core, moving it and shaping it from within. So there's also the Ego-ID subconscious conflict thats applicable to these elements. Sometimes Fire breaks out and chars a forest to shit, and Earth hates that because it gets burned. But those ashes also serve as fantastic manure and cause the new tree's to grow quicker and into a healthier forest. Earth and Water make the plants to begin with, but sometimes those plants are weeds and they suck, in which case it's necassary that the Fire burns that shit down so that Earth can have some healthier plants. And the same applies to Air + Fire on the opposite side. Air needs Fire in order to "make something of itself" but sometimes it's a reckless, stupid, asshole of an explosion. And in those cases its good that water comes in, douces the explosion, and makes Air think a little more responsibly.
*Quasi - Extinguishment*


Even though Si/Ni, Te/Fe, etc... relations are conflicting and unpleasant, i feel as though the Si/Se, Te/Ti, etc... relations can leave a bigger sting. The Si/Ni(just choosing one for short, but applying to all) conflicts can be avoided, and generally dismissed even if they hit your sore spot. One can hit your Te polr, and you can shrug it off, because "fuck Te, i dont like that shit anyway", not to mention how hard it is to put in work and improve in that area. But a Si/Se conflict coming from quasi, is way harder to shrug off. Because it's still something you usually will percieve as a strengh, so when someone picks a hole in it and deems it not-up-to-par, the fall is greater because. Insecurities about one's strengths are easier to defend and get emotionally involved in. But also, because it's a critique to a strength, it's an area that can be worked on easier. And Essentially, i believe working on your ID not only balances yourself out in a needed area, but it also helps you develop in a manner that makes you less susceptible to aggravation when you take a hit to your Polr. You may still be shut-down when it gets hit, but the increased awareness/percieved value of your own demonstrative subsequently allows the value from that Polr hit to be absorbed. You see the point, even if you don't agree. You're neutral, instead of up in arms.

And for those reasons, i believe Air+Fire/Water+Earth to be the best for intimate relationships and close friendships, and the worst for parents/kids. I believe Air+Earth/Water+Fire to be the best for acquaintances in the workplace and siblings, but the worst for close relations of all sorts. And lastly, i believe Air+Water/Earth+Fire to be the best for Parenting Children but the worst for relationships.

I feel all these are accurate in the sense that they stay accurate to both systems. If you have any criticisms, expansions, inconsistencies, or alternatives to this attempt at correlating Astrology-Elements and Information-Elements, leave a response. It's really the reason im making the thread. I'm trying to fine tune this so that it makes sense, on an objective level. Even though it's all Subjective hoo-hah. Also, if anything isn't clear or apparent, quote it in the response and ill try to address how i came to that conclusion or what i'm really trying say by those words.


Thank you if you read it, i know it was long.

[Gravolez]

I lol'd

You have not stripped enough of the astrology bullshit.

[Absurd]

Well, this place wouldn't be the same place without astrology...

[marooned]

he posted a picture of peeing on the moon... he posted a picture of peeing on the moon... peeing on the moon.

[marooned]

Oh dear: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...cs-and-Alchemy

[Absurd]

he posted a picture of peeing on the moon... he posted a picture of peeing on the moon... peeing on the moon.

That's the Sun, actually.

link

That's something hitta would write.

This next chart shows how the 36 strategems from China [these are based upon the Tao] relate to socionics types through the signs of the zodiac.

[wacey]

Being that socionics developed outside of acadamia (as per explanation on the front page of this site), I think we must all confess that perhaps the entire socionics uiniverse is actually one big fallacy. A BIG FAT LIE. Nothing in science is certain without huge amounts of study, experimentaion, peer review, relicatable results, and undenieble proof. Maybe one day, hundreds of years from now, socionics with be regarded with as much incredulity and sceptism by any sane person, as say astrology is considered in this day and age.

Great job on comparing socionics and astrology, though. I can see the amount of thought and effort you put into the post.