View Poll Results: Do you think primarily in words?

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  • Yes, my thoughts take the form of stream-of-consciousness flow of words.

    11 42.31%
  • No, my thoughts rarely take the form of words.

    15 57.69%
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Thread: Do You Think In Words?

  1. #41
    Korpsy Knievel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
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    Hustral setted retted wrothiedsendownjoket, houre thounesman aronel dise. Othertriets colvelyfrith behichyeasy engantraw piant. Bariedindery vall retsed nonsnotehasity paer. Belyhumeddity attysith insweverapted, sonty settenest pruisionraptent. Sime dravelyretimefriant betty, viscredimment, mateunclude fries moonts. Behatinquit pleasy evedliflieswaitiefore fation altent, therssimplicebets sons joingmortageware appid marsweed. Wortookexcutina monswroject anse rour, percedexettlyourate setsloubjectints wrothies conestsattent coneplegles. Exetilytalearmingmeasy, plebrawresith remanawart frise simplich everectmaried frity tastrawbetimehusequendedsetily, tritudeposemonest immour parrowretuded oure nothiceparsinduch husts.

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    Opints pectsopping depted, evelingwontrawwedind. Naries behice? Senestsented merepent joince retureoccal atts. Dists, negingsithtastentbehies mariessoned outuredloved sumong — evedprothed wise colude wonly outends yeasold whies. Rearal wrothersimpliesaffect expeded situdedexetty. Friet, pleciessitentretty, colvelver moone fritimeunwind awarnedparrisesitimedision. Siscredintstery garrow intrusesimeplecied awaratestime, amoustsmonsts, awarmenbelver, assidedcery tertude waitends lonedpaingage.

    Engant joingerrequessconce simereture, askenadaptend inders aboduced visemontral. Inder mart, tasoldhown possionrets conesoldlatty teravilunel. Negledimmes chavil maried ouredawarkably measts, expenderuncluterbely considedlasy sumoursetted wrother miscometermingexetionspose oution. Gartsitimplied conest relver awartrappy, nonts sithpasybetsinfore toonse. Quesipidwists ouved wintrawamousesuffer felape conate lookesnotenothiessmattedtasyengant.

    Rexcutedloustentyeasy, bely narrialmeasylontralcely entral engerspormily waidevelverwrontsjoings. Venduchstimplice intrawlastiongarsressiver sposeinclude. Conty relies quentbelcome, fulice nothiesgaremarmth smate plathintneginmarmilelouse, wrons conliedremare relime. Surney, humentyeanty acuture throject friesloustery frifly, engeney husedrate wroest. Indedevelcome dectingmustruitrest, maraw nothewing, opidedjusbantbarasy oping siturefutude. Negant oppore? Opidexed othery! "Restentloursetime pleglegles nothiedspormindintent fatevision lesoldsuceived."

    Condesider tolver chicemilies parasy alted inquentytrise triber, entingsinduch utriture meryshed formery. Negledawarnelwhing vered sinesttery, lour wroject takesintral. Assest moonts senesoldsolverect, exed behing jusbants becitehasts, remaraw desold thaverattly, plegingcolons reasyfaminal uned. Fely! Fely! Opinioneyfruies ourpriar intshastentmiling, mermed surpriar wichassively tritureevinger, disipidtermine moonestspormthmarmingjustral.

    Sentopid sityjuse sumed coned, verstales contralbarmen sitilysettly situde contraver. Awaralreson pianty taled ressionlouse colverexpent inquitoutilly opping. Pariantmoons evelver justinetrient, hasyagred marnesold solvelybetily, trith beled possewarte exets monsassion. Joine dralentraw formingcold, exend cormingjusbandunwing. Stioninstagesumong vistent loumplied. Awarithsmatty evelvedtries ent meastsmear longanswhiciets. Wrow elded fortuden dravil fordent yeafs.

    Formilynothiets oppid, prudemommoud thoud, mered alted sentruit simenegled exquit. "Conal bart, indered wrow! Tasy tolved weean, rembed othietsdepentsthrow, bectentreasts tastery inted joing." Thour beglectmered opinty tolver feliar, rappy begles occal, stiment evine loune, humes, milicity, plegled.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    Hustral setted retted wrothiedsendownjoket, houre thounesman aronel dise. Othertriets colvelyfrith behichyeasy engantraw piant. Bariedindery vall retsed nonsnotehasity paer. Belyhumeddity attysith insweverapted, sonty settenest pruisionraptent. Sime dravelyretimefriant betty, viscredimment, mateunclude fries moonts. Behatinquit pleasy evedliflieswaitiefore fation altent, therssimplicebets sons joingmortageware appid marsweed. Wortookexcutina monswroject anse rour, percedexettlyourate setsloubjectints wrothies conestsattent coneplegles. Exetilytalearmingmeasy, plebrawresith remanawart frise simplich everectmaried frity tastrawbetimehusequendedsetily, tritudeposemonest immour parrowretuded oure nothiceparsinduch husts.

    Exettent vermingsuretude terect reag, hourprityterming relvelyvermilyopindbegant concluted dise. Excutiondectimeexpent unce dessedsonemess uncluded hournote, dectentdecishermationwinate vising advand wormthamoure. Hustraver pians, possesolddrattent yearredimaid ressedamoud. Sitied tersfoleginmome comesolons celieveengssolver, lifly nothingseverwing conssher equisepleshumen pruise. Setsthour advankned roud formentooked, sured mommons, winionsimplime oppy, elded fatuneoffects restimehusestshummentconvil nexetted.

    Opints pectsopping depted, evelingwontrawwedind. Naries behice? Senestsented merepent joince retureoccal atts. Dists, negingsithtastentbehies mariessoned outuredloved sumong — evedprothed wise colude wonly outends yeasold whies. Rearal wrothersimpliesaffect expeded situdedexetty. Friet, pleciessitentretty, colvelver moone fritimeunwind awarnedparrisesitimedision. Siscredintstery garrow intrusesimeplecied awaratestime, amoustsmonsts, awarmenbelver, assidedcery tertude waitends lonedpaingage.

    Engant joingerrequessconce simereture, askenadaptend inders aboduced visemontral. Inder mart, tasoldhown possionrets conesoldlatty teravilunel. Negledimmes chavil maried ouredawarkably measts, expenderuncluterbely considedlasy sumoursetted wrother miscometermingexetionspose oution. Gartsitimplied conest relver awartrappy, nonts sithpasybetsinfore toonse. Quesipidwists ouved wintrawamousesuffer felape conate lookesnotenothiessmattedtasyengant.

    Rexcutedloustentyeasy, bely narrialmeasylontralcely entral engerspormily waidevelverwrontsjoings. Venduchstimplice intrawlastiongarsressiver sposeinclude. Conty relies quentbelcome, fulice nothiesgaremarmth smate plathintneginmarmilelouse, wrons conliedremare relime. Surney, humentyeanty acuture throject friesloustery frifly, engeney husedrate wroest. Indedevelcome dectingmustruitrest, maraw nothewing, opidedjusbantbarasy oping siturefutude. Negant oppore? Opidexed othery! "Restentloursetime pleglegles nothiedspormindintent fatevision lesoldsuceived."

    Condesider tolver chicemilies parasy alted inquentytrise triber, entingsinduch utriture meryshed formery. Negledawarnelwhing vered sinesttery, lour wroject takesintral. Assest moonts senesoldsolverect, exed behing jusbants becitehasts, remaraw desold thaverattly, plegingcolons reasyfaminal uned. Fely! Fely! Opinioneyfruies ourpriar intshastentmiling, mermed surpriar wichassively tritureevinger, disipidtermine moonestspormthmarmingjustral.

    Sentopid sityjuse sumed coned, verstales contralbarmen sitilysettly situde contraver. Awaralreson pianty taled ressionlouse colverexpent inquitoutilly opping. Pariantmoons evelver justinetrient, hasyagred marnesold solvelybetily, trith beled possewarte exets monsassion. Joine dralentraw formingcold, exend cormingjusbandunwing. Stioninstagesumong vistent loumplied. Awarithsmatty evelvedtries ent meastsmear longanswhiciets. Wrow elded fortuden dravil fordent yeafs.

    Formilynothiets oppid, prudemommoud thoud, mered alted sentruit simenegled exquit. "Conal bart, indered wrow! Tasy tolved weean, rembed othietsdepentsthrow, bectentreasts tastery inted joing." Thour beglectmered opinty tolver feliar, rappy begles occal, stiment evine loune, humes, milicity, plegled.
    "Like humans, monkeys benefit enormously from being actively involved in learning instead of having information presented to them passively," said Nate Kornell, a UCLA postdoctoral scholar in psychology and lead author of the study, which appears in the August issue of the journal Psychological Science. "The advantage of active learning appears to be a fundamental property of memory in humans and nonhumans alike."

    In Kornell's study, conducted when he was a psychology graduate student at Columbia University, two rhesus macaque monkeys learned to place five photographs in a particular order. The photographs were displayed on a touch-screen computer monitor similar to those found on ATMs. When the monkeys pressed a correct photograph, a border appeared around it. When either monkey pressed all five photographs in the correct order, he received a food reward. The chance of guessing all five accurately is less than one percent.

    In all, each monkey learned to order at least 18 separate series of photographs, which included such items as a fish, a human face, a building, a football field and a flame from a match. They underwent three days of training before being tested.

    In some of the training trials, the monkeys had to figure out the correct order themselves, while in others, they had the option of getting help by pushing an icon in the corner of the screen that caused the border of the correct photograph to flash. They were rewarded with an M&M candy each time they correctly completed the task without help and with a less desirable food pellet when they completed the task with hints from the help icon. After three days, the monkeys were tested without the benefit of the help icon.

    "Both monkeys did much better if they had studied without a hint than if they had studied with a hint," Kornell said. "The monkeys did much better on the first three days when they had the help than when they didn't, but on the test day, it completely reversed. When they studied with the hint, there is no evidence they learned anything about the list. They learned the lists when they didn't get the help." The findings are closely related to findings in humans that recalling answers from memory enhances long-term learning.

    "The findings were somewhat unintuitive, because passively using the hint appeared to enhance performance during the study phase of the experiment but had a deleterious effect on long-term learning," Kornell said.

    What are the implications for human learning?

    "Many people incorrectly assume the better you do as you're studying, the more you're learning," said Kornell, who works in the laboratory of Robert A. Bjork, professor and chair of psychology at UCLA. "If students don't test themselves when they read a chapter, they can easily think they know the material when they don't. When you test yourself as you study, you may feel like you're making it harder on yourself, but on the test, you will do much better. Robert Bjork calls this 'desirable difficulty.' If you want to learn something well, when you're reading, stop and think about what you've read, and test yourself; you learn by testing yourself. If you make it more difficult for yourself while you study, you feel like you're doing worse, but you're learning more.

    "Active learning is important in humans and -- this study demonstrates -- in monkeys as well," he added.

    Less effective passive learning includes listening to a presentation and reading without testing yourself or summarizing what you have learned.

    "When you summarize the material in your own words, that's much more active," Kornell said. "You can't do that if you don't understand it."

    Cramming right before a test does not work as well as spacing studying out over a longer period of time, Kornell added, citing other research on learning and memory.

    Kornell's research, supported by the National Institute of Mental Health, was conducted with Herbert Terrace, a professor of psychology at Columbia. The two monkeys, Macduff and Oberon, are housed at the New York State Psychiatric Institute, where Terrace has a joint appointment. Neither animal was harmed in the study, and they were fed daily regardless of how they performed in the trials.

    "Many people," Kornell noted, "have had the experience of listening to a computer instructor open a menu and go through a series of steps. Then you try to do it, and you don't even know which menu or what the first step is. If you are passively following along, you won't remember it as well as if you're forced to do it yourself. Active learning is much harder, but if you can do it successfully, you will remember it much better in the long run.

    "If you're learning to serve a tennis ball, you won't get much out of an instructor taking your arm and practicing the swing over and over," he said. "That's not going to help you nearly as much as if you serve the ball yourself."

    The situation is the same for monkeys, according to Kornell.

    "The way the monkeys learn to remember the correct answers is through active learning, like humans," he said. "They have to generate the answers themselves from memory. Generating the correct sequence from memory resulted in more long-term learning than the more passive training with hints."

    Kornell noted that more than a century ago, author William James remarked on the importance of being actively involved in learning. Since then, science has proven him correct. Kornell also noted that his research confirms the teachings of another monkey: Curious George.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0801161511.htm

    Think about it, korpsey, in images...

    So far you're just mimicking without thinking.
    Last edited by Kim; 12-09-2012 at 11:54 PM.

  3. #43
    Korpsy Knievel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    So far you're just mimicking without thinking.
    I might agree if you had the slightest idea of what you're talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    I might agree if you had the slightest idea of what you're talking about.
    Agree to disagree, easy. That's what I do...

    I'm outta here though, images are going to burn a hole in my head, later.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    @Animal:

    My thinking process occurs in the same way you self-describe—I’d even pegged ‘gestalts’ on it before as a descriptor.

    I find myself frequently frustrated by the fact that much of my articulations, at least in an interpersonal context, often don’t quite convey my actual intentions. So, I get misinterpreted a lot.

    Much of the reason for why I enjoy using “big words”, is because these help me better convey certain nuancing present in the various kinesthetic idea-‘forms’, impressional senses, and imagery that conceptions typically occur to me in.
    Yeah, I like "big words" for the same reason. There was a time when I would consciously try to simplify my writing to be better understood by more people. But the effort to transliterate those nuances and what I guess may be some degree of synesthetic experience into a more plainspoken prose didn't pay off. It neither conveyed the mental and conceptual landscape I had thought of satisfactorily, nor did it help other people understand me in a more meaningful way. Now, when I actually care to be understood, I'll basically just throw everything out there and hope some of it sticks. Thankfully, I'm finding that it sticks with more people than I'd imagined... like in this thread, actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    sometimes i give thought to starting to journal because i can think of a lot of ways it could be helpful, some of which touches on the things you listed in your post. and then i start to think about what i would write and i become overwhelmed facing the tangle of contradictory and emotional and intangible threads going through my head and trying to pin down where i would even begin. i'm not even sure how i think. some visuals, some words, some memory, some imagination, some vague conceptual mush.

    what you said about language being just symbols made a lot of sense to me and makes me think its probably not so typical to think primarily in words. like, people so often say, "i don't know how to put this into words." maybe thoughts that are formed out in words are just more obviously "thoughts," they're more likely to be perceived that way, whereas other thoughts are more likely to be seen as sort of a blank backdrop. because people are almost always thinking and it seems kind of crazy to have a voice jabbering away 24/7.
    There's a quote in my favorite book on journaling from Walt Whitman: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. I am large. I contain multitudes." With writing, you basically have to just choose one thread, and run with it for as long as it's interesting. Then something else will seem more bright and shiny, and I'll chase after than. And so on. Eventually, what you're left with is this cohesive chaos. You'll see patterns emerging out of the wildness, and get a more holistic sense of what the inner storms are like. It's basically like cartography. You can't really tell what the shape of an island is when you're standing on the shore. But you can get a better idea by drawing it as a map, piece by piece.

    I also thought it was weird that someone would be having this monologue 24/7, but apparently people do that. I can't imagine what it's like. It seems like it would get tiring, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I do a lot of my thinking or general brain-tinkering in words. A lot of my idle time is spent formulating ways to communicate things verbally, either to have a greater grasp on the subject myself or to prepare for explaining it to others. I totally get what you're saying about logic existing underneath the use of language, and I often find that my understanding of things precedes my ability to explain it. I also find that I don't really like not being able to explain something in words, even if it's just to myself, so I'll spend a good chunk of time pinning it down consciously.

    IME, being able to verbalize whatever problems you have only works as a means of discovering what the problem really is, and it's merely one of several methods I'm sure the human brain can manufacture to meet such an end. For someone like me who's prone to overthinking problems until they're firmly rooted in the ground, any answer I come up with will never be an adequate substitute for acting on the problem and fixing it first hand; it's simply the way I know best of dealing with it. Plus as you mentioned before, at its core the brain functions without verbalization and can just as easily go off of gut feeling gestalts/impressions/impulses; but like before, feeling these negative impressions is not a means of fixing them. There has to be some action taken, and if your feeling sense is fine-tuned enough then simply spotting these impressions and images, understanding their nature on a core pre-lingual level, should be enough of a catalyst to stir activity for combating it.
    That mental rehearsal aspect is something I've heard a lot of my professors talk about actually. They recommend rephrasing the text in your own words, or imagine having to teach it to someone else. This approach never seemed to work all that well for me. I tend to have to get a holistic sense of the material first and create a mental "landscape" in which all the different concepts or definitions are landmarks. Going straight to language, I tend to forget things really quickly.

    I would say I'm probably not all that good at spotting the implications pre-linguistic impressions. They sort of jumble together in a frenzy of sights, sounds, and feelings. I know what you mean by overthinking problems into the ground, although I think I tend to "overfeel" them. Basically, I just end up churning over the same old stuff over and over again, with the intention of somehow solving the problem. The trouble is, I almost never take the time to identify the problem to begin with, which is why I've had to add the extra step of verbalization. Basically, going backwards before I can move forwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
     
    I wonder if this is head triad vs gut triad related?
    It may be. I'm not all that up on my Enneagram stuff, but do you see a trend in this thread/the poll?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    I think in words. a lot. most of the time in 1st person. sentences. try to reword sentences before i say them...

    sometimes when I'm really upset i'll try to imagine my life in 3rd person so i can try to be objective...it's almost impossible.

    Sometimes visual.

    Think of Ally McBeal... sometimes my mind will have visions of those types when I'm pissed/angry/amused.
    or memories. flashback. an imagine worst-case scenario scene might play out (but it'll be like a lightening fast dream, it'll usually be in first person pov).

    I don't listen to my gut very often. It's usually a nudge, a feeling of "don't do this..." but not in words, just in a knowing. But I think my gut is a scaredy cat and tells me "no" on everything so I stopped listening to it. Or I'm just a scaredy cat... and force myself to face every single frickin thing i'm scared of. which is counterproductive.

    My usual way of doing something I feel a strong urge not to is a)common sense...most people wouldn't do what i'm about to do. b)what's the worse that can happen? fuck it, try it again maybe it'll turn out differently or 3) and then usually do it anyways... and feel a sense of relief of "Well atleast I know" but also huge disappointment in myself of when am I going to grow the fuck up and learn not to do this..again.

    So now I try to rationalize a lot...but someone pointed out recently that anything can be rationalized into being a good choice. and so i've made a lot of bad choices but gave myself a lot of leeway because it sounded good to me. so. that leaves me going on my feelings which i can't imagine being that great
    of an idea because well.. my feelings change often. and usually change based on my rationalizing of an action or event.
    so Ive no idea what to do. I'm trying to learn from people around me but what works for them doesn't always work for me. so maybe I am falling back onto my gut.

    i also like to practice what im' going to say to someone outloud if it's important to me.. or a big topic.
    I know what you mean about your gut being a scaredy cat, lol. I have pretty ingrained anxiety-patterns that, if I listened to them, I'd never get out of bed, ever. It actually sounds like you do something similar to what I do, which is basically having to talk my way into doing the things I don't want to do (and here is where I do have to use words). But sometimes I find that just ends up in a mental boxing match, so often, I'll have to go: "Fuck it" and just get on with it and shut off my thinking temporarily. Then, there are weird experience where i'll end up just doing something without even thinking. Like last week, I accepted an invitation to a movie screening that was on a really awkward night. If I'd starting getting caught up in thought, I probably would have said "No." But I guess I wanted to see this movie so much that something deeper just pulled me into saying "sure" before even realizing what was happening. Those experiences are pretty rare, but I like them.

    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    Everything preceding this question provides its answer. Just like the last time you solicited 16chan's advice to ease existential twinges, you already know a salutary course of action. You just haven't bootstrapped yourself into taking it yet.

    BUT JUST TO MUDDY THE WATERS, HERE'S SOME ESOTERIC ASIAN SHIT BECAUSE I KNOW YOU FUCKING LOVE IT:

    “The fish trap exists because of the fish. Once you've gotten the fish you can forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit. Once you've gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist because of meaning. Once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so I can talk with him?”

    - Zhuangzi, Ascended Bro of True Awesomness
    That is indeed an awesome quote. You're right. I already know that I need to verbalize my thoughts more often. I have actually been wondering to what extent my experience with meditation has landed me in this predicament. Meditation is something that has allowed me tremendous inner freedom and yet, at the same time, I've been disturbed by a tendency among a lot of meditators who ignore or repress the storylines that are driving their lives. This often manifests as a sort of lack of self-awareness. Hell ath no fury like a repressed, passive aggressive nominal Buddhist. Having read a lot of that esoteric Asian shit, this approach seems antithetical to what Zhuangzi, the Buddha, Sankara, et al. were teaching. I know in the Buddha's case, he was teaching a path of awareness rather than blindness. The "disregard your mental chatter" or "words are inadequate" stuff is important in the sense that is facilitates psychological flexibility: identifying too strongly with one's mental chatter makes it unworkable. but I sometimes worry that sort of thing is overemphasized at the expense of the more actively analytical and contemplative aspects of these traditions.

    I do remember having more verbalizing going on in my head before I started meditating. I am not sure I want to go back to that because I was pretty psychologically inflexible back then. I probably wouldn't have been able to accomplish half of what I have in terms of breaking past anxiety and depression if I'd stayed stuck there. But it may be time to recalibrate and set the balance back slightly in that direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by squirreltual View Post
    I was speaking to an ILE about exactly this several weeks ago, but he seemed to have no idea what I was on about...

    When you talk about bodily sensations, for me it includes these physical sensations projected outwards spatially too. I still feel their motion, texture, weight, volume, etc. as if it is occurring inside. Like phantom limbs. If I want to problem solve I'll move these about. It feels similar to a lot of my synaesthetic responses. It's probably redundant to point out my preferred learning style is kinaesthetic.

    If I am very highly stressed then I do begin to think in words. There's a disconnect, so words appear to pop out.

    I don't feel like it has affected my ability to verbalize my thoughts at all, but of course I can capture their immediacy/completeness more easily by other means (sound, dance, tactile art, blah blah). By "immediacy" though I am now talking about qualia. And there lies the challenge much art is built upon. You cannot absolutely communicate your subjective experience to another. Ever.

    If you want to journal you don't have to use words. If you regularly document something in any other mode of creative expression it will still bear later analysis.
    I know what you're talking about. That's what my emotions feel like: like energy fields of varying shapes that pulsate or move around, almost like a fluid. And sometimes that fluid contains images (like actual memories) as well. It's similar to what @Gilly may be talking about with blobs fighting for attention. My emotions feel like blobs, lol.

    I've tried art-journaling before, but I find myself reverting back to words. For some reason, I like the challenge of translating what is mostly a nonverbal experience into a verbalized form. I think this is what poetry is all about: basically putting words together in a way that approximates a pre-verbal experience and creates an inner world. But this only works for the visual/sensory stuff. Sometimes I'll find myself thinking in music, in which case the only way to even approximate it is to let it out in musical form.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    BTW, I can honestly say, I enjoted every post in this thread. (Well, except the Absurd ones.) I wish I had the energy to reply to all the posts, but this is the best I can do, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by felafel View Post
    Did people not think before they had language? Maybe off topic, sorry Baby.
    @lungs: I did try to keep a journal at different times between 9-15 or so. I always ended up wanting to distance myself from anything I had written - the words in there seemed alien and off for some reason.

    I do think there might be a 'words part' to my thinking, from what i can tell, but much less than what my norm would be. I guess I only notice this when shifting between different languages and environments. I haven't given this much thought tbh.

    @Baby: It was once mentioned to me that this mismatch between thinking and verbal expression (you mention in OP) might have something to do with not being assertive. I can see how that might be true if one can't bridge the two. Maybe it's a matter of practice, starting with small and maybe not too personal concerns to 'build a bridge' between the two? I could be wrong and this might be way off for you though, or maybe i misunderstood.
    From what I've learned in some of my courses, it's definitely possible to thinking without knowing any words. As @Fireyed mentioned, feral children like Victor of Aveyron or those deprived of all language like this poor deaf woman named Maria No Name are examples. However, language offers a very useful organizing tool that streamlines the ability to do abstract thought. We don't know, however, if language is responsible for abstract thought itself, or simply that the brain stimulation received from learning a language creates new neural pathways that make abstract thought possible as a by-product, however.

    The assertiveness point is interesting. There are certain situations (anger especially) where I really have trouble expressing exactly what's going on. I have to sit down and actually ask myself "What is really bothering me?" before I can actually formulate an appropriate response. I like your conception of building a bridge between the two. That's probably a necessary step because it feels like this sometimes gets in my way.

    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly View Post
    I don't seem to think in complete sentences. I seem to get the general gist of stuff and there's no need for me to think it out. Then when I have to go out and interact with humans I struggle to articulate my thoughts because they are hardly ever detailed. I caught myself doing it the other day, not thinking in complete sentences or sometimes not even complete words and I tried to test myself to see if I could explain what I meant. I couldn't, so I made myself a sandwich and sulked.
    I have this problem too. It takes me some time to "warm up" and get some momentum going when I'm in a discussion with a group of people: it's like the part of my mind that form sentences is rusty and needs some grease up its gears in order to catch up with everyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    My thinkinz are predominantly visual, with auditory and tactile components as well. With regard to mental verbalization, that's mostly restricted to periods when I'm preparing an explanation of something, and collecting my thoughts for writing can require concerted effort.
    I read your original, longer post. It was good stuff.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    I narrate things in my head a lot. I'll take a walk, and instead of just looking at things around me, I'll try to find the words to describe them in my head, all the things I hear and see and experience as though I'm explaining them to someone else. I talk things out in my head also, when I'm playing with a concept or something I'm trying to understand, I'll explain it and bring visuals in as explanatory tools.

    I think with "pictures" when I'm remembering something, and so recall the video of it, am arranging something physical, or creating something physical in my head (in which case I move things around and rotate them, and "look" at them from different angles, but all in my head) or if I'm visualizing a scene, in which I create everything I see/hear in my head - altering details as I see fit.

    Sometimes I won't think, and will just trace objects with my eyes following their path and dimensions, but that can turn into a story, descriptive narration, plan or explanation also.

    Sometimes I'll look at things and imagine them being made, and that is without words. For instance, I looked away from the computer and noticed the baseboard, and "saw" it being nailed on, the top edge being caulked, etc. or I'll "see" a house being stuccoed, or framed, decorative trim being applied, concrete being smoothed, grass being mowed.

    The one thing I have real trouble putting into words - is feelings, knowing where they came from, and knowing what they are and mean. Sometimes I'll explain them to myself, only to find out later with more information that the explanation was wrong. There's also the case of just "sensing" something, just knowing something without knowing how I know it that happens to me, and that can arise with or without words.

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    Well this is an old but interesting thread

    I would say for me… “thinking” is likely mostly ‘verbal’ or in that general realm

    rest of what I ‘mentate’ might not be quite it

    Not sure what other word to use…


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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Anyhow, how the fuck did ye all produce such walls of text if you don't think in words, numbnuts? You be illogical?
    harshly stated but... touche


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    I hear words of self and of others. I was riding the lawn tractor today, and i'll replay something on the seat. It's just a general playback, like watching parts of a movie.

    It's generally a transcription from a past experience & i recreate their image thus see them and hear their tone of voice, pretty close to a reproduction. It's almost edietic. 80 percent visual, 100 percent audio.

    Certain words create colors: "Almost" is a blue mountain, and "pretty soon" is still picture of a fruit basket. Chevy is a feather-like-image in black in white. Seraphs are blue, just the color. Angels are white.

    I can drift into a deep zone and forget where i am.



    Black & white is a shallow divide, division is the color that multiplies

    Taking things at face value is good only for a spell

    To experience is simple, to explain is divine

    Hearts of stone are a dead giveaway: no movement




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    It's a mixture of words and vague visuals, I would say 70/30. I randomly switch languages sometimes.

    I assume this thread got back up due to this

    https://twitter.com/johngreen/status...15024275189884

    I couldn't even give you an answer here, as I do not visualize concrete objects. Everything is rather blurry. Sometimes it switches between several locations on a whim, and rather fast and spontaneous, as if I can't control it. This sort of state has given me revelations sometimes in which I felt like the end result was something entirely novel (like the idea that almost all public figures have the same sociotype). It happened gradually, though.
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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    What humans perceive as own thoughts are only a sort of conscious feedback; words are too slow to compass most of what the mind does.

    As evidence, recollect a light-bulb moment youve had in which everything simultaneously becomes clear. When sufficient thought has already been invested in a certain subject, facets of the situation or problem do not need to pass individually before the mind's eye because the entire conceptual region can respond simultaneously. Language is not so efficient. Moreover, several people have described a phenomenon in which an understanding that takes a fraction of a second to cross the mind can take twenty minutes to put into words.

    Of course people can think in words, but most likely, people think primarily in images-- not detailed, high-resolution images, but sort of representational flashes, like cave drawings or schematics

    Sorry that I don't know how I, personally, think. There's a significant amount of evidence that I think quite well, and I'm loathe to disrupt a functioning system. I realise this is what socionics is all about. I've tried to approach it obliquely. Thinking about thinking is purview of philosophers; I regard it as a waste of time except to the extent my mind has to interact with others

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expansion View Post
    I hear words of self and of others. I was riding the lawn tractor today, and i'll replay something on the seat. It's just a general playback, like watching parts of a movie.

    It's generally a transcription from a past experience & i recreate their image thus see them and hear their tone of voice, pretty close to a reproduction. It's almost edietic. 80 percent visual, 100 percent audio.

    Certain words create colors: "Almost" is a blue mountain, and "pretty soon" is still picture of a fruit basket. Chevy is a feather-like-image in black in white. Seraphs are blue, just the color. Angels are white.

    I can drift into a deep zone and forget where i am.
    Addendum:

    I sometimes get a sense of these playback impressions of futures, in what they are or will become, and/or their children's potential, and how it will most likely splay out, or with less likely scenarios. The energy is there though just a guess, you can't quite put your finger on it, but it's there ensconced by what has happened before, there is nothing new under the sun. It might true, it might be false.

    Unlike Pi - you can slice this one up, or so you think. The sky's the limit. The more nodes on the net, the more you catch.



    Black & white is a shallow divide, division is the color that multiplies

    Taking things at face value is good only for a spell

    To experience is simple, to explain is divine

    Hearts of stone are a dead giveaway: no movement




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