The difference between Ne and Se

[Satan]

leader, why the fuck would you want an infj girl.

[Beautiful sky]

I'll speak for myself...I don't even care about the enneagram anymore, it might have some validity..but not much. Socionics is what people should be focused on in my honest opinion, its the best/most accurate theory on personality/psyche so far. A year or two ago, I would have said that im 8w7...because do to my life experiences and this underlying anger that I have due to my life experiences, I wanted to take control of my destiny. Something happened, I had a fucked up life changing experience with my dual and it took me a year of grieving and contemplating about life to humble me. I no longer stress over having complete control over my destiny, somethings are out of my hands and im starting to see certain patterns in life. I no longer type as 8, I no longer type as anything in the enneagram. But thats just me.

The description I gave was how ESTps generally come across...in terms of temperament. And general, it seems to me that the more mature and experienced the Estp is, the more balanced they become, not too much Se energy and no too much Ti stoicness. Ofcourse individuals vary. This seems to be the case with all types, the more mature/experienced the individual is, the more they can focus on all functions rather than what they are naturally good at. Things such as genetics, environment, life experiences all contribute to the person's over personality and their development of their functions, which is why a type might for example be able to do something or be in a career that isn't generally associated with that type.

Those descriptions of each type are just like base temperaments, but depending on the individual and how they use all their functions (we can be even better at certain functions other than our base), they might look slightly different, its like different layers to one core personality. No individual is the same.

Im starting to see it like this...it usually helps if the person is dualized...or in otherwords has a strong sense and understanding of their first two main functions, or else they will be ill/look strange/out of place/unnatural. Then the development of other functions can take place.

Now i'll use myself as an example. Im ESTp, im aware of both my Se and Ti and use them exceptionally well. But in terms of development (and using the knowledge of socionics to my advantage), if I want to develop in one area of my life... i'll first take in the environment with my Se...then sort out the information with my Ti. Every other function is under the conscious control of my Ti. I take in the info with my Se, sort it with my Ti, and if I want to use another function other than Ti like say Fe for example...my Ti goes into the background but im still using it to control my Fe so to speak. At first, it was like when I tried to use Fe it would naturally be accompanied with Se when im in the moment, but that usually comes off too strong, so ive had to use my Ti to make my Fe more smoother and not as aggressive. Certain things might not come natural to me, but for me...using my Ti and with experience I get better at them, and will look much better to other people although probably with not as much depth as someone who uses that function naturally.

I've come to a realization....

Right now, im trying to get this INFj girl that I like. I've been thinking alot about the situation and gathering alot of info. One thing I read from a poster on one of the russian forums was to use more of your role. My role is Ne, so all day i've been literally focusing on developing my Ne. With all the research im doing, and by communicating with my conflictor for a while...if it goes on long enough i'll be a different person from what I am today, because im focusing more on my Fi and Ne (and hers too) when im around her...even if im naturally Se and Ti. Its all about developing and maturing and discovering yourself in the process, and others will be able to the change as well too. Not only that but ill be able to deal with the stress of Ne and Fi situations more because of my experiences and understanding with her, hopefully she can tell me something about myself that I am not noticing.

I see life through one lens only (although my experiences and knowledge of life and socionics helps me see a bit through the eyes of other people), due to my life...she sees it through the complete opposite because of her personality and her experiences. Im very tough and understand the material world...she looks so weak that I just want to protect her, but when I look into her eyes its kind of attractive yet intimidating because I know her inner reality and whats going on in her mind is pretty tough, shes good with her feelings and im not. We come from two different realities, but hopefully if we are together for a while we'll be able probably come out with a better, more complete picture of how real life is.

Buzz her and say "hey, we're ordering lunch...do you want any?" if she asks what and doesn't know what she wants to get make a suggestion for her because indecision is a common factor blocking decision when hungry. If she doesn't order anything, you keep asking her in a casual way...the third time tell her "I don't mean to nag at you, but I want you to know that I'm just thinking about you and making sure you get something to eat." She'll feel taken care of and loved

[superunknown]

Ne's primary concern is that of physical necessity in relation to existence.

Se already has that question figured out: food. Sometimes sex. And sleep.

[anndelise]

Also I know you Ne users have said things about how you use your own Ne, would be nice if you elaborated more. Im going to read the rest of the thread for your responses though. Im trying to develop my Ne.

Super simple way: each time you draw a conclusion about something, ask yourself "what else could it be?"

Strong Ne doesn't have to do that, but to strengthen Ne, try that question.

[chriscorey]

@blackburry and her big floppy pussy. She gotz some Ne.

[blackburry]

@blackburry and her big floppy pussy. She gotz some Ne.

lol. yeah. I'm totally ILE. actually my vagina is so floppy I turned it into a penis with tape. it's better to bang the ladies with. cuz i'm soooooooooooooo lesbian.

[ashlesha]

oh my god, the visuals.

[chriscorey]

lol. yeah. I'm totally ILE. actually my vagina is so floppy I turned it into a penis with tape. it's better to bang the ladies with. cuz i'm soooooooooooooo lesbian.

Hottt.... wanna meet?

[1981slater]

extroverted sensing as base function: ability to perceive what things ARE
extroverted intuition as base function: ability to perceive what things COULD BE
extroverted sensing as creative function: will to REARRANGE reality by means of PHYSICAL action
extroverted intuition as creative function: will to REARRANGE reality by means of VERBAL communication

[Beautiful sky]

This is the most embarrassing thread To me because I really see my stupidity here

[Beautiful sky]

Me is good with coming up with new ideas and Se is good at observing statics like a guy who yells out get off the field Se will say "that guy is being alpha"

[Singu]

extroverted sensing as base function: ability to perceive what things ARE
extroverted intuition as base function: ability to perceive what things COULD BE
extroverted sensing as creative function: will to REARRANGE reality by means of PHYSICAL action
extroverted intuition as creative function: will to REARRANGE reality by means of VERBAL communication

That's good... So what is Ni and Si?

Si is perceiving "how I am" (or how others are) in the moment
(Also: How I sense things)
Ni is perceiving "how I could be" (or how others could be) in the past or the future
(Also: How I mentally know myself)

Si creative is following external rules by applying "How I am" in the moment
Ni creative is following external rules by applying "How I could be" in the past or future

This is the most embarrassing thread To me because I really see my stupidity here

Maybe that's a good thing...

[Chae]

Let's suppose the hammer was just invented by chance.

@ hammer: Well potentially you could try this on nails
@ hammer: *just wields it*

[Singu]

Interesting things:

Se - The principle of existence: “I am active, therefore I exist”
Ne - The principle of existence: “The world around me is in harmony, therefore I exist.”

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...Grigory_Reinin

Why is it important for Ne to be harmonious?

[Nehtaro]

The Ne-ego seeks for a holistic understanding of their environment in the framework of Ti or Fi. Ne seeks first to understand the world as it is, to find patterns and account for all processes to find the confidence that anything new can be explained immediately and accurately. When the environment is not harmonious, it means that the Ne-ego's understanding of the environment is not complete.

[Singu]

Reinin describes Ne as "integrity of the external world", and Ni as "integrity of the internal situation", but why does N have anything to do with integrity? It is clear that they both seek some kind of mental understandings instead of perceiving things as they are.

Ah! Perhaps if there's an integrity, then things are more predictable. N types are less secure in handling things in a physical way, so they must rely on their mental perception to attempt to control the world around them.

Ne attempts to predict their environment (need a longer description than this). Ni attempts to predict themselves, which in turn can be used to predict others or some events.

[Nehtaro]

Ne is static. We attempt to build static models which, by their nature, contain information that we use to aid in predictions. So when we see something which is an indicator (relevant info) for our models, we use it to figure out which model applies, and then that gives us all the info we need to stay on top of things (predict things). E.G. say for IEE, person A does action X, Y, and Z, and model/holograph H is the only holograph with X, Y, and Z, so person A is of type H, and then all the information (which is of a Fi nature: characteristics about them, what they want, how they will respond to different cues and situations) is available to us and we have this in-depth picture of someone we just met. The more significant someone becomes to us the more we customize this information for them but importantly we use this to modify our models, make new distinctions, etc.
I am never sure how to describe Ni though, but attempting to predict oneself seems too simple, right? Is it like you understand the world by understanding yourself and imagining 'if I was this person/entity/process, how would I work?'

[Singu]

Yeah, it is a bit too simple. With Ni, you're always imagining yourself being in some time in the future or the past. I'd suppose you'd need to properly understand the consistency of yourself and others, or you can't predict the future, you can't understand how people or events may unfold. If there was no consistency, then it'll be unpredictable.

I do think "If I were this person, how would I feel/work?" etc, but I think that's more Ni with Fe.

(which is of a Fi, characteristics about them, what they want, how they will respond to different cues and situations)

Hmm, I think this is fairly relevant Fi information. I also do this but idk, it's probably more unconscious. But all this information is lumped into Fe and it basically asks: "What are they feeling? (in the moment)".

From what I understand, Fi keeps making models and it pulls out some information as needed. I think that makes Fi more understandable (to me).

[Alomoes]

Being an Ni dominant, you'd think I knew more about Ni, but it is hard to conceptualize. I consider it to be when I'm working on a test, and about halfway through I forget all the answers. Then at the last minute, I remember them all again. What goes on behind the scenes is that I'm going back in my head to what I was doing when I learned the whatever I need. Kind of similar to that movie, inception, except much more mundane. I can, for example, imagine a map of Europe. Currently, I see a flash of images of maps go through my mind. And then it is gone. I can see video, with sound included, but the quality of the videos is not so good. Anyways, most of this process is probably unconscious, which is weird considering it is my primary function. I reason it goes too quickly for myself to conciously understand, but it is there, and I am able to catch glimpses of it.

Si is the thing I don't care about, my appearance and other things. I might be too hot, but I don't care. That kind of thing. Hence why I typically wear two jackets no matter the temperature, and also why I wore no jackets for marching band when it was really cold. So yeah. Si is what ILI does not care about. IEIs also in theory don't care about them, but they at least try to look and smell nice because Fe or something. Oh yeah, excercise fits into this category, so I'd think it'd be reasonable to sometimes have an ILI that works out nonstop, and sometimes have an ILI that is more heavy set and more on the lazy side. Again, I'm not sure how his applies to IEIs, but it does.

[Nehtaro]

Being an Ni dominant, you'd think I knew more about Ni, but it is hard to conceptualize. I consider it to be when I'm working on a test, and about halfway through I forget all the answers. Then at the last minute, I remember them all again. What goes on behind the scenes is that I'm going back in my head to what I was doing when I learned the whatever I need. Kind of similar to that movie, inception, except much more mundane. I can, for example, imagine a map of Europe. Currently, I see a flash of images of maps go through my mind. And then it is gone. I can see video, with sound included, but the quality of the videos is not so good. Anyways, most of this process is probably unconscious, which is weird considering it is my primary function. I reason it goes too quickly for myself to conciously understand, but it is there, and I am able to catch glimpses of it.

Si is the thing I don't care about, my appearance and other things. I might be too hot, but I don't care. That kind of thing. Hence why I typically wear two jackets no matter the temperature, and also why I wore no jackets for marching band when it was really cold. So yeah. Si is what ILI does not care about. IEIs also in theory don't care about them, but they at least try to look and smell nice because Fe or something. Oh yeah, excercise fits into this category, so I'd think it'd be reasonable to sometimes have an ILI that works out nonstop, and sometimes have an ILI that is more heavy set and more on the lazy side. Again, I'm not sure how his applies to IEIs, but it does.

That was the worst description I've ever read. Have you been reading MBTI lately? Or are you another mis-typed ILI? Perhaps both? Like wow. No offense.

[Exodus]

That was the worst description I've ever read. Have you been reading MBTI lately? Or are you another mis-typed ILI? Perhaps both? Like wow. No offense.

It's not that bad, at least the second paragraph.

I am never sure how to describe Ni though, but attempting to predict oneself seems too simple, right? Is it like you understand the world by understanding yourself and imagining 'if I was this person/entity/process, how would I work?'

Ni does not have to be about oneself. This is not what introversion means, if that's what you mean. Ni generally means being aware of the deeper meaning and significance behind events, and how they are connected, what consequences actions have, etc.

(Your description of Ne sounds a bit strange to me actually, prediction may be a part of it but prediction is generally more of an Ni theme. Ne is more about spotting opportunities, seeing things or people's essential traits, etc.)

[Nehtaro]

@thehotelambush
In regards to Ne, yes, these are themes which are associated with Ne-egos. The actual underlying process through which I (and perhaps other IEEs, as well as ILEs and Ne-creatives, but I cannot speak for them) obtain insight into potential and essence is through the habit of making predictions, trying to 'see further' down the timeline, so that we can see what will happen before others do and thus be in a position to capitalize on this information. The strategy being from an evolutionary standpoint that 'the present is crowded, space is taken up, I will reposition to get more in the future.'
If you read Reinin you may notice that he associates Ne with "The sequence of events from the beginning to the end. This series of events, which are known in advance, the timetable. Potential. Program behavior, way of life, the rhythm of life. The script of an action, the score." I think this complements Aushra and others' writings quite well, and corresponds to my experience. All this of course is related to searching for potential and essence, but I was explaining the process as it happens.
Ni is also associated with time and timelines so I am curious to hear from a Ni-dom how their process works. Not just 'theme words'

[niffer]

oh but hotel doesn't believe in reinins

[Beautiful sky]

Se observes the outer properties of the objects thus knowing what's in the room and how these objects interact. People are objects too so if you act and smell like a Nazi what Se does is say that person is a Nazi lol. Se also observes the force that can be applied with objects and what objects maybe used for what force to get their way or to enact their will and change for their liking.

I'll give you an example of an SEE.

A child (5 years old) nags about their food at the dinner table. The SEE father tells him he can't get up until he's finished eating. Child, being 5, doesn't listen. To enact will and some sort of punishment the SEE warns them they will pour the food on their head. Then the child doesn't do as told the punishment is the SEE pours the food on a 5 year olds head.

My Fi to the above (you don't want to hear it!)

Here's Ne. Ne observes the inner statics of the objects. I or IEE look at the child and sense discomfort with regard to the food. And make out that they don't like it. What we do is trick, fool, or make the child something else to eat. @Chae what do you think?

[niffer]

ok tldr

all N is 'between the lines' -- what's above, and what spiritually/theoretically/conceptually/meta-ly holds things together; all that's not space and form -- it's the inverse of it, which helps GIVE IT form in that way
S is 'the lines'

(why N is "integrity" here, @Singularity )

[niffer]

i'd put my paypal link down so i could collect money for these insights if it weren't for my name being on there

[Hermit Soul]

Ne is about potential. Seeing the potential in people, and seeing the potential in situations. The below is an example of how Ne looks like (quoted from Anne Frank's diary):


"Think of all the beauty still left around you and be happy."
"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world."
"I see the world being slowly transformed into a wilderness; I hear the approaching thunder that, one day, will destroy us too. I feel the suffering of millions. And yet, when I look up at the sky, I somehow feel that everything will change for the better, that this cruelty too shall end, that peace and tranquility will return once more."
"Human greatness does not lie in wealth or power, but in character and goodness. People are just people, and all people have faults and shortcomings, but all of us are born with a basic goodness."
"Despite everything, I believe that people are really good at heart."
"Everyone has inside of him a piece of good news. The good news is that you don't know how great you can be! How much you can love! What you can accomplish! And what your potential is!"
"I don't want to have lived in vain like most people. I want to be useful or bring enjoyment to all people, even those I've never met. I want to go on living even after my death!"
"I have often been downcast but never in despair; I regard our hiding as a dangerous adventure, romantic and interesting at the same time. In my diary, I treat all the privations as amusing."
"I simply can't build my hopes on a foundation of confusion, misery and death... I think... peace and tranquillity will return again."
"He who has courage and faith will never perish in misery!"
"If I haven't any talent for writing books or newspaper articles, well, then I can always write for myself."

[Chae]

Here's Ne. Ne observes the inner statics of the objects. I or IEE look at the child and sense discomfort with regard to the food. And make out that they don't like it. What we do is trick, fool, or make the child something else to eat. @Chae what do you think?

Agree, is out there wildin'. Sure, I would use deception instead of punishment - the latter usually achieves to opposite effect. If you want a person to do something, you gotta make them want to do it themselves.

Maybe stage a funny theatre where the food was starting to talk (Me as Pepper: "Wooo let's enter this cave with white sabers hanging out of it!!" - Kid as Bread: "Yes build a bridge!!"), or pretend it would fly into the kid's mouth, this always does the trick and the kid starts to demand more and more. So, roleplay would be useful, could be connected to the kid's favorite book. Also I would try the food myself showing a good reaction (announcing I'd eat everything myself HAHAA I'M EVIL!!) so they become extra jealous If all else fails, pull silly faces and throw food into their open mouth while they are laughing. Nah just kidding they might choke.

[Beautiful sky]

Agree, is out there wildin'. Sure, I would use deception instead of punishment - the latter usually achieves to opposite effect. If you want a person to do something, you gotta make them want to do it themselves.

Maybe stage a funny theatre where the food was starting to talk (Me as Pepper: "Wooo let's enter this cave with white sabers hanging out of it!!" - Kid as Bread: "Yes build a bridge!!"), or pretend it would fly into the kid's mouth, this always does the trick and the kid starts to demand more and more. So, roleplay would be useful, could be connected to the kid's favorite book. Also I would try the food myself showing a good reaction (announcing I'd eat everything myself HAHAA I'M EVIL!!) so they become extra jealous If all else fails, pull silly faces and throw food into their open mouth while they are laughing. Nah just kidding they might choke.

[The Reality Denialist]

INjs converge divergently due to ignoring making process internally exhaustive thanks to demonstrative.

I just tried to look at this seemingly simple beast:
r=sin(kx)

You know what? It is very diverse and one could spend lots of days analyzing all facets of it (maybe rest of your life because it has interesting connections for example a pendulum in newtonian mechanics considering rotating coordinate system). It is kind of beautiful and very frustrating at the same time. Converging divergently...

[The Reality Denialist]

The Ne-ego seeks for a holistic understanding of their environment in the framework of Ti or Fi.

Although Se ego would say that you are not seeing the whole picture because you do not aim to use it as your leverage.

[The Reality Denialist]

Here's Ne. Ne observes the inner statics of the objects. I or IEE look at the child and sense discomfort with regard to the food. And make out that they don't like it. What we do is trick, fool, or make the child something else to eat. @Chae what do you think?

Couple of things I have done with my nephew.
Let's brush teeth. Child.: Nope!
I took glass full of water and watered my own head. It was easy after that.
Or when a nephew didn't go to bed. I pulled out my cell phone and said: So... we can listen lullabies all night long and he went to bed laughing.

[Beautiful sky]

Here's an Se example from an SEE of a different culture and non violent.

SEE: I'm taking proceedural medicine class and the procedure is that you have to triple check the meds before you disburse it once when you pull the meds from the counter, once when you draw the meds into the syringe, and once when you before you give the shot. I got points deducted for not triple checking. It's not like it's going to change after I've checked it the first time so I faught the teacher on it.

This should also go into the Ti polr thread

IEE would not fight the teacher on the procedure (please note that IEE is of Delta aristocratic dichotomy and thus sees or observes social hierarchy and respects the teacher authority)

[Singu]

i'd put my paypal link down so i could collect money for these insights if it weren't for my name being on there

Maybe if the information was something actually useful, and not some vague Socionics crap.

[Beautiful sky]

Maybe if the information was something actually useful, and not some vague Socionics crap.

With the amount of information that I've written you should be able to sniff people out lol jk

[Exodus]

@thehotelambush
In regards to Ne, yes, these are themes which are associated with Ne-egos. The actual underlying process through which I (and perhaps other IEEs, as well as ILEs and Ne-creatives, but I cannot speak for them) obtain insight into potential and essence is through the habit of making predictions, trying to 'see further' down the timeline, so that we can see what will happen before others do and thus be in a position to capitalize on this information. The strategy being from an evolutionary standpoint that 'the present is crowded, space is taken up, I will reposition to get more in the future.'
If you read Reinin you may notice that he associates Ne with "The sequence of events from the beginning to the end. This series of events, which are known in advance, the timetable. Potential. Program behavior, way of life, the rhythm of life. The script of an action, the score." I think this complements Aushra and others' writings quite well, and corresponds to my experience. All this of course is related to searching for potential and essence, but I was explaining the process as it happens.
Ni is also associated with time and timelines so I am curious to hear from a Ni-dom how their process works. Not just 'theme words'

oh but hotel doesn't believe in reinins

Well yeah, I don't put much stock in Reinin dichotomies but I did take a look at Reinin's book and it's not something I would use as a reference, sorry.

edit: actually the book is not bad overall but this happens to be one of the parts I don't agree with...

[niffer]

Maybe if the information was something actually useful, and not some vague Socionics crap.

what is considered useful to you? should i compile an index of 'biersack gone wild' or furry fandom material for you?

[The Reality Denialist]

Here's an Se example from an SEE of a different culture and non violent.

SEE: I'm taking proceedural medicine class and the procedure is that you have to triple check the meds before you disburse it once when you pull the meds from the counter, once when you draw the meds into the syringe, and once when you before you give the shot. I got points deducted for not triple checking. It's not like it's going to change after I've checked it the first time so I faught the teacher on it.

This should also go into the Ti polr thread

You should ask whether number three is real or not. It's actually a very legitimate question.

[Beautiful sky]

You should ask whether number three is real or not. It's actually a very legitimate question.

[Aylen]

Reinin describes Ne as "integrity of the external world", and Ni as "integrity of the internal situation", but why does N have anything to do with integrity? It is clear that they both seek some kind of mental understandings instead of perceiving things as they are.

Ah! Perhaps if there's an integrity, then things are more predictable. N types are less secure in handling things in a physical way, so they must rely on their mental perception to attempt to control the world around them.

Ne attempts to predict their environment (need a longer description than this). Ni attempts to predict themselves, which in turn can be used to predict others or some events.

I wasn't reading it as an ethical type of integrity.

Change "integrity" to:

coalescence of the internal situation

cohesion of the internal situation

wholeness of the internal situation

Does that make a difference?

I call it my innernet. <-- that just gave me an idea.