Taylor Swift's type (old discussions)

[Joy]

Yep, I suck.

Taylor Swift - quotes
Goodreads quotes









I heard this at Walmart the other day and wondered if the girl who wrote/sings it is IEI. After seeing the music video, I'm even more inclined to think so. She's Beta in the very least, right? Looks a bit like Starfall? What do you think, IEI? Apparently she wrote that song. (It is rather um... lacking on Te...)

[UDP]

I guess so. From what I remember Starfall is prettier though. I can see Taylor Swift as IEI, so far.

[Joy]

Yeah, Starfall's prettier. There's a resemblance though. I also think Taylor Swift is IEI.

[07490]

Yeah, Starfall's prettier.

Agreed

There's a resemblance though. I also think Taylor Swift is IEI.

even on the video a lot of her pose and mannerism reminds me of many IEI, even on acting the vibe and the V.I look is still very much there.

[Joy]

The lines...

Romeo, save me
They're tryin to tell me how to feel

...seems IEI to me, too. (The improper use of the term "scarlet letter" is evidence of weak Te, among other things. )

Anyways, this song has been in my head for days for some reason.

[UDP]

I just heard "you belong with me"
The lyrics sounds like an IEI in high school...

You're on the phone with your girlfriend, she's upset
She's going off about something that you said
'Cause she doesn't get your humor like I do

I'm in the room, it's a typical Tuesday night
I'm listening to the kind of music she doesn't like
And she'll never know your story like I do

But she wears short skirts, I wear T-shirts
She's Cheer Captain and I'm on the bleachers
Dreaming about the day when you wake up and find
That what you're looking for has been here the whole time

If you could see that I'm the one who understands you
Been here all along, so why can't you see?
You, you belong with me, you belong with me

Walking the streets with you and your worn-out jeans
I can't help thinking this is how it ought to be
Laughing on a park bench, thinking to myself
Hey, isn't this easy?

And you've got a smile that could light up this whole town
I haven't seen it in a while since she brought you down
You say you're fine, I know you better than that
Hey, what ya doing with a girl like that?

She wears high heels, I wear sneakers
She's Cheer Captain and I'm on the bleachers
Dreaming about the day when you wake up and find
That what you're looking for has been here the whole time

If you could see that I'm the one who understands you
Been here all along, so why can't you see?
You belong with me

Standing by and waiting at your back door
All this time how could you not know?
Baby, you belong with me, you belong with me

Oh, I remember you driving to my house in the middle of the night
I'm the one who makes you laugh when you know you're 'bout to cry
And I know your favorite songs and you tell me 'bout your dreams
Think I know where you belong, think I know it's with me

Can't you see that I'm the one who understands you?
Been here all along, so why can't you see?
You belong with me

Standing by and waiting at your back door
All this time, how could you not know?
Baby, you belong with me, you belong with me

You belong with me
Have you ever thought just maybe
You belong with me?
You belong with me

[olduser]

does lacking Te mean it is really really bad music?

she's isfp or infp.

[Joy]

A while back I remember seeing part of an NBC special on her and wondered what her type was at the time. For some reason I think I kept putting ESI in my mind (I think because she was a perfectionist, very highly driven, and a control & organization freak). I didn't really put a lot of thought into it though, and I can't say that I see a problem with IEI now that it's been suggested.

Hm, don't know anything about her personality. She did seem sort of hyper in another music video though. (I'm only me when I'm with you or something like that.)

On another note, I have no idea why (and I don't dislike her), but something I can't really explain about both Taylor and her music has always kind of bothered me, so I'm not really sure how to react to the comparison!

lol, sorry

does lacking Te mean it is really really bad music?

No... that's a separate issue.

[717495]

I think she may be an IEE

Yeah, that makes sense, at least in the sense that I see over , and I'm curious as to why some of these forumer Betas have been typing Fi valuers as Fe, because they like them? but maybe they don't really know them?

Also, I don't care what type Taylor Swift is. She's hot. I know some dominants who basically wear those heart necklaces all the time, but that's just an observation.

[Marie84]

I think Taylor Swift is an SEI>IEI. Nice girl but I doubt any Fi dominant would relate to her whimsical mannerisms

[717495]

I'm not familiar with her. However, SEI typings are weird in my opinion. They can seem so different from one another, especially between the guys and the girls, and a lot of them don't really come off all that whimsical. Can you provide any examples of her for what you're talking about? I mean, I think I get the jist of it. I saw one of her videos, but I don't really know if that's specifically what you're referring to.

[Marie84]

I imagine you can view multitudes of videos of her being interviewed on Youtube.
Another thing that sort of signaled a possible Fe creative typing is the things she writes about in her songs, ex:

"You're on the phone with your girlfriend, She's upset
She's going off about something that you said
She doesnt get your humour like I do"

That's something I can imagine an Fe creative saying to an Fi PoLR...

[717495]

Hmm. That comes off as Fe? I can sort of absorb that thought process and treat it like its my own through mere fantacizing, but actually understanding what you mean by that in context of Fe. Could you elaborate?

Watching interviews though, seems like Fe creative is probable.

[Marie84]

Hmm. That comes off as Fe? I can sort of absorb that thought process and treat it like its my own through mere fantacizing, but actually understanding what you mean by that in context of Fe. Could you elaborate?

Being able to show a continuous warm and positive demeanor, using this to subsequently make other people happy as well as show amiableness

The lyrics I posted are less Fe and more showing a receptiveness to Fi PoLR behavior, as Fe's tend to welcome the behavior and humor of Fi PoLR's that would generally offend Fi valuers, especially Fi dominants

[717495]

Ah okay. I wonder what kind of humor that would be, and I wonder if I would be threatened by it. Also this:

Being able to show a continuous warm and positive demeanor, using this to subsequently make other people happy as well as show an amiableness

I guess would kind of go with Fe, but it reminds me of perhaps more specifically a correlation to Alpha Fe, such as a form of how it tends to be defined in MBTI, more or less. This is something I don't always see in SEIs though. Some of them don't really have that strongly warm feeling, especially in males like BlackCat, who comes across more "cool":

[Marie84]

Ah okay. I wonder what kind of humor that would be, and I wonder if I would be threatened by it.

Personal attacks laced as humor. Anything that could deeply offend/hurt someone, especially when used to boost ones ego.

I guess would kind of go with Fe, but it reminds me of perhaps more specifically a correlation to Alpha Fe, such as a form of how it tends to be defined in MBTI, more or less. This is something I don't always see in SEIs though. Some of them don't really have that strongly open and adaptive to emotional reactions of others down so much, maybe especially males, like BlackCat:

YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.

In general, I think Fe's can convey all types of emotions easily, not necessarily positive one, to serve whatever purpose they may have.
So while some will come off as warm and inviting, others may use Fe to appear more mysterious and melancholic, I've noticed the latter a lot in IEI's...

[717495]

Right, that works. I didn't mean to say he's not adaptive to emotional reactions, as he definitely is, but rather just that he comes across to me, not all that "warm," a lot of the time, which isn't a bad thing. I'm sure you can be warm just fine, just in case you ever read this BlackCat. Probably not, I can't picture anyone I know doing a search for Miley Cyrus. I think he's generally turned of by the Taylor Swift attitude, which is why he had problems identifying with being an Fe ego.

Personal attacks laced as humor. Anything that could deeply offend/hurt someone, especially when used to boost ones ego.

Could you give an example of a "personal attack"? I'm trying to think if I've ever joked around like this once or twice before. If I have minimally, I have realized my mistake right then, a couple seconds later. I don't really know the severity of what a "personal attack" is that you're referring to.

[Marie84]

Right, that works. I didn't mean to say he's not adaptive to emotional reactions, as he definitely is, but rather just that he comes across to me, not all that "warm," a lot of the time, which isn't a bad thing. I'm sure you can be warm just fine, just in case you ever read this BlackCat. Probably not, I can't picture anyone I know doing a search for Miley Cyrus.



Could you give an example of a "personal attack"? I'm trying to think if I've ever joked around like this once or twice before. If I have minimally, I have realized my mistake right then, a couple seconds later. I don't really know the severity of what a "personal attack" is that you're referring to.

Well it's an attack to me even if the Fi PoLR didn't even intend it to be. It's things like stepping over relational and ethical boundaries by pointing out weak or unlikeable aspects of a person and lacing them as humor.
I posted in one thread, recently, that I find the show SNL to be a good example of Fi PoLRness, especially ILE. A show that mocks and parodies people, especially those who are already being crucified by the media. I find this to be incredibly dickish and not at all funny.
It's not as bad when someone is knocking themselves down simultaneously, Conan O'Brien does this a lot (LIE?) which makes his jokes about others less harmful IMO

[717495]

Oh, good example. I feel the same way, for the most part. I honestly thought that you might have been talking about jokes that sound sort of insulting, but that are just playful, where you can sense that person just kidding around and it is hardly about something that is true, take Ben Stiller for example, if you have seen him in a movie like Meet the Parents. When he messes with people, it's light and he doesn't really mean it.

These are the sort of jokes actually, that I've found make some Betas I know offended, and it's like they almost don't get that it's a joke and nobody is actually being made fun of. It is sort of the exact opposite then. However I couldn't say with any kind of certainty that the humor belongs to a type or quadra, but it still seems like an Fi dom wouldn't partake in it either.

[silverchris9]

Her music is horrible and I just read an old defense of her horrific grammy performance (wherein she sang off-key) on the grounds that she's the "best communicator" in song that is in music today, which incited in my soul such fury that I had to offer up a prayer of thanks to God for not making me Jove in the clouds, commander of lightning, for otherwise, Swift and the idiot producer who wrote the idiot defense both would have gotten a swift lightning bolt up the ass.

What type is she?

EDIT: Seriously, her music is shitty as hell, and she can't sing. Why is she so famous?! I was willing to excuse it on the grounds that yeah, she's likable, she's cute, her popularity was boosted by that jackass Kanye West (who is four billion times more talented than Taylor Swift), but really, it's just inexcusable. Even Brittany Spears had some mild talent insofar as she was a good dancer (and was very good at looking hot in a schoolgirl uniform), but Taylor Swift can't even dance. Can't sing, can't dance, can only really play like four chords on the guitar, and yes, she writes her own songs... but the songs are not very good. In fact, many of them are actively bad. So why is she famous? She's not even really hot. She looks like a less attractive version of a girl I went to high school with.[/rant]. Okay, I'm done. But I'm really, really frustrated by pop music and how much it sucks. The masses are stupid.

[717495]

Probably SLE.

[silverchris9]

Seriously? Ugh. Fine. Maybe she is. Well, here's one reason why duals wouldn't get along: one dual finds the entire cultural enterprise for which the other stands wholly repugnant.

polikujm, I guess I take back the "cute" comment, if you were actually being serious. I had assumed she was some sort of Si-valuer. (Granted, then she should probably want to improve her singing just for her own comfort's sake).

At least I can succor myself by remembering that Amy Winehouse is also my dual. And Amy Winehouse is brilliant.

[717495]

Hmm, well I find her kind of cute in a "haha, look at her, she's cute" way, but I do not enjoy her music (it does come across as novice yodeling), and I think of her normal unmanaged being as seeming pretty typically SLE-Ti for the most part. I don't think a typing of SEI stands out at all, from her real self. Haven't done extensive background research or anything like that.

[717495]

Yeah that's what I was thinking, the whole Beta ST association is there, the exact reference and other associations, and I probably almost take back my comment about her being cute (let's just leave that word out of the conversation lol), because I thought of the same thing. I'm used to my impressions upon seeing her at first, when I wasn't as familiar with her style. Cute wasn't the word, I think my brother and I agreed that she was hot or something...whatever, he's always trying to turn me on to celebrities, and these words are meaningless in such a context, no offense. I would not think SEE...and she definitely doesn't come across as IP. SLE fits pretty well in my mind.

[xerx]

Taylor Swift is ESTp, perhaps ESFp as a second choice, but never a Ip lol. She's a maneater and pretends to be vunerable to get people to love her. But you have to realize it's all an act. Ips are more genuinely unaware of themselves. Even if they're calculating their effect like 4s, it comes off as charming. She's just too self aware. She's also kind of a bitch.

That's not cute. That's ruthless pretending to be cute layered over fragility. What people don't realize is that Taylor Swift is one of those Beta ST females that Riddy talked about that turn the whole cute female thing into a study of sorts. And succeed very well at it. It's just that a crocodile doesn't turn into a flower. And that's why silverchris hates her and finds her grating. Why? Well, because..as a Beta she's kind of just lapsed into..not doing her duty, basically.


Fail.

ROFL
hmm...

[silverchris9]

Oh, look at those pictures! She is actually evil on the inside. Good for her! Someone should tell her to stop acting like a four year old, learn how to sing, and maybe actually become an artist (although at this point I feel like that would take a miracle). She is actually SLE too. I have to admit, there really is a girl that looks just like her who went to my high school, and that girl is SLE too, so yeah.

Also, I don't just hate her because she's a beta hiding her inner beta ST maneating bitch of Megan Fox awesomeness (not that anyone's as awesome as Megan Fox) under a veneer of idiot (but thank god there's not actually someone that vapid on the earth, because I swear, she'd be a black hole and the entire world would disappear into the sheer emptiness of her head), I genuinely hate the dreadfulness of her music and the fact that the public eats it up. But hopefully soon she'll turn, before it's too late and she's trapped forever in the pop princess world she's made. She only needs to put out one or two more albums as cutesy Taylor Swift, and then she can pull a Rihanna and "go bad," which will hopefully make her more likeable. Also, if Beyonce can learn to sing, maybe this girl can too (although even Beyonce always had more voice than Taylor Swift-who-is-an-epic-fail).

Also also, if she were a real beta, she would have snatched that mic out of Kanye's head and beat him over the head with it, which is the only proper response in a situation like that.

[717495]

Ips are more genuinely unaware of themselves...She's just too self aware.

Yeah, it certainly seems that way from the outside. She is way too self-aware and physically calculating.

She is actually evil on the inside. Good for her!

She's scary in this role. It's like seeing the wolf in sheep's clothing.

[xerx]

Unless she's lieing for effect or under contract or whatever, her closest friends in the entertainment industry are Emma Stone, Miley Cyrus, Selina Gomez, Demi Lovato and Kelly Pickler.

0:20



So yeah, if anyone cares enough to type those people.

She is actually evil on the inside.

But she seems so sweet and innocent.

[xerx]

Her evilness looks like a foghorn sounds. You can see it a mile away. And the niceness is so calculated. She needs to get a big fat tattoo and embrace her true nature already. Seriously.

It's not so obvious to me. Sweet innocent girl exteriors are my weakness.
I wonder how all the fans who wrote feeling sorry for her after the Kanye incident are going to feel when she turns 24 and the only way of saving her career is to show she's a succubus bitch.

[silverchris9]

It's not so obvious to me. Sweet innocent girl exteriors are my weakness.
I wonder how all the fans who wrote feeling sorry for her after the Kanye incident are going to feel when she turns 24 and the only way of saving her career is to reveal she's a succubus.

Oh, she doesn't have to become a whore! Or even particularly trashy or succubus-y. She just has to become... externally strong and not a liar. I mean, Megan Fox is incalculably hot, but she's probably actually a bitch for reals in real life. You don't have to go to that extreme. Madonna is not at that extreme. Whitney Houston is not at that extreme (although she was at another extreme; btw, there's another one that pretended to be all cutesy and sweet and innocent; see: "I Wanna Dance With Somebody." And then see "My Name is Not Susan" for comparison). Amy Winehouse is, in all likelihood, currently dying of trying not to be a complete bitch. But the world is hard for Beta ST woman, I'd imagine.

She's scary in this role. It's like seeing the wolf in sheep's clothing.

The scarier the better. If she were even vaguely talented, she'd be great. But I get what you mean.

Emma Stone, Miley Cyrus, Selina Gomez, Demi Lovato and Kelly Pickler.

Simon Cowell thinks Kelly Pickler is another beta in sheep's clothing, but I think she's really that dumb. Probably alpha SF. Selina Gomez plays an SEE on her show, and given that she's probably not a good enough actress to do anything but play herself on screen, she's probably an SEE (or ESI) too. No idea on the types of Miley Cyrus or Demi Lovato (although Demi Lovato, thus far, has been a fail, which is hilarious. I think she's some sort of alpha or delta type, personally, leaning alpha) and I don't even know who emma stone is. Maybe she's IEI.

[marooned]

SLE and evil? Really?

I'm predisposed towards SEI or XEI. I was also thinking that if she's giving off the impression of subdued Se that would work perfectly with SEI (Se ignoring). Maybe people are sensing that she has strong Se but doesn't "put out" and so she seems like a fraud pretending she has no Se. But maybe Si types could look that way to Se types or Se super-id people?

/crazy ideas

[silverchris9]

SLE and evil? Really?

...it was a metaphor. Sort of. eh... you know what we mean. Not evil, so much as... as a very active and directed sort of energy, which manifests as a sort of acquisitiveness towards everything, a sort of generalized possessiveness. You see it in her eyes. That's what we mean by evil, and it is actually very much characteristic of, for lack of a better term, bad SLEs. It is not so much evil. An IEI could be evil, as could an LII, an EII, etc. But this specific sort of thing, a very active energy, even an energy of desire, is something that an IEI would be very sensitive to, perhaps, and that is generally manifested in Se-egos, and is extraordinarily obvious in those pictures.

Now, all that said, SEI was my guess for her as well... but she's probably SLE.

[Morcheeba]

Yeah, I think SLE, a really fake one though, never met one that acted like her.

[munenori2]

Taylor Swift kind of reminds me of my sister I've always thought was ESFp > ESTp. They both have this kind of extreme blatant literalism that gets boring quick.

[Galen]

She always struck me as ISFp. I'm not sure how you guys are getting Se leading...

[marooned]

Taylor Swift kind of reminds me of my sister I've always thought was ESFp > ESTp. They both have this kind of extreme blatant literalism that gets boring quick.

yeah, if Se leading, why ESTp rather than ESFp?

[marooned]

I think that basically you're recognizing something that you don't feel is "genuine" about Taylor Swift and going into an analysis of what she is hiding, her overall energy, how she comes off etc. based on a pre-established group of criteria in your mind (e.g. "F types are generally softer" or 'Beta ST women not being able to pull off the softness of Alpha SFs' etc.). Your impression that she is putting on a calculated cute act that comes off as grating and fake because it is overcalculated (a Beta ST trying to come off as an Alpha SF or something) is really only an impression. And if you're trying to persuade me she's SLE, I'm just not convinced based on this impression. I am deeply wary of this kind of photo-impression typing if it is the sole basis. Silverchris for instance seemed to flip to SLE immediately off of the posting of two pictures.

As far as I can tell, Swift comes off as vapid and superficial in all videos of her and in her online blog. Part of the issue is that she's a celebrity and they do tend to maintain their images. I am not going to conclude though that she is actually someone entirely different making a calculated appearance to be something she isn't (whether deliberately or otherwise). I agree she comes off as "fake" in general and it does seem bizarre if that is really all she is. But, as far as I can tell there are no deeper conversations or anything more central to her core self available online and so it's pretty hard to establish much of an opinion, for me, beyond an impression.

And ftr, I didn't think you guys were meaning literally "evil"... I was expressing my skepticism of Silverchris' apparent change to SLE because he saw a couple photos and seemingly immediately bought into your own photo-based argument.

Also ftr, the man in my avatar is a victim of mind control. He doesn't have any sort of typical headache, but an extraordinary one (clearly).

[marooned]

My arguments aren't photo based exactly. When I show a photo and a little quip with it they are not the sole basis for my argument. It's just an example of how the impression manifests. It's like you can't always write dissertations on physical impressions. So sometimes a photo is easier. But somehow you don't seem to be seeing the same thing

I'm just not convinced, in short. Whether it's just based on that to you is one thing, but in this thread that is all you have provided, so I'm just saying that I'm not convinced based on that. My own impression earlier on of XEI was also just an impression, and that was it. I can't say that I'm sure on any type for her and after reading through her blog I'm even less sure. (And that is the thing about these kinds of impressions, they do rely just on "what we see," which ends up making them unreliable as arguments, though not at all unimportant... and impressions are usually behind most of my posts in these sorts of threads... but they are also based on criteria as well, so it could also be that we have different criteria in our minds behind the impressions or disagree on what criteria is more or less important.) Even if my impression matched yours, it would still be an impression and something preliminary and I still wouldn't consider it as any kind of proof of a type, just more of a place holder in my mind that I probably wouldn't ever get around to fleshing out more.

[jewels]

her movements are rather awkward. Nothing about her says ESTp to me at all. She flails about. Socially she also seems awkward to me. I've seen her as an INTp or something similar from the start.

[silverchris9]

Silverchris for instance seemed to flip to SLE immediately off of the posting of two pictures.

True, but really I was just responding to the first considered notion that I received; I had a vague guess of SEI, but that was largely because I didn't like her and didn't want her to be Ni/Se. I honestly saw IEI as a possibility as well, but I didn't like it, so I ignored it. But I didn't have an official position beforehand. So it was more of a shift (from neutral to belief) than a flip (from one belief to another).

Now, all that said... those pics look hella SLE. Detached, calculating, forceful. And, as I think I said before, I really really hope the woman is not as vapid as she comes off, and if she was secretly "evil," that would be just magnificent.

But overall, thanks for pointing out how arbitrary that choice seems. I'll get off my ass and watch some interviews and come up with a more considered typing, but the SLE one is not by any means impossible, imo.