It does not say that. I says that bilble/Christian perspective is a trap that binds you in to duality, enemy to your own nature, and that you are better of "integrating the evil" which is in line with what that IEI and rat1 are saying in the unfavorably frivolous language.Originally Posted by DJ Arendee
First of all, what an interesting thread. Special thanks for @silke for that video, I cried like a fool watching it. So goddamn fucking beautiful.
I am the IEI mentioned in the opening post. Just to clear this up, I am neither a satanist, nor Luciferian. I would describe my approach to spirituality and religion as eclectic, methodological mysticism, and my current practices are a mixture of Hermetic Qabalah, Thelema, Zen & Theravada Buddhism and some yogic&tantric practices.
The way I see things is that there are certain underlying principles – located in Atziluth, the archetypal tier, or the "morphogenetic" plane of reality – that remain as they are, regardless of our individual beliefs. Think of them as the basic building blocks of reality, or in more technical terms (eww, I gonna sound like an ILI here
However, as physical beings, we usually perceive life from a completely different plane of reality. Between the underlying, archetypal principles and the material world, there are planes of creation and formation which determine the way things appear in the active/material plane.
Archetypes cannot be observed, for they have no form – and once they take a form, they are no longer purely archetypal, but representations of an archetype. Here is where all these different philosophies, religions and models of reality stem from. Now, while I do think those underlying principles remain somewhat untouched by our interpretations and beliefs (although there are exception to this, but let us forget about it for now), I am not by any means saying that our interpretations didn't play an extremely important part on the other planes.
Think of the archetypal plane as an empty apartment. While the apartment's there, the way you place furniture in it determines how it's going to serve you as a home. Different people are going to place the couch in different corners of the living room. My mom went to a professional interior designer and sticks with what they did to her house. I've let mine form over the years based on what seems to work for me in different phases of my life. One of my friends hates furniture altogether. He only has a thin matress he sleeps on in an otherwise empty apartment. To each their own, I guess… All these apartments will serve different needs. My mom's apartment looks grander than mine, but there's less room for change, and even less for creativity. And I wouldn't feel safe wrestling in my living room, whereas my friend certainly would in his. Similarly, the way we interpret these basic structures of reality will affect the way reality serves us in our lives.
So yeah, here's the big catch: I don't really believe one interpretation is more correct than another. At most, some interpretations serve as better maps for navigating in the territory. They will either provide more understandable or more detailed explanations of the place itself, or change the way I approach these surroundings into something better. I feel like realizing this has freed me on another level, a sort of meta level, because it also lets me re-evaluate not just which maps I use, but how I want to look at them, and combine them together. Shrug. Collages work for me.
DJA mentioned that
Here, I'd like to correct that I have simply decided to adapt the Thelemic view of a Holy Guardian Angel because I feel it offers me a wider range of tools to work my way straight into the core. I do however recognize that the phenomenon I describe as the "HGA" has also been called Tipharet, the Heart Chakra, the Mental Body, the Higher Self, Lucifer, or Jesus Christ. And while all these forms have the same basic structure, there are subtle differences in the way they operate.
Similarly, what I call Choronzon or The Dweller due to my Thelemic tendencies, might also be called Satan, or the Jungian Shadow, if you will. Here we can observe the way out interpretation affects our lives in a very concrete fashion – your average Christian will probably think of Satan as the deceitful enemy and never integrate it in his life whereas someone more familiar with Jung's explanations of this phenomenon would more probably attempt to integrate the shadow in himself rather than denying it as a part of himself. These two approaches will produce different results. I will leave it up to the reader to decide which one would more probably work out better.
(No, what the fuck, no I won't. Personally, I have never once for a second regretted integrating the shadow.)
I am rambling. Why.
DJA says he thinks I'm thinking about this a bit too much. In my opinion, he's the one doing too much loopy thinking here.My brain isn't exploding here. Hahahaha. At the end of the day I'll quit talking about it and start doing it instead. I got sick of people who just talk and talk and talk about spirituality but never do anything about it quite a while ago! I have a very practical approach to my spiritual practices. Sit the fuck down. The pieces of the puzzle will sink in with time. Meanwhile, just enjoy the ride because you're there already anyway.
Love is the Law, Love under Will.
Last edited by Aivonaima; 12-08-2013 at 11:54 AM.
"Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."
Why wouldn't you just live your life in this manner regardless?.. always be skeptical, and explore all facets of life. Your reaction is alien to me. Why don't you just..live for yourself...?
This is horrible fucking advice
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
Ehehe
"Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."
Ok its not so bad per se. All I got from that video is that self actualization occurrs with the incorporation of your shadow, which basically means, to understand yourself you must understand others. Self esteem is important and when you build yourself up, others may come with you. But ultimately you should build yourself up first so that you can then build others.Ehehe
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
Ultimately my faith in christ is based on the fact that christiany focuses on loving others, and not plain old self actualization. There is a noticible high that real christians have. A preacher once told me, "go ahead and be skeptical of the bible. Youll only understand it better afterward.
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
WHen you ostracize your shadow you are going to feel like you need build toward a perfect image of yourself. The perfect universal image of Christ is irreconcilable with the shadow. When people refer to merging christ with the shadow, this is actually impossible. Merging them is referring to balancing them situationally. In some situations your shadow finds natural expression... at others times the light comes out. By working to materialize both sides of yourself you'll find they lay foundations for one another.
Just leave behind your universal idealism that's been taught to you in the bible; take the teachings for what they are, half of the picture; and work to strengthen both sides of yourself in a balanced fashion.
I think shadow integration (at least in the most common sense) is simply about accepting those things as a part of yourself that you've previously tried to push away as less desirable. Kind of like Judgement in tarot:
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/learn...udgement.shtml
As the Fool leaves the garden of the Sun, he feels that he is near the end of his journey, ready to take a final step. But something is keeping him from doing this, holding him back. He gazes up, hoping to find guidance from the Sun; instead he sees above him a fiery angel, beautiful and terrible.
"You are right," the Angelic figure confirms, "you have only one last step on your journey, one final step to completion. But you cannot take that step until you lay your past to rest."
The Fool is perturbed. "Lay it to rest? I thought I'd left it behind, all of it!"
"There is no way to leave the past behind," The Angel observes. "Each step wears down the shoe just a bit, and so shapes the next step you take, and the next and the next. Your past is always under your feet. You cannot hide from it, run from it, or rid yourself of it. But you can call it up, and come to terms with it. Are you willing to do that?"
The Angel hands the Fool a small trumpet. The Fool is hesitant, but he knows that the Angel is right. There are certain memories he has a hard time looking back on as they make him feel guilty, ashamed, angry. He knows that he's never come to terms with what happened and he must if he wants to make that final transition.
He blows the trumpet and it cracks open the Earth. From under the Fool's feet, the spirits of his past selves rise up, including those less than admirable past selves that he's tried to forget.
For the first time, he faces them. They are, he sees, nothing to fear. They were him once-upon-a-time, but not now. Even as he realizes this, he finds himself forgiving those past selves for the wrongs they did that left him feeling bad. He senses, in turn, that they forgive him for ignoring the lessons they had to teach him. As he reaches an understanding with them, they start to rise up and float away, vanishing into the sky. Though they remain as experiences and memories, they no longer have any power over him. He is free of ill-feelings, reborn, and living in the present.
Or at least that's how it worked out for me. As you face the less desirable things about yourself (and/or the rest of the world) you notice how they weren't as hard to face as you had pictured. So you'll face that fear, and the fear no longer has control over you. Besides that, you'll also integrate the shadow as a part of your conscious self so that it no longer has power over you through your unconscious. It's like having the little terror where you can keep an eye on it. And from thereon you can just roll your eyes and pat it on the head dismissively (and lovingly, too) whenever it suggests you do nasty shit, and do good things instead. Simple as that.
"But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?"
"Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."
So:First of all, what an interesting thread. Special thanks for @silke for that video, I cried like a fool watching it. So goddamn fucking beautiful.
I am the IEI mentioned in the opening post. Just to clear this up, I am neither a satanist, nor Luciferian. I would describe my approach to spirituality and religion as eclectic, methodological mysticism, and my current practices are a mixture of Hermetic Qabalah, Thelema, Zen & Theravada Buddhism and some yogic&tantric practices.
The way I see things is that there are certain underlying principles – located in Atziluth, the archetypal tier, or the "morphogenetic" plane of reality – that remain as they are, regardless of our individual beliefs. Think of them as the basic building blocks of reality, or in more technical terms (eww, I gonna sound like an ILI here
However, as physical beings, we usually perceive life from a completely different plane of reality. Between the underlying, archetypal principles and the material world, there are planes of creation and formation which determine the way things appear in the active/material plane.
Archetypes cannot be observed, for they have no form – and once they take a form, they are no longer purely archetypal, but representations of an archetype. Here is where all these different philosophies, religions and models of reality stem from. Now, while I do think those underlying principles remain somewhat untouched by our interpretations and beliefs (although there are exception to this, but let us forget about it for now), I am not by any means saying that our interpretations didn't play an extremely important part on the other planes.
Think of the archetypal plane as an empty apartment. While the apartment's there, the way you place furniture in it determines how it's going to serve you as a home. Different people are going to place the couch in different corners of the living room. My mom went to a professional interior designer and sticks with what they did to her house. I've let mine form over the years based on what seems to work for me in different phases of my life. One of my friends hates furniture altogether. He only has a thin matress he sleeps on in an otherwise empty apartment. To each their own, I guess… All these apartments will serve different needs. My mom's apartment looks grander than mine, but there's less room for change, and even less for creativity. And I wouldn't feel safe wrestling in my living room, whereas my friend certainly would in his. Similarly, the way we interpret these basic structures of reality will affect the way reality serves us in our lives.
So yeah, here's the big catch: I don't really believe one interpretation is more correct than another. At most, some interpretations serve as better maps for navigating in the territory. They will either provide more understandable or more detailed explanations of the place itself, or change the way I approach these surroundings into something better. I feel like realizing this has freed me on another level, a sort of meta level, because it also lets me re-evaluate not just which maps I use, but how I want to look at them, and combine them together. Shrug. Collages work for me.
DJA mentioned that
Here, I'd like to correct that I have simply decided to adapt the Thelemic view of a Holy Guardian Angel because I feel it offers me a wider range of tools to work my way straight into the core. I do however recognize that the phenomenon I describe as the "HGA" has also been called Tipharet, the Heart Chakra, the Mental Body, the Higher Self, Lucifer, or Jesus Christ. And while all these forms have the same basic structure, there are subtle differences in the way they operate.
Similarly, what I call Choronzon or The Dweller due to my Thelemic tendencies, might also be called Satan, or the Jungian Shadow, if you will. Here we can observe the way out interpretation affects our lives in a very concrete fashion – your average Christian will probably think of Satan as the deceitful enemy and never integrate it in his life whereas someone more familiar with Jung's explanations of this phenomenon would more probably attempt to integrate the shadow in himself rather than denying it as a part of himself. These two approaches will produce different results. I will leave it up to the reader to decide which one would more probably work out better.
(No, what the fuck, no I won't. Personally, I have never once for a second regretted integrating the shadow.)
I am rambling. Why.
DJA says he thinks I'm thinking about this a bit too much. In my opinion, he's the one doing too much loopy thinking here.
Love is the Law, Love under Will.
Wow. What a turn of events. Aivo.
Could I get a TLDR then? Bottom line, what does this mean? How will you "start doing" your faith? What is your "practical approach"?
Your quote is killing me. Why do people not know how to use quotes?
Well. Basically. Hatha yoga, to teach my body to remain silent. Kundalini yoga, to teach my nervous system to remain silent. Anapana meditation, to teach my mind to focus on the silence. Vipassana meditation, to teach my mind to watch in silence. Excercising the art of trancendental ecstasy and horror and the lack of them thereof. And various other things including rituals, trances, prayers and other acts of magick. Look it up, puppy.
"To be a magician you simply need to stop thinking about doing it, stop talking about it, believe nothing except what you've experienced and practice every day."
– Alan Chapman in The Camel Rides Again: A Primer in Magick
Last edited by Aivonaima; 12-08-2013 at 11:30 PM.
"Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."
Read Yahwehs own words:
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
The Hebrew word for "evil" there is "Rah", which means calamity or disaster. The word for sin is "kattawaw" which means "to miss the mark" or "to fail".
http://www.teachingtheword.org/apps/...st&blogid=5435
There are many other sources confirming the meaning of the word.
There are other places the word Rah is used:
Genesis 2:17
Genesis 13:13
Deuteronomy 1:35
1 Kings 16:30
I just found out exactly what I dislike about you!
dude stop talking to me
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
nooo,it cathartic to me! It's like...you're created by your god so I can pick on you!
God created me with a different goal in mind... but than i never really obeyed that well....
Btw, i've seen your video's... no way that's your doppleganger, that's just concieted... ;-)
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