What type is this guy?

[Eliza Thomason]

Maybe he should know who his Dual is...

https://gma.yahoo.com/man-girlfriend...-news-sex.html

[Adam Strange]

Maybe he should know who his Dual is...

https://gma.yahoo.com/man-girlfriend...-news-sex.html

Hi, Eliza.
Good call. I agree he should know who his Dual is.

This guy is obviously an LIE. Works half the day in finance, hates inefficiency, views the world as being full of opportunities, and is fine with subcontracting the job of finding a mate to someone else in exchange for money. Even researched the best format for pictures of himself to present on the web. Totally LIE.

Sad to say (from a romantic standpoint), his approach makes a certain kind of sense to me. $10k is not that much to pay to meet the right person. I'm sure I've exceeded that by some multiple, in the course of meeting women randomly and seeing how well we like to play together, and finding out if we have similar enough values, life goals, and methods of reaching them so that we can support each other. If he and I differ, it might be in the way that I'm enjoying finding out about who people actually are (including myself) on a case-by-case basis. I've also seen what can go wrong with his kind of approach, and I'm not in as much of a hurry as he is.

I'm amused by his six-month requirement. When I met my ex-wife, it took me about six months to decide that I could be married to her. Too bad I didn't know about Supervisory relationships then. But overall, marriage to her was a good decision at the time. But so was the divorce.

The guy probably would do best with an ESI, of course. However, which flavor of ESI? Which instinct stacking? Which economic status (not really important, if she has the right values) and can they agree on kids, where to live, what to work on, etc? Does her family and friend like him? Socionics points to a very appropriate subset of highly compatible people, but it does not capture or define everything that an individual is looking for. For that, you need hands-on experience, and you can't subcontract that out.

But that's where the fun is.

[ouronis]

Hi, Eliza.
Good call. I agree he should know who his Dual is.

This guy is obviously an LIE. Works half the day in finance, hates inefficiency, views the world as being full of opportunities, and is fine with subcontracting the job of finding a mate to someone else in exchange for money. Even researched the best format for pictures of himself to present on the web. Totally LIE.

Sad to say (from a romantic standpoint), his approach makes a certain kind of sense to me. $10k is not that much to pay to meet the right person. I'm sure I've exceeded that by some multiple, in the course of meeting women randomly and seeing how well we like to play together, and finding out if we have similar enough values, life goals, and methods of reaching them so that we can support each other. If he and I differ, it might be in the way that I'm enjoying finding out about who people actually are (including myself) on a case-by-case basis. I've also seen what can go wrong with his kind of approach, and I'm not in as much of a hurry as he is.

I'm amused by his six-month requirement. When I met my ex-wife, it took me about six months to decide that I could be married to her. Too bad I didn't know about Supervisory relationships then. But overall, marriage to her was a good decision at the time. But so was the divorce.

The guy probably would do best with an ESI, of course. However, which flavor of ESI? Which instinct stacking? Which economic status (not really important, if she has the right values) and can they agree on kids, where to live, what to work on, etc? Does her family and friend like him? Socionics points to a very appropriate subset of highly compatible people, but it does not capture or define everything that an individual is looking for. For that, you need hands-on experience, and you can't subcontract that out.

But that's where the fun is.

I think the proper way to think about this is: 10k is not much, but I think you shouldn't expect to find the love of your life even if it's six months. Minor things can go wrong and dull you towards wanting the big time deal. This is a stop gap measure most likely. Of course there's always the chance he finds his one true love, but no, at best, this is an interesting diversion that will teach him something about himself but not the final result.

Of course if he gives his prospective gf another 10k, then who's to say what can happen?

[Eliza Thomason]

Thanks for the comments, @Adam Strange . You probably picked him right since he is your type. And I will have to take more notice of what you write, since I endeavor to be better at recognizing ENTj-type, the type I feel least knowledgeable about... I must have ENTj's in my life somewhere but I am so far blind to it.

When I read this article I wondered, "What type would do that?" and you gave good reasons what/why. Hopefully he will find a nice ISFj and be happy. If he meets two or three eligible ISFjs, odds are one of them would be fairly compatible as far as subtypes and stackings and values and goals - and duality can do the rest. Although, what will help him most is if someone could identify which of the "candidates" are ISFj.

I know. Maybe someone here at 16types can offer to VI-consult for him (combined with reading what they have to say, or have them take personality type tests...)

P.S. I am curious, did you marry an INFp or an ISTp??? Curious because I'm guessing INFp, as the INFp would have the insight to realize "this is never going to get better" and cut loose, while maybe the ISTp would hang in there for the long haul anyway. (I was married to my Benefactor ESFj... that ended with the typical Benefit ending, according to what they say - Benefactor left for someone else [truly a "favor" for me, affirmed my priest at the time]. And now I have been blessed to marry my ISTp Dual and life is a LOT better! (I did not discover Socionics till after I discovered and fell for him!).

[Adam Strange]

Thanks for the comments, @Adam Strange . You probably picked him right since he is your type. And I will have to take more notice of what you write, since I endeavor to be better at recognizing ENTj-type, the type I feel least knowledgeable about... I must have ENTj's in my life somewhere but I am so far blind to it.

Hi, Eliza.
I'm pretty sure he is LIE, or ENTj. I'm sure enough to bet money on it, and for me, that's pretty sure.
I'm not sure why you'd want to meet more ENTj's - they can be assertive jerks if they're not tempered by experience, and can be even if they are. I will say that I'm met two ENFp's (my ex-wife's sister and a woman at the gym) and they are both wonderful people. They make great friends to an ENTj. I think it's that Benefit thing, but to me it feels exactly like I like them because they are warm, friendly, and sensible. SpongeBob SquarePants on the outside, but very serious on the inside.

When I read this article I wondered, "What type would do that?" and you gave good reasons what/why. Hopefully he will find a nice ISFj and be happy. If he meets two or three eligible ISFjs, odds are one of them would be fairly compatible as far as subtypes and stackings and values and goals - and duality can do the rest. Although, what will help him most is if someone could identify which of the "candidates" are ISFj.

Realistically, I'm not sure that would help him. He might not like ISFj's, and has too many women applying for the position for him to spend enough time with any single ISFj to discover how great they are. I met many ISFj's in high school and college, and I slept with a woman whom I'm pretty sure was ISFj before I met my ex-wife, and I wasn't attracted enough to any of them to marry them. I was (and am) extremely ambitious and I do not make decisions based on how I feel about things, just like the guy doing the advertising, and I had a list of items the woman I would marry needed to meet. That list included things like, must be extremely intelligent, have red hair, be thin, be nearly my height (plus or minus), must work in a field of science that was not Physics, and must be a good mother. It took a lot of looking to find her, but note that "making me feel happy when I was around her" was not on that list. I was ignoring the importance of my feelings, but then, I had no understanding of Duality or my feelings at that time. I'll bet that the guy advertising for a wife is in exactly the same boat.

I know. Maybe someone here at 16types can offer to VI-consult for him (combined with reading what they have to say, or have them take personality type tests...)

That might work. It would be the best thing someone could do for him. Personally, I would want more than $10k to do it (maybe $20k - he's in finance) and would make a good case for why my results are worth the money - with a guarantee of three years of happiness or half his money back, but then I'm busy doing things I like and am not that interested in helping him. but maybe someone else can try. But, they should be aware that very few ENTj's believe in psychological testing, and there is that initial Duality barrier they would have to get him to overcome. You can open a door, but you can't make a person go through it. Anyone trying to match him to his Dual would be risking their time with no guaranteed payoff, and would have to work hard enough that they would earn the money.

P.S. I am curious, did you marry an INFp or an ISTp??? Curious because I'm guessing INFp, as the INFp would have the insight to realize "this is never going to get better" and cut loose, while maybe the ISTp would hang in there for the long haul anyway. (I was married to my Benefactor ESFj... that ended with the typical Benefit ending, according to what they say - Benefactor left for someone else [truly a "favor" for me, affirmed my priest at the time]. And now I have been blessed to marry my ISTp Dual and life is a LOT better! (I did not discover Socionics till after I discovered and fell for him!).

Sorry, I married an ISTp. A wonderful woman, everything I wanted, and I could put up with her cool rationality, but she could not put up with my need to not be controlled, and as my Supervisor, she naturally thought everything I did was wrong. Her attempts at "correcting" me felt like control, I resisted, and she gave up. She was wonderfully steady and faithful and loving and tried to do the long haul, but I think it just got to be too difficult. Still, with the divorce settlement, she doesn't have to work, ever again, although she chooses to. One advantage of marrying an ENTj.

I'm glad to hear that you are Dualized. Neither my ex-wife's sister nor the woman at the gym are. When I got divorced, I considered trying to meet my Duals through an MBTI club that had been active locally. My ex-wife had found it while at the University. The meeting's leader was professionally promoting MBTI as a way to better understand and work with people at the University.
I contacted the woman who had been running the meetings and asked her when the next meeting would be held, because I had just gotten divorced and was interested in meeting new people. She explained that the group had stopped meeting about six months ago. We spoke for a while, and she said she was an ENFp and she was sorry to hear of my divorce, because she had also gotten divorced a few years back.
On the other hand, said the MBTI advocate, she had recently met the most wonderful man in the world and was planning to get married again. I asked her if she knew his type. She excitedly said she did. In MBTI terminology, "he is an ISTJ. I would never have expected to find my true love in my exact opposite type!"

[Adam Strange]

Of course if he gives his prospective gf another 10k, then who's to say what can happen?

Yes, who's to say what might happen? Might be interesting to watch, though.

My mother used to tell me that people who marry for money end up earning it. However, my mother was not the best person to take advice from.

[Eliza Thomason]

Thanks for the reply, Adam. I am enjoying considering how an ENTj thinks! I think in a discussion of typing, our ways (compatible Reinins maybe) are pretty compatible for discussion.

I'm pretty sure he is LIE, or ENTj. I'm sure enough to bet money on it, and for me, that's pretty sure.

I'm betting on your pick. Probably LIEs are good at typing. The intuitive with thinking, then the outward E orientation, probably makes a good typer. IEEs can be pretty good too (when I am sure, I am usually right. But my knowledge base is not big enough to be any kind of expert).

I'm not sure why you'd want to meet more ENTj's - they can be assertive jerks if they're not tempered by experience, and can be even if they are.

Assertive jerks don't really both me, generally. Negative interactions bother me, but I think LIEs don't like that either.

I will say that I've met two ENFp's (my ex-wife's sister and a woman at the gym) and they are both wonderful people. They make great friends to an ENTj. I think it's that Benefit thing, but to me it feels exactly like I like them because they are warm, friendly, and sensible. SpongeBob SquarePants on the outside, but very serious on the inside.

LOL, that's probably an accurate description! And one I have never heard the likes of. Its interesting to see how different types see different types.

Realistically, I'm not sure that would help him. He might not like ISFj's, and has too many women applying for the position for him to spend enough time with any single ISFj to discover how great they are.

You know, you have a point there. I really maybe think most of us tend to be drawn to the wrong kind when spouse-shopping. And yes, the Duals take some time to get to know. And there so many other types that are easier to know faster than one's Dual. Oh dear, that You-guy needs some help - even with 10K he is headed for trouble. Maybe you should offer to give him a hand, Adam.

I met many ISFj's in high school and college, and I slept with a woman whom I'm pretty sure was ISFj before I met my ex-wife, and I wasn't attracted enough to any of them to marry them.

I know what you mean! I look back on my sad ESE marriage and then my surprise happy meeting/marraige with my SLI and then back on my early dating years and I feel its only a gift of God that I am with my husband now. Because when dating before I married ESE, I looked for the wrong things. I liked confident extroverts, probably because my extroversion was weak due to my introversion-enforced childhood (ESI Mom, SLI Dad) but also probably because of IEEs particular (more subdued) brand of extroversion. Furthermore, I expected a man to prove his love with confident pursuit, so I probably often dated Aggressor types, as they have no problem showing their interest. However, I did, on two different occasions, have a couple longer-term close dating friendships with 2 SLIs, so I cannot say God did not try to give me the best! There was a lot of easy comfort there, touched with some really lovely romance. But I failed to recognize the "gold" I had in these relationships. In both cases, when circumstances interfered with the dating, I expected them to move mountains to be with me, and declare their love, and when they didn't, I turned my back - there were other fish in the sea. I think SLIs can be a bit "out of sight, out of mind" (so they need to know from IEE that she is still there) and also they need time to declare true love/commitment (so IEE needs to patiently wait.. or, be a "Waity Katie"). I also looked for successful guys, and also I kind of liked taller guys. ALL of the SLIs, those two I mentioned and mine now, are average height (not that I minded it) . And also I should say they are all average successful! Both of which is fine with me. My SLI has the all things that matter for the long haul, and I love him just the way he is.

I can really imagine my ESI Mom (she being the ESI I know best - and she had a very happy marriage with my SLI Dad) liking LIE. Because she admires an extroverted assertive guy who is not afraid to talk; she is delighted to listen, and she admires goal-setters and loves to hear their goals, and she so admires them when they meet their goals, and she admires intelligence expressed, and she admires success. Yeah, so I can imagine her happy with LIE. I do not know any ESI/LIE couples, but it would be interesting to see that Dual couple interact.

I was (and am) extremely ambitious and I do not make decisions based on how I feel about things, just like the guy doing the advertising, and I had a list of items the woman I would marry needed to meet. That list included things like, must be extremely intelligent, have red hair, be thin, be nearly my height (plus or minus), must work in a field of science that was not Physics, and must be a good mother.

Probably seems like a silly list, now. I had a rather silly standards, too. And yes -

t took a lot of looking to find her, but note that "making me feel happy when I was around her" was not on that list.

Yeah, that was not on my list, either! And I got what I wanted. And it turned out to be not good at all... We must be careful what we ask for, because sometimes we get it....

I was ignoring the importance of my feelings, but then, I had no understanding of Duality or my feelings at that time. I'll bet that the guy advertising for a wife is in exactly the same boat.

Yes, oh dear, not so good for the You-guy. (His last name is You).

That might work. It would be the best thing someone could do for him. Personally, I would want more than $10k to do it (maybe $20k - he's in finance) and would make a good case for why my results are worth the money - with a guarantee of three years of happiness or half his money back, but then I'm busy doing things I like and am not that interested in helping him. but maybe someone else can try. But, they should be aware that very few ENTj's believe in psychological testing, and there is that initial Duality barrier they would have to get him to overcome. You can open a door, but you can't make a person go through it. Anyone trying to match him to his Dual would be risking their time with no guaranteed payoff, and would have to work hard enough that they would earn the money.

Yes, well, like I said, you should take it on for him!

Sorry, I married an ISTp. A wonderful woman, everything I wanted, and I could put up with her cool rationality, but she could not put up with my need to not be controlled, and as my Supervisor, she naturally thought everything I did was wrong. Her attempts at "correcting" me felt like control, I resisted, and she gave up. She was wonderfully steady and faithful and loving and tried to do the long haul, but I think it just got to be too difficult. Still, with the divorce settlement, she doesn't have to work, ever again, although she chooses to. One advantage of marrying an ENTj.

Oh, okay, I was thinking - it could have also been your choice and she being your Supervisor, maybe you initiated it. But I am not trying to be nosy.

Yes, support is a nice advantage. My ESE didn't leave me comfortable, but at least paid regular child support, which is well more than what some single Moms contend with, so I was glad for that.

The fact is, Supervisee is the most psychologically damaging relationship position to be in - of all 16 different places. Its frustrating for the Supervisor, too - not being able to mold you like clay, in spite of their most diligent philanthropic efforts, which would make everything better for them - but, its even worse, much worse, for the Supervisee. It would be a true challenge to stay in such a marriage, even if both parties were quite willing, but I do think for two such determined people, willing to die to themselves, with the right path, it can be done. (Please don't think I am advising you should have done things differently; I am not).

I'm glad to hear that you are Dualized. Neither my ex-wife's sister nor the woman at the gym are.

Aw. You'll have to point out the SLIs in their life if you have an oppotunity - that they need to marry a person like that!

When I got divorced, I considered trying to meet my Duals through an MBTI club that had been active locally. My ex-wife had found it while at the University. The meeting's leader was professionally promoting MBTI as a way to better understand and work with people at the University.
I contacted the woman who had been running the meetings and asked her when the next meeting would be held, because I had just gotten divorced and was interested in meeting new people. She explained that the group had stopped meeting about six months ago. We spoke for a while, and she said she was an ENFp and she was sorry to hear of my divorce, because she had also gotten divorced a few years back.
On the other hand, said the MBTI advocate, she had recently met the most wonderful man in the world and was planning to get married again. I asked her if she knew his type. She excitedly said she did. In MBTI terminology, "he is an ISTJ. I would never have expected to find my true love in my exact opposite type!"

Oh, oh, dear. Poor, poor her. And no surprise! Opposites do attract! Oh, dear, this is sad. But not a surprise. I get along well with Conflictor ISTj/LSI's. I just realized recently that my youngest brother, long happily-married to an EIE, is LSI. We have never had a conflict, either - which is why I think I had trouble typing him for so long. Like the other LSI's in my life, there is a certain pleasant admiration Conflictors have for each other, though not a great deal of closeness.

[P.S. Why "a field of science that was not physics"??]

[Adam Strange]

Aw. You'll have to point out the SLIs in their life if you have an opportunity - that they need to marry a person like that!

No No No. They are both married, and I am not messing with their marriages. Maybe, if they happen to find themselves single again, then I will urge them toward Duality. But only if they find themselves single.

Oh, oh, dear. Poor, poor her. And no surprise! Opposites do attract! Oh, dear, this is sad. But not a surprise. I get along well with Conflictor ISTj/LSI's. I just realized recently that my youngest brother, long happily-married to an EIE, is LSI. We have never had a conflict, either - which is why I think I had trouble typing him for so long. Like the other LSI's in my life, there is a certain pleasant admiration Conflictors have for each other, though not a great deal of closeness.

No No, Eliza. You missed my meaning. She is going to marry her Dual. It is just that, in Socionics, her (and your) Dual is the SLI or ISTp, but in MBTI, that type is called ISTJ. There is a J/P switch for introverts. I thought it was ironic that a person who professionally taught classes in how to use MBTI to better get along with others didn't know either about Socionics or about Duality. According to MBTI, the man she met would have been her opposite, but in Socionics, he is her Dual, or best match. She would have advised her clients to stay far away from their opposites, and she only discovered the truth of Duality by accident.
Socionics is wonderful. MBTI, not so much.

[P.S. Why "a field of science that was not physics"??]

Physics was my specialty. I didn't want us stepping on each other's toes. I wanted a cooperative relationship, not a competitive one.

[Eliza Thomason]

No No No. They are both married, and I am not messing with their marriages. Maybe, if they happen to find themselves single again, then I will urge them toward Duality. But only if they find themselves single.

Oh, yes, of course. I thought they were single. Yes, always support marriage. (excepting recommending counsel for abused if that is the situation).

No No, Eliza. You missed my meaning. She is going to marry her Dual. It is just that, in Socionics, her (and your) Dual is the SLI or ISTp, but in MBTI, that type is called ISTJ. There is a J/P switch for introverts. I thought it was ironic that a person who professionally taught classes in how to use MBTI to better get along with others didn't know either about Socionics or about Duality. According to MBTI, the man she met would have been her opposite, but in Socionics, he is her Dual, or best match. She would have advised her clients to stay far away from their opposites, and she only discovered the truth of Duality by accident.

Aw, yes, I did miss your meaning. I do not think it is 100% ISTJ=ISTp. Its a common "miss-type" IMO - but there are plenty of ISTPs that are ISTp's. (i.e., All the people I typed as ISTP typed also as ISTp).

This discrepancy has something to do with a person's approach to typing. My approach had a lot to do with a lot of extensive reading I internalized on the meanings of MBTI, and my holistic way of taking the info in, I think. And I, in fact, always get the same typing for both MBTI and Socionics. (In other words, if I can figure their typing in MBTI, its ALWAYS the same type as Socionics - I'm not saying that I can always figure a person's type). I believe that people who get some types switched between the two are using a different MBTI typing approach than I use, and I haven't figured out what that is yet. (And its not like I am trying to figure that out. I am Result, and, unfortunately, I tend to glaze-over if someone explains a foreign Process approach, unless its told very succinctly and accurately. Perhaps if I was more Ni or Ti, I could hold interest longer).

Socionics is wonderful. MBTI, not so much.

MBTI is a useful introduction to Socionics, if that's where you are coming from, but yes, Socionics is FAR superior!

Physics was my specialty. I didn't want us stepping on each other's toes. I wanted a cooperative relationship, not a competitive one.

Oh, I see. Wow, Physics is Greek to me. My son enjoys it though! I also was hesitant to date a guy in the arts back in the day, yes, the competition area was a thought. And my dear husband now, though never an art student, has an artistic bent and I appreciate his gift a lot. Our styles and expression of our artistic sides is different, but complementary. We both are drawn to creative outlets, and I am finding that side of me easier and easier to express these days. Its like a re-birth.

It occurs to me that art classes might be a place to find an ESI. My ESI Mom minored in fine art (painting) in college (majored in English/teaching).

LOL, Adam, you said "No" FIVE times in this post. And LIE is a POSITIVIST. It reminds me of a discussion I had with @Maritsa, EII, also a Positivist. Comparing notes about ourselves, and, if I recall correctly, how we come across to others, and both of us keeping in mind the Socionics definition of Positivist/Negativist does NOT mean positive/negative in the way we normally think of it, we concluded that she is a "negative Positivist" and I am a "positive Negativist". I don't know if that resonates with you. Just your "no"'s reminded me of it.

P.S. I really appreciate your communication! It is helping me understand LIE. In fact I think I will be reading LIE articles here. Hopefully, on the way, it will help spark a realization that someone in my life is a LIE...

[Creepy-]

Based on Visual Identification, his smirk is that of an LIE / ENTj. Others appear to agree with me.