Energy drinks and caffeine

[kuno]

I never expected myself to be starting a thread about this, and I guess I don’t expect much response, but…

I notice that highly-caffeinated drinks like coffee, Red Bull, Monster, etc have been popular among people of my age group (and especially among Americans of my age) for a few decades now. Almost everyone I know absolutely loves drinking large amounts of coffee and energy drinks. I see people drinking Red Bull and Monster everywhere I go.

Am I the only one worried about this? I don’t think drinking this much of these beverages can possibly be healthy. Is the collective love of these drinks tied to toxic productivity and work culture? I’m just very worried about these trends all the time.

Whenever I mention this to people, they often brush me off, but I wish people would be open to discussing this.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

you look like me and ur a mom friend too. but a person i knew who indulged was another IEI
its definitely tied to toxic productivity and ppl's nihilism towards consequneces. they want to live and feel alive when young, maybe many of them hope they dont live enough to get old, not not caring. or think if they get an issue it would be unrelated or happen anyhow. i dont think most ppl are particularly concenrned about health. why sleep as much as u need if u can sleep less and still do the thing without completely crashing. most ppl live on auto anyway. a lot dont even think that much they just follow their impulses. prolly never developed self control caveat here is developing self control can be destructive difficult painful and should be done carefully bc u can def force it and appear as if u have self control to a lot of ppl when u actually dont. example could be people who dont do drugs but instead are extensively violent and keep building up spiteful and judgemental thought patterns instead.

[Aster]

Coffee can be good for you. So can Tea. I like drinking bai, but it doesn’t give nearly the kick that coffee does, ime

I’m not concerned about caffeine usage as much as soft drinks and not enough water.

Drinking caffeine in the evening is not good unless once in a while for a specific reason.

[kuno]

@VewyScawwyNawcissist Lol yeah, I guess I am the mom friend, and sometimes it drives me crazy! I guess I'm always on the lookout for my friends and family, always trying to make sure they're taking care of themselves. Maybe I worry too much haha.

Everything you've said makes sense to me and feels like a direct answer to some of the hunches, fears, and questions I've had. The term nihilism seems to describe this way/view of life pretty well, and it's a philosophy I've always struggled to comprehend.

While it's certainly good to be productive, I don't understand why so many young people seem to eschew the idea of relaxing and resting. It seems to me to be just as important as working hard. I've burnt myself out both in school and at work to the point of being forced to see just how valuable rest is. Nowadays I don't take rest so lightly, and I do like to think it's helped me health-wise. Sometimes it's better to just conserve your energy, if possible. I guess, as you said, some people just don't care about health very much, and would rather just do things so long as they don't crash.

However, while it seems like lots of people around me don't think the same as I do, I also feel like I can't judge them too much for this. I believe our society places too many demands on people, and no one feels as if they have enough time to meet these demands, so they take to unhealthy methods to prolong their days. It's understandable, but it still concerns me. None of this lifestyle feels sustainable to me, in the long run. And personally, I'm no longer willing to burn myself out.

The whole thing about wanting to live and feel alive while being young also worries me. I guess I've just never felt the need to "feel alive." I wonder where this desire comes from.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

i believe most of our experiences are done throuhg imagination/abstraction. good example is real love. a fake love would be based on that someone is not doing the thing u want from them but u dont realize u are using them and dont understand their position in life and what they can and cant do, waht is fair. and people thinking they are in love just bc they are horny or have some unreasoned fantasy thne someone does a thing they really shouldnt have but they didnt care enough or were too stupid to cognize for their partner (i believe u can get smarter even if its diffficult depending on circumstance) and or the other party gets unreasonagbly mad bc of their unreasoned narcissitic fantasy. then someone can feel fulfilled from an activity another one wouldnt bc their mind cant hold it in abstractly. like any time u do something, u are in it as long as ur doing it and its fun but when its done, its like u are plunged into horrible insufferable darkness. if u had imagination and control (genuine control over ur body which is very rare i belive) in various ways u could experience and understand many things and parts of reality while having control over them, and then take calculated actions in reality where u avoid frustration or solve challenges that would seem impossible to someone without ur abilities. i believe most ppl's minds see the world as something chaotic, painful that they dont understand that seems ot betray them and they have some biased views about how it works which work against them which they could deal much easier if they had understanding health etc which all goes to CONTROL. like andrew tate says if u have no control u are just a leaf in the wind so ur just feeling beaten down by everything thats happening while also that u might die before u have even understood or done anything meaningful or lived a life worth living.
theres also broing people who justify meaningless existence and are fine with anything. some of them are actually intersting but still justify the boring thing and even things like human sacrifice if its necessary (i dont want to believe its necessary or unavoidable). big part of why someone may not feel alive is poor health and a lot of stress. and if u want to fix ur health u may fix it in some ways but it will be stressful and sometimes not even sustainable bc life throws curveballs u get poor out of nowhere or some bad situation now u have to give up ur health and overwork urself AGAIN and then ahve to destroy the bad habits formed during that time AGAIN or learn how to control so u dont form them despite what u have to do in the adversity. which in itself may take too much space in ur brain (if it even works like that) which will just make u more and more dissociated from reality and ur experiences. like u have to fight so hard just to bear the bs in a neutral way what about actually feeling alive.
they havent even solved their existential dread and have no time for that or so it seems.

[kuno]

Coffee can be good for you. So can Tea. I like drinking bai, but it doesn’t give nearly the kick that coffee does, ime

I’m not concerned about caffeine usage as much as soft drinks and not enough water.

Drinking caffeine in the evening is not good unless once in a while for a specific reason.

Yeah, I'm not very concerned about coffee consumption unless it's excessive. If people want caffeine, I'd rather they take to coffee than soda or energy drinks. Coffee actually has health benefits. I don't think tea's caffeine levels are quite as high, are they? I'm never quite as worried about tea. I can't even think of any health risks tea may pose, unless one sweetens their tea too much.

Consumption of alcohol also concerns me, but I don't feel like I can touch that subject very much because alcohol just seems to be so ingrained into human history, there's no point in arguing about how healthy or unhealthy it is. It'll always be around. People are well aware and have always been aware of alcohol's adverse effects for ages. They just drink to have a good time, to loosen up, and to forget about reality just for a little while. Maybe it's the same principle with energy drinks, to a lesser extent. Some people just genuinely enjoy them, and I can never argue against that, at the end of the day.

But also, I don't want to sound like a health nut. If someone does enjoy a Red Bull once in a while, nothing wrong with that, I think. It's the excess that worries me.

[AWellArmedCat]

I never expected myself to be starting a thread about this, and I guess I don’t expect much response, but…

I notice that highly-caffeinated drinks like coffee, Red Bull, Monster, etc have been popular among people of my age group (and especially among Americans of my age) for a few decades now. Almost everyone I know absolutely loves drinking large amounts of coffee and energy drinks. I see people drinking Red Bull and Monster everywhere I go.

Am I the only one worried about this? I don’t think drinking this much of these beverages can possibly be healthy. Is the collective love of these drinks tied to toxic productivity and work culture? I’m just very worried about these trends all the time.

Whenever I mention this to people, they often brush me off, but I wish people would be open to discussing this.

I have heard the toxic productivity hypothesis before, and I'd say I only find it partially convincing. While I'm sure it's about productivity for some people, I think it's simpler than that in most cases. It just feels good to ingest caffeine. Much like it just feels good to ingest any stimulant. It's just like weak cocaine. Some people do it because they think it will make them more productive, but in most cases it's just that it's fun to do and creates a dependence. I think the productivity hypothesis is probably one of the reasons it's a socially accepted stimulant, but less of a reason when it comes to why people who drink it do so. I love coffee and would be drinking it regardless of whether or not I had to do any work. Same with energy drinks.

Also CGPGrey has a pretty good video about coffee

In my own research I also found that the negatives don't really seem to be that serious compared to the positives of coffee and more generally caffeine consumption. Obviously if consumption is excessive it can become a problem, but you really have to consume an incredible amount for it to get that serious. It's not a big deal in normal quantities.

That being said, I probably consume larger than normal quantities. I doubt it's great for my health, but neither is alcohol, tobacco, or weed, and I enjoy all of those things too lol

I'll take my quality of life over quantity any day. I don't have any pressing need or desire to reach much past my 70s lol

[kuno]

@AWellArmedCat Thank you so much for that educational video, as well as providing your own opinion! I feel like I often need to hear other perspectives before I get too stuck in my own mindsets. It's also a bit comforting to know that perhaps the love of caffeine isn't mostly only tied to productivity, but rather actual enjoyment. I get tired of the whole expectation of having to endanger one's health to be productive.

Also, I've learned about the benefits of caffeine before, but I always forget things I learn about, so the video was a nice refresher. I'm still skeptical of most energy drinks, though.

That being said, I probably consume larger than normal quantities. I doubt it's great for my health, but neither is alcohol, tobacco, or weed, and I enjoy all of those things too lol

I'll take my quality of life over quantity any day. I don't have any pressing need or desire to reach much past my 70s lol

Lmaooo, well that's valid. Personally, I've never been as bothered by the notion of drinking coffee as I am bothered by the notion of doing drugs. I'm very preoccupied with keeping myself as healthy as possible because I find that dealing with health problems to be very stressful and anxiety-inducing. But I'm also just a hypochondriac, so there's that, haha.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Caffeine in moderation is OK for me. I drink a lot of tea and that works out. Drinking a lot of caffeine all at once, the amount that's in energy drinks, makes me feel tired and disassociated.

[kuno]

@FreelancePoliceman To be fair, tea is probably the best drink to have regularly, next to plain water.

Also, after that video AWellArmedCat sent, I don't think I'm as worried about more natural caffeinated drinks (namely coffee) anymore as I am about energy drinks lol. But same; too much caffeine only tires me out and makes me feel dead inside.

[Metamorph]

I'm never quite as worried about tea. I can't even think of any health risks tea may pose, unless one sweetens their tea too much.

Fluorosis. You have to drink gallons of tea for it to be a concern, but many people do and they get fluorosis.

Skeletal Fluorosis Related to Habitual Tea Consumption: Long-Term Follow-Up After Reduction and Discontinuation of Tea - ScienceDirect

[kuno]

Fluorosis. You have to drink gallons of tea for it to be a concern, but many people do and they get fluorosis.

Skeletal Fluorosis Related to Habitual Tea Consumption: Long-Term Follow-Up After Reduction and Discontinuation of Tea - ScienceDirect

Well, well! So tea isn't the drink of Eden I thought it was... Sad to note, but at least fluorosis isn't all that bad of a side effect.

Slightly off topic, but I have a friend who has small white stains on some of his teeth that I've always wondered about. Looking up pictures of dental fluorosis, I believe it might be that. You are a fountain of information!

[aixelsyd]

Many energy drinks contain taurine which isn't great for your heart. Full Throttle does not contain taurine but the sugar can be problematic nonetheless. Coffee is actually good and is good for the liver. One or two cups a day is recommended and ideally without sugar or cream (I put oatmilk and cinnamon in mine tho I used to drink it black like a psycopath). Tea is excellent. I am particularly a fan of oolong tea and gunpowder tea. Obviously too much tea can kill you but, as said, it has to be really excessive.

I always listen to my body not that it prohibits me from making poor choices in consumption, but if I drink a pot of coffee in a day, I feel like utter shit. Your body will tell you when too much is too much.

[kuno]

@aixelsyd It’s the taurine and the high amounts of sugar that worry me most when it comes to the energy drinks, as well as their (usually) excessive amounts of caffeine. But at the end of the day, I’m trying to take a long vacation from the position of being the “mom friend,” as I realize that most people around me are adults and can make whatever decisions they want. So if they want to drink a lot of energy drinks, it’s truly none of my business lol. Plus, as you said, I’m sure they also listen to their bodies‘ signals, so they’ll likely be okay.

(I put oatmilk and cinnamon in mine tho I used to drink it black like a psycopath).

Lol Black coffee is very healthy, so I can never say anything against that, aside from perhaps the strong flavor—but that’s just taste, and I can’t argue against tastes.

I’ve never been able to get into coffee nor tea, admittedly, as I’ve personally never taken well to hot drinks (or strongly caffeinated drinks, in the case of regular coffee), but I respect them—especially tea, as it has cured me of hiccups and remedied some slight sicknesses I’ve had many a time in the past.

[Bethanyclaire]

I love tea so much I would die for tea.

I accidentally bought organic milk and it’s extra nice this morn.

I’d really like to cut down to one cup a day/one coffee. I agree with @AWellArmedCat I like caffeine because it makes me feel good/like I have energy in my body. But I’m quite sensitive to it and I’m not sure it’s helpful all the time- if I need to do boring admin I’m not sure a tea helps. Maybe coffee has a slower more steady release. My brother says I have my tea strong but I thought it was normal

I like the taste of both. I also like lemon/ginger and mint.

tea/coffee can easily make me feel a little too intoxicated lol. Like I stop functioning as well but I can just about appear to be ok outwardly..IPs living on the edge lol

I think my teeth are getting a bit stained so I don’t know maybe I’ll have to give it up! Or drink with an straw- no!!!

[kuno]

@Bethany My dad is a regular coffee drinker, and he drinks anywhere from 3-4 cups a day. A few months ago he tried to cut down to one cup a day, and he still hasn’t managed it! Whenever he stops drinking his regular amount of coffee, he tends to end up with horrible headaches and a permanent cranky mood. The drink has a tight hold over him, haha. He realized it was staining his teeth a few years ago, so ever since then he always drinks his coffee with a straw.

My dad is very particular about the kind that he buys. He typically only buys Starbucks brand coffee to brew at home.

Best of luck to you in your coffee and tea adventures! Try not to sweat the small stains

[sudo]

Am I the only one worried about this?

I wish.

I don’t think drinking this much of these beverages can possibly be healthy.

It is easier to ignore these things when the effects are not so immediate. Some others will deny that the risks exist. Still others simply don't care about their health.

Is the collective love of these drinks tied to toxic productivity and work culture?

People like stimulants in general. It helps that they taste better to the general soda-consuming public than coffee, tea, and certainly caffeine pills. A company might take advantage of these facts and install a vending machine filled with monsters like they currently often do with coffee machines, but their invention likely had little to do with work culture. Anecdotally, most of the caffeine addicts I know barely work at all.

[kuno]

Anecdotally, most of the caffeine addicts I know barely work at all.

Haha, interesting! Well, I’m glad most people seem to be supporting the idea that the love of these drinks is at least due to sincere enjoyment and not crazy productivity standards.

But I guess it is a little disheartening to know that most people don’t care about taking care of themselves. Though in terms of that, I’d be more worried about alcohol than energy drinks, as energy drinks’ harm is usually just confined to the individual consuming the energy drink. And really, if a person doesn’t care about their own health, then that’s none of my concern, really. But someone who drinks too much alcohol is liable to put others in danger as much as themselves, whether it be because they’re a violent drunk, because they’re going to get on the road while drunk, etc.

I guess I just wish people would be more conscientious overall. But what can ya do?

[pixie dreams]

I used to be an avid energy drink enjoyer. I would even go to say I had a slight addiction to them (2-3 drinks a day or week). They were popular among the crowd I was in and yeah, I was an impressionable kid. I didn't care if it gave me excessive energy I just thought it made me look "cooler" despite how dumb that sounds. Can't believe I pushed my body through that with workouts and everything ☠️

I think you have every right to be concerned for your friend's health because at a certain point it can be blamed on toxic work and productivity culture but it can also be a small sign that something else lurks underneath the surface. Or maybe I'm reading too deep into it but the choice is yours to ask about

[The Sublime Relianum]

Coming from someone who actually overdosed on caffeine, I don't see the problem. 3 a day ain't shit. Rookie numbers. I think only kids who's parents restricted them from caffeine will see energy drinks as cool. But better for them to be slamming caffeine than Benzedrex.

[pasleine]

i think people get too little free time, and caffeine is a measured way of self-destructing while doing the "work that society asked for" it's like an ironic drug that boosts your "productivity" (aka openness to dumb shit u wouldn't want to deal with otherwise). these days the split between home and work is not clearly defined and people seem to never feel like what they do is enough

[adage]

I have heard people say they need coffee and/or energy drinks to stay up for gaming into the night, as a kick to stay awake for school and/or work, but never have I heard someone claim to really just like it.
Tho, coffee is kind of the official morning/daily ritual for most adults where I live, but some prefer caffeine-free coffee.
I also heard a guy who chugged energy drinks on a dare.
It seems to me to be linked to productivity and, in the case of coffee, routine.
There's also an aspect of social expectation, it's normal and when you don't, people find it weird, it's like they cannot fathom a life without those drinks daily or close.
Anyway, that's just my own observations, stuff stinks and I try to stay far.

[DogOfDanger]

toxic productivity and work culture... what a luxury to be able think in these terms.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I don't view it from a productive angle really, I am just miserable without at least one cup of coffee a day. The basic normie bitch that's like 'don't talk to me until I've had my coffee' is relateable for a reason, okay. And yeah I like to get things done in my own way. I could care less if I disobey some tryhard LSE with an authority complex - but I hate it when I sabotage my own goals. That just feels bad, Te polr or not.

I stay away from energy drinks and monster drinks and energy drinks marketed for esport players. I've tried them before but they tend to make my heart race too fast. Maybe coffee does too, but I feel too comatose without it- and just too lethargic. Plus coffee has antioxidants and helps you take a shit, so there.

I don't like any coffee creamer or sweeteners in my coffee though, I just like it straight and black. Reminds me of that funny joke on Landover baptist where they pretended to make fun of gays and had that white trash fauxtian bitch saying "anybody who puts anything in their cup of joe isn't a real man." I guess in that sense I'm a macho str8 Chad lol. I mean occassionally I will drink flavored coffee but I don't really like it as much as the regular stuff.

[aixelsyd]

I work 3rd shift and caffeine is essential. Unfortunately it can make me more prone to UTIs which I deal with a lot. Waiting on a shipment of preleaf to take before drinking caffeine to help prevent it causing another UTI. This shit sucks

[Ave]

I'll read the responses later, but I drink caffeine basically on a daily basis, tea, coffee, or coke zero. I feel lethargic without it, not sure why. I don't think the amounts I consume are excessive. I don't have much of an idea about the health impacts, but I suspect energy drinks like Monster also contain colorants, flavors, and other garbage which might be a bigger health hazard than caffeine itself, and I stay away from them.

[Squirrel]

If you look around you, you will find that today's human behaviors in food feild are unhealthy

Fast food, energy drinks, drugs, sweets, etc

[Popcorn]

I never expected myself to be starting a thread about this, and I guess I don’t expect much response, but…

I notice that highly-caffeinated drinks like coffee, Red Bull, Monster, etc have been popular among people of my age group (and especially among Americans of my age) for a few decades now. Almost everyone I know absolutely loves drinking large amounts of coffee and energy drinks. I see people drinking Red Bull and Monster everywhere I go.

Am I the only one worried about this? I don’t think drinking this much of these beverages can possibly be healthy. Is the collective love of these drinks tied to toxic productivity and work culture? I’m just very worried about these trends all the time.

Whenever I mention this to people, they often brush me off, but I wish people would be open to discussing this.

When you're ready to sit around on your ass, move your hands, and stare at a screen, don't forget to energize with a
G-Fuel-Header.jpg

[Grendel]

Coffee contains an opioid antagonist called caffeoyl-quinide that's separate from the caffeine it contains, and which ime produces pretty unpleasant effects and may even cancel-out some of the effectiveness of the caffeine anyway. It's tempted me at times to quit coffee completely in favor of alternative caffeine sources, but cola is much more obviously bad for your health in the long term, and more dedicated caffeine-focused energy drinks like red bull have more intense caffeine dosages that I might not necessarily want all the time.


All the woo about supposed health benefits of coffee should be regarded with pretty high scrutiny, imo, due to the odds that a lot of it might be fabricated shilling by the coffee lobby.

[Metamorph]

Coffee contains an opioid antagonist called caffeoyl-quinide that's separate from the caffeine it contains, and which ime produces pretty unpleasant effects and may even cancel-out some of the effectiveness of the caffeine anyway. It's tempted me at times to quit coffee completely in favor of alternative caffeine sources, but cola is much more obviously bad for your health in the long term, and more dedicated caffeine-focused energy drinks like red bull have more intense caffeine dosages that I might not necessarily want all the time.


All the woo about supposed health benefits of coffee should be regarded with pretty high scrutiny, imo, due to the odds that a lot of it might be fabricated shilling by the coffee lobby.

If opioids are so bad, opioid antagonists sound good. Just feel all your pain all the time. Give coffee to people who are addicted to opioids and maybe they'll get off it.

[Psychoblimp]

I've reduced from 3 cups of coffee to 1 cup of coffee and two cups of black tea and if I need more to consume (orally fixated) I'll have a cup of either hot water or some other non-caffeinated tea.

[Grendel]

If opioids are so bad, opioid antagonists sound good. Just feel all your pain all the time. Give coffee to people who are addicted to opioids and maybe they'll get off it.

Exogenous opioids are bad. The opioids your brain naturally makes? Good, when it's making them at the appropriate times. Exogenous opioids are bad for the same reason exogenous opioid antagonists are bad. It's a critical enough system that it becomes incredibly dangerous to subject it to an external locus of control in either direction, rather than an internal locus. If the body didn't make opioids or some opioid equivalent, then the brain wouldn't have a receptor responsive to it, would it?

The problem is that it's coming from the outside, not from inside of you. You aren't controlling it, and that's where the damage is done.

[lookin4waifu]

I simply ask my mistress to whip me when I need the energy. @one

[lookin4waifu]

Also to trample on deez nuts

[Metamorph]

Drink Coffee? Off With Your Head! : The Salt : NPR

Sultan Murad IV is our hero!

How Turkish coffee destroyed an empire | The Economist

I don't have an Economist subscription, but I really wish I did now. Turkish coffee destroyed the Ottoman Empire and American coffee destroyed America. Whenever you see someone with their Starbucks, Dunkin', or McDonald's coffee, just say: you did this.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I never expected myself to be starting a thread about this, and I guess I don’t expect much response, but…

I notice that highly-caffeinated drinks like coffee, Red Bull, Monster, etc have been popular among people of my age group (and especially among Americans of my age) for a few decades now. Almost everyone I know absolutely loves drinking large amounts of coffee and energy drinks. I see people drinking Red Bull and Monster everywhere I go.

Am I the only one worried about this? I don’t think drinking this much of these beverages can possibly be healthy. Is the collective love of these drinks tied to toxic productivity and work culture? I’m just very worried about these trends all the time.

Whenever I mention this to people, they often brush me off, but I wish people would be open to discussing this.

Processed foods make up close to 70 percent of the U.S. diet.

+





Coincidence? I think not.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Americans don't just love them, they are generally dependent on them. They see the drinks as necessary because they don't feel right without them. The average American also doesn't get enough nutrition, since the food is horrible for you. There is a reason so many foods and food processing methods that are allowed in the USA are banned in other countries. Even so-called “healthy” American food isn't actually healthy anymore in the USA, and it's also usually too expensive (tend to shop at the store, "Whole Foods," anyone?). Americans are essentially self-medicating with energy drinks/caffeine. They're blind to it because they're kept in the dark and fed misleading information by greedy corporations. The deceit of those corporations serves as security for their monetary profit. Their lack of education about the rest of the globe (partly stemming from not really having many neighbors the way other countries do) makes them particularly vulnerable to said misinformation. Even those who think they're eating healthy, aren't.

[Metamorph]

Americans don't just love them, they are generally dependent on them. They see the drinks as necessary because they don't feel right without them. The average American also doesn't get enough nutrition, since the food is horrible for you. There is a reason so many foods and food processing methods that are allowed in the USA are banned in other countries. Even so-called “healthy” American food isn't actually healthy anymore in the USA, and it's also usually too expensive (tend to shop at the store, "Whole Foods," anyone?). Americans are essentially self-medicating with energy drinks/caffeine. They're blind to it because they're kept in the dark and fed misleading information by greedy corporations. The deceit of those corporations serves as security for their monetary profit. Their lack of education about the rest of the globe (partly stemming from not really having many neighbors the way other countries do) makes them particularly vulnerable to said misinformation. Even those who think they're eating healthy, aren't.

Yes and Europeans and Brits eat pure prions with their black pudding and head cheese obsessions. I don't think it's a coincident that Europe has had so many BSA problems to the point they're not allowed to donate blood in many cases and virtually no one else has. On the other hand Americans' McDonald's-filled heart attack lard blood is generally safe for donation. America has lots of problems but I wouldn't romanticize other countries' food too much. Americans of all people shouldn't have to depend too much on food economies because for the most part the systems set up by the Native Americans still seem to exist plus some useful, albeit invasive, foreign plants such as dandelion have been introduced. If malnutrition is such an issue, going outside and eating the weeds and some cicadas is easier in America than anywhere and in America out of all countries hunting and fishing are more associated with "hicks" than with "posh" people. The American land is so full of abundance it's disappointing how people just aren't taking advantage of it, doing a lot more agriculture and botany and zoology, and providing for themselves more. Farming has been nearly completely vilified though, to the point even gardening can seem kind of weird to many people. Well, of course farming is vilified, even the words "villain" and "vilified" mean rustic and are related to the word villa.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Yes and Europeans and Brits eat pure prions with their black pudding and head cheese obsessions. I don't think it's a coincident that Europe has had so many BSA problems to the point they're not allowed to donate blood in many cases and virtually no one else has. On the other hand Americans' McDonald's-filled heart attack lard blood is generally safe for donation. America has lots of problems but I wouldn't romanticize other countries' food too much. Americans of all people shouldn't have to depend too much on food economies because for the most part the systems set up by the Native Americans still seem to exist plus some useful, albeit invasive, foreign plants such as dandelion have been introduced. If malnutrition is such an issue, going outside and eating the weeds and some cicadas is easier in America than anywhere and in America out of all countries hunting and fishing are more associated with "hicks" than with "posh" people. The American land is so full of abundance it's disappointing how people just aren't taking advantage of it, doing a lot more agriculture and botany and zoology, and providing for themselves more. Farming has been nearly completely vilified though, to the point even gardening can seem kind of weird to many people. Well, of course farming is vilified, even the words "villain" and "vilified" mean rustic and are related to the word villa.

You postulate many things, and your logic is flawed.

[Metamorph]

You postulate many things, and your logic is flawed.