Are people with 4 year college degrees less analytical, less reflective in their thinking than those without them?

[Disturbed]

I'm beginning to think the answer is yes.

I've been thinking that instead of going to college people should look at the internet and take some time out for themselves to think and do new experiences some other ways, keep their eyes and ears open, and think deeply about those experiences than go to college. Licensing is a huge problem, it helps men more than women; women are hurt by regulations more than men are.

Going to college makes so many people think you're smart, but I kind of think of people with degrees as no smarter because they performed to other peoples' standards or what people expected of them rather than their own. If people keep doing that, then there will be less change, regulations will continue to protect the established corporations, and everyone will be dependent on popular opinion, unable to think for themselves. My older brother and his EIE-Ni wife have already started college savings accounts for their kids like idiots (they were among the most unaware of the advantages and disadvantages of technologies and very concerned with their position in society)... they didn't take into account that by the time their kids are college age, college might not be around, or it probably won't be cool and that the younger one would be unhappy (she's a logical type and doesn't like pleasing people like the older EIE-Ni daughter does), especially at a full 4 year one.

So I admire people who didn't rely on popular opinion; most of the good things in this world were started by people who didn't conform to popular opinion. And popular opinion could one day be that college isn't necessary and that the internet, experiences, and early critical thinking courses or lessons were better.

This thread was intended to get people thinking and discussing, debating if they feel like it. Maybe they won't, but anyway...

[Toro]

Depends on what they went to school for and why.

[aixelsyd]

Part of the goal of college is to help people become better critical thinkers and I am inclined to agree that some of the methods work, particularly in essay assignments and research assignments. So I disagree.

[Dreymagine]

I've been thinking that instead of going to college people should look at the internet and take some time out for themselves to think and do new experiences some other ways, keep their eyes and ears open, and think deeply about those experiences than go to college.

It depends on your career aspirations. I'd never secure and retain a job as a high-school English teacher without a degree, at least not in my state. Not conforming to popular opinion is awesome, but from a pragmatic perspective you do have to conform to the required credentials of your desired position (especially if those requirements are at least partially supported by the law, such as in the case of teachers).

I don't understand the motivations/reasoning of people who spend tens of thousands on art, music, creative writing, or theatre degrees, though. In artistic fields, getting hired isn't about credentials; it's about talent. From what I understand, most aspiring artists, musicians, writers, and actors would be better off going the self-taught route, as well as taking advantage of free (or more affordable) learning opportunities as they become available—a chance to audit a relevant college class, a chance to take a highly reviewed and affordable online course, a chance to play a part in a local program and receive constructive criticism from the director, a chance to enter an contest or talent show, a chance to hear the tips of a talented art YouTuber, etc.

If you want to be your own boss / an entrepreneur, it seems like the same kinda story. Your credentials aren't what matter; it's your ability to start and effectively run the business. From what I understand, you'd be better off going self-taught with the internet as a resource, auditing relevant college courses, taking an affordable online course to master a particular subject/skill, etc. You gotta be careful with online courses, though; some are definitely scams.

And of course, it's a good idea to consider alternative forms of postsecondary education (2-year tech school, cosmetic school, etc.) if they apply to what you want to do. It's still postsecondary education, but it requires a much shorter time commitment (and the tuition might be more affordable on average as well, haven't looked into that).

[Dreymagine]

Part of the goal of college is to help people become better critical thinkers and I am inclined to agree that some of the methods work, particularly in essay assignments and research assignments. So I disagree.

Yeah, agreed. A lot of college writing assignments have forced me to think critically to extent that I seldom did throughout high school.

[Dreymagine]

the money in college savings accounts could be used for other things too.

Yeah, true. Regardless of what that couple's kids decide to do, the extra savings are gonna be helpful. It's definitely a stretch to label them as idiots because of this; the only thing it indicates is that they're invested in their kids' futures.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Going to college is still the better option because the better jobs still have requirement points of entry where they won't even look at you for something unless you are properly qualified. (Eek Te!) But people definitely need to stop the mentality that simply going to college and getting good marks means anything other than temporarily being the Illuminati's Slave. There comes a time in life where you have to be more than a good student or observer, fortune favors the bold and those that push through and you have to fight and tackle what you want often- if you don't know a person well enough that can get you in comfortably somewhere, you still have to fight for what you want and what you deserve it won't just be handed to you just because you got a degree and jumped through the intellectual loopholes. I don't know I think some boomer middle class families still have that naive perception or something.

It is kind of cruel because academia often rewards subservience and introversion and submissive personality type Bs but the 'real world' it's the opposite and it tends to favor Type A assholes who know how to push the right external obstacles out of the way at the right time etc. I was reading something about people who practice medicine- something like 80% of the pre-meds quit when they have to do the field work because they aren't cut out for it/can't stomach it/and are too shy and soft to push past those social barriers to be competent enough at it.

It seems to matter little in America in a way because people are way too conned by confidence, if you just act like a confident asshole you can do almost anything- you don't have to be good at it or like the bare minimum. I mean from what I know Tom Hanks quit college to become a high paying celebirty it doesn't mean it's feasible for the average person but things like that do happen- making the entire academic system/qualification degree thing feel 'useless' to many people in a sense. And the system is cruel and kinda designed for scapegoats/somebody else to take the fall if the narcisisstic blowhard gets caught. It really is fucked up- and then like being on welfare/social security rewards people for not working or literally being a 'breeder' often more than getting a regular middle class job and often feels unnecessary unless you can get something at the very top. There is definitely screwy things wrong with the system where they should help people out more when they are working and encourage people to work more instead of making life so horrible for the people at the bottom of the totem poles.

Starting your own business is cool I think as long as a person has realistic prospects of that - I've seen small business owners get so disapointed that they aren't some narcissist on the cover of O magazine. Not that it couldn't happen- but if a person does start their business, they still must realize it's work and often they are the ones that hear about the complaints or have to follow certain legal rules and guidelines they might not want to.

[FreelancePoliceman]

In the States education through undergrad is pretty shit almost anywhere you go. The idea that college makes you a better critical thinker or opens you to new ideas is largely overblown IMO. If you're naturally inquisitive and read very much there are probably few ideas you'll encounter that will be very surprising. OTOH if you haven't been exposed to many ideas at all for whatever reason I guess there can be some benefit. There aren't really other institutions that can provide something similar. If you don't have the inclination to read broadly on your own or talk to many different sorts of people, college is probably your best shot toward broadening your experience of the world, as terrible as it may be.

People who identify strongly with their educational credentials though are generally insufferable and generally mediocre at best. This obnoxiously middling sort of person has historically been the most susceptible to propaganda and is probably the kind of person the OP is referring to.

[AWellArmedCat]

I'm inclined to think it has little to do with college, and a lot more to do with dogmatic types finding things to believe and cling to there. I'm sure if they didn't go they'd just find something else to cling to. Maybe religion. I have a 4 year psych degree with an anthropology minor, and I feel like generally my classes taught me to be very critical. Talking to my friends though it sounds like the digital arts and culture department is the real neolib hivemind. I'm sure what major you pick also has some effect. That being said, I did feel after getting my degree like I needed to go out and actually experience things. I grew up very sheltered. So I packed up and moved to Japan, where I've been for almost 3 years. I'd definitely recommend people live abroad for awhile at some point in their life. I think that helps give you a lot of perspective with which to analyze your own culture

[ouronis]

People with degrees are probably smarter than those without degrees on average and have higher potential for creative, personal thought (because they are being educated on and exposed to "higher" ideas than someone who didn't go and may develop a "spark" because of something they're exposed to) than those that don't. But it is true that going to college doesn't give you those traits (unless the college is built around that and actively instills it in its structure. I would say a lot of colleges do this, but the quality and pervasiveness of it probably varies widely). You probably either have to come from a background where it's encouraged (I'm a fan of John Dewey's take;take) and/or have a genetic or personality-based predisposition towards it, regardless of whether you go to college (again unless something you learn in college sparks further or lifelong interest).

[xerx]

Going to college shouldn't make you feel smarter or superior. However, if you take a degree in something like the mathematical sciences, it can make you feel like a mediocre idiot compared to history's greatest thinkers.

[Disturbed]

Well, see when I was in college, I got my information from the internet... I was a political science major, and the professors didn't agree with my libertarian opinions.

I had pretty much signed up for college because I didn't want to leave school settings so early... I didn't feel like I was prepared to and my mom kept pressuring me to, so I just decided to go through with college. I didn't agree with hardly anything the professors said though and except for maybe one or two in the department of my major, the professors didn't think I was a standout student or very smart... I hadn't wanted to be, I wanted to keep my own opinion. Some EIE-Ni professors thought I was particularly dumb or average, whereas an EIE-Fe high school teacher always thought I was smart.

One of the two who thought I was smart was an LSI-Se, the other was an ILI. But there is a tendency for EIE-Ni to think anyone but ILE-Ti and LSI-Se are dumb and lack the ability to reason. In fact, the EIE-Ni are among the most likely to think I'm retarded (while a few have thought I was very smart), that I can't reason, that I'm incoherent, when they're the ones that can't think clearly, or at least not any more clearly than I do. I have learned that EIE-Ni tend to underestimate peoples' intelligence while overestimating their own; their LSI-Se duals are a lot more open-minded on others' intelligence.

[lookin4waifu]

People who have 4 year University degrees are less analytical than those without who also enjoy sniffing the farts of ILEs.

[AWellArmedCat]

Well, see when I was in college, I got my information from the internet... I was a political science major, and the professors didn't agree with my libertarian opinions.

Interesting. My political psychology professor was very very much a libertarian/classical liberal type. I don't know if he technically identified himself as one, but it was pretty clear that was his lean

[FDG]

I agree the bare minimum should be a PhD in physics

[The Reality Denialist]

Eh. Breakdown kinda sucks here and smells like reinforcement of personal beliefs when things are not always related.

[RichardBrown]

People with higher education have a broader outlook as a rule. Moreover, people who have spent their time and money on college have already proved that they are ready and able to learn new things, overcome obstacles, and cope with stressful situations. There are a lot during their education. I am currently studying medicine at https://miami.asa.edu/college-degree...al-sonography/. I like the program I am studying, but since English is not my native language, I have to make every effort to master the necessary languages. For an employer, this should be a symbol that I am a reliable and understanding employee.

[Ocean Man]

I'm beginning to think the answer is yes.

Benjamin Franklin dropped out of school at age 10. And in my experience, yes. Educated people more often than not attempt to "castrate" (belittle, use reductionism) those that are the true free-thinkers; and I think it is often due to the fact that their education has become their religion (regardless of what field of activity).

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Benjamin Franklin dropped out of school at age 10. And in my experience, yes. Educated people more often than not attempt to "castrate" (belittle, use reductionism) those that are the true free-thinkers; and I think it is often due to the fact that their education has become their religion (regardless of what field of activity).

So you're saying free thinkers aren't educated? xD

[Ocean Man]

So you're saying free thinkers aren't educated? xD

I'm saying that little children have more interesting and innovative ideas than you do.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Professors of the courses I was most interested in either absolutely adored me and called on me every chance they got (even when I did not volunteer to respond, lol), or they hated me and wanted me out of their class. That's because I am a free-thinking kind of person. Education has never changed me, and I don't think it changes other true free thinkers, either. I think people like us are just rare.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I'm saying that little children have more interesting and innovative ideas than you do.

One logical fallacy to another, eh? Such unprovoked ad hominem, too.

[Ocean Man]

That's because I am a free-thinking kind of person.

Well, I think that people don't have to state they are something, they just are. Especially ESIs in this theory that have high energy Fi and almost never speak and are exceptionally close-minded due to Ne PoLR. Ironic.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Well, I think that people don't have to state they are something, they just are. Especially ESIs in this theory that have high energy Fi and almost never speak and are exceptionally close-minded due to Ne PoLR. Ironic.

Think better.

[Ocean Man]

Think better.

Calm down, EIE.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Calm down, EIE.

I don't let passive-aggressive trolls get under my skin.

[Ocean Man]

I don't let passive-aggressive trolls get under my skin.

I'm neither, so you're simply offended.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I'm neither, so you're simply offended.

Gaslighting attempts? Good luck.

[Ocean Man]

Gaslighting attempts? Good luck.

Facts don't care about your feelings. If you were ESI, you wouldn't even be responding; low energy Fi confirmed.

[InterPrizeWes]

Official learning is mindless and too tied to physics. You must let go of reason and the solid to escape regular orders and sounds of familiarity. School never replenishes the lure and taste of higher adventure away in some far off canopy. The result of such extraterrestrial thinking flares the dream seeds to the call of home in heaven.