Alpha Quadra and PoLR/Role

[darya]

Interesting. What about ILE or LII? By the way, what did you think of my other examples in that post about PoLR? The one about vocabulary, especially.

I really liked this description and I find it highly accurate: (from http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl/search/label/Ne)

Both ILEs and IEEs are known to be inclined to be nonconformists (or believe so themselves), but again, for different reasons and in different ways.

For ILEs, their nonconformism comes from their creative-Ti and their Fi-PoLR. They prefer to set rules that make sense to them in the first place (creative-Ti), and they lack skills that lead to understanding of social norms. If someone, preferably an SEI, helps them to understand these social norms, they are much more inclined to toe the line, of course also because they would probably mingle a lot more with compatible people. For ILEs, nonconformism is actually a way to get closer to people.

For IEEs, it is exactly the other way around: they understand social norms perfectly (creative-Fi), and if they accidentally violate a social norm they didn't know about, they will learn soon enough by picking up all kinds of cues. They are perfectly capable of acting in accordance with social norms, provided that gets them where they want to go. If it doesn't, they are more likely to deny the validity of the social norms at hand, and go their own way. Thus for IEEs, nonconformism is a way to get away from people.

Btw, I think you're an introvert.

[Olduvai]

I wonder if there's any PoLR associated with the inability to smile or behave in social situations? I can't smile at will and I'm terrible at faking it. I can only smile when I'm genuinely feeling happy (which mostly happens in private), when I do try to smile it blatantly comes off as fake and cartoonish (which is why I hate posing for photographs, I'd rather be photographed when I'm not aware of it).

I think what you've just described is Fe-PoLR.

How can someone type you as IEE is beyond me. Or an ethical type for that matter

You're underestimating the idiocy of this forum. Most people around here have no idea what the types look like, or how certain type-related features (PoLR, etc.) are manifested. We've got LIIs who think they're IEE, ILEs who think they're SEE, and ILIs who think they're LII. There's lots of confusion on these boards, unfortunately.

[Phantom]

I really liked this description and I find it highly accurate: (from http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl/search/label/Ne)

Both ILEs and IEEs are known to be inclined to be nonconformists (or believe so themselves), but again, for different reasons and in different ways.

For ILEs, their nonconformism comes from their creative-Ti and their Fi-PoLR. They prefer to set rules that make sense to them in the first place (creative-Ti), and they lack skills that lead to understanding of social norms. If someone, preferably an SEI, helps them to understand these social norms, they are much more inclined to toe the line, of course also because they would probably mingle a lot more with compatible people. For ILEs, nonconformism is actually a way to get closer to people.

For IEEs, it is exactly the other way around: they understand social norms perfectly (creative-Fi), and if they accidentally violate a social norm they didn't know about, they will learn soon enough by picking up all kinds of cues. They are perfectly capable of acting in accordance with social norms, provided that gets them where they want to go. If it doesn't, they are more likely to deny the validity of the social norms at hand, and go their own way. Thus for IEEs, nonconformism is a way to get away from people.

Btw, I think you're an introvert.

Hmmm... I think I'm inclined towards IEE here, mostly because I'm not completely ignorant to social customs. I just don't like the idea of following them.
Yup, I agree. I'm certainly an introvert.

@Phantasmagorical I'm reading your anecdotes on your other threads and I'm laughing out loud. I like you...you're so weird I thought before that you identify as a Ni valuer, cause you were typed as IEI, so now I'm confused. I think you're LII or ILI, but I have to read more. How can someone type you as IEE is beyond me. Or an ethical type for that matter

I'm glad they entertained you!
Hmmm... LII or ILI? This is a tricky one, because they share no valued functions in common. However, as @Chris Clearly suggested that I might be Fe-PoLR, ILI seems to be the plausible option.

I think what you've just described is Fe-PoLR.





You're underestimating the idiocy of this forum. Most people around here have no idea what the types look like, or how certain type-related features (PoLR, etc.) are manifested. We've got LIIs who think they're IEE, ILEs who think they're SEE, and ILIs who think they're LII. There's lots of confusion on these boards, unfortunately.

[darya]

I think what you've just described is Fe-PoLR.

Agreed.

From what I read about you @Phantasmagorical, I would definitely go with ILI. And 5w4 is dead on.

Personal sob story to illustate how Fe PoLR looks like (not accusing you Phantasmagorical of being a shitty boyfriend ):

My ILI 5w4 ex boyfriend couldn't fake emotions to save his life, he looked like he was literally in pain when he had to pay me a compliment and he was convinced that everytime someone cried they were trying to manipulate him, even though it was obvious to everyone the person was in dispair. He also said that he doesn't understand why people apologize ever - he didn't get the concept behind the word "sorry" because his believe was that he and only he is going to decide if and when he will forgive the person, and the person saying they're sorry doesn't impact his decision in any shape or form.
And he was clueless how was coming across to others. He always offended everyone and got into fights with people and he didn't know why. He seemed slightly autistic, although he was not. He even asked me a few times: do you think I tell the stories a bit differently than other people (he was boring everybody to death, but he had no clue about it and I didn't have the heart to tell him ). Basically, from some of his actions you could conclude he's a terrible person, but I know he wasn't- he was just that clueless about Fe.

You're underestimating the idiocy of this forum. Most people around here have no idea what the types look like, or how certain type-related features (PoLR, etc.) are manifested. We've got LIIs who think they're IEE, ILEs who think they're SEE, and ILIs who think they're LII. There's lots of confusion on these boards, unfortunately.

Some people are indeed hard to type (I'm speaking for me, cause I don't have a really good grasp of how all the functions manifest), so I'm not sure a lot of the times, but others are really obvious. I obviously understand you make a minor mistake and get confused but some typings are fascinating I agree.

[The Martrix]

I wonder if there's any PoLR associated with the inability to smile or behave in social situations?

This is Fe-PoLR, yes. I don't remember you mentioning it before. But that's probably me being a Result type and skim-reading.

[lemontrees]

My ILI 5w4 ex boyfriend couldn't fake emotions to save his life, he looked like he was literally in pain when he had to pay me a compliment and he was convinced that everytime someone cried they were trying to manipulate him, even though it was obvious to everyone the person was in dispair. .

LMAO.

I've seen SLI women try to fake Fe occasionally b/c I think there's more social pressure for women to be like that. Except, like, it comes out *totally* wrong- they're way cooler when they aren't like that- they smile at the wrong time, or "aw" in a way that comes across as fake or condescending or too sweet. I wonder actually if that's what Fe actually appears like to Fe-PoLRs; just a bunch of people emotionally condescending to you with their awwing. I guess the positive lesson is that I feel like it's always better (if you can get away with it) just to act like yourself and not conform to something like that lol.

[darya]

LMAO.

I've seen SLI women try to fake Fe occasionally b/c I think there's more social pressure for women to be like that. Except, like, it comes out *totally* wrong- they're way cooler when they aren't like that- they smile at the wrong time, or "aw" in a way that comes across as fake or condescending or too sweet. I wonder actually if that's what Fe actually appears like to Fe-PoLRs; just a bunch of people emotionally condescending to you with their awwing. I guess the positive lesson is that I feel like it's always better (if you can get away with it) just to act like yourself and not conform to something like that lol.

Hahaha yees, I think it looks awfully fake to them and they're highly suspicious of your true intentions. I'm so happy that now that I understand at least basic socionics I can really explain all my awful interactions and it all makes sense. It's magic But it's also true that these kind of severe misunderstandings and incompatibilities in intertype relations often appear only in romantic and work-related relations, not so much friendships.

[consentingadult]

I really liked this description and I find it highly accurate: (from http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl/search/label/Ne)

Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment!

[darya]

Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment!

It is!! I was too lazy to look up your name, otherwise I would have tagged you

[lemontrees]

Hahaha yees, I think it looks awfully fake to them and they're highly suspicious of your true intentions. I'm so happy that now that I understand at least basic socionics I can really explain all my awful interactions and it all makes sense. It's magic But it's also true that these kind of severe misunderstandings and incompatibilities in intertype relations often appear only in romantic and work-related relations, not so much friendships.

yeah it's totally true. those other relationships are often a little more "close-quarters," either b/c you want to or b/c you have to. I sometimes watch "the inter-type relationship theater" play out in others' romances and even on TV! (I used to be corralled into watch reality dating....) it's like "nuh-uh girl aint 'playing you' she's just EIE..." (or maybe she is )

[Phantom]

I think I'm a Result type though, so that rules out INTp. ENTj, however, is a result type, but I can't really see myself as one. Not even an Ni-ENTj.
Incidentally, what do you think of my answer to this question?

Q) You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?

Depends on what I was doing when the car broke down. Was I listening to music? Was I staring at the world outside? Was I introspecting? Was I talking to my friends? Was I sleeping? Was I thinking about the concert in anticipation? My initial thoughts would vary. For example, if I was listening to music, I wouldn't be perturbed. If I was thinking about the concert, I would definitely be annoyed. If I was talking to my friends and the discussion was interesting, I wouldn't mind at all.
At some point, I'll begin to do some quick calculations in my head, taking into account the time on the watch, the time remaining for the concert to begin, the assumed time it would take for the car to repair, the assumed speed of the car and the distance to the concert and find out if I would be able to arrive at the concert in time. Of course, there's also the possibility that I might just continue talking to my friends or listening to music in which case, I might even welcome the pause, particularly if I was reluctantly going to the concert, which is another scenario to consider because then I might actually rejoice at the break down of the car. There are so many variables and contingencies here.

[Satan]

Agreed.

From what I read about you @Phantasmagorical, I would definitely go with ILI. And 5w4 is dead on.

Personal sob story to illustate how Fe PoLR looks like (not accusing you Phantasmagorical of being a shitty boyfriend ):

My ILI 5w4 ex boyfriend couldn't fake emotions to save his life, he looked like he was literally in pain when he had to pay me a compliment and he was convinced that everytime someone cried they were trying to manipulate him, even though it was obvious to everyone the person was in dispair. He also said that he doesn't understand why people apologize ever - he didn't get the concept behind the word "sorry" because his believe was that he and only he is going to decide if and when he will forgive the person, and the person saying they're sorry doesn't impact his decision in any shape or form.

I wouldn't say that I can't understand why people say sorry. But I also don't really think apologies mean much, and I don't really feel that comfortable with people crying around me.

Although I can play the game and say sorry sometimes, it doesn't really mean much, and it's like giving power to other people to accept such an apology or not, and it's like saying you're wrong.

Don't apologise, don't say no, don't ask questions, and don't pretend you understand things that you don't is kind of how I feel about "proper" behaviour. But I expect others to as well.

And like some people, they apologise when they haven't even done anything wrong just in case, and it's awkward.

The whole apologising, thinking you're capable because you can say no, asking questions, and pretending to understand can bug me.

Same with should, would, could, maybe, hesistancy, doubt, uncertainty etc. Those kind of things are annoying, just like despair, sadness, regret, misery, misfortune etc. Don't wallow in such behaviour, move towards the light!