Originally Posted by Nevero
I think I find it much more satisfying to have one, refined vision of where my life is headed, as opposed to just relaxing or testing the waters with random things that don't lead anywhere, and find it a little bit frustrating when the latter approach is suggested, although I know they mean well. I can see myself doing alot of that, but find it ultimately unfulfilling.
Last edited by suedehead; 04-11-2014 at 07:37 PM.
Pardon me if this has already been answered in this thread, I can get a little self-absorbed at times, but where are you headed now?
Easy Day
It's pretty embarrassing to mention it now. I was previously working on becoming more self-sufficient by applying for jobs for practical reasons (don't like spending my parents' money), and was hoping to eventually stack up my resume, make a few connections, refine my 'craft' over the next few years, and make my way into a field of choice through internships and the like. I live fairly close to where a lot of the stuff I'm interested in is happening and I figured I should take advantage of it.
Of course, this is all coming from a very naive perspective and a lot of what I've described seems pretty spotty, but that's more or less how I pictured it at the time. I'm not sure where that's gone now and I can't help but feel silly for thinking all that up.
Last edited by suedehead; 04-11-2014 at 08:33 PM.
Why's that silly? I'm a little naive myself but I'm not sure which part of that is supposed to not work :s
Easy Day
Complete opposite for me. Need my mental state sorted first, then all the shit I need to get done just gets done.
But yeah, whatever works
Glad to hear you're getting it sorted. It's nice to know that you're out there beat'n the funk same as me :]Complete opposite for me. Need my mental state sorted first, then all the shit I need to get done just gets done.
But yeah, whatever works
Easy Day
I'm having such a hard time behaving naturally, that is, thinking bout myself outside of the lens of typology.
One minute I'll notice behaviors that seems to be indicative ESI, Gamma, IJ-temperament or Se-ego, and I always welcome and strive off of these moments because it seems like I'll actually be able to make something out of myself - like I'll be someone who's worth taken seriously. I feel confident, motivated, calm, present, principled, disciplined, purposeful, strong, attractive, etc. But could this possibly be me?
In moments where I feel scattered, directionless, anxious, awkward, depressed or have a difficult time enjoying the present moment, I start to view myself as IEE and feel as if I'm plagued to live a life of meaningless self-indulgence, clumsiness, infantile romance, long-term stagnancy, and being clothed/fed by an SxI. I find these moments frightening, disgusting and insatiable, as if I'm losing a grip on 'myself', but perhaps this is what my life was supposed to be like all along. It's so petty and illogical, but I can't seem to help it. It's a sign of the lowest form of intelligence and immaturity. You realize how base and meaningless your entire life once your forced to rely on something like this for a sense of value. It's awful/bizarre and I wish it would end. I can't tell which is me anymore. I feel malleable. I regret ever delving into typology, it feels like I'm being forced to choose my own fate, to become some caricature that I've never cared to be, but will inevitably exemplify subconsciously. It pains me to know that if I'm indeed Ne-ego, I'll eventually end up giving up on the few things that keep me alive - I'll never be skilled at anything.
I've turned something as neutral as a sequence of information elements into a choice between this (Se):
and this (Ne):
Last edited by suedehead; 04-23-2014 at 08:50 PM.
I am so happy I didn't get into typology at your age. I was busy with my writing, poetry, reading fantasy and music. I feel for you though, all the frustration inside. If you can focus on your photography and things that make you feel better about yourself... things will change. Easier said than done but it is the best way to figure yourself out. All that other stuff is garbage thrown at us from outside influences telling us what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. Do you. That's the best I got for you.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Sounds like; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrusive_thoughts
You acknowledge that your negative self perception is irrational, yet it still impacts you in this way. Please go see a doctor about this. Depression is just an illness, you can't rationalize your way out of it in the same way you can't rationalize your way out of a broken leg. It's not your fault and your way of fighting it leads to you blaming and shaming yourself, which perpetuates the cycle.
I wish I could express in a softer way.
You have it right.
What else do you need to know? You aren't a caricature.
i remember you telling me something like this a long time ago and its good advice but at the time it seemed impossible not to think that way cuz i was examining everything about myself and its really hard to do that without attaching any sort of value judgment to the things you find inside or to the things you read about for comparison. and when you relate to descriptions that you have a negative opinion of (whether because of forer effect or actual similarity or a tendency to be self-disparaging) its really hard to just be okay with that. well, for me.
there was this mergy-ness, too, not knowing where exactly i started and ended overlapping with type concepts, and thinking of type as "the map and not the territory" helped a lot with that. if your type doesn't match your self concept, then it IS NOT YOU, EVERY TIME. typology is nothing, it is a thought, its the air, but you are real. never second guess that. @Suedehead
people have said i lack a sense of self but thats bullshit. the self is not a painting that you can describe in an essay that someone could read and then expect it to look the same when they saw it later. if it was, then it could be "lost." or duplicated. but an imposter can put on your clothes and repeat your phrases and do everything the same as you but anybody who actually knew you would catch on. because the self is something else that can't be put into words and everything else is just ...shoe sizes and food allergies, lol. which is maybe what you were trying to say all along but i had to write all this out to get there.
@Suedehead regarding your yesterday's post - you seem to be at a crossroads of sorts in your life around this time when you feel a need to choose a direction. Imho while it's important to choose a direction and try - this doesn't mean that a decision you make now is going to be a deciding factor for how your whole life is supposed to play out. We make various decisions that change the course of our lives a bit daily and sometimes bigger ones that change our lives even more.
You are first and foremost a person, the typology is just and addition. Try using it as a means of explaining and understanding some of your and other people's qualities. But this doesn't dictate what kind of person you can be. It might be difficult at this point if you're going through a rough patch, but try seeing beyond it. Se-ego doesn't have to be "cool and edgy" and Ne-ego doesn't have to be nerdy. If you want to be a certain kind of person - work towards it, don't let "type" limit you, especially when you aren't even certain of a type. You treat it like a "curse", but maybe it's a "blessing". Please also keep in mind that while we all have our weaknesses, this doesn't mean we can't work on them and improve them to some point, to make our lives a bit easier and more enjoyable.
Oh and on a lighter note, being fed by SXIs isn't such a bad way to live...but tbh if socionics makes sense, then the thought of "getting" what a "dual" is supposed to "provide" shouldn't be repulsive... the few IXEs I've met in my life would jump up with joy on the thought of smn taking care of them the way you had described with some disgust. It seems that if this process in your mind right now is using Ne - it is using it to come up with negative scenarios and Ne-egos, especially Ne-leads would theoretically be more inclined to come up with positive scenarios or at least half half.
Not sure if Ne leads would think of positive scenarios at least half the time. We supposedly have -Ne and are negativists.
I think you need to be kinder to yourself, Suedehead. Everyone does stupid stuff as a teenager. That's what the teenage years are for. Are there people who aren't embarrassed of their teenage selves?
And it does sound like it might have reached the point of depression. Hugs! If Socionics is making you more depressed, ignore it. I mean you can hang out here and type celebrities and post in Anything Goes and in chat if you want, but don't worry about your type. Being in a relaxed, happy place is more likely to lead your life in the direction you want then understanding Socionics will.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Yeah, I think you're stuck in a negative mental loop Suedehead. Don't torture yourself with these thoughts- none of them make sense. Regardless of socionics type, you can keep your skills and your interests b/c you love them, and with time you will surely get better.
Not sure if this is helpful:
Last edited by lemontrees; 04-24-2014 at 02:39 PM.
Is there a way you can kinda start over somewhere?
..That's honestly what helped me a ton: getting away from family, crap friends of high school... I did the nanny thing in Europe for a year. semester abroad? be a tourguide?.. experiences alone are kinda what make me feel more grounded, less reliant on things and people that I know. It toughened me up quite a bit organically and made me slightly more optimistic.
I'd pack up again in a second if I didn't have the school thing going on right now.
@Slacker - I was thinking about my personal observations of the few IEEs, ILEs and SLIs I've met... Ne-egos seemed to be capable of coming up with negative scenarios but then come up with positive counter-scenarios and kind of balance... non Ne-egos seemed to have more trouble with coming up with positive counter-scenarios (longer time to balance, but it can be learned)
maybe this is ntr though and those could be a coincidence of those particular people and their types
(I'm speaking from outside of depressive states)
however @Suedehead when I read through this thread it does sound quite depressive - and this is an unhealthy cycle...I agree with @lemontrees that it's good to look outside yourself in such a state (I'm not saying that this is easy).
Try finding sth positive to do (anything, really, sth you might enjoy, it doesn't have to be special, it can be very simple).
Focusing entirely on introspection when depressed will lead to coming up with all sorts of negative and critical thoughts which only feed the negative outlook and create a vicious circle.
Maybe watch a film you like, drink warm cocoa, go for a walk some place you like, watch the sunset... - anything, all those little things will keep adding up to lift your mood a bit and the better the mood the more you'll start noticing positive possibilities in your life
Wow, thank you for this. You and everyone else...I'm surprised there's anyone who could actually relate to what I've gone through. It's surreal. You've always seemed solid to me, and my perception of you hasn't changed.
Last edited by suedehead; 04-24-2014 at 09:52 PM.
Man, I'd love to. At this point in my life however, I'm not sure I'm comfortable making that drastic of a change without having a clear sense of where I'm going with it. It has to lead me somewhere. I can't just do something new for it's own sake. I know doing something like that could potentially be a catalyst, but I don't know...
I apologize for being so flaky and stubborn here, since this is good advise, but yeah..
There's something about that sort of lifestyle that makes me feel restless and complacent, like I've resigned myself. Of course, these are my conascious thoughts about Delta duality, but how do I know that this isn't something that I subconsciously yearn for? And if so, what does this say about me and the way I've chosen to define my life? Maybe nothing. Ever since I started getting into socionics my ego is constantly being prodded with these sort questions, constantly forcing myself to reassess my motivations and perception of self. It almost feels like my entire life is just sick joke when I notice these contradictions between my sense of self, and what's supposedly my natural 'role' within the socion. I realize that I'm backtracking here since you guys have done a good job of re-contextualizing things for me, but this is basically what I've had to deal with for so long.@Suedehead regarding your yesterday's post - you seem to be at a crossroads of sorts in your life around this time when you feel a need to choose a direction. Imho while it's important to choose a direction and try - this doesn't mean that a decision you make now is going to be a deciding factor for how your whole life is supposed to play out. We make various decisions that change the course of our lives a bit daily and sometimes bigger ones that change our lives even more.
You are first and foremost a person, the typology is just and addition. Try using it as a means of explaining and understanding some of your and other people's qualities. But this doesn't dictate what kind of person you can be. It might be difficult at this point if you're going through a rough patch, but try seeing beyond it. Se-ego doesn't have to be "cool and edgy" and Ne-ego doesn't have to be nerdy. If you want to be a certain kind of person - work towards it, don't let "type" limit you, especially when you aren't even certain of a type. You treat it like a "curse", but maybe it's a "blessing". Please also keep in mind that while we all have our weaknesses, this doesn't mean we can't work on them and improve them to some point, to make our lives a bit easier and more enjoyable.
Oh and on a lighter note, being fed by SXIs isn't such a bad way to live...
Going back to the subject of duality, it's not like I've lacked exposure to my supposed duals either, since my mom seems to be an SEI, while my dad seems to be Delta ST (I'm guessing either LSE, or SLI-Te. He could be pretty lazy at times.). While my relationship with my mother has been pleasant with a few disagreements here and there, I've always felt somewhat distant from my father. As much as it shames me to say it, I always found him somewhat embarassing. Even at my lowest moments, he was never capable of giving me advice that was relevant to me. What that says about my type? Can't really say for sure, and it's not like he's representative of all Delta ST's either. And hey, who's to say I've even typed him correctly? He was 'serious' (superficially. from a socionics standpoint? I don't know), conservative in outlook, comfort-seeking, and what else? It's inconclusive. And if he were in fact a Delta ST and I wanted to make some sort of case for ESI, he'd be either my semi-dual or benefactor, which doesn't add up either.
Last edited by suedehead; 04-24-2014 at 09:50 PM.
When I was younger I felt the same about my mom that you do about your dad and in socionics she is my:
Activation is a very common relationship for friendship. Activation is similar to duality in that each person provides those kinds of information that the other most expects, however, the emphasis is always somewhat different than subconsciously expected. Partners are able to provide each other with an abundance of useful information and assistance, but lead separate lives and make decisions based on criteria that don't seem too important to the other.
Activation partners who become close and discuss their strivings and personal worldviews often are struck by how radically different they are, despite the relative ease and benefit of communication. As opposed to duals, who tend to strive for the same things but from differing, though compatible angles, activation partners' approaches to achieving their goals tend to be fundamentally incompatible, due largely to the difference in rationality and irrationality. This means that while activation partners can talk and share their common hobbies with ease, they tend to view each other as separate entities with separate lifestyles and plans.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
hmm... ok the way I understand you (correct me if I'm wrong) is that at this point in time you've assumed that Delta duality means people just focus on being comfortable and aimlessly sailing through life whenever wind happens to blow them over to... while this can certainly be a part of a relaxed lifestyle - not chasing after too much and finding joy in "the little things", by no means should this be the limit and end-all be-all.
The way I understand duality is two people who understand each other and the more they dare to open up and communicate, the more they realise how much they have in common despite the surface differences. It's having someone who's there for you and is your "cheerleader" hoping for you to succeed and supporting you through just being there but also giving you advice that helps you get out of the rut when you're stuck or look at sth from a different angle that enables you to keep on moving forward to your chosen direction.
I don't think Delta duality (or any quadra duality for that matter) defines that smn wouldn't/shouldn't/won't keep on developing and striving to achieve things they dream of in life. In fact, the whole point of duality is quite the opposite from my pov.
This sentence keeps on being repeated and I think for a reason: "not every dual is going to make your dreams come true". Idk how having a dual parent would have felt like, so pls bare that I'm not writing from experience, however parent-child relationship is a different bond than a romantic one. There are subjects difficult to discuss with one's parents in general, I'm sure you know and feel this to some extent. I've dated an IEE guy before ever meeting my husband and he was a great person, but this wasn't "it" for me. My husband is an IEE most likely and he is "it". Still, type isn't everything. A particular person counts.Going back to the subject of duality, it's not like I've lacked exposure to my supposed duals either, since my mom seems to be an SEI, while my dad seems to be Delta ST (I'm guessing either LSE, or SLI-Te. He could be pretty lazy at times.). While my relationship with my mother has been pleasant with a few disagreements here and there, I've always felt somewhat distant from my father. As much as it shames me to say it, I always found him somewhat embarassing. Even at my lowest moments, he was never capable of giving me advice that was relevant to me. What that says about my type? Can't really say for sure, and it's not like he's representative of all Delta ST's either. And hey, who's to say I've even typed him correctly? He was 'serious' (superficially. from a socionics standpoint? I don't know), conservative in outlook, comfort-seeking, and what else? It's inconclusive. And if he were in fact a Delta ST and I wanted to make some sort of case for ESI, he'd be either my semi-dual or benefactor, which doesn't add up either.
And tbh I find this idea of "consciously" seeking out "duals" quite unsettling. I think following instincts is how people should date and decide upon forming relationships. The duality idea seems to be a bit of a trap. If two people are just being themselves and feel good together, don't argue all the time and take the time to actually get to know each other - then this is a good basis for forming a relationship - and if socionics makes sense - then it gives a chance for those people actually being "duals"... But this should be natural. Otherwise this just feeds imagination and might lead to looking at other people through "dual"/"non-dual" lense... and putting expectations on people a person meets that they might not necessarily fullfill - not all values, dreams and life-ideas can be compromised upon and those issues are important when thinking of building life together with a loved one. A dual can be someone easy to communicate with, but at the same time, you might be not attracted to them, or intellectually incompatible or want things in life that exclude both of you having your "way"... I could go on. (And then there's the idea of mistypings...)
I don't think that a family member not being able to give you advice you needed is type related. So it seems our conclusions on this part seem to be similar.
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