Just What Is This Socionics Thing Anyway?

[Joy]

any other words? where's the Ti?

I don't think Vash the stampede is Ti (though he could feasibly be any Ne type).

[Exodus]

No.....no no no. We marry for love. <3

Of course, but an IEI could get infatuated with a powerful person.

[Exodus]

Well, ok. I don't think it's common, at any rate.

[Ezra]

i find anime really boring.

Good choice.

We're marrying for the personality, for the chemistry, for the "click," and for the love that developed.

Who doesn't marry for those reasons?

[Mr Saturn]

Good choice.

Your choice.

Who doesn't marry for those reasons?

People who marry for power and/or money?

[ScarlettLux]

You aren't Beta, Leon ... lol, you just aren't. Mark my words, you shall eventually come to this realization.

[Ezra]

Your choice.

That's why it's good.

People who marry for power and/or money?

Fair enough. Do you do that?

You aren't Beta, Leon ... lol, you just aren't. Mark my words, you shall eventually come to this realization.

She's right, Leon. In an instinctual way, she is right.

But lol @ u anyway, ScarlettLux, for thinking you're an SEE.

[Mr Saturn]

Fair enough. Do you do that?

No, Never. Marriage to me doesn't matter. If it is important to my partner I will happily get married and the event will have my full support. If they are against it then I will happily accept that too.

She's right, Leon. In an instinctual way, she is right.

I'm EIE.

[Ezra]

Shit, Leon. You are truly efficient at replying.

No, Never. Marriage to me doesn't matter. If it is important to my partner I will happily get married and the event will have my full support. If they are against it then I will happily accept that too.

Good. You get a five star rating from me.

I'm EIE.

I want you to read what tereg has already posted once and I don't think you read. I want you to read it because I think it would give you immense insight into the mind of an IEE.

[implied]

slux - why not beta?

[Mr Saturn]

slux - why not beta?

implied, Please fight my argument for Beta or tell me that hero figures are possible in Delta - I think I may be IEE.

Shit, Leon. You are truly efficient at replying.

I'm the nuts.

I want you to read what tereg has already posted once and I don't think you read. I want you to read it because I think it would give you immense insight into the mind of an IEE.

I'm IEE.

Give me some IEE figures please. Tell me I can be a hero. Tell me what IEEs are good for. Or EIE are getting me back.

[implied]

implied, Please fight my argument for Beta or tell me that hero figures are possible in Delta - I think I may be IEE.



I'm the nuts.




I'm IEE.

Give me some IEE figures please. Tell me I can be a hero. Tell me what IEEs are good for. Or EIE are getting me back.

eh now i'm not so sure. really i just talked to ezra about this for a while and now i'm sort of reconsidering it.

[Mr Saturn]

But I get the impression from the Wikisocion definition of IEE (albeit poor) that IEEs are people 'pleasers'. They are interested in other people and like meeting new people.

I dislike meeting people I don't want to meet. I dislike large groups. I dislike most people.

This being said the people I interact with daily are all (mostly) the same. Ezra can vouch for this.

[ScarlettLux]

slux - why not beta?

Do not get the Beta vibes at ALL. In fact, I actually am a bit repelled by the way he posts and his entire aura ... at least off of what I can tell on the internet. This usually happens with IEEs I know. His way of changing around his types is very ... he's not resolute in any way, and I really, REALLY do not see valuing in him. He's more about relaxedness, just having a "chill" time. There is a vast difference between Ezra and him. I don't even particularly think their interaction is quite so natural anyhow. They don't seem to agree on much, at least in their posts.

He seems to be seeking to justify all his switching around with the types. PoLR is evident from the way that he doesn't seem to see how unreasonable it is to change from Delta to Alpha to Beta in such a short period of time. It's like he just snaps and decides that he's whatever type because of some small tidbit of information he reads. Nothing fits into a wider system, which would annoy me, but doesn't even seem to occur to him.

His way of posting reminds me of tereg and munenori, whom are both Delta NFs.

[ScarlettLux]

BTW, yes, lol @ me for my SEE phase.

[munenori2]

But I get the impression from the Wikisocion definition of IEE (albeit poor) that IEEs are people 'pleasers'. They are interested in other people and like meeting new people.

I dislike meeting people I don't want to meet. I dislike large groups. I dislike most people.

This being said the people I interact with daily are all (mostly) the same. Ezra can vouch for this.

You have to put these things into a bigger context, maybe? I'm not sure how broadly you think an IEE would try to please others, but I do think that they try to become close to other people in whom they see the potential for something good (of course that's general to many types, but I think IEEs are better at this), but you also have to consider that success in this area has as much to do with discretion and selection as it does befriending every person all the time. No one likes to feel forced into meeting anyone nor in meeting people that it seems undesirable to meet. Maybe it's judged that nothing good could really come out of it, etc. I do think that IEEs tend to a more openly amiable persona in interacting with others, so this might set them up for a better reception by others, which the IEE ultimately decides to pursue or let fall by the wayside.

I also don't believe that IEEs generally find large groups attractive (or really if any Deltas do as a rule). They would likely be more apt to break the group down into something smaller if possible, particularly to the extent that they wanted to communicate on a deeper, more focused level. What exactly you mean by disliking most people is more difficult to interpret. Delta NFs I think tend to give more benefit of the doubt (though they might begin initially with a lot of reservations, they will hold them off as far as a definitive judgement) in light of how an action can be interpreted in light of many different intents or reasons. As for most people being 'mostly the same', that's also hard to decipher. The closest analogy I can think of would be in terms of an Fi viewpoint, which I think ultimately does make standing judgements of others as to those people who are 'different', 'special', 'valuable' in the eyes of the beholder.

The way in which you bounce around types is interesting imo. I don't mean that as a criticism, but more in the way that you seem to find other people's perspectives as valuable in themselves (they are all worthy of consideration) without appearing as if the judgement of those perspectives in terms of evidence is altogether a strength or priority. I'm wary to assign a specific socionic interpretation to this, which again can be envisioned as emanating from a wealth of reasons, but might point to some sort of thinking HA? I would be more likely to imagine that as a Te HA than a Ti one on the basis that you seem more or less uninterested in building any systematic understanding. This observation is relative to say the INFps on the forum who seem more wont to do that kind of thing. Take that with a grain of salt, because that is only a comparative judgement.

And a final point, or question more like. Your desire to play the hero is fascinating to me. Why is it that you view that a Delta would not be, or would be less likely to be, a hero? I only ask because my private imagination revolves almost exclusively around this theme. This is more for my own understanding of how you are thinking than any socionic distinction. I'm uncertain that something of this nature could ever really be pinned down to a function or set of types. Then again, a deeper insight into your motivations and dreams might be illuminating. I wish I'd been able to put all this more concisely, but I've been mulling this over for a bit.

[Ezra]

Leon, read the fucking link. I don't know about IEEs and I don't care to know, I'm just trying to help you find your type which is what you want. I can't dig your unfocused nature at all. I'm not the only Beta annoyed by you in some way.

Do not get the Beta vibes at ALL. In fact, I actually am a bit repelled by the way he posts and his entire aura ... at least off of what I can tell on the internet. This usually happens with IEEs I know. His way of changing around his types is very ... he's not resolute in any way, and I really, REALLY do not see valuing in him. He's more about relaxedness, just having a "chill" time. There is a vast difference between Ezra and him. I don't even particularly think their interaction is quite so natural anyhow. They don't seem to agree on much, at least in their posts.

He seems to be seeking to justify all his switching around with the types. PoLR is evident from the way that he doesn't seem to see how unreasonable it is to change from Delta to Alpha to Beta in such a short period of time. It's like he just snaps and decides that he's whatever type because of some small tidbit of information he reads. Nothing fits into a wider system, which would annoy me, but doesn't even seem to occur to him.

His way of posting reminds me of tereg and munenori, whom are both Delta NFs.

I dig this post.

[munenori2]

lol I didn't read scarlett's post. That would have saved me a lot of time!

[Exodus]

implied, Please fight my argument for Beta or tell me that hero figures are possible in Delta - I think I may be IEE.

"Please fight my argument" is not a very IEE thing to say.

[Mr Saturn]

Leon, read the fucking link. I don't know about IEEs and I don't care to know, I'm just trying to help you find your type which is what you want. I can't dig your unfocused nature at all. I'm not the only Beta annoyed by you in some way.

Firstly, I have no care what others think, if they are annoyed and they have a valid reason then I will do my best to account for this politely. I am sticking with INFp.

Secondly, I try to read all the posts. Do not undermine me. I read what I feel interesting. I know you are trying to help but battering me about my weak points is not going to help.

You have to put these things into a bigger context, maybe? I'm not sure how broadly you think an IEE would try to please others, but I do think that they try to become close to other people in whom they see the potential for something good (of course that's general to many types, but I think IEEs are better at this)

I have little to none interest in people who don't interest me first.

I also don't believe that IEEs generally find large groups attractive (or really if any Deltas do as a rule). They would likely be more apt to break the group down into something smaller if possible, particularly to the extent that they wanted to communicate on a deeper, more focused level. What exactly you mean by disliking most people is more difficult to interpret. Delta NFs I think tend to give more benefit of the doubt (though they might begin initially with a lot of reservations, they will hold them off as far as a definitive judgement) in light of how an action can be interpreted in light of many different intents or reasons. As for most people being 'mostly the same', that's also hard to decipher. The closest analogy I can think of would be in terms of an Fi viewpoint, which I think ultimately does make standing judgements of others as to those people who are 'different', 'special', 'valuable' in the eyes of the beholder.

Well I don't want to sound completely like an egotist so I am thinking that I may just not like people who are happy with their mundane lives and wish to go out and get 'plastered' every weekend, which in my town is 90%.

And a final point, or question more like. Your desire to play the hero is fascinating to me.

Nothing, apart from love and other points of purity, is more fulfilling than surpassing everyones expectations in a time of little hope. Reaching a potential of yourself for that moment and doing so in a completely brilliant and fantastic manner.

[implied]

"Please fight my argument" is not a very IEE thing to say.

eh, you read my mind there.

[Minde]

Leon, I'm thinking that the fact you live in a town like you describe is why you don't seem to like interacting with new people. Maybe if you moved or even traveled a little away from there, found a new environment and culture (or sub-culture, I guess) you could see more clearly if that's a preference of yours.

The ENFps I know are more comfortable than I (an INFj) am in making new friends. But they still have the same sort of, um, approach. They meet and easily interact with lots of people, but their friends are their friends, if that makes any sense. They create very personal and individual connections with their friends.

As far as heroism and ENFps, I don't think the two are incompatible. All of the ones I know want to do something meaningful with their lives. And not necessarily connected to their careers either, though their chosen career paths leave that possibility open. Especially the guy ENFps I know... I can't speak about it concretely, though, because much of it is largely impression on my part. I see a lot of it in what they like to imagine about. But they like the ideas of nobility, honor, generosity, courage, etc. And they do tend to act on it. One ENFp simply loves being able to "rescue" his sister, like when nobody is listening to her. I'm not sure if it's the same thing you're talking about, though, and I realize I'm being awfully vague. So, um, take this last paragraph with a grain of salt.

[Mr Saturn]

Leon, I'm thinking that the fact you live in a town like you describe is why you don't seem to like interacting with new people. Maybe if you moved or even traveled a little away from there, found a new environment and culture (or sub-culture, I guess) you could see more clearly if that's a preference of yours.

As soon as I can I will be leaving in search of culture. I want to make sure my environment is what I choose.

As far as heroism and ENFps, I don't think the two are incompatible. All of the ones I know want to do something meaningful with their lives. And not necessarily connected to their careers either, though their chosen career paths leave that possibility open. Especially the guy ENFps I know... I can't speak about it concretely, though, because much of it is largely impression on my part. I see a lot of it in what they like to imagine about. But they like the ideas of nobility, honor, generosity, courage, etc. And they do tend to act on it. One ENFp simply loves being able to "rescue" his sister, like when nobody is listening to her. I'm not sure if it's the same thing you're talking about, though, and I realize I'm being awfully vague. So, um, take this last paragraph with a grain of salt.

I don't want people to rely on my constantly, that would make them weak. I want to surpass all expectations and limits during a moment when hope is lost. That and some explosions and stuff.

That kind of heroism.

[munenori2]

Haha, call me crazy, but Delta NF is probably getting less and less likely here.

[Minde]

As soon as I can I will be leaving in search of culture. I want to make sure my environment is what I choose.

The desire to expand and reach for new horizons.... hm... while at the same time maintaining control and making conscious choices...

Well, in any case, perhaps you should not be in a huge hurry to decide upon a specific type? At least until you've had more experiences that can give you a greater breadth of information about yourself?

I don't want people to rely on my constantly, that would make them weak. I want to surpass all expectations and limits during a moment when hope is lost. That and some explosions and stuff.

That kind of heroism.

Hm, I can't say "yea" or "nay" to it. I haven't really dug into my ENFps to see if that's really what they like. But it sounds great.

[Mr Saturn]

Well, in any case, perhaps you should not be in a huge hurry to decide upon a specific type? At least until you've had more experiences that can give you a greater breadth of information about yourself?

Probably, but I like to do things my own way.

Hm, I can't say "yea" or "nay" to it. I haven't really dug into my ENFps to see if that's really what they like. But it sounds great.

Yeah, it's awesome. Like the end of Speed Racer. And let me know what you discover.

[Minde]

Probably, but I like to do things my own way.

Of course you do. Carry on.

Yeah, it's awesome. Like the end of Speed Racer. And let me know what you discover.

Will do. It might take a week or so, though. I won't be seeing some of them until this weekend.

[Minde]

Mmkay, my ENFp sis is visiting me, so I asked what she thought of heroism and if she ever wanted to be like that.

After thinking a little, she said (and I paraphrase a bit), "I don't think it should be planned. More like, it's just something that happens, and someone does something heroic, naturally. Not like, 'Oh, today I'm going to save so-and-so from such-and-such ...'" EDIT: Like it's a choice someone makes based on the situation they're faced with. As if she was thinking about someone who'd plan a situation and make themselves the hero - how that would be fake.

She also said that sometimes she'll daydream about her job, like if she chased down a bad guy and got to save the whole hospital (where she works as security). I got the feeling, though, that that was a rather private daydream and that she almost thought she was kind of silly for thinking it. But she thinks about it nonetheless.

[Mr Saturn]

Mmkay, my ENFp sis is visiting me, so I asked what she thought of heroism and if she ever wanted to be like that.

After thinking a little, she said (and I paraphrase a bit), "I don't think it should be planned. More like, it's just something that happens, and someone does something heroic, naturally. Not like, 'Oh, today I'm going to save so-and-so from such-and-such ...'" EDIT: Like it's a choice someone makes based on the situation they're faced with. As if she was thinking about someone who'd plan a situation and make themselves the hero - how that would be fake.

She also said that sometimes she'll daydream about her job, like if she chased down a bad guy and got to save the whole hospital (where she works as security). I got the feeling, though, that that was a rather private daydream and that she almost thought she was kind of silly for thinking it. But she thinks about it nonetheless.

Yeah, you can't plan to be a hero. That daydream about her saving the hospital is brilliant. That's exactly the kind of thing I mean. Yeah, I know that sort of thing will get seen as silly but it's great to think about.

Realistically I would love the opportunity to make a sacrifice for others or stand up for what I believe in. I suppose that's the sort of middle ground between idealism and realism.

Then realistically I am going to shake cinema philosophy up. With style.

[Ezra]

I don't want people to rely on my constantly, that would make them weak. I want to surpass all expectations and limits during a moment when hope is lost. That and some explosions and stuff.

That kind of heroism.

Beta NF is making much more sense to me now. What Leon is looking for here is instant, lasting impact on his environment, which I never even considered in these terms before. This is, to my mind, a Beta sentiment.

Then realistically I am going to shake cinema philosophy up. With style.

This idea of "shaking up" reveals a clear Se-orientated objective; what he needs is a dual to help him succeed in this area.

[redbaron]

yeah I'm really thinking he could be IEI.

[Mr Saturn]

This idea of "shaking up" reveals a clear Se-orientated objective; what he needs is a dual to help him succeed in this area.

Be my dual?

[Olduvai]

I didn't watch the video in this thread because it was deleted, but I think I know what's going on:

I get what you are getting at. Let's first note that he is an atypical LSE. That establishes the context for everything. Now, I don't know him well enough to delve into what life experiences have caused what I believe is an over-compensatory attitude, so I will just explain the attitude itself. It's not about demonstrating your 8th function; people don't typically care about that. Where this starts is his (what I like to term) "aggressiveness complex." I don't know why or how this developed, but for some reason, he has this platonic conception of himself as this direct, brash, take-charge person. You can see it in his avatars...everything is about living up to this ideal. Like I said, I don't know why lol, and it annoys me...maybe if I see more of him I'll understand. All I know is that he moves around in the most dynamic way and has absolutely zero Se presence. He seems to have broken through the Se stereotypes, at least intellectually, but persists to try to be that because, I believe, he thinks it coincides more with his ideal. I essentially see him as immature and seeking guidance, but is pretty independent, so goes the exact opposite way. I'm not sure if I used this metaphor before, but his attitude is basically like sticking a very long spear out in front of you to ward people off. Notice how most people are fooled by this at first, i.e. not bothering to try to "get by" the spear. This seems to appease him and only propagates his bullshit. I have lost respect for him after this video because I believe people should be true to themselves. Lastly, I actually believe he is a direct person - just not in the way he believes he is.

done.

Ezra isn't focusing on Se - he's trying to do what HE BELIEVES to be Se-ish behavior, or rather Se as many people improperly view it. He's not actually doing it, he's just trying to act in a way that lives up to an ideal, as strrrng said, and this ideal involves acting in a way he sees as stereotypical Se behavior (which isn't even accurate Se behavior).

Actually the "balance" that I described in the other thread with Si I see with Ezra, that's why it's so awkward when I see him trying to forge an imbalance because it seems so out of character.

This video further validates my initial feeling on their relationship, about it being activity. Ezra's supposed "Se" is painfully awkward and contrived, and it basically seems like putting a false edginess on top of something that can't support it; I don't see any Se

I thought this same thing with Ezra but hesitated to say anything because no one else was mentioning it, until now...since I was a newbie and all and since I didn't even understand my own type...

I see LSE trying, thinking he "should be" Se-like very clearly. And his anger at being told this is understandable too. Somewhere inside him is this "need" to be powerful. And that's a hard thing to admit to yourself if you're not ready to hear and accept it about yourself. But hopefully that's one thing learning about socionics can help us with, uncovering our "shoulds" to be free to be our natural, unique selves and to love and like ourselves for it, within it...

Love,
Kelly Jo

i personally can see LSI over SLE. yes. what i noticed and was trying to say in my own comments before was that Se as base was not likely. he is "trying" to be Se base but it isn't natural. he's too articulate for that. i believe that's what I and some others were picking up on....

love
kj

what we're seeing here, ladies and gentlemen, is the manifestation of Se-PoLR in an LII. case closed.

(also, I think strrrng might be IEE)