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Don't listen to Asston, read on the subject from reliable sources and you'll figure things out eventually.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
I just recently discovered this site and it seems to support what Ashton is saying (as well as what other people have said about other artists'/notables' types):
Duals
Si-ISFp
Ne-ENTp
Yet I'm not sure whether I agree with all of that site's typings. On socionics.com Ozzy is listed under SEI:
ISFp celebrities and famous ISFps
Yet this page confuses me:
Te-ESTj
Is Eminem actually LSE? Wouldn't SLE or some other Beta (or Merry or Decisive) type make more sense. Maybe I'm wrong. I like Eminem's music a fair bit; I also don't mind 50 Cent's album Get Rich or Die Tryin' [I really like several songs from that record]. Unfortunately I haven't listened to that much hip-hop or rap, so I'm not an authority (on the subject). And of course I have listened to Tupac a bit, and that leads me to this:
Fe-INFp
I really don't think that Tupac and Eminem could be conflictors, yet maybe that's just my subjective impression. Nevertheless, there's someone on the Fe-INFp (IEI) page that I'm a really big fan of besides Kurt Cobain, and that's David Lynch. I really like his films, although of course they're not all really that accessible or easy to understand, yet there's something about them... So perhaps I'm a Beta, I don't know. Let's just say I'd be very surprised to be a Delta type considering how much Beta music/art/cinema I like.
Musically, I also like PJ Harvey, Joy Division, Marilyn Manson, Metric/Emily Haines, Nine Inch Nails, Interpol, Radiohead, Martha Wainwright, The Dresden Dolls/Amanda Palmer, Matthew Good, Sarah Slean, Sufjan Stevens, Ani DiFranco, Kathleen Edwards, Our Lady Peace, some microtonal/experimental/'space' music, etc.
Rather than naming filmmakers, I'd say some movies I really like include Mulholland Drive, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Dogville, Kill Bill, Vanilla Sky, The Virgin Suicides, Into The Wild, Inland Empire, etc.
Regardingis it possible that I am a Beta ST (or some other Beta or Alpha type). It was quite interesting to see some of the people that site listed as LSI:
Ti-ISTj
Se-ISTj
I like Buffy; I liked Zooey Deschanel in 500 Days of Summer [although I probably liked the movie a lot more than her character ("manic pixie dream girl?)]; I read 1984 when I was 16 and was inspired; I like The Velvet Underground (and Lou Reed); and last but not least, although it might be the only song I really like by Billy Idol, I still think "White Wedding" is a good song.
All in all, I guess I really don't think I'm a Delta type. Yet at the same time, I can be quite skeptical about a lot of the typings made of famous, artistic, or literary figures (living and dead).
I should probably add that I recently finished reading Vladimir Nabokov's novel Lolita, and I ended up liking it more than I thought I would. Of course the subject matter is in many ways disturbing/pathological; yet at the same time the heart of the story--the emotions, the humanity, and all the other elements that make it an interesting tragicomic work of art/literature--possesses a universal resonance, or at least one that certain types or people might be more likely to be affected by.
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this is why I think you're really mature.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Oh sorry, I forgot to add "avoid Ganin (socionics.com) at all costs".
Socionix.com is Asston's last name.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Of course you would, especially if you're his activity beta extrovert partner. Yeah, I make speculations, call me immature.this is why I think you're really mature.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Removed at User Request
First of all, regarding the correlation between Tupac's and Eminem's sociotypes, here's an article that may sum it up:
MTV.com: Eminem: Reconstructing Tupac
I guess that's sort of why I'd be surprised if they were conflictors, since I see intertype relations as not just applying to real-life friendships and relationships, yet also to what we're more inspired or moved by versus what we're not. I guess regarding Eminem's type I might also consider EIE, LSI, IEI (or less likely ILI)... Yeah, I have no idea.
I don't want to get too carried away with typings, yet on a related note, since I think Robert Christgau is interesting as a music critic, I'm trying to integrate/reconcile the ILI typing with his reviews... The thing is that Christgau really likes Eminem; he reviews him well:
Robert Christgau: CG: eminem
And I wouldn't disagree with him for the most part, just I probably wouldn't write like him. I'm not sure if anyone would want to read my reviews if I was a music critic [tedious]. Yet I'm trying to figure out whether it makes sense if Robert Christgau is Eminem's Supervisor. I guess he could be. It's hard to say.
Regarding other music I like I'd probably also include The Deftones, Staind, Incubus, Trapt, Neil Young, Sarah Harmer, Queens of the Stone Age, Lauryn Hill, Aimee Mann, The Distillers, Audioslave, She Wants Revenge, Flux A. D., Eminem, Joydrop, 50 Cent, Regina Spektor, Nirvana, Courtney Love, Garbage . . . [and the queen of the damned soundtrack, although I didn't find the movie that interesting.] I'd probably add 500 Days of Summer (movie and soundtrack) to a list of things I like, as well as the Buffy soundtrack(s) [TV].
Regarding the movies I listed before, David Lynch is the writer and director of Mulholland Drive and Inland Empire [plus Twin Peaks with Mark Frost, etc.]; Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind was written by Charlie Kaufman and directed by Michel Gondry; Dogville was written and directed by Lars von Trier; Kill Bill by Quentin Tarantino; Vanilla Sky was directed by Cameron Crowe and was a remake of the 1997 Spanish film Open Your Eyes (Abre los ojos), which was written by Alejandro Amenabar and Mateo Gil; The Virgin Suicides was written and directed by Sofia Coppola, and based on the novel by Jeffrey Eugenides; Into the Wild was written and directed by Sean Penn, and based on the novel by Jon Krakauer. Regarding film directors and writers I'd also add Richard Kelly with Donnie Darko and The Box; Neill Blomkamp with District 9; and of course I don't mind Darren Aronofsky with The Wrestler and Requiem for a Dream, although with movies like that in some ways you have to get past the darkness and anomie to get to the heart of it. I probably only saw Requiem for a Dream once, yet found it quite moving in a tragic spiritually dysphoric sense (of course I didn't agree with a lot if not most or all of what they were doing). Then there's Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (I don't think I ever saw that movie in its entirety; I probably should). Then there's Guillermo del Toro (Hell Boy, etc.); Richard Linklater's Waking Life; and of course, The Matrix; etc.
All in all if I'm a Beta (IEI), I'm okay with it. The funny thing is that's how I used to type myself before I started questioning it due to being typed as IEE by someone once (I don't blame the person; it involved analyzing writing and if I am IEI then IEE is close--one dichotomy off). With Keirsey and a lot of tests I generally typed as INFP, although Myers-Briggs and Socionics don't always equate. Anyway, the point is I used to consider myself INFp, yet I guess I got lost and overwhelmed by all the other possibilities. I'm still not surprised by the possibility of being a Beta type since it's what I had originally considered myself. Some people even thought I was ENFj/EIE once. I still think IEI might be more likely than the other Beta types, although I could be wrong. I guess it might also depend on what the bona fide established IEI's think.
On a sidenote, and I know this might be stupid, yet I saw the movie Jennifer's Body a couple of days ago, and I was wondering if anyone thinks Megan Fox ("Jennifer") is SLE and Amanda Seyfried ("Anita 'Needy'...) is IEI. I could very well be wrong, and it's quite a trivial observation, yet I'm not sure if anyone else has talked about it.
Last edited by HERO; 12-29-2011 at 02:38 AM.
Yeah, fuck betas.
Well I'd see types like Eminem and Marilyn Manson (perhaps not as much now) as revealing/exposing the shadow (negative side) of our society ["The Sibling Society"]: consumerism, power (hence no love), magical thinking, racism/prejudice, emotional blindness, emotional self-alienation [dissociation], hypocrisy, etc.
These would be some of my amateur typings, since I'm no expert:
Eminem Ni-ENFj (or SLE-Ti...)
Christgau Ni-INFp or SLE or some other Beta
Dostoyevsky Si-ISFp (or EII or EIE)
Gwyneth Paltrow Ti-ISTj; or IEI, or Gamma SF, etc.
Marilyn Manson Ni-ENFj; if not ILE; or possibly IEI (Fe-INFp)
Lady Gaga Ni-ENFj (or SLE...)
Courtney Love Ni-ENFj or Se-ESTp
The more I think about it the more I think that I might be Ni-ENFj, if not SLE (Ti-ESTp...), or more likely Fe-INFp (IEI).
Last edited by HERO; 03-20-2011 at 09:43 PM.
Though I disagree with most of your assessments, I'm really impressed with your post.
You know what, now that I think about it you do remind me of a friend of mine who I think is Si valuing. All slovenly, and like oh oh I am so comfortable wah wah. GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER LEBOWSKI!
I still have a lot of doubts about belonging to a quadra that values; and/or
[Gamma or Delta]. Maybe I'm wrong.
Due to my self-knowledge, and also due to the way other people have perceived me in real life, I'm pretty sure that I'm in a quadra that values, most likely Beta. I'm also relatively sure I'm not a Sensing type, although I could be wrong. I might also be an ethical ("Feeling") type since although one girl (for example) might consider me an "average joe", another woman might also consider me "emotionally feminine" or "fragile". And it's this "hypersensitivity" or "emotionality" (I think), that is not as accentuated in types that don't value
The sheer degree of doubt in your comments makes me think of ILI.
While INFp (IEI) is probably more likely than INTp (ILI), I can't help thinking that ESTp (SLE) is also plausible. Some people think that I might be SLE. The question is am I more of a-ego or a
-ego. Then again there are a lot of people who think I'm INTp (ILI), and a lot of people who think I'm INFp (IEI). Interestingly (or paradoxically), the person who thought I was somewhat emotional or sensitive, albeit in a subdued way I guess, when she answered some questions (on facebook) about how she perceived my personality the result was INTJ. That was a Jungian/Myers-Briggs type test... So is that more evidence to support that I'm an ILI in Socionics, or merely more evidence to support that I might be a logical type like SLE. Ultimately, I am most likely Beta: The question is which Beta (Irrational)...
And I apologize for taking so long to respond; I have been busy with moving.
So it should be obvious that I've decided that I'm Ti-ESTp (SLE). Who agrees?
Yes I do agree that you self-type as Ti-ESTp. Whether or not that's an accurate typing I'm not sure
FWIW you never struck me as particularly Ep.
So do you think I'm INFp/IEI then? Or am I some rational/judging type?
Or am I something (much) worse [than all the 16 types] that transcends classification.
I still relate to
What is the Hidden Agenda? | Hidden Agenda
"The ENTp and ESTp both have a subconscious Extroverted Ethics (Fe) function that mysteriously manifests in reality as a naive desire to socially relate with others accepting that everyone has a role to play in the world"
"The hidden agenda of the ESTp player clearly manifests itself where we see his misunderstood extroverted ethics function causing him to create a situation where people share a makeshift social sphere for a short while to satisfy his need for love and attention."
"ESTp Beta; Pragmatist; Extrovert Irrational; Esteemed;
Restructurer; Aggressor; Firm; Liberalist; Hypomanic"
What are the Argumentation groupings? | Argumentation
'The Restructurers (TP)
Restructurers usually reach conclusions about something through debate and negotiation to change, alter, or restore the structure of.
Extroverted Restructurers (eTP) tend to create something new in the world that would follow the idiom that "nothing is original" although the way they present it would be somewhat unique whether it be a new philosophy, school of thought or business venture etc.'
What are the Communication Styles groupings? | Communication Styles
"FIRM
The Industrious Types
ESTp "Marshal" ENTp "Searcher"
ESTj "Director" ENTj "Pioneer"
Extroverted with logic, these types come across to others as usually no-nonsense and purposeful in negotiating through what they want generally making things happen.
Dynamic superstars, these types readily like to achieve whatever they set their minds to keeping interactions brief and to the point.
Industrious by nature, they could at their extreme display signs of Narcissistic Personality Disorder."
What are the Stress Behaviours groupings? | Stress Behaviours
'Cycloids - Hypomanic
“Life is full of difficulties and so I need to indulge regularly in pleasure and avoid the pains of the daily drudgery!”
The Marshal (Sensory-Logical Extratim) (ESTp)
The Craftsman (Sensory-Logical Intratim) (ISTp)
The Ambassador (Sensory-Ethical Extratim) (ESFp)
The Mediator (Sensory-Ethical Intratim) (ISFp)'
"Hypomanic types are susceptible to excitement as a way of steering themselves towards pleasure and away from potential pain. The ‘cure’ for this group is of course to calm down and organise themselves into future productive action with tactics and strategy.
They have an artisan role in society where they expect to express their creative freedom within normal limits otherwise they will inevitably get irritated and move towards hypomania through the use of alcohol and drugs."
What are the Temperaments groupings? | Temperaments
'The Extroverted Irrational (EP)
Extroverted irrational types, namely the ILE, SLE, SEE, and IEE, are characterized by impulsive and unpredictable behaviour. — Wikipedia
'I could also say that EP's also come across as adaptable and flexible able to "go with the flow" in a situation that demands it. Thus we may get some random unexpected reactions to a situation where some kind of plan or schedule may have been expected.'
I'm really not sure at all what you are, but from what I've seen from you photo-wise ESTp doesn't fit imo. Something Ip could work better in that regard.
I also relate to this:
Sensing Logical Extratim - Wikisocion
'SLEs themselves constantly seem emotionally guarded, and so very rarely will anyone actually have the chance to "comfort" the SLE in the everyday use of the word. The best way to do so is to let the emotion run its course.'
'SLEs often tread carefully when it comes to interpersonal relationships because they recognize their inherent weakness in this function. They feel the need to not only be respected, but also to be held dear by others, precisely because they feel inept when it comes to relationships. Often their behavior will have the opposite effect of what they were hoping for; if they are trying to protect someone, that someone may view their "protection" as pure jealousy, and thus will attempt to break away. The SLE will respond with further limitations in order to counter what they believe is irrational rebelliousness, perhaps causing a breakdown of said relationship.'
"SLEs are under the impression that they might gain respect or admiration from others, but can never be truly loved by anyone. Sometimes, SLEs can become paranoid about their relationships with others; they often mistrust declarations of affection, and so can appear insecure."
Introverted ethics - Wikisocion
"The individual does not normally pay attention to the nuances of interpersonal relationships; he is either overly suspicious or overly assuming of his relations with others when they are not clearly defined. More importance is given to these relations as they pertain to objective mutual benefit; entertaining one another and accomplishing mutual goals are seen as the main focus, rather than seeing the relationships as rewarding in and of themselves."
"Statements by other persons reflecting their inner feelings are not fully registered by the individual if not accompanied by external emotional expression or actions. Suggestions that the individual may have acted unethically in the eyes of another person who has not clearly expressed disapproval are met with bafflement by the individual; those that are expressed without tact are either dismissed or reacted to aggressively."
'Expressions of deep personal sentiments are awkward for the individual, whether coming from another or himself. He does not see it as his "right" to place the burden of his true emotions on another, both because he knows how uncomfortable those of others make him (even when they are positive and genuine), and because of his own awkwardness in expressing them.'
I'd say that that's me in real life...
lazybones - I'd say you are ISTp, not E.
Nah. Lazybones tinkles the keys too much to be an ISTp. He writes a great post, but way too many words for an ISTp.
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
Are you serious, that's your criteria? It happens that I know an ISTp who is capable of lengthy posts. That's up to the person, not type.
Introvert, primary involved function. SEI or SLI would be my first guesses.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
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I'm very sure about Obama. I don't know how you type him but you must be wrong if you type him differently. lol.
And just to answer your question I'm sure I mistype as well. Sometimes. Cos unlike most of you, I'm usually right, lol.
If you are so good why didn't you participate in my typing thread?:wink:
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
I'm sorry but I didn't see it. If it's not too late I'm going to if I find it.:wink:If you are so good why didn't you participate in my typing thread?
You're an introvert.
How do you see Si and how do you use it?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I know where you are going....
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
I know you do.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Originally Posted by Cyrano
Nah. Lazybones tinkles the keys too much to be an ISTp. He writes a great post, but way too many words for an ISTp.
Yes I am. ISTp traits such as "introvertion," "economy," and "logical thought" might be the factors that lead to short posts from ISTps.
Another trait that ISTps share is that they like to see the facts, so take a look at some of the posts from these fine self-typed ISTps to see that they don't say much, but pack a whollup when they do:
Parkster
Absurd
Jessica
Dante
Ollobollo
Cyclops
Cyrano
And yes, they are all "capable" of lengthy posts, but don't.
Last edited by Cyrano; 09-02-2010 at 04:50 PM.
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
Ha!I know you do.
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
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Can you type me already? I barely wrote something on these boards.
Edit: I like "Pied Piper", very original.
Last edited by neverthesame; 09-02-2010 at 06:35 PM.
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Yes, of course I consider myself unique and unpredictable. But I believe that only I am right, that I know better, lol. It doesn't bother me at all, I like listening to the opinions of others.
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