What am I? (80Q)

[Myst]

I would still believe SLE sooner than SEE.

[yeves]

@totalize now we are officially duals, amazing.. final confirm

i think most appropriate type for myself is SEE

< / 3

[Persephone]

< / 3

https://youtu.be/p2Rch6WvPJE

[Myst]

Reread a bit. 4D Te is so obvious (along with the Se valuing, of course). Guess still LIE over SLE because of a bit more Rationality and Se being a bit too stereotypically presented. What's a bit confusing there is I saw some stuff that could be seen as Ti valuing (though as I said earlier, LIEs can come off that way), while also statements that are seemingly Fe devaluing.

@totalize what makes you so unsure about T vs F? Why are you not sure on 4D Te/1D Fi?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Okay @totalize I've been thinking about this. Maybe LIE.

I mean, we get along well and that is not uncommon with LIE/IEIs really - I don't think supervision always feels bad or something. In a pure intertype relationship-y way you feel like my semi-dual, but your Te is too good in a way that SEEs cannot pull off.

It's probably only if the LIE is naturally socipoathic or an asshole that they would make the IEI turn into a cutter anyway. Non-socionics reasons.

[totalize]

I will just settle on ENTj. Thanks all for input.

[ghost of forum past]

Se PoLR confirm/final


/s

[totalize]

The old questionnaires were a bit outdated, as they're nearly two yrs old now and I have grown a bit. So, I re-answered them: I edited it in the OP. Tbh, I found this hard, as I tried to answer very clearly and honestly, but found I had no answers to many questions, and that some questions were simply very stupid, so I did not bother to answer them. I simply deleted the questions that I found were too hard to answer.

Are there other questionnaires which are better?

What is good topic to talk about on video?

[Myst]

The old questionnaires were a bit outdated, as they're nearly two yrs old now and I have grown a bit. So, I re-answered them: I edited it in the OP. Tbh, I found this hard, as I tried to answer very clearly and honestly, but found I had no answers to many questions, and that some questions were simply very stupid, so I did not bother to answer them. I simply deleted the questions that I found were too hard to answer.

Are there other questionnaires which are better?

What is good topic to talk about on video?

Gonna post more later but (based on this and our discord talks) I guess my initial rejecting of SLE for you because you seemed to write too stereotypical Se/SLE things was wrong.


EDIT:

Originally this was discussed as your Rationality and I'm quoting this as I was agreeing with it originally "it feels like theres a purpose/goal behind your communication, it instructs and and imparts far more than it observes" (quoting from @lungs). I guess the goal orientation can be just Decisive and strengthened Logic.

This was also said: "your logic seems applicable > philisophical to me", I'm quoting this bit too because this is true, some very strong Te gets displayed that way but then it changes into another mode and gets analytical too and I see that as Ti, which I wondered about earlier too.

"the brusqueness, the utilitarian outlook, the disdain for emotional outbursts, other people describing you as cold - all of these things steer me towards Te and away from warm, friendly, hoping-to-be liked, Fe-HA SLE"

I was also agreeing with this but when chatting with OP, he does have the warm friendly side too. SLE can have disdain for getting too emotional with that getting in the way of goals.


I'll post a few analyses of some parts of the 80q later

[ashlesha]

I don't really type total anything anymore ftr.

[totalize]

I don't really type total anything anymore ftr.

Me neither sigh

[Sol]

What is good topic to talk about on video?

tell about your loves and crushes. time is unlimited

[totalize]

tell about your loves and crushes. time is unlimited

omg so awkward.

I will try though. Maybe tomorrow or next two days I'll make video.

[Sol]

I will try though. Maybe tomorrow or next two days I'll make video.

This would be funny. I'm sure your type as INFP, while others need a video like this to understand you.

[totalize]

This would be funny. I'm sure your type as INFP, while others need a video like this to understand you.

sure, but u don't post reasoning.

anyway, you can have video number 2 - if u can post reasoning after u type me INFP I would be grateful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLEhbT8oiFk

at 6m50s my neighbour enters the flat and he was sort of talking to his girlfriend and I wanted to know what he was saying so

also, you must excuse my appearance

[Sol]

sure, but u don't post reasoning

hello totalize

I post correct types what is enough. To understand reasoning needs skills which newcomers have no anyway. Also they may find any reasoning themselves to check the type.

A little of words:
"I get crushes all the time, online and irl"

It not common for T or J types. But is expected for P-F types.

Then try to think by yourself.

[totalize]

I post correct types what is enough.

But if u do not post why you can not expect any person to agree other than by authority. To gain authority you must at some point show that you are right, not just claim you are right.

To understand reasoning needs skills which newcomers have no anyway

Ye possibly but it is not that difficult.

[Sol]

But if u do not post why you can not expect any person to agree

Sure. My task is just to inform about the type what helps to a person to understand it himself - he'll pay more attention to it. It's the way I went through in past - gathered a heap of opinions, did tests and then thought and checked by IR for about a year. In the end of this you not only know your type but know the typology enough to use it yourself (kind of).

> Ye possibly but it is not that difficult.

To understand correctly the socionics "reasoning" is difficult enough you thought yourself LIE for some time.

Check my bloggers examples. Beta T type girls there. SLE are your duals.

[totalize]

mmmm it is of course possible that you are right. but then every oter person on this forum, every test (includes your ir test) every written profile, and every questionnaire would be very wrong.

it doesnt take expert in socionics to choose who is more likely to be right. even newcomer with 0 experience can see it. it is just empirics.

[Sol]

but then every oter person on this forum

May be some would agree with me now about your INFP type. Also there are more people than said opinions.
As the problem I think you've read the types descriptions, and as having NF type with excellent imagination and own opinion - have played for that type. This may mislead people who redundantly trust to "words" in questionnaires/interviews and reject (or are not good) in nonverbal part.

> every test (includes your ir test)

IR test is not perfect. F types seem to have more issues with the criterion I used. Also you needed to follow the recommended procedure for complete analysis, other are more experimental ways. Other tests you may misleaded similarly like did by a questionnaire.

> every written profile

I understand your behavior as close to P-F types, including based on types descriptions. There are more or lesser meaningful traits in descriptions, to correctly distinguish them and to use this info on yourself needs some qualification.

> it doesnt take expert in socionics to choose who is more likely to be right

The better qualification you have the more chance your choice of versions will be correct. It's evidently.
In past you've chosen LIE, now we see like you report that often get crushes - it fits IEI like was my version, but totally not to LIE. What says about how is enough your qualification "to choose" as novice and of ones who typed you to J-T type.

You may to have higher than average IQ, good education, etc non-types things what help you be effective in non-common regions. But your casual behavior like with crushes points to F-P type. And argumentation style is closer to F types - naive in base logic, a little.

[Myst]

And argumentation style is closer to F types - naive in base logic, a little.

He's not really naive in logic, but compared to Lxx types less absolute focus on it or on a systematic approach by default. He seems to be on par with T creative.

[totalize]

May be some would agree with me now about your INFP type . . . What says about how is enough your qualification "to choose" as novice and of ones who typed you to J-T type.

Seems unlikely they will change though.

As the problem I think you've read the types descriptions, and as having NF type with excellent imagination and own opinion - have played for that type. This may mislead people who redundantly trust to "words" in questionnaires/interviews and reject (or are not good) in nonverbal part.

It does not help that there are 10-15 written profiles for every type but on them non-verbal info is <5%.

I understand your behavior as close to P-F types, including based on types descriptions. There are more or lesser meaningful traits in descriptions, to correctly distinguish them and to use this info on yourself needs some qualification. But your casual behavior like with crushes points to F-P type. And argumentation style is closer to F types - naive in base logic, a little.

actually, I do not disagree with you here about F-P. I also feel like a F-P type relative to lots of people I know who are clearly logicals. But introvert & / super-ego... nah. I do not need or desire any help in these areas. I actively prefer not to receive this type of thing from others.

[totalize]

some self-analysis, over past few days:

1. I get extremely strong negative reaction from people trying to push or pressure me or make me do something their way. I am not interested in other people's attempts to tell me what to do. Even when my SO puts pressure on me it starts some kind of disagreement-fight. I rly fucking dislike it when some person tries to assert some authority on me. Devalue- or high-dimensionality (or both)?

2. I feel like "logic" is just a means to an end, maybe something you use to further your demands. People invent reasoning and facts all the time and there is very little objectivity in the world. I have a thorough understanding of "classical logic" but in the real world no person is totally "logical", they insert their prejudices over their logic and use the latter to justify the former.

3. I feel like is a general understanding of your internal sensations and I actually feel good at this but it seems really unimportant. I feel like I have strong because I am usually able to think about what I am sensing at that moment and put it into words (and feel it, too), but it is very background behaviour.

4. I feel good at estimating possibilities or potentials. But somehow this activity seems boring. It's kinda like, child's play. Seems liek a thought exercise, not a real way to live.

5. I am good at looking at BROAD trends, but I am not good at estimating outcomes of my own present behaviour. I need some other person to calmly help me plan for my own future. What does this say about - low dimensionality?

[silke]

1. I get extremely strong negative reaction from people trying to push or pressure me or make me do something their way. I am not interested in other people's attempts to tell me what to do. Even when my SO puts pressure on me it starts some kind of disagreement-fight. I rly fucking dislike it when some person tries to assert some authority on me. Devalue- or high-dimensionality (or both)?

this could be interpreted as "Tactical" Sensing trait, knowing how to do something, not needing instruction or being pressured into other person's methods, yet needing a "Strategic" Intuitive to outline long-term future goals for you:

5. I am good at looking at BROAD trends, but I am not good at estimating outcomes of my own present behaviour. I need some other person to calmly help me plan for my own future. What does this say about - low dimensionality?

[Myst]

some self-analysis, over past few days:

1. I get extremely strong negative reaction from people trying to push or pressure me or make me do something their way. I am not interested in other people's attempts to tell me what to do. Even when my SO puts pressure on me it starts some kind of disagreement-fight. I rly fucking dislike it when some person tries to assert some authority on me. Devalue- or high-dimensionality (or both)?

Se base has this:

"He is keenly aware of territorial conflicts and confrontational behavior occurring around him. He very quickly becomes confrontational when others try to make him move or get him to do something in an aggressive or confrontational way. He quickly recognizes when people are trying to get each other to do something or are trying to organize him for some purpose.
He wants to make all decisions himself about what he will do, wear, eat, look like, etc., and resents any attempts by others to make these decisions for him."

(from http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=Se)

I personally don't dislike the pressure in that way btw, I just decide what my response will be and then respond.

I do resent it too though if someone else wants to make a decision instead of me. Attempts at asserting authority on me are meh too, but yeah the rest I don't react to as strongly as you do.

2. I feel like "logic" is just a means to an end, maybe something you use to further your demands. People invent reasoning and facts all the time and there is very little objectivity in the world. I have a thorough understanding of "classical logic" but in the real world no person is totally "logical", they insert their prejudices over their logic and use the latter to justify the former.

Fits Ti creative and what I've seen from you on discord.

4. I feel good at estimating possibilities or potentials. But somehow this activity seems boring. It's kinda like, child's play. Seems liek a thought exercise, not a real way to live.

What's the real way to live instead?

5. I am good at looking at BROAD trends, but I am not good at estimating outcomes of my own present behaviour. I need some other person to calmly help me plan for my own future. What does this say about - low dimensionality?

Oh you finally found a weak IE after all? This does sound like Ni suggestive.

this could be interpreted as "Tactical" Sensing trait, knowing how to do something, not needing instruction or being pressured into other person's methods, yet needing a "Strategic" Intuitive to outline long-term future goals for you:

I'm a Tactical Sensing but don't relate to this that extremely much while SLE/SEE isn't and they are described exactly in that way.

Reinin sucks anyway

[Sol]

Reinin sucks anyway

Hallelujah! You are on the way to the true Faith.

[Hays]

@totalized, I was wondering if you have any Maori in your heritage?

[totalize]

Oh you finally found a weak IE after all? This does sound like Ni suggestive.

I'm a Tactical Sensing but don't relate to this that extremely much while SLE/SEE isn't and they are described exactly in that way.

this could be interpreted as "Tactical" Sensing trait, knowing how to do something, not needing instruction or being pressured into other person's methods, yet needing a "Strategic" Intuitive to outline long-term future goals for you:

Well, it's like this: I am perfectly capable of planning a long-term future for something, or someone, even for myself: I could draft an idea now in five minutes. But I do not care particularly to implement it. I prefer bendable and flexible plans (which indicates P type). Somewhere along the road, I will find something better, but somehow I am quite able to see what others should do rigidly.

I know a lot of people do not say that I have weak . I am not sure myself (I do not ascribe myself a type atm). But actually it does not feel like I am always in "control" of it, like it even seems vital ring, not mental. Sometimes I get intuition time-flashes, kinda like imaginative daydreams, in which I see pictures of the past or future. But I can't control, reproduce, or understand them, understand any of the patterns, or anything. but I can observe patterns in real world more easily.

Like sometimes if I am doing nothing and daydreaming I will get primordial pictures, like I am on a plane and there are lots of clouds - or I will think about my primary school but it is empty or wahtever. These thoughts are scary, as I can't parse why my brain has decided to bring them to me. Nostalgia is a powerful feeling and I can't manage it at all well myself. (To me this suggests contact-).

What's the real way to live instead?

I can't prescribe the real way to live to everyone. However — some way of living should lead to material (concrete) movements, not thought experiments. I dislike thought experiments, argument by analogy, devils advocate et cetera. If you found the answer, you should say it or do it directly, there is no need for this kind of play.

[totalize]

@totalized, I was wondering if you have any Maori in your heritage?

Nope.

[totalize]

Further comments, a bit about the answers I did not reply in questionnaire:

In this world I basically have like three very close friends - two best (male) friends and my SO. Because I share more emotionality with an SO than my male friends, they usually end up a very close friend, but in a different way. Then I have many other friends, some local, some around the world, with whom I maintain contact and meet and enjoy time with when the opportunity arises.

I like to spend time with these two friends because (they are very different people), I feel like I can say pretty much anything, we can talk about anything, and there are few limitations. Humour is extremely important and we laugh a lot together and have a lot of fun that way or we have interesting discussions, which sometimes get very heated but moods are quickly resolved. One of these friends I type ILI the other I do not know. I'm guessing IEE.

Now problem is that while I know that I feel psych-compatible with these people most of the time, they do not provide me with constant major frustration, I do not feel I can learn anything from them in terms of how to process or judge information. We have very interesting conversations, have very strong friendship, but we are not naturally feeding each other anything. Sometimes one person will take the lead over the other in some direction but I do not feel that we compensate for one another's strengths in the way that we can learn something or grow in some way.

But I feel like this from all people. I do not want help from others to make decisions for me, I do not necessarily want alternative viewpoints, I do not want to be told how to do something or what to do (beyond material suggestions like "try this beer" or "this movie is good", or specific professional help), or how to view the world. I do not feel like I need any assistance or instruction and when I receive it, in any area, it is painful and annoying. That's why I do not get this idea that when you meet dual you will become good friends because I do not need, rely, or use my friends in this way.

This isn't to say that I don't like receiving info in any IE because that is dumb af. Sometimes people tell me interesting facts, new ways to look at something, new ideas and so on, and this is cool. But never have I felt in my whole life that I want people around me who will help me grow. I surround myself with people so that I am not lonely, so that my life has humour and passion and so that we may support one another where necessary. Self-growth is my mission, not others.

[Hays]

Nope.

I asked as in some previous photos you’ve posted as well as the video somewhat, your facial use of features (especially the eyes) reminds me of a person from part Maori descent who I think to be a fairly quiet EIE (some IEI have a similarity also).
This particular EIE does have some anxieties which the use of cigarettes assists and I haven’t picked up anything like that from yourself.
Did not get a definite type for you from the video though so all the best in finding your type.

[Hope]

Se lead I'd say. SLE, SEE. I didnt read your questionnaire, but I saw your pictures. Se subtype. Second guessing ENFx.

Def not LxE since you dont VI Te.

What do you score on tests?

[totalize]

Se lead I'd say. SLE, SEE. I didnt read your questionnaire, but I saw your pictures. Se subtype. Second guessing ENFx.

Def not LxE since you dont VI Te.

What do you score on tests?

On all tests I take I score in roughly same amount, SLE/SEE/EIE/LIE. In tests with VI component I am more likely to score logical.

[Myst]

Well, it's like this: I am perfectly capable of planning a long-term future for something, or someone, even for myself: I could draft an idea now in five minutes. But I do not care particularly to implement it. I prefer bendable and flexible plans (which indicates P type). Somewhere along the road, I will find something better, but somehow I am quite able to see what others should do rigidly.

Heh if I bothered to plan something like that, I'd want to execute it.

I know a lot of people do not say that I have weak . I am not sure myself (I do not ascribe myself a type atm). But actually it does not feel like I am always in "control" of it, like it even seems vital ring, not mental. Sometimes I get intuition time-flashes, kinda like imaginative daydreams, in which I see pictures of the past or future. But I can't control, reproduce, or understand them, understand any of the patterns, or anything. but I can observe patterns in real world more easily.

Like sometimes if I am doing nothing and daydreaming I will get primordial pictures, like I am on a plane and there are lots of clouds - or I will think about my primary school but it is empty or wahtever. These thoughts are scary, as I can't parse why my brain has decided to bring them to me. Nostalgia is a powerful feeling and I can't manage it at all well myself. (To me this suggests contact-).

Yeah seen the 1D Ni pattern in chat since then Idk about "contact Ni", I don't believe in those nuances in the theory, they are not pointing to anything in actuality.

Not scary to me like it is to you. Interesting.

I can't prescribe the real way to live to everyone. However — some way of living should lead to material (concrete) movements, not thought experiments. I dislike thought experiments, argument by analogy, devils advocate et cetera. If you found the answer, you should say it or do it directly, there is no need for this kind of play.

Hhehh exact same opinion.

[totalize]

Heh if I bothered to plan something like that, I'd want to execute it.

To me planning is a demonstrative exercise: it is something you should do often and casually, but plans don't need to be executed. I just mean in day to day life - I think authorities should make strategic plans, but that's sort of disconnected from my life.

Not scary to me like it is to you. Interesting.

It's scary because the reason for those images presenting themselves is unclear, but I feel like they must mean something. So why are they coming to me?

[Myst]

To me planning is a demonstrative exercise: it is something you should do often and casually, but plans don't need to be executed. I just mean in day to day life - I think authorities should make strategic plans, but that's sort of disconnected from my life.

Err why should you do it if the plan is not to be executed? I'm not following you here

It's scary because the reason for those images presenting themselves is unclear, but I feel like they must mean something. So why are they coming to me?

Hmm I'm kind of skeptical of the idea that they must mean something. Sometimes I do think they mean something/point at something though. As for why they come up if there is no meaning in them... idk. Brain quirk Like for me an example of that is when fragments of old dreams will come up randomly here and there. Even from dreams like a decade ago or more.

[totalize]

Err why should you do it if the plan is not to be executed? I'm not following you here

well you shouldnt do it just for fun, but I mean that maybe later you can not execute the plan.

it causes some trouble for me, because to me I decide at the moment of execution whether to execute or not, and I can decide that easily, but some people make a plan six months before and expect it will be met at that date. things change!!!