Fe PoLR: how does it show in ISTps and INTps?

[stanprollyright]

POLRs have fake smiles
POLRs have fake frowns

A fake smile is still

[thePirate]

A fake smile is still

PoLR doesn't mean your incapable of smiling or fake smiling, a person uses every element in some way whether its clumsy or skillful. I know what he's talking about and I've seen this particular brand of fake smile in ILIs. Its really obvious and prominent almost to a wtf point.

[Nexus]

A fake smile is still

perhaps a forced smile; creatives use in unsual ways, sometimes as a dynamic representation of (which is more typical of base types), but at other times to communicate that they don't or are not willing to understand; just because a function is unvalued it doesn't mean that it can't be used in unvalued ways...

[redbaron]

perhaps a forced smile; creatives use in unsual ways, sometimes as a dynamic representation of (which is more typical of base types), but at other times to communicate that they don't or are not willing to understand; just because a function is unvalued it doesn't mean that it can't be used in unvalued ways...

yes, interesting...

[stanprollyright]

PoLR doesn't mean your incapable of smiling or fake smiling, a person uses every element in some way whether its clumsy or skillful. I know what he's talking about and I've seen this particular brand of fake smile in ILIs. Its really obvious and prominent almost to a wtf point.

I realize this, but how often do they even bother? I would argue that it's a lot less often than other types, others are just way better at it.

[silverchris9]

Fi-polrs are unaware of how they make others feel about them (as in, if they alienate others, if they're pissing others off, if they're making others unconfortable)

Fe-polrs are unaware of how they affect the general emotional atmosphere, and how they "come across" to others. They won't notice if they make an awkward comment that depresses everyone, or that "ruins the mood". They do like to learn about how their comments make other people feel, and they'll hold back a statement if they know it will make someone else feel bad. They also can't really manage others' impressions of them particularly well, at least in terms of actions they take in the moment, decisions they make on the fly, and such (they can be perfectly good at preparing before hand in order to present themselves well, I suppose). For example, my ILI friend is really the nicest person ever, and very very humble about how smart she is (she goes to Princeton now, so she's basically a freaking genius---not that all geniuses go to Princeton, but you know what I mean). But because she doesn't naturally think about how she comes across to people, there was one girl (ESE; they were conflictors anyway) who totally thought she was arrogant and self-important, probably because my friend answered a question quickly or told someone they were wrong or something. It's that kind of thing, the sort of thing that comes quite naturally (too naturally) to IEIs.

Fe-polr types also tend to be uncomfortable about opening up around people until they've built an Fi-type bond with you.

[redbaron]

silverchris, that was really helpful. thank you.

[silverchris9]

silverchris, that was really helpful. thank you.

I'm glad! Also, I just noticed that both of our SNs are colors followed by other words (although yours is a title and mine is my first name).

[Lobo]

Fi-polrs are unaware of how they make others feel about them (as in, if they alienate others, if they're pissing others off, if they're making others unconfortable)

Fe-polrs are unaware of how they affect the general emotional atmosphere, and how they "come across" to others. They won't notice if they make an awkward comment that depresses everyone, or that "ruins the mood". They do like to learn about how their comments make other people feel, and they'll hold back a statement if they know it will make someone else feel bad. They also can't really manage others' impressions of them particularly well, at least in terms of actions they take in the moment, decisions they make on the fly, and such (they can be perfectly good at preparing before hand in order to present themselves well, I suppose). For example, my ILI friend is really the nicest person ever, and very very humble about how smart she is (she goes to Princeton now, so she's basically a freaking genius---not that all geniuses go to Princeton, but you know what I mean). But because she doesn't naturally think about how she comes across to people, there was one girl (ESE; they were conflictors anyway) who totally thought she was arrogant and self-important, probably because my friend answered a question quickly or told someone they were wrong or something. It's that kind of thing, the sort of thing that comes quite naturally (too naturally) to IEIs.

Fe-polr types also tend to be uncomfortable about opening up around people until they've built an Fi-type bond with you.

Yeah, I think the more obvious way to distinguish Fe polrs is the way they sometimes say things that have no concern for the other person's emotional state, Fe "taboos." I have to admit that growing up, it was really entertaining to see my SLI brother get punished for what he said, and he would be completely oblivious as to what just happened, hehe that noob. Well, it sucks being on the receiving end, but you get used to it. As much as I might love them, they don't do that well for emotional support though .

[thePirate]

its not their fault though, you dont do well at..well, doing things

[717495]

I think silverchris made some good additional points to the individual behavior. Fe-PoLR is a direct confusion and inability with Fe related things, that one doesn't value whatsoever, thinks is a waste of time, and uses Fi instead. If you think of Fi-PoLR types, they're actually better at Fe and deal in Fe a lot. There's a pretty large significance right there. Ti dominants compared to Fe-PoLRs actually seek Fe, so they're "turned on" by it, where as Fe-PoLRs avoid it, escape it, hide from it.

I was at my Grandma's house a few weeks ago, and everyone was having fun, talking, making jokes, and I felt like I needed to leave and go lay down, because even if I felt connections with others, the atmosphere was too wild and fun for me, even joyous things and little exchanges of emotion were annoying to me, directed at me or others, whatever it was. I was laying down in the other room, and my brother came in, who was the one who was causing a lot of the Fe trouble in the first place, and he was drunk, but alone and he started talking to me in gibberish, and I felt better because it was now more personal, and that he would come see me and establish a connection with me. And it warmed me back up, and I started begin talking to him about serious things, and letting him know by responding positively that I was still there for him, and I didn't mean to leave him and everyone else. I was just exhausted from the Fe, from the get go, but I don't know if he caught on to it, I think he just thought I was tired (which is partly true: they were "tiring me out.") The main thing about this story, is that both connections were kind of fake though. Because I think he is Fi-PoLR and he just wanted to come in and bother me. But I still felt better about it, because I could see him more personally, and not feel the void in visiting yet not wanting to visit. I think he is an SLE, so he activates me with Se and whatnot, which is extremely positive. It's fun when we can get out and move around, do adventurous things, or be weird. He picks on me with both Ti and and Fe though.

I honestly think silverchris said some things I relate to with Fe-PoLR though, even though there's a lot more to be said I think.

[Lobo]

its not their fault though, you dont do well at..well, doing things

I was kidding with the tone, but I think it's more painful for them if you expect emotional support and then get disappointed, making them feel frustrated and powerless, rather than trying to deal with your sadness/need for support through other means. Se polr isn't necessarily about doing things, it's something that will seep into different aspects of life and relationships in general. But, that's something completely unrelated to this thread .

[Creepy-male]

All manifestations of F-polrs will be accompanied by another F-DS behavior

For example Fe-PoLR will be accompied by mobilzing Fi-DS

and Fi-PoLR will be accompied by mobilizing Fe-DS

So there is a correlation between PoLR and mobilizing in regards to Fe and Fi matters, which I find extremely interesting.

Any ideas?

btw...

Help in this element is appreciated, but past a certain point is seen as excessive. The subject is more comfortable using this function than the suggestive function but still can only use it sporadically. If he isn't careful and directs it at an individual who does not value it, he will likely meet a harsh response, since they are almost sure to see it as a puerile gesture (more so than when he uses the suggestive function, usage of which comes off as more mature and well-considered, since he takes it more seriously in the first place). The subject's innate lack of balance in the mobilizing function can easily cause him to indulge in it recklessly or to sorely neglect it. It is best used in support of the suggestive function.

If too much of this element is ambient, the person will get bored or even become repelled. He sees it as a necessary part of good living, but not a primary life goal.

Mobilizing is also sometimes referred to as the hidden agenda in some practices of socionics and is the creative function of your dual.

[matilda]

All manifestations of F-polrs will be accompanied by another F-DS behavior

could you give an example for this?

[Suz]

POLRs have fake smiles
POLRs have fake frowns

very interesting. i've def seen the Fe-POLR fake smile.

I didn't know about the fake frowns. But now that you mention it. . .i can recall it, in ILEs in particular.

[Suz]

All manifestations of F-polrs will be accompanied by another F-DS behavior

For example Fe-PoLR will be accompied by mobilzing Fi-DS

and Fi-PoLR will be accompied by mobilizing Fe-DS

So there is a correlation between PoLR and mobilizing in regards to Fe and Fi matters, which I find extremely interesting.

Any ideas?

btw...



Mobilizing is also sometimes referred to as the hidden agenda in some practices of socionics and is the creative function of your dual.

These are fascinating points and I am also eager to hear discussion on these!

[Creepy-male]

could you give an example for this?

I am just making an observation based on model A, personally I've never investigated into how this works in reality, in fact I am skeptical of model A so I wouldn't be surprised if there was an element of bullshit in this.

as you know INTp's and ISTp's have a Fe-PoLR
however INTp's and ISTp's will have an Fi-Mobilizing Function also

so really they are the same peice of information.... if someone tells you they are Fe-PoLR, another way of saying this would be to say Fi-Mobilizing. They are in fact the same statement because each of them are nessicary consequences of each other, they are inconnected, in linear algebra talk you would say they are linearly dependant variables with respect to each other.

In fact all PoLR's and Mobilizing Functions are this way....

If you Ne-PoLR
you are Ni-Mobilizing

If you are Si-PoLR
you are Se-Mobilizing

and so forth

it even goes further.... specificying one peice of information will tell you a total of 4 information elements and their positions in model A.... an additional peice of information not specified will give you the other 4. So while 8 functions used in model A, you only have to express two dimensions of information, two linearly independant variables, to arrive at a personality. Since there are eight functions.... 8*2 = 16 types.

There is more complexity to the patterns than just this, but it presents some interesting questions....

like what is the relationship between PoLR and Mobilizing, and why does simply switching the introversion/extroversion of a sensing, feeling, intuition, or thinking function give you the relationship between PoLR and Mobilizing. Why does it work out like this?

That question is perhaps the most interesting part of this, once you add the greater complexity of how actually four functions are linked together, you arrive at a greater question, and so forth.

[Suz]

Why are you so eager to accept everything anyone says? Ever consider they might just be messing with you?

Why do you assume I'm accepting it? And "everything anyone says" is a huge blanket statement. Look up my posts--I disagree with people at times, and I am not shy about stating so.

In my post that you quoted, I'm just expressing open consideration of an interesting thought that someone put on the table. Acceptance will depend on whether it proves true in my and others' experience. Diana, you must not be too good with abstractions and uncertainty.

I do know that the Fe-POLR and fake smiles has been a pattern ime, so I think the Fi-POLR and fake frowns is a possibility, and an interesting way to put Fe-HA actually.

[Nexus]

very interesting. i've def seen the Fe-POLR fake smile.

I didn't know about the fake frowns. But now that you mention it. . .i can recall it, in ILEs in particular.

yeah, it's defeinitely interesting in the conext if the idea that so-called merry types are only merry during the day, mostly to hide the sadness they experience at night, whereas serious types are quite comfortable at night but feel frustrated in ther daily lives...as an suggestive and mobilizing type, I'm very receptive to these types of behavioral trends...anyway, the fake smile as I remember from some definite ILIs as Jeff Goldblum and Michael Moore kind of means 'I understand but I don't respect you because I am serious'...the fake frown I get from creatives, especially when they are lonely, bored, or misunderstood, means something along the lines of 'I know but I don't respect you because I am joking' or 'I am trying to make you laugh'

[redbaron]

yeah, it's defeinitely interesting in the conext if the idea that so-called merry types are only merry during the day, mostly to hide the sadness they experience at night, whereas serious types are quite comfortable at night but feel frustrated in ther daily lives...as an suggestive and mobilizing type, I'm very receptive to these types of behavioral trends...anyway, the fake smile as I remember from some definite ILIs as Jeff Goldblum and Michael Moore kind of means 'I understand but I don't respect you because I am serious'...the fake frown I get from creatives, especially when they are lonely, bored, or misunderstood, means something along the lines of 'I know but I don't respect you because I am joking' or 'I am trying to make you laugh'

what the...??

[ArchonAlarion]

Fe polr is not having little energy for social interactions, being a dark and mysterious individualist, disliking expressiveness, etc.

Those things are related to the 5/5w4 fixation.

Socionics is self contained in that being Fe polr MEANS being Fe polr. Not emotion polr, or "contemporary american family gathering polr", or cheerleader polr.


Please do not think that being emotionally withdrawn is Fe polr (like polikujm-weed will text vomit until the end of time), because there are plenty of Alpha NT 5's who you will mistype.


Note: If there is something about your personality that feels like a drive, fear, constant anxiety, shame, deception, stress, etc IT'S NOT SOCIONICS!

[Suz]

Fe polr is not having little energy for social interactions, being a dark and mysterious individualist, disliking expressiveness, etc.

Those things are related to the 5/5w4 fixation.

Socionics is self contained in that being Fe polr MEANS being Fe polr. Not emotion polr, or "contemporary american family gathering polr", or cheerleader polr.


Please do not think that being emotionally withdrawn is Fe polr (like polikujm-weed will text vomit until the end of time), because there are plenty of Alpha NT 5's who you will mistype.


Note: If there is something about your personality that feels like a drive, fear, constant anxiety, shame, deception, stress, etc IT'S NOT SOCIONICS!

Ok well you said what Fe-POLR is not, and then you said Fe-POLR is Fe-POLR, but you didn't really say was Fe-POLR is then.

[ArchonAlarion]

Well I had no intention of telling you what Fe polr was, but I'll elaborate slightly.

Models are always wrong. They may be well constructed and correlate very closely, but at the end of the day, they are no substitute for reality.

In the same way, Fe has no exact analogies. Fe is Fe is Fe is Fe... You have to be able to recognize Fe, not some shitty analogy to Fe like emotions, expressions, w/e.

I would very much like to tell you what Fe polr is like, but reality is not a mcdonalds happy meal and neither is socionics. Type behaviors are subtle and contextual, not loud, colorful, and in your face ready to deliver.

[Beautiful sky]

When everyone else is displaying Fe, Fe polr looks at it as too much outright emotion and wishes the person would quit it or quickly becomes mistrustful, but again within Fe there are so many kinds of emotion and gestures that it really depends on what is displayed and how Fe polr individual is perceiving or feels like at the moment that this is going on. You can miss and Fe polr because if they feel happy and want you to feel happy and you are being happy, their Fe polr will not come out and strike you.

A perfect example is that my mom is INTp. We went to a family get together and she was feeling serious and I started to make anti serious facial gestures. She quickly grabbed onto it and asked me to stop. So, it depends on the circumstances that the Fe polr is in that determines how they will act.

[Nexus]

well here is how I look at it; Descartes was believed to have said 'I think therefore I am'; you might also consider, 'I feel therefore I'm not'; feelings are internal negations of thought, they usually stop what has been judged and put to action for whatever reason, but when feeling complements thought they are in agreement; introverted thinking progresses unhindered and on its own; it does not change but requires much understanding to communicate, and therefore the feeling that adapts to it is dynamic and exroverted; behaviors involve gestures that help to aid understanding; on the other hand, when introverted thinking has failed, thought becomes dynamic, extroverted, and guided by the most important static introverted feelings; these independent boundaries are not complex enough to require guidance by understanding, and so are widely applicable; thus it is the chance occurrence of knowledge that spurs thinking extroverts and feeling introverts to action... PoLR as I express it is a lack of energy o explain things to people when I only feel as though there has been nothing worth explaining or a lack of respect for ideas that are made to seem more complex than they are; I am dynamic, I don't remember everything I have thought only what I wanted for myself and how I acheived my objectives...understand?

what the...??

please excuse me, when I said at night I actually meant unconsciously

[Park]

PoLR as I express it is a lack of energy to explain things to people when I only feel as though there has been nothing worth explaining

I relate to this.

[thePirate]

Well I had no intention of telling you what Fe polr was, but I'll elaborate slightly.

Models are always wrong. They may be well constructed and correlate very closely, but at the end of the day, they are no substitute for reality.

In the same way, Fe has no exact analogies. Fe is Fe is Fe is Fe... You have to be able to recognize Fe, not some shitty analogy to Fe like emotions, expressions, w/e.

I would very much like to tell you what Fe polr is like, but reality is not a mcdonalds happy meal and neither is socionics. Type behaviors are subtle and contextual, not loud, colorful, and in your face ready to deliver.

yeah, agreed. but people need to start somewhere.

[redbaron]

Fe is Fe is Fe is Fe... You have to be able to recognize Fe, not some shitty analogy to Fe like emotions, expressions, w/e.

this means nothing to me. you're basically saying it has no definition.

[717495]

Fe polr is not having little energy for social interactions, being a dark and mysterious individualist, disliking expressiveness, etc.

Those things are related to the 5/5w4 fixation.

Socionics is self contained in that being Fe polr MEANS being Fe polr. Not emotion polr, or "contemporary american family gathering polr", or cheerleader polr.


Please do not think that being emotionally withdrawn is Fe polr (like polikujm-weed will text vomit until the end of time), because there are plenty of Alpha NT 5's who you will mistype.


Note: If there is something about your personality that feels like a drive, fear, constant anxiety, shame, deception, stress, etc IT'S NOT SOCIONICS!

You really have no idea what you're talking about, and are mincing words... why don't you learn a bit from everyone here.

[redbaron]

Or learn how to observe socionics in meat space. That goes for a lot of people.

BTW, I fake smiles all the time. If I don't, I look more like a scary person and like an asshole than I do, generally. Being rude does not go well with being practical because it's not. There's also a thing called adaptation which is a primary component in survival, on a theoretical and common sense level. Being Fe PoLR doesn't mean you cannot pretend to feel a certain way or that you should never exude expressions meant to pacify others and prevent people from assuming you hate them. Otherwise you may not get very far in the world unless you can manage to survive under a rock or as being solely self-employed, but even then, you need to bend to others, even if it means putting on a friendly front. Besides, I even don't like it when people never smile. I need some verification of where I stand, even if it is a very small piece of evidence. Too much of that will scare me, though.

How about an example of Fe PoLR: Having to attend a gathering where the center piece (speaker or say a video) exudes an effect where people are being moved to tears around me. Fe PoLR in me makes me want to crawl into a deep and dark hole. I also fight tooth and nail with myself to not be emotionally affected.

I experienced this recently due to religious gathering reasons on several occasions. It's not that I disrespect the emotional people, but it weirds me out, quite frankly. I have no problem being emotionally affected when I am alone in the privacy of my own home.

Let me put it this way: the everyone-around-me-is-really-sad-or-really-happy thing makes me feel like the floor was pulled under me or gravity disappeared and I cannot figure out how to function so survival mode kicks in where I frantically in my mind figure out how to escape this atmosphere in the most non-attention-garnering way possible where I can look emotionally unaffected and emotionally inanimate in this situation without sticking out like a sore thumb.

I can be semi-expressive with friends, but this is totally different. It instantly triggers a recoil response. It's like the gag reflex, as a physical instant response to something your body rejects, in psychological and soiconics terms. That's the best analogy I can think of.

So this is one instance of what it 'looks like' as it happens internally because Fe PoLR and looks like is kind of an oxymoron, on some level.

good point. thanks for the example!

[Beautiful sky]

As opposed to, say, Fi polr?

Fe polr looks like ISTp and INTp; in the case of ISTp, do not like to demonstrate their feelings and are unsure about other's real emotions when people display their emotions.

[MatthewZ]

How about an example of Fe PoLR: Having to attend a gathering where the center piece (speaker or say a video) exudes an effect where people are being moved to tears around me. Fe PoLR in me makes me want to crawl into a deep and dark hole. I also fight tooth and nail with myself to not be emotionally affected.

I experienced this recently due to religious gathering reasons on several occasions. It's not that I disrespect the emotional people, but it weirds me out, quite frankly. I have no problem being emotionally affected when I am alone in the privacy of my own home.

Let me put it this way: the everyone-around-me-is-really-sad-or-really-happy thing makes me feel like the floor was pulled under me or gravity disappeared and I cannot figure out how to function so survival mode kicks in where I frantically in my mind figure out how to escape this atmosphere in the most non-attention-garnering way possible where I can look emotionally unaffected and emotionally inanimate in this situation without sticking out like a sore thumb.

I can be semi-expressive with friends, but this is totally different. It instantly triggers a recoil response. It's like the gag reflex, as a physical instant response to something your body rejects, in psychological and soiconics terms. That's the best analogy I can think of.

So this is one instance of what it 'looks like' as it happens internally because Fe PoLR and looks like is kind of an oxymoron, on some level.

Isn't that how anyone feels when they don't have a connection to the group emotion?

[redbaron]

I have a TEXTBOOK ILI friend who is very similar to you, aixelsyd (in order to type your name the right way I actually have to type "dyslexia" first and THEN type all the letters backwards from there, otherwise it's just too hard, lol). for the longest time, I couldn't tell what he thought of me. We would interact and he was very stony-faced with only the rare grin. And just so cute! But *total* Fe polr. He married an SEE and they're very happy together.

[Lobo]

But as far as my response, I don't think everyone puts such a fight to appear emotionally unaffected by things. Not to the degree Fe PoLR types do. Again, back to the gag reflex. That's what it feels like, psychologically. It feels almost unbearable. That is not something most people go through just because they are in a emotional climate which they do not relate to. And even if I do relate, it doesn't change my desire to be as unaffected outwardly as possible. No obvious smiling unless talking one on one with someone, no crying in public, no obvious laughter in public (unless with the right companions), etc. This is the weight of Fe PoLR on me, among many other things. Anger and aggression is the only acceptable emotion to express, for me, in such settings, unless it draws too much attention.

The Fe polr provides a lot of emotional strength and these types seem like the rock during rough emotional times. However, there is such a thing as being "too good" that will actually interfere in the inner desire to connect with other people. There have been times where I feel intimidated by these types, especially when I can't seem to control my emotions as well as they do, and it seems superhuman just how well they can be unaffected by things that to me are really intense, to the point that they seem too good for me. I know one who tells me that he can't cry, even if he wanted to, no tears come out... I've wondered if it's an inner desire for Fe polrs to be able to let themselves go and be comfortable in expressing their emotions outwardly, and get passed the uncomfortable aspect of doing so. It must feel incredibly liberating... I have a friend who at some point had a sort of emotional outburst towards me concerning the project we were working on, and then later on sent me an e-mail to apologize, when I didn't take it personally because I knew that he was just being emotional. For some reason this is one of the worst feelings in the world for Fe polrs.

[Mediator Kam]

This thread has made me confirm Fe ego for myself. I can't imagine even thinking of half the things that are being written here. I don't want to be mean or out of line, but I actually had to restrain myself about six times to not make a snarky comment.

[silverchris9]

This thread has made me confirm Fe ego for myself. I can't imagine even thinking of half the things that are being written here. I don't want to be mean or out of line, but I actually had to restrain myself about six times to not make a snarky comment.

lol. I'm sure Te-polr looks stupid to Te-valuers. Shrug.

[Mediator Kam]

lol. I'm sure Te-polr looks stupid to Te-valuers. Shrug.

I think we are talking about two entirely different feelings here. Fe ego people would find Fe PoLR behavior offensive at times. Te ego would not think of a Te PoLR's behavior as offensive. Inept and worthless possibly, but not something worthy of offense. Am I wrong here?

In the overall sense of things, it does not matter and is not the point of the thread at all, but just an idea I had.

[jughead]

yes they see us as inept and worthless.
Show some examples of ILI's and SLI's offending people.

[Mediator Kam]

yes they see us as inept and worthless.
Show some examples of ILI's and SLI's offending people.

I think aixelsyd hit at what I meant. When she writes that she refuses all expression except anger, I would not go out and use the loaded word of offend, but something very deep inside is hurt. Anger is a hurtful emotion. If anything, it should be the one expression that should not be shown.

The blatant rejection of enjoyment is something that is intolerable to me. It is like "You should not be allowed to reject enjoyment, smiling, laughing, etc." It's how to cope with the harsh world. That is what would be "offensive" to me, the unequivocal rejection of all that is good in the world. I am speaking in very broad and bold terms now, and that should be curtailed, but my passion leads me to it.

[Blaze]

lol. I'm sure Te-polr looks stupid to Te-valuers. Shrug.

all polr's look stupid to everybody. the polr does not perceive enough information about the indicated information element, so people make stupid mistakes due to this lack of information. all can see these stupid mistakes, even those people who find themselves making similar kinds of stupid mistakes.

what is missing in this thread is what Fe polr is missing. the thread tells me how people with Fe polr think about Fe and emotional expression....but not what they fail to see and understand about Fe.

with Fi polr you don't see attractions and repulsions. the person either doesn't get what nefarious plans others have or they think that the all plans of others are nefarious. they think everybody is equal and that everybody plays by the "rules" whatever the rules are, for relationships or they think that you are either on top or on the bottom in the relationship. either way, Fi polr comes across as rather rigid and clumsy to people who are more skilled in the Fi area. when the person acts out Fi polr, this lack of comprehension is pretty obvious to everybody.

i would guesstimate that with Fe polr the person is actually intimidated by dynamic emotional expression. they could think that the emotional mood will carry people forward in ill conceived plans, plans that don't take into account the actual given facts of a situation. since the person can't influence with Fe, they don't feel in control of it or that they can master it. when Fe starts to predominate, the situation has gone out of hand, and they have lost influence. since they can't flexibly manage intense emotions in themselves, they just try to keep them under wraps. if they can't handle their own emotions flexibly, then they definitely can't handle the emotions of others. the person doesn't really understand emotions, how they feel, how they can lift or depress others, or how they can motivate othes toward action, how emotions change.